hard time of year

[ktgrok]

When everyone is talking about their kids getting into college, etc and your super bright but challenged son just failed all his senior year classes and has no prospects. 

I adore him, and I know he's a great person, and he will find his way. 

But selfishly, the sucks. And I'm sure it sucks for him too. 

[kbutton]

I have a kiddo with very similar challenges who will be in 9th grade next year. I so hear you on this!

Honestly, unless I could travel forward in time and be sure he's actually going to college and do well, I really wish I could just put him in the 70% hands-on automotive college he wants to go to with his current academic tutor for support, lol! I'd probably save the state a ton of money by consolidating things that way, and I don't think he'd mentally check out.

These kids are hard to figure out! 

[Heathermomster]

I think you’re very brave for being so open and honest about the challenges with your son.

[Lecka]

It has been a hard time of year for me, too.  My twins are finishing up 3rd grade and it seems the gap is widening as my daughter is doing well and ready to move up to a more mature level, while my son is doing so well but just not in the same place at all.  

I can talk myself out of it, but there is a part of me that finds it so unfair.  

[PeterPan]

It's hard to hit like on your post, sigh, because it's not something anyone likes. :( Does your area have transition services for people with disabilities? I have friends talking about moving to Florida with dc with disabilities, and I feel just horrified for them. Where we are, we have significant offerings, both through governmental programs and private programs. I've sort of accepted for myself that under-employment will be very probable for my ds, and I've decided to be happily surprised if it goes any other way. The county lady will say things like oh, he may surprise you, blah blah, and I just, I don't know. These stories seem pretty common. :(

[PeterPan]

5 hours ago, kbutton said:

I have a kiddo with very similar challenges who will be in 9th grade next year. I so hear you on this!

Honestly, unless I could travel forward in time and be sure he's actually going to college and do well, I really wish I could just put him in the 70% hands-on automotive college he wants to go to with his current academic tutor for support, lol! I'd probably save the state a ton of money by consolidating things that way, and I don't think he'd mentally check out.

These kids are hard to figure out! 

When does that have to be decided? It seems like a very good thing if he's engaged. He could always go to college later if he wanted. I tell this story, but I have two cousins (brothers), one with a degree in engineering from an excellent university who makes astonishingly good money and the other, same IQ, same amazing level of talent and gifts, who pours it into engines and lives a quiet life with the fastest boat on the lake. Sometimes it's not what you *can* do so much as what you *want* to do and how you want to live. 

What does a college degree do for him if it doesn't get him the life he wants? If I had to work a job, I'd go to Chick fil A. I'm not dumb, but I just don't happen to be conducive to a normal job. I might be able to be a college professor. Other than that, I wouldn't really stick with anything or care. People have to live the lives they want to live. I think we give our children the gift of flexibility to figure out what that really looks like.

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

When does that have to be decided? It seems like a very good thing if he's engaged. He could always go to college later if he wanted. I tell this story, but I have two cousins (brothers), one with a degree in engineering from an excellent university who makes astonishingly good money and the other, same IQ, same amazing level of talent and gifts, who pours it into engines and lives a quiet life with the fastest boat on the lake. Sometimes it's not what you *can* do so much as what you *want* to do and how you want to live. 

What does a college degree do for him if it doesn't get him the life he wants? If I had to work a job, I'd go to Chick fil A. I'm not dumb, but I just don't happen to be conducive to a normal job. I might be able to be a college professor. Other than that, I wouldn't really stick with anything or care. People have to live the lives they want to live. I think we give our children the gift of flexibility to figure out what that really looks like.

It's the "keeping options open" right now that's killing me--pushing him through stuff that he might never use. I think he'd do excellent just skipping high school and doing the 70% hands-on program. :-) 

[Rosie_0801]

1 minute ago, kbutton said:

It's the "keeping options open" right now that's killing me--pushing him through stuff that he might never use. I think he'd do excellent just skipping high school and doing the 70% hands-on program. ?

 

Why not do that? At present, my dd wants to quit school at the end of year 10 and do a trade. She can always go to uni later as mature entry later if she wants to. 

