Basic dysgraphia help

[4KookieKids]

I suspect that two of my kids have dysgraphia (the almost 9 and 5 year olds). I also suspect that 9 is at a point where he just needs OT and that 5 is too young to know for sure. In either case, I'm really burnt out on running all over kingdom come for appointments, and am not ready/willing to pursue formal eval(s) or therapy at this point, so "knowing" it's dysgraphia is less important to me than actually just finding out some ways to help them.

Up until now, I've tried to help the older one just by building up his writing muscles by having him write more and more each day (usually copy work, so he can focus on the mechanics alone). He knows proper formation, and can write very nicely (albeit slowly and very painstakingly) when it's only 5ish words at a time and I'm reminding him the whole time to start at the two o'clock, line letters start close, etc. Otherwise, his handwriting is atrocious and he complains all the time that it's hard and hurts. Correct posture is difficult for him to maintain, no matter that I insist on it every. single. time. Pencil hold is correct.

The younger one is young, I know, but writes about as well as my 2 yo, despite finishing up an entire year of preschool where the teacher was very focused on proper letter formation and writing practice (only 10 min/day, but very good instruction during that time I know). She can't even write her own name legibly yet, after practicing it at least five times per week, every week, since last August, as well as lots of extra practicing at home when she was drawing pictures and wanted to label her pictures with her name each time. :) 

What are some basic strategies that I might be able to use to help them? Honestly, I'd just rather deal with this at home, if at all possible, but I'll pursue outside help if need be once things settle down and I get my bearings this summer.

[PeterPan]

It sounds like your older ds has a weak core, possibly a weak shoulder, and should be screened for retained reflexes. 

[geodob]

You asked for some basic strategies?

One helpful exercise, involves 'touching finger to thumb'. Going from one finger to next, back and forth.

You wrote that  his hand hurts from writing. What causes this?  Is that all muscles work in teams, and have an opposing muscle. When one muscle contracts, its opposite needs to extend, in precise unison.  Though if the opposing muscle doesn't extend in unison?  Then the contracting muscle, can force its opposite extend.  By stretching it, which results in pain.

But that 'finger to thumb' exercise, can help develop coordination between opposing muscles.   Another exercise, just involves.  Extending the fingers, and then making circular movements with them.  

[Heathermomster]

For upper body and core strengthening, daily wheelbarrow walking and stability ball pushups are very good. 

You need to make an OT appointment now.  Wait time can be 6 weeks or longer depending on the provider.

 

 

[4KookieKids]

Ok. Thanks, all. I should've been more clear that it's not just hand pain. It's arm and shoulder pain, too, but only when writing for a long time. I've done everything I know how to do with the older child, and it's all been to no avail. I'm hoping to get something figured out with the younger child before it gets too awfully bad. Bad writing in a 5 year old can be forgiven. But when you're going on 9 and almost nothing you write can be deciphered and you don't have the stamina for more than a sentence or two, I feel like it's pretty bad... lol. 

FWIW, we're in at a place that does OT, and are on the list to start this summer when spots open up (they said that folks usually stop coming a lot in summer). Two of my kids are on that waiting list, though not the 5 yo mentioned above (the almost 9 yo and another one of my kiddos), and I think the OT will be great for them when they start. By then, we'll have finished some other regular appointments, though, which is nice. 

[PeterPan]

The shoulder pain is because his core is weak. What Heather is telling you is the correct stuff to do, and you might as well start now.

 

[Rosie_0801]

It seems counter-intuitive, but my dd was much better with joined cursive than individual letters.

And I agree with building the core muscles and dealing with the retained reflexes.

[4KookieKids]

17 hours ago, Heathermomster said:

For upper body and core strengthening, daily wheelbarrow walking and stability ball pushups are very good. 

 

 Somehow, I missed this part of the post the first time I read it. It’s kind of interesting, because my husband and I were just discussing last night that we should start working on his core again, in preparation for swimming this summer, because his core really held him back from making the progress that he wanted to make in years past. And targeted work with an OT helped  fix the issue one year, but then his OT said that he didn’t need to come anymore for a while, and I’m guessing his core is probably week again. But that would make sense if it also accounted for his struggles to write  since those have been ongoing his entire life. 

