Help! Late to Engineering College Prep

[KellieMI]

Hello,

I'm interested in recommendations for my ds15, who would like to attend Michigan Technological University. He is currently a sophomore and will most likely attend the community college first unless there is scholarship money.  He will take the PSAT in the fall, so I do not have any idea if scholarships are plausible. I would like to prepare him to go to MTU as a traditional freshman, if possible.

Here is what he has taken already: Biology, Intro to Chemistry, and Astronomy,  Algebra 1 and 2.  He needs to revisit Geometry:-) What should his Junior and Senior years look like in regards to Math and Science?

We have a local community college where he could take Chemistry and Physics, but I have heard taking those classes at the CC do not adequately prepare students to transfer those classes and be successful. Would AP Chemistry and AP Physics classes offered online better prepare him for MTU than a CC class?

I have heard the same about the math classes, but he really needs to test into Calc I.  However,  the CC math classes will be better than what I am able to provide him here at home. 

Also, there is a local ISD that offers Pre-Engineering for Juniors and Seniors. He is not that excited about that and I am not sure if that would be helpful considering we are playing catch up with math and science. At an orientation at MTU, they said it could be helpful, but would not hurt his chances if he did not participate.  It would give him a good opportunity to work with others, which does not come easily to him;-)

Any input and advice is appreciated:-) Thank you in advance!

Kellie

 

[JanetC]

See if you can talk to a department advisor at MTU about the quality of the community college classes. Community College has a "loser stigma" -- but sometimes it's just rumors and trash talk. There should be state standards to ensure that transfer classes meet certain requirements. 

MTU should be able to tell you how their transfer students do (or whether they try to avoid accepting students from this particular CC because they just aren't prepared to do the work). Don't do it by email, go for a meeting, because they may tell you more than they might say in writing. 

I would suggest focusing on the fundamentals rather than adding engineering electives if you're not sure his fundamentals are strong. Math through precalculus, and the strongest chemistry and physics you can find, and the abilty to crank out a paper under deadline when necessary. 

He can start with calculus I as a college freshman if you don't ge to AP calc during high school, but doing a taste of calculus of some sort after finishing precalc will probably make the transition easier. 

There are a number of online providers for math if you can find a local tutor to help occasionally when he needs it. If possible, do the chemistry and physics in an in-person class that can offer labs.

[Alicia64]

A billion years ago I went to an awesome community college. It not only prepared me for the four-year school, but I thought the learning experience was better.

And, yes, the cc schools are rated -- so you might want to check out the ratings.

Alley

[Kassia]

24 minutes ago, Alicia64 said:

A billion years ago I went to an awesome community college. It not only prepared me for the four-year school, but I thought the learning experience was better.

And, yes, the cc schools are rated -- so you might want to check out the ratings.

Alley

 

Yes, the community college my dd attends for DE is fantastic.  One of my sons also did DE there and he also thought the learning experience was better at the CC than our flagship state university that he attended later.  

 

 

[JanetC]

Also "retaking classes" he took in CC may be normal in some cases -- For example, if he does algebra based physics in CC because he hasn't had calculus yet, he will take calculus-based physics for his engineering major later. 

[8filltheheart]

The only AP physics he could take would be alg-based bc of his math level. He has to have cal-based physics as an engineer so it would have to be taken at that higher level.

[KellieMI]

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far! I am getting together a list of things to speak with an advisor about and appreciate your insight!

Kellie

[regentrude]

I would strongly recommend that he take an algebra based physics class before taking the calculus based physics course required for his engineering major. It will be a good preparation. Yes, students can go right into calc based physics at university, but having prior physics exposure is very helpful.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

3 hours ago, KellieMI said:

Hello,

I'm interested in recommendations for my ds15, who would like to attend Michigan Technological University. He is currently a sophomore and will most likely attend the community college first unless there is scholarship money.  He will take the PSAT in the fall, so I do not have any idea if scholarships are plausible. I would like to prepare him to go to MTU as a traditional freshman, if possible.

Here is what he has taken already: Biology, Intro to Chemistry, and Astronomy,  Algebra 1 and 2.  He needs to revisit Geometry:-) What should his Junior and Senior years look like in regards to Math and Science?

We have a local community college where he could take Chemistry and Physics, but I have heard taking those classes at the CC do not adequately prepare students to transfer those classes and be successful. Would AP Chemistry and AP Physics classes offered online better prepare him for MTU than a CC class?

I have heard the same about the math classes, but he really needs to test into Calc I.  However,  the CC math classes will be better than what I am able to provide him here at home. 