[kbutton]

6 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Why not do that? At present, my dd wants to quit school at the end of year 10 and do a trade. She can always go to uni later as mature entry later if she wants to. 

I doubt they take kids his age, though I have been meaning to check into any dual enrollment options they might have. I gather from some Australian and Canadian friends that going to college later as a mature student is much easier there than here, but I do actually think that could be a super good fit for him to do that.

[Noreen Claire]

:hugs: I've been there. It sucks. DS22 barely squeaked out of high school; college was never even discussed. I hated how jealous I felt reading about friends and family bragging about their kids graduating with honors or getting accepted to colleges.

 

[PeterPan]

38 minutes ago, kbutton said:

It's the "keeping options open" right now that's killing me--pushing him through stuff that he might never use. I think he'd do excellent just skipping high school and doing the 70% hands-on program. :-) 

 

29 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

Why not do that? At present, my dd wants to quit school at the end of year 10 and do a trade. She can always go to uni later as mature entry later if she wants to. 

I'm with Rosie? Why keep options open? His IQ is crazy high. If he wants those options later, he could make them happen later. By not pursuing the trade school, you're shutting that door. When is the best time to go in? Trades are BIG around here. We have friends whose special (super bright btw) ds went trades I think partway into 9th. It was AMAZING for him. He was a leader and excelled, and it validated him and made him blossom on ways they didn't anticipate. It was affirming, boosted his confidence, and frankly he's making some serious money as an 18/19 yo. 

[Rosie_0801]

54 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

 

I'm with Rosie? Why keep options open? His IQ is crazy high. If he wants those options later, he could make them happen later. By not pursuing the trade school, you're shutting that door. When is the best time to go in? Trades are BIG around here. We have friends whose special (super bright btw) ds went trades I think partway into 9th. It was AMAZING for him. He was a leader and excelled, and it validated him and made him blossom on ways they didn't anticipate. It was affirming, boosted his confidence, and frankly he's making some serious money as an 18/19 yo. 

 

Which can be put away to pay for further education if that turns out to be the next good plan.

I dunno. Sometimes we can't see far enough into the future, so all we can do is the most productive thing we can do right now, then trust a next thing will manifest.

 

[PeterPan]

Yeah, unfortunately, there's already a track record known that getting a degree does NOT protect our kids with autism. They can get degrees and be utterly unemployable. Statistically, they're part of a population that is like 80% under-employed. College, and all the efforts and money to get them through, may not ensure they can hold a job, earn a living wage, etc. Michelle Garcia Winner talks about this quite a bit in her Social Thinking workshops. Like every single time. I think she must have seen it happen a lot. :(

 

[TrixieB]

Ktgrok, I'm sorry and I totally understand.

My dc is a junior, failing almost all classes and on the verge of dropping out. 

[Targhee]

Hugs, mama. And hugs to your DS.  ?

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, TrixieB said:

Ktgrok, I'm sorry and I totally understand.

My dc is a junior, failing almost all classes and on the verge of dropping out. 

I'm sorry, sigh. Is this college or high school? Any advice to us?

[TrixieB]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I'm sorry, sigh. Is this college or high school? Any advice to us?

High school.  I am trying to stay calm and reasonable but it's hard.

[ktgrok]

17 hours ago, kbutton said:

It's the "keeping options open" right now that's killing me--pushing him through stuff that he might never use. I think he'd do excellent just skipping high school and doing the 70% hands-on program. ?

I can say that I one hundred percent wish I'd done this. He got NOTHING out of the last year at least, and not much the year before if anything. I would have graduated him at 16 if I'd been smart. 

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, TrixieB said:

Ktgrok, I'm sorry and I totally understand.

My dc is a junior, failing almost all classes and on the verge of dropping out. 

Hugs. (also, I love your name! Trixie Belden is my favorite book character ever)

In retrospec I wish I'd either

1. gotten all up in his business and helped WAY more and broken down projects with him and been all over his butt.

or

2. Just graduated him at 16. 

I'm not sure I COULD have done option 1 without it killing us, honestly. 

