WWYD How to address this issue at the public high school?

[ashfern]

My 15 yo is at the public high school this year. She's having a new issue at lunch. About a week ago, some of the boys downloaded an app that plays this very annoying tone. She has asked them to stop playing it and they refused. She talked to the lunch monitor/teacher in charge. Unfortunately, it's one of those sounds that only young people can hear so they won't do anything about it. The problem is that it's giving her a headache. What is the next step/what would you do?

[Bootsie]

Can't she move to another place in the lunchroom to eat?  

[Targhee]

I didn’t know there were sounds only young people can hear 

Why do people take delight in annoying other people? Sorry! Are they trying to annoy her in specific? Is she permitted headphones to listen to music? Can she move seats? Or eat in a classroom? Does she know the kids doing it and possibly engage them in friendly/unrelated conversation?

[Storygirl]

If it is not violating school policy, and if the adult lunch monitor does not view it as a problem, I think she just needs to move to a different part of the lunch room. I realize this may be a hassle, if it requires asking her friends to move along with her, but if she can sit where she cannot hear the noise, that is the best solution.

[Spy Car]

7 minutes ago, Targhee said:

I didn’t know there were sounds only young people can hear 

Why do people take delight in annoying other people? Sorry! Are they trying to annoy her in specific? Is she permitted headphones to listen to music? Can she move seats? Or eat in a classroom? Does she know the kids doing it and possibly engage them in friendly/unrelated conversation?

Most adults lose our ability to hear very high frequencies as we age.

Bill

 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Get her some good ear plugs.  You can get ones that block damaging high frequency sounds while allowing regular conversation sound to pass.

 

[regentrude]

50 minutes ago, Targhee said:

I didn’t know there were sounds only young people can hear 

Oh yes. In Britain, iIt is used in devices to prevent teens from loitering.

[Annie G]

If she knows the kids who are doing this, maybe she can speak to a school counselor or dean. Some of these apps have frequencies that cause a constant, painful sound and for some people it’s really torture. I’d pick up some earplugs to keep in her purse but really this kind of behavior is annoying. It’s weird that teens are using it on other teens, as I’ve mostly heard of it being used by adults to annoy teens. I know people who think it’s funny to play these sounds on youth group trips. Sheesh, people, you signed up to chaperone, did you think the kids weren’t going to be loud?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ear plugs or move.  Unfortunately, by asking them to stop, she may have encouraged them to do it more around her. 

[Scarlett]

I am surprised so many think there is nothing that can be done.  Sounds like that can be painful and mentally torturous.  I doubt we would tell an adult to put up with that nonsense at a workplace.  

I would probably call the school and advocate for my 15 year old.  She shouldn't have to endure that.

[Annie G]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

There are lots of things that are “mentally torturous” for adults that they have to put up with at work.  Second hand cigarette smoke often triggers DD22’s asthma, but she still has to encounter other people  who have just had a cigarette.  Smells, sounds, lights, temperatures, there are lots of workplaces that are full of aspects of those things that employees and/or co-workers must put up with. 

Sure, but none of the things you mentioned are done specifically to annoy another person.  These apps are specifically designed to irritate. 

I’m sympathetic to the girl because I have always been able to hear when an incandescent light bulb is about to blow out because I can hear the vibration of the filament. It can be super distracting.  

Asking the boys to quit playing the sound isn’t infringing on their rights. If they were playing music she doesn’t like I wouldn’t expect them to stop. But I can’t side with people who are intentionally trying to be mean. 

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

There are lots of things that are “mentally torturous” for adults that they have to put up with at work.  Second hand cigarette smoke often triggers DD22’s asthma, but she still has to encounter other people  who have just had a cigarette.  Smells, sounds, lights, temperatures, there are lots of workplaces that are full of aspects of those things that employees and/or co-workers must put up with. 

Oh man you have just given me a flashback to when people could smoke in the office!  What a nightmare that was.  I don't know how I tolerated it.  LOL....I guess I needed a paycheck pretty bad.

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

And now that I know the type of sound, I can imagine that it’s going to be hard to find a place in the lunch room that she can’t hear it, unless it’s a very large lunch room. That sort of sound seems to ride under (over) all other sound in a room.  