Also, there is a local ISD that offers Pre-Engineering for Juniors and Seniors. He is not that excited about that and I am not sure if that would be helpful considering we are playing catch up with math and science. At an orientation at MTU, they said it could be helpful, but would not hurt his chances if he did not participate.  It would give him a good opportunity to work with others, which does not come easily to him;-)

Any input and advice is appreciated:-) Thank you in advance!

Kellie

 

Michigan Tech has always seemed like a very neat school.  It has a pretty high acceptance rate, so doing well freshman year and qualifying for scholarships are probably higher on your list than mere acceptance.

If your son is currently a sophomore, then the fall 2018 PSAT will be his junior year test, which will be the test that is used for National Merit qualification.  If you think he is on the edge of being qualified for that (for example if his scores on other standardized tests have been in the 90s), he will probably want to put some time into understanding the test format and reviewing concepts that show up.  I'm a fan of the Khan Academy prep, but my kids also used Up Your Score as a review book.

I have a different standard of usefulness when I'm judging community classes taken by DE students in high school than by high school graduates.  It isn't as important to me that a course taken during high school transfer into the 4 year college.  I actually have encouraged my kids to retake calculus 1 their freshman year of college rather than trying to move into calculus 2.  This still lets them be on track with their college degree plan, but also lets them see the full scope of calculus - as it is taught at their college.  They don't walk into calculus 2 after a summer (or a whole semester) off and hit harder, new material at the same time they are settling into college life.  They don't discover that there were gaps in their understanding or retention that they are now trying to build upon.   Both of my current college kids have commented that many of their classmates have also had calculus already from high school.   [There are other posters here with kids who took the transfer credit not only for calc 1, but for other advanced maths.  My kids have not been at the level in their math that moving forward was the right choice.]

Based on this idea that calculus and perhaps science courses taken at a CC might need to be retaken at a 4 year school, I didn't fret as much about whether or not the course was for top drawer caliber or if it would transfer everywhere.  They were going for exposure and experience.  [If you think he would stay in the same CC system after graduation, then you might have some different decision making to do.  You may want to lay out a what if plan for going directly to MTU as a freshman and another for doing a year or two at the community college after graduation.  I would talk to MTU a lot about transfer agreements and what courses with what grades would transfer.  Consider what will transfer into the CC vs what will transfer into the 4 year school - see Calming Tea's thread about AP Computer Science credit at two different schools.]

I personally think that the issues about taking transfer credit and moving ahead exist for both DE coursework and AP credit.  My kid who was in Engineering freshman year* took transfer credit for coursework that he wouldn't have to build on.  He retook classes that were in his major or that were part of the first year engineering requirements at his school.  [*His school has Computer Science in the college of engineering.  So he took the same General Engineering courses as other prospective engineers, then requested a change of major or CS.]

My kids have done both AP and DE classes.  

The AP classes have a more flexible schedule because I was teaching many of them.  On the other hand, there was often a tendency to fall behind in what we were doing, either because other needs got in the way or because we really dug into a topic.

The DE classes spread the learning over a whole semester, rather than hinging on just one test date.  They had a classroom, labs, and a real life instructor who could be asked to provide letters of recommendation for college and scholarship applications.  In the case of their chemistry prof, the instructor was an incredible role model (PhD, former flagship university instructor, scientific diver, Army reservist).  I heard so many Prof. R stories over the semester.  A downside of the DE classes was the schedule.  It really changed the family dynamic to not be able to just take a day and go see something awesome, or leave on a Thursday for a long weekend.  We frequently picked a kid up in the CC parking lot on the way out of town.  They often brought computers and books along to do homework in a hotel room or cabin.  [On the other hand, as annoying as this was, I think they learned a lot about owning their college education.  They both made a good transition into demanding college environments.  At least part of this is because the new environment wasn't wholly unfamiliar.]

I found some good info on the MTU first year courses.  I would dig into these pages and see what sorts of questions arise.  https://www.mtu.edu/ef/first-year/general/

My youngest (and most likely to be a regular engineer) does Science Olympiad.  SO has a lot of hands on engineering type events.  He's done balsa wood towers for two years, attempted a rubber band powered helicopter, did experimental design (which really demands understanding of the scientific experimentation process), and is looking foward to some other builds like mousetrap car or mission possible.  If you can find a SO team in your area, or start one up, it can be a great resource.  

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I also found this discussion of transferring DE classes on the MTU admissions page.  https://www.mtu.edu/admissions/apply/dual/