[kbutton]

On 5/1/2018 at 10:42 PM, PeterPan said:

 

I'm with Rosie? Why keep options open? His IQ is crazy high. If he wants those options later, he could make them happen later. By not pursuing the trade school, you're shutting that door. When is the best time to go in? 

2

This is a trade school inside a college, and it's a couple of hours away. It's not the high-school level career center. I just wish I could somehow do it instead of high school if we think he's going that route since it's 70% hands-on, and they take only 2 or so classes every six weeks. All of those things jive with the way he works well.

We can start another thread if you want to.

[kbutton]

17 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I can say that I one hundred percent wish I'd done this. He got NOTHING out of the last year at least, and not much the year before if anything. I would have graduated him at 16 if I'd been smart. 

It's about two hours away, and I don't know that they'd take him at 14 (his age in the fall). It's not a career center or high school program. 

[PeterPan]

18 minutes ago, kbutton said:

This is a trade school inside a college, and it's a couple of hours away. It's not the high-school level career center. I just wish I could somehow do it instead of high school if we think he's going that route since it's 70% hands-on, and they take only 2 or so classes every six weeks. All of those things jive with the way he works well.

We can start another thread if you want to.

Not to rattle your boat too much, but how do you want him to go there when he eventually does? You want him to live there in a few years and do the program? Or you want to move? It seems like 14 is too young for him to be in a trade program in a college right now, but in 3-4 years it might really be a legit thing. So then what would be the plan? I thought you were looking at a vocational school that gives them a diploma as well. We have those around here. No, he shouldn't miss his high school diploma process (homeschool, whatever) to go to a cc trade school early. You never know when that diploma will be important. 

I'm surprised there's not a vocational school near you that would have a high school program. We have a HUGE vocational school here and our friends who live very rurally were able to find one too. Our friend's boy did that for high school, graduated with his diploma AND enough skills to be hireable, and he immediately went into a living wage job with benefits. 

[Dmmetler]

(((Hugs))). I hear you. My BK19 (global LD, ADHD, Anxiety, unexplained hemiplegic weakness and muscle spasms) ended up taking an incomplete in all of her college classes this semester. I have no clue if she’ll go back in the fall or not.  Her summer job is on hold because her physical symptoms won’t let her do it-and with no clear cause, she doesn’t know if she’ll ever be able to go back. 

 

It totally sucks for her-especially when DD13 is getting actively recruited by 4 year schools and invitations to join honor societies. She hasn’t complained about it, but my heart hurts-because honestly, BK works a LOT harder than DD does. 

 

[kbutton]

7 hours ago, PeterPan said:

I thought you were looking at a vocational school that gives them a diploma as well. We have those around here. No, he shouldn't miss his high school diploma process (homeschool, whatever) to go to a cc trade school early. You never know when that diploma will be important. 

I'm surprised there's not a vocational school near you that would have a high school program. We have a HUGE vocational school here and our friends who live very rurally were able to find one too. Our friend's boy did that for high school, graduated with his diploma AND enough skills to be hireable, and he immediately went into a living wage job with benefits. 

 

The have vocational programs here that issue diplomas, but they are also college prep at the same time. They have to do lit analysis and all the regular stuff. He DOES NOT EVER want to go to regular school again.

What we plan on is having him do just the automotive classes (that's an option), but even in those classes, he likely has to do writing, etc., and we would be using FAPE, so bye-bye tutoring. Then, we'd still have to cover everything at home without any support. In a BEST CASE scenario, a full, customized load of classes (like more than four subjects at a time) will crush him and his soul, suck all of his time, and make him go in unproductive circles. On top of that, the automotive program is more like "finish school and work for Tire Discounters" (according to parents whose kids have taken these classes) or "have something to fall back on while you plan for college." The automotive college is just totally different. Top notch in the country and 70% hands-on. Something like two subjects at a time in 6-week increments. You can leave for a session and just walk back in at a different 6-week time. They even run the classes in shifts during those 6 weeks! Writing there is like, "compare and contrast these two types of cars." While that would be a struggle for my son at this point, it's far less than he would be expected to do at the vocational school that preps him for college and Tire Discounters simultaneously. They don't care about ACT, SAT, etc. from what I can see, though I asked them to send me materials so that I can browse more effectively and plan better.