 

If it would be so hard to escape the sound in the lunch room, it seems as if there would be a number of other students annoyed by the sound.  If that is the case, I think there would be power in numbers trying to get the sound stopped.  

[Liza Q]

2 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ear plugs or move.  Unfortunately, by asking them to stop, she may have encouraged them to do it more around her. 

Yeah. Probably, the less reaction they get the sooner they will stop.

[Ravin]

She should take the issue above the lunch monitor's head since the lunch monitor isn't taking it seriously. If the admins won't take it seriously, it could be something to take up with student council, or to circulate a petition asking that the app/noise be banned from campus as it is unreasonably distracting and uncomfortable for some students. I would advise the OP's DD to start with going up the chain to whoever is in charge above the lunch monitor (a vice principal or something). It's likely to fall under bullying/harassment policies if nothing else.

 

[Storygirl]

I was just coming back to add another post to this thread, saying that I was sympathetic, because I am extremely sensitive to noise, though I'm not sure my initial post came off that way.

And then I read that it may be an actual annoying noise making app, whose sole purpose is to be irritating. I didn't realize that from the OP. I thought it was just a game that made an annoying noise.

In that case, I agree that the school should insist that the boys stop, and I as the parent would probably call the school office and not just expect my daughter to deal with it herself. It's going to be hard for the lunch monitor to make sure it stops, though, if he or she cannot hear it.

[Ali in OR]

I would escalate to higher authorities--in our school that would be one of the vice principals. Maybe first with some research on what the app is and what it does so it doesn't rely on first hand experience ("I don't hear anything"). This isn't that hard a problem to stop for someone with authority.

[katilac]

Earplugs. Earbuds playing music. Walk away.  

If it's a game and they're allowed to play games, obviously not everyone is going to agree on what's an irritating noise. 

It it's an annoying noise for no purpose, I'd still let it die a natural death. They'll move on eventually.

Those of you advocating for the student or her mom to pursue it up the chain of command must have gone to a kinder, gentler high school than I did. Making a big deal out of an annoying noise at lunch would not have been a smart move socially. And if your mom  made a big deal about it? You would not want to be that kid. I realize I went to high school in the stone ages, but I know a lot of teens and I think pursuing only big things is still a sound policy. 

Also, I'd be slap-happy if that was the most annoying thing I had to put up with at work.

[katilac]

59 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

I would escalate to higher authorities--in our school that would be one of the vice principals. Maybe first with some research on what the app is and what it does so it doesn't rely on first hand experience ("I don't hear anything"). This isn't that hard a problem to stop for someone with authority.

 

I think it actually would be rather hard to stop. Kids are told to stop, they do it anyway and student reports it. Kids and all their friends deny it and say reporting student is trying to get them in trouble because *insert inane teen reason here*. 

[Carol in Cal.]

4 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

OK so I had to google because I hadn’t realized that there actually were sounds adults supposedly can’t hear. 

And I found a couple different places where they play the sound and I can hear it.  I can see why she is annoyed.  It’s super high pitched and it almost feels like I am hearing it “behind” my ears, if that makes sense.  Many electronics actually make these sorts of sounds.  We had a computer monitor doing something like that once, DH was like “I don’t hear anything.”  I didn’t believe him.  But it is almost like I “feel” the sound as much as I hear it.   Kind of like how you “feel” low bass sounds....but it feels opposite. 

 

This is exactly the way that those dog fences sound to me.  The ones you're not supposed to be able to hear, but unfortunately I can.

I think if I had a next door neighbor with one of these I would seriously have to move.

[sassenach]

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

Oh yes. In Britain, iIt is used in devices to prevent teens from loitering.

This cracks me up. Like an animal deterant for teens. 

[Ali in OR]

50 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

I think it actually would be rather hard to stop. Kids are told to stop, they do it anyway and student reports it. Kids and all their friends deny it and say reporting student is trying to get them in trouble because *insert inane teen reason here*. 

I love my dds' school. They have several amazing administrators including the principal and one particular vice principal. They're highly involved in the school, at every activity, know the kids by name, aren't jerks but have high expectations of the kids and know how to talk to kids to get them to step up and do better. I think they would be able to handle this situation with a conversation with the instigators.