 

Could you please explain to me exactly how course strength affects writing? I can imagine it, since it seems that course strength affects pretty much everything, but I’m curious about the details.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, 4KookieKids said:

 

 Somehow, I missed this part of the post the first time I read it. It’s kind of interesting, because my husband and I were just discussing last night that we should start working on his core again, in preparation for swimming this summer, because his core really held him back from making the progress that he wanted to make in years past. And targeted work with an OT helped  fix the issue one year, but then his OT said that he didn’t need to come anymore for a while, and I’m guessing his core is probably week again. But that would make sense if it also accounted for his struggles to write  since those have been ongoing his entire life. 

 

Could you please explain to me exactly how course strength affects writing? I can imagine it, since it seems that course strength affects pretty much everything, but I’m curious about the details.

There is the theory that when you have retained reflexes (primitive/neonatal reflexes not integrated into the neurological system and hence still expressing) that it glitches the developmental system and that further things in the neurological process don't develop correctly. So then the vestibular and vision reflexes don't develop properly, etc. I was told that people losing their tone after they get it can be because of this. They work hard, get xyz toned up, drop the exercise, and the low tone returns. So the root issue there can be retained reflexes. Now it's more complex than that, because you can have underlying mitochondrial disorders, blah blah. But that's why people were saying check for retained reflexes, because it's the whole sequence and the need to get to the root. Many OTs are NOT trained in retained reflexes, and beats me why. It's shameful. They take sometimes $100+ an hour and they aren't even trained in the most obvious things. I could rant. The system training them is a MESS. Odds are you've never even been to an OT trained in them. I've been to so many OTs I've lost count, probably at least 6-8, at least. Seriously. How many have actually checked for retained reflexes?? *1* only one. It's that bad. I ended up going to a PT. You can find videos. I've got another site I'm snooping on that seemed to have some free info. https://ilslearningcorner.com/blog/2016/01/27/2016-01-primitive-reflexes-the-answer-behind-w-sitting-and-how-to-fix-it/  Pyramid of Potential has stuff. There's stuff on youtube. 

Core to shoulder to arm to wrist to hand. So with my dd, her core was weak so she leaned on her arm. So then you get pain because you're leaning on the wrong thing. I'm getting fuzzy on it, but I *think* you're supposed to move the whole arm in slight motions, and instead, if the core is weak and they're leaning on the arm for support, they might move their wrist. So the child is saying xyz hurts, and it's because they don't have the strength to support and line it up properly. It's a whole progression, and it's just subtle enough that as a mom you might not realize what you're seeing even as you see it.

[PeterPan]

Btw, just as a total aside, my ds is diagnosed with SLD writing. My dd, who had the OT issues with writing, was *not* diagnosed with SLD writing. Sorta funky, but they can actually be separate things. My ds' ability to get things out with writing is very, very minimal and arduous at age 9. They were like well maybe he can't spell. It's just that hard. He can form single letters nicely in isolation. The OT has been going at it with coding, visual motor integration, drawing, trying to help his brain be able to get out ANYTHING with any type of writing instrument. They diagnosed and have doubled down confirmation on SLD writing.

My dd, to contrast, would start off ok and fade off because of pain and fatigue. She has your usual very low processing speed, issues with distraction, issues with organization. So for her, getting it out is like Jesus and the great drops of blood, but with enough time and space she can. 

So I don't know, all the labels mystify me, lol. Sometimes I don't know what they're looking for and it doesn't seem very consistent. They may be piling a bunch of things together. I'm just saying it can be really hard and not have it be labeled SLD Writing. Just depends on what's going on. 

If he's low tone, there are also some nutritional things you can pursue. I give my ds and myself coconut milk. My dd won't drink it, and her tone is the lowest of all of us. There's discussion of carnitine. So it's just more ways to look. I haven't really dug in on the genetics for that. I was kinda busy with the methylation stuff, lol. But yeah, maybe there are some brilliant answers there too, come to think of it. There ought to be. 

The nice thing is that if it's that physical side, getting him over to dictation software and typing should help IMMENSELY. I would be doing that pronto. How old is the dc? I started using dictation software with my ds at 6. Now remember, he wasn't intelligible 100%, so it was more like getting him used to the idea that this is normal, any way we can get it on screen is valid. We're slowly working on typing, but it's unbelievably arduous. My dd really took a long time for typing to become functional. We worked on it on and off, and because (I think) of the midline and movements necessary it wasn't going well. In around 7th gr I moved her over to an alternate keyboard layout (Dvorak) and paid her heftily to motivate. Gave her an email account, her own computer login set only to Dvorak, blah blah. She got functional. 