Who wouldn't want to leap over a stupid high school option that asks him to do what he sucks at in an ideal world? Hands-on is not a problem for my son. 

My longing for this option to be a replacement for high school is a longing. I know it's not real.

[PeterPan]

And it might be that some of his writing challenges will improve when he's writing in his area of special interest. He'll have more to say and have pre-thought it more in his mind. I had someone tell me that, that their (on the spectrum) dc seemed to need a lot of pre-thought to get writing out.

It sounds like you are pretty sure the later program is a good fit. Is it highly competitive? What does he really need to get in? Is there something that helps him more, like work experience or academics or??

[kbutton]

When he has more to say, it gets harder, not easier! And a huge part of the problem is that he has trouble making generalized statements of any kind, which hampers things considerably. It makes the organization flat and without transitions. But he has a great ear for language, so individual sentences are often fantastic. 

He does need more pre-thought. It's like he has to do 16 steps for every one step someone else does. If he combines steps, he messes up, and he introduces errors in things that had "seemed" learned. It's just a mess.

The later program just really seems up his alley. We plan to visit. It doesn't seem to be highly competitive or hard to get into, but I won't know for sure until we get their information. We have a friend whose son is there right now doing diesel mechanics and thriving. She thinks DS would take to the program even more readily. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

When he has more to say, it gets harder, not easier! And a huge part of the problem is that he has trouble making generalized statements of any kind, which hampers things considerably. It makes the organization flat and without transitions. But he has a great ear for language, so individual sentences are often fantastic. 

I've been trying to learn about the Story Grammar Marker system, because an SLP suggested it for ds, and I found a blog where someone says something similar http://whitneyslp.blogspot.com/2012/08/story-grammar-marker-and-writing.html  She describes having autism students who could do all the pieces of the SGM steps but couldn't actually pull it together into a whole. It reminded me of what they had cautioned us about with ds' speech years ago, that it was possible to work on isolated sounds and only have sounds, never having them pull together into actual SPEECH. It made me wonder if that's a thing too with narrative language, where we (the SLPs) could analyze parts and not actually get it into use. I don't know. It also strikes me that the earliest levels (Braidy and SGM) are focused on fictional narratives and they only teach expository LATER, while expository writing or narratives would much likely be much more interesting or natural to my ds. 

I don't know, just thinking out loud there. I don't know what causes it, but what you're describing makes sense.

That tech program sounds really promising!

[1shortmomto4]

I have had those feelings quite a few times over the years.  I never thought my oldest, severely hearing impaired and a whole host of other issues, would never make it through CC but after a whole lot of work, tears, a dead-end job, he is finishing up a degree at a university - and not always doing great at the schoolwork part but finally achieving success socially - I wish it could be both.

I'm currently struggling with another DS who is severely dyslexic and no matter what I've tried with this student I've been unsuccessful in getting him to write just a paragraph - a paragraph!  He is supposedly writing a story and has written quite a few pages but I've not seen it.  How do you transfer that to the entrance exam at the local CC.  He can't pass the entrance exams in English (I'm thinking he'll be okay for math) because he can't write an essay.  Sadly, I've decided to hold off graduation until December and try one more semester - although it could be a whole year because it just may take that long.  The biggest fear I have is what if he doesn't achieve writing success and still can't pass the placement test?  He wants to go in the military but would prefer to become an officer - a big part of me just wants to prep him like crazy for the ASVAB and go enlisted -- but I'm pretty sure that option will still be there in a year if this next year doesn't work out.  He had been working on getting his learners permit by doing the online book portion - failed the first test and won't go back to try it again.  And the biggest challenge - after 3 weeks of searching I'm still unable to find a provider to formally test him so that I have the documentation he needs for the accommodations he needs to try to succeed in college.  His only passion in life is soldiering.

And yet, you can look around and see all the kids being accepted to colleges, graduating colleges, etc. and it sure can be tempting to get discouraged.  (((hugs)))