[Tanaqui]

3 hours ago, sassenach said:

This cracks me up. Like an animal deterant for teens. 

 

Yeah, it's funny, but it's also ablist. Many neurodiverse individuals can *also* hear sounds in that register, long after adolescence, and we can't ignore them either.

[klmama]

Interesting.  The dc and I could hear both the neighbor's sonic mouse repellant machine and a similar but much louder  high-pitched sound at a food court while on vacation in Florida. Dh couldn't hear either and thought we were making it up.  The mouse machine was annoying if we got within 10 feet, but the food court sound was overwhelming for quite a distance.  OP, I would encourage your dd to try earbuds that can block out noise fairly well.  

[DawnM]

I don't know how large the high school is or how many go to lunch at the same time, but I am not understanding why she can't move to the other side of the room.  I can guarantee that would be the first thing our APs would tell the parents and the student in this situation.  

[Suzanne in ABQ]

We have an ultrasonic rodent deterrent device in the garage.  I can't hear it at all, but my kids sprint for the door to avoid hearing it.  

[KungFuPanda]

Those tones are the worst.  If the adults could hear it, they would definitely put a stop to it, so it sucks that it's a non-issue because she's a kid.  They make my son instantly angry because the sound goes right through him.  They're probably playing tones that nobody over 20 can hear just so the younger teachers don't catch on.  Maybe an equivalent sound blasted in a tone the adults could hear would get the point across?  Is she up for taking that kind of stand?

ETA:  OR she could take the high road and write an eloquent letter to the principle complete with sound clips explaining the situation.  Some kids set their text tones using these sounds so the adults won't hear them receiving texts in class.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Those tones are the worst.  If the adults could hear it, they would definitely put a stop to it, so it sucks that it's a non-issue because she's a kid.  They make my son instantly angry because the sound goes right through him.  They're probably playing tones that nobody over 20 can hear just so the younger teachers don't catch on.  Maybe an equivalent sound blasted in a tone the adults could hear would get the point across?  Is she up for taking that kind of stand?

ETA:  OR she could take the high road and write an eloquent letter to the principle complete with sound clips explaining the situation.  Some kids set their text tones using these sounds so the adults won't hear them receiving texts in class.

Yes, my son and I both are sensitive to sounds....I can't hear those tones fortunately....dh can! ugh.  Anyway, I do feel for her.  

[kiwik]

I sympathise.  Some noises make me want to punch someone or cry.  I would carry some sort of ear protection whatever else I did.  

[marbel]

15 hours ago, Eliana said:

...and ageist.   I find it dreadful that communities should set up measures designed to discourage the presence of a specific age group.  I look at the young people I know (and not just my own kids!) and I'm amazed at their engagement in community, their hard work, and how valuable their contributions to society are... not despite their youth, but often because of it.

You've never seen kids just hanging around, doing nothing, intimidating people who walk by?

There is a place in the little "downtown" area of the neighborhood next to mine where teens congregation to drink, smoke, and talk (loudly and using much vulgarity/profanity).  It is very uncomfortable to walk by them.  (And the next day, the merchants have to pick up all the trash they leave.)  This is a quiet suburban area, but close to the city; it's not like a tiny rural town with nothing to do.  A restaurant with outdoor seating closed because people didn't want to go there - the outside tables were useless because of the kids hanging around.

[mom31257]

Do they allow students to play music out loud forcing others to hear it? If not, then why are they allowing this?

The arguments about the workplace and for just moving and using ear buds don't make sense to me. These are not adults.  This is a school where the staff are required to look out for the welfare of these students.

Even in a workplace, what good manager is going to allow an employee to intentionally annoy other employees and cause them physical harm? 

[Ravin]

On 4/24/2018 at 6:36 PM, katilac said:

 

I think it actually would be rather hard to stop. Kids are told to stop, they do it anyway and student reports it. Kids and all their friends deny it and say reporting student is trying to get them in trouble because *insert inane teen reason here*. 

It's really quite simple. Accused teen is called to office and asked to present their phone. Asked to unlock it. Principal checks the sound files and apps for the problem noise. If child refuses to unlock phone, phone stays in the office until the end of the day. Note goes home to parents.