All your tech has dictation now, so even a $60 kindle can do dictation into a word processor app. It's good to work on handwriting, but it's also good to be functional, to say the point was communication. So dictation, typing, it's all good. 

[Heathermomster]

On 4/29/2018 at 6:39 AM, 4KookieKids said:

 

 Somehow, I missed this part of the post the first time I read it. It’s kind of interesting, because my husband and I were just discussing last night that we should start working on his core again, in preparation for swimming this summer, because his core really held him back from making the progress that he wanted to make in years past. And targeted work with an OT helped  fix the issue one year, but then his OT said that he didn’t need to come anymore for a while, and I’m guessing his core is probably week again. But that would make sense if it also accounted for his struggles to write  since those have been ongoing his entire life. 

 

Could you please explain to me exactly how course strength affects writing? I can imagine it, since it seems that course strength affects pretty much everything, but I’m curious about the details.

I can’t properly answer that question because I’m not an OT.   My eldest child is diagnosed dygraphia, and my youngest child is 50/50 with low tone.

Trunk/core strength provides stability so that the student can balance themselves properly as they sit and write.  The exercises that I mentioned were used to improve my daughter’s posture and pincer/core strength thereby reducing hand and arm fatigue.  They are simple to do, and you can incorporate them right away.   

And let me add, my son is still dysgraphic.  No amount of exercise and therapy in this world will take the dysgraphia away.  He types most everything except math.  During the first six weeks of 10th grade, I insisted that he type all of this chemistry math problems because he lacked the attention to detail that is necessary with scientific units.  DS was tested two weeks ago for college accommodations, and his handwriting is fluent.  His word choices and written expression are very high;however, son’s language processing issues and working memory make punctuation and spelling problematic.  My son must use technology to express himself.  By 5th grade, I opted for DS to be functional and taught him to type.  He started typing everything by sixth grade, and we use mapping software called Inspiration on the iPad. The iPad is amazing because the speech to text technology is easy to use.  I say all the above to point out that you’re going to have to start thinking in terms of functionality and providing academic independence to your children.  I’ve never had a lot of support from early grade teachers with regards to technology, and I made the decision early on to provide all the writing accommodations that my son would receive in college.  

Good luck and let us know how things work out!

Eta:  http://www.theottoolbox.com/2017/06/6-ways-core-strength-impacts-handwriting.html

 

 

 

[exercise_guru]

There are some very good threads if you search  this site with google with some very good ideas. 

 

There are atleast 4 different kinds of dysgraphia. I would start at trying to be a detective to find out what your child can do and what they can't Don't be alarmed but I usually see a comorbid condition with dysgraphia.  the following conditions have shown up in my research in trying to learn more about dysgraphia.  CAPD, ADD, ADHD, Spectrum issues, Retained reflexes, Vestibular system imbalance, Muscle coordination and core weakness, Vision convergence issues leading to vision therapy, limbic issues in the brain.

 

First try to figure out what is going on in a bigger picture with your older chile. Can your child write smooth fluid shapes and lines? How is the math part vs the collecting ones thoughts and writing part? how is the grip? With my son it was a wide range of issues and it did not have a simple solution. It took years for me to help get him to where he is now at 11 and we are still on the path to figure out how to get him to write an essay. 

Types of Dysgraphia

I have a son who has had dysgraphia challenges and is now 11. Let me share my experience maybe something will prove useful. Keep in mind though that my son had a comorbid condition regarding  auditory ear canal issues that delayed his phonetic and verbal development. After years of  Handwriting remediation he can do math easily and his work is legible following columns as he presents. He initially could not write in a straight line and his letters and numbers popcorned everywhere. Luckly he was a good reader and speller so the handwriting was caught before it affected his math,reading etc. It really affected social studies and writing because he hated to write and the teacher could not read his work. spelling was better because he could slowly write one word and understood and retained the visual aspect of it. 

Here is our story maybe someone will find it useful. 

When my son was in preschool the teachers were constantly telling me to have him practice with fine motor projects at home because his fine motor was lagging. Over the next 6 years we  did  all kinds of fine motor work. You can find many of these by looking up OT sites. If you homeschool it is best to just implement this as a 30 minute station daily. Some examples are Therapy dough and playdough. A game called Wok and Roll, mazes, dot to dot, eventually perler beads, a light up tracing tray. My best recommendation is get rid of the electronics and replace them with legos and crafts. My son didn't enjoy those activities and to be honest I think the electronics acted as a crutch for him to not pursue legos for hours. He would do the prescribe time and only that. 