Kids should not be doing disturbing and disruptive things with their electronics at school, including at lunch. It's a good way to get phone privileges at lunch revoked for the whole school--which is another measure the staff could take.

[KungFuPanda]

Posted on wrong thread. 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Ravin said:

It's really quite simple. Accused teen is called to office and asked to present their phone. Asked to unlock it. Principal checks the sound files and apps for the problem noise. If child refuses to unlock phone, phone stays in the office until the end of the day. Note goes home to parents.

Kids should not be doing disturbing and disruptive things with their electronics at school, including at lunch. It's a good way to get phone privileges at lunch revoked for the whole school--which is another measure the staff could take.

 

 

I guess I just can't imagine the principal, or anyone in the office, taking the time to scroll through phones checking apps and listening to a hundred sound files because some kid doesn't like a noise. I get that it gives her a headache, but I still think the thing to do is walk away, use earplugs, wait for them to move on. It's not that I don't empathize - I carry earplugs in my purse at all times - but this is not something I'd encourage reporting. 

Even if the office is willing to police this, she is not going to do herself any favors by reporting it. Yes, the staff could indeed revoke phone privileges for the whole school, and that would not be a good thing for the kid who got the staff involved.

[Ravin]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 

 

I guess I just can't imagine the principal, or anyone in the office, taking the time to scroll through phones checking apps and listening to a hundred sound files because some kid doesn't like a noise. I get that it gives her a headache, but I still think the thing to do is walk away, use earplugs, wait for them to move on. It's not that I don't empathize - I carry earplugs in my purse at all times - but this is not something I'd encourage reporting. 

Even if the office is willing to police this, she is not going to do herself any favors by reporting it. Yes, the staff could indeed revoke phone privileges for the whole school, and that would not be a good thing for the kid who got the staff involved.

Fear of retaliation is not a reason to discourage reporting bullying/harassment, which is what this has been since she asked them to stop and they refused, even knowing it's hurting her.

[Scarlett]

Ashfern, the OP, hasn't commented any more on this thread. 

I would assume she has attempted to move away from the noise if that is possible.  But if they are doing it to annoy there is a good chance they are following her.

I am a little surprised people keep saying she should not speak up because it will make things worse.  That is how bullying thrives.

[GoodGrief]

Typically with that sort of thing, if it is ignored they will be bored by it quickly. What is the fun in playing the noise if no one is noticing/reacting? I'd encourage my child to move until this has passed. Perhaps monitors will give her permission to eat in another area of the school since she is physically impacted.

[BarbecueMom]

I tend to get nauseated and vomit when I hear repetitive obnoxious noises.  It would probably be a pain for them to clean regurgitated school lunch out of the crevices of their phones... 

 

(I'm not actually recommending it, because their mommies and daddies would probably be running up to the school demanding that your DD pay to replace their snowflake's iBarf.  I've tried for years to not find fantasy revenge amusing and satisfactory, but I've given up.)

[katilac]

I'm a little surprised that some people think this rises to the level of bullying or harassment. There is no indication in the OP that they are following her around, or even that they are doing it to annoy her in particular. 

Going only by the information given, I'd tell my own kid to move away and wait it out. The remaining three years of high school are going to be very long if she doesn't learn to deal with teenaged boys being annoying on her own. 

[katilac]

42 minutes ago, Ravin said:

Fear of retaliation is not a reason to discourage reporting bullying/harassment, which is what this has been since she asked them to stop and they refused, even knowing it's hurting her.

 

With the information we have, I don't agree that it's bullying/harassment. People don't have an obligation to stop doing something just because it annoys me or gives me a headache. It would certainly be nice if they did, but it's not bullying if they don't. 

[ashfern]

Thanks everyone. She did think that using headphones may help. The lunch room is very small and the sound for her is very loud. There are only a few weeks of school left so she'll just cope the best she can. She did mention punching them to get them to stop. She was kidding, I hope. These boys know that it annoys the kids in there but don't care. Personally, I find this a form of bullying and our school system prides themself on their anti-bullying program. I'll let her decide if she wants me to escalate it or not.