Then in 1st grade his teachers were concerned because he could not draw a straight line. We pursued OT for over a year practacing upper body and core strength and handwriting without tears. This produced labored slow handwriting and he continually shifted his grip regardless of the number of times I corrected it. I consulted numerous OT and handwriting specialists regarding grip and fluid writing. At this point he was getting older and the handwriting reluctance was affecting his ability to express himself and do the needed school work. 

In 2nd grade we pursued vision Therapy and retained reflexes. Initially this did not improve his handwriting but after completing it I was able to fix his grip permanently. Over the past summer between 3rd and 4th We  were sick of  handwriting without tears and its labored ball and stick model. Instead we intensely pursued Getty and Dubay. I chose letters that were not fluid and worked to teach him to write with his shoulder and less with his finger motion. We worked on a white board hung on the wall and wrote large and then increasingly worked on fluidly moving across the board. We later bought a used drafting table for homework that I put my kids in a taller chair and had them write with the board at a slight angle. This helped with the grip and ability to move quickly accross the board. 

My son can now write legibly without fatigue and is doing much better in school. It still isn't his favorite but I think the ball is in motion and rolling. I allow my son to use dictation software on the IPAD for his rough drafts. This summer we will work on improving overall content of essays and maybe a Bravewrite course.  He has been taking typing and will definitely use typing in class. 

I can attach some links here of bookmarks I have saved over the years. 

Kate Gladstone She is a mine of information and worth consulting. She turned me onto the Getty and Dubay technique, shoulder writing, rotating the paper, writing on a board on the wall  or a glass door to improve shoulder strength, She taught me that a T does not go straight up and down but is slightly at an angle and far more natural. This helped my son so much. She consulted with me by phone since I am out west and while I didn't have her working directly with my son consulting her was life changing. 

Kathy Johnson Pyramid of Potential Retained Reflexes Here daily 35 dollar video is worth the money.  There is an excellent book on how to test and remediate retained reflexes but I am blanking on that right now. Perhaps another parent can help. My son had half of the reflexes and improving them with a 30 minute a day yoga type exercies routine helped significantly. 

Here are some other links 

strategies to improve handwriting

Primitive Reflexes

Smart Kids who hate to write by Dianne Craft

Getty and Dubay: This is the most fluid and easy to write print and cursive I have found. The cursive only changes two letters and puts legibility in front of curvy cute stuff. 

Caligraphy paper that helps teach to write at a slant rather than straight up and down much more natural

This is a great post by a teacher in junior high trying to help her students who were slow writers.

If you homeschool or just in general I highly highly recomend the new IPAD with the pencil. My daughter uses an IPAD pro in college and finds it indispensable.  I bought an IPAD in december before the new one came out and have struggled to find a good stylus to work with it. I might trade mine in for a new one. My son uses the dictation software but I really really like the Myscript stylus app and some of the voice recorder apps. there are a lot of powerful learning tools on the apple store that I finally had to cave in so we could use them for my son.  

One last thing. Kate Gladstone recomended these mechanical pencils Paper Mate 1862168 Mates 1.3mm Mechanical Pencils She said even switching to these, rotating the paper and using the helper hand would improve my sons handwriting immediately over what he was doing. She was right. I have bought packs and packs of them because the dumb eraser falls out but it is exclusively what what my son has used in school for the last two years and saved us hours and hours of frustration. I provide the pencils and it is in my sons 504 plan. They don't roll, they don't break and he brings them home for me to refill them. If only the stupid eraser would stay in. I am contacting papermate to see if I can just buy the erasers we have so many of the pencil bodies since they are refillable but they really have been a life saver. 

 

[Ausmumof3]

On 4/29/2018 at 11:23 AM, Rosie_0801 said:

It seems counter-intuitive, but my dd was much better with joined cursive than individual letters.

And I agree with building the core muscles and dealing with the retained reflexes.

I can see why this would be logical though.  Stop start motion is harder on the body so if the muscles are weak it would make sense that the constant stop and lift of normal letters could cause issues that are avoided by the flow of cursive.  

Sorry I know this post is old just stumbled across it and found this interesting.

[4KookieKids]

Thank you all! I've been reading and thinking and reading some more, so I really appreciate your input!