Washington and Oregon parents

[dereksurfs]

Hello,

I am looking for parents in WA and OR who can share their experiences. Specifically as your kids approach college or have attended college what are your thoughts of the schools? What are some challenges you've faced. etc..?

We currently live in CA and are considering a move to the PNW. Our teens are quickly approaching college age and I am looking at the schools, specifically the public colleges. 

Thanks,

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ds attends Bellevue College.  He's in the two year transfer track which has an agreement with UW.  He's not utilizing that though as he's transferring to a university in Arizona in the fall.  Like all schools, BC has it's good and bad teachers but we've been mostly pleased at the level of instruction. 

I know lots of people who have attended or are currently attending UW.  It's hard to get in esp. in some majors.  Huge classes in the undergrad level for the first couple of years.  But the school has a good reputation for a reason.  It's not super friendly to Christians but it isn't too bad either.   (If that last even matters to you.)

I know lots of people who have attended or are currently attending Seattle Pacific University.  They have some good scholarships even though it is a private Christian college.  Not everyone who attends the school are Christians.  Very good in certain majors.  (As are all schools.  We could be more specific if you said what majors your kids are interested in.)

I know lots of people who are attending other local schools like Eastern Washington University and Central Washington University.  Easier to get in but people seem happy with the education they are receiving. 

[Tsuga]

We already chatted, but I didn't mention one thing that we have in Washington. We are one of the states in which students can obtain a four year Bachelor of Applied Science at a community college. Dental hygiene, nursing, computer science, and other technical degrees can be obtained around the state at low cost. The schools are careful to keep these to technical degrees so it's not likely you'll get a meaningless degree: it will either be certified or not, and in the case of computer science, it's at least good to get a start at a local firm.

For the CCs, I have worked there and know people who've attended and worked at BC, Cascadia, Seattle Colleges, Whatcom, Pierce College, Renton, I could go on... I think we have a great system. The only caveat is the not all AAs transfer to the UW. They still evaluate every credit unless you are in a special program like Jean's son. Otherwise, they will evaluate by credit for transcripts and then again to see what counts for your major. If you plan to transfer to UW you really must work with a UW counselor specifically, and someone in your desired future major.

The other Us are less selective and I am pretty sure all of them use the direct transfer agreement.

[dereksurfs]

Our oldest is a junior and he is very STEM directed. He's leaning toward computer science right now and enjoying those classes at our local CC.

We're looking at western WA/OR colleges and not so interested in the eastern side. We also have limited funds as a donut family financially - make too much for need based aid. So we want good public options. Depending on our leaning we will live on one side of the border vs. the other.

In terms of schools we're considering a variety. For WA we'll looking at UW Bothell. That is the fastest growing U in WA with a good reputation overall. We don't want an over crowded, highly competitive school like UW Seattle for him. We're also looking at OSU which is very well regarded for STEM. They have excellent research opportunities even for undergrads to participate in through their Honors College. He's potentially interested in going on for graduate work. And its not as cutthroat as UW Seattle.  

PSU has an Honors College that looks interesting. Though it has very mixed reviews as a school overall. WSU Vancouver may be a consideration as well as WWU if we live in WA. Lastly, Western Oregon U may be an option for our girls depending on their major. They are still too young to really know.

Derek

[dereksurfs]

On 4/16/2018 at 12:46 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ds attends Bellevue College.  He's in the two year transfer track which has an agreement with UW.  He's not utilizing that though as he's transferring to a university in Arizona in the fall.  Like all schools, BC has it's good and bad teachers but we've been mostly pleased at the level of instruction. 

I know lots of people who have attended or are currently attending UW.  It's hard to get in esp. in some majors.  Huge classes in the undergrad level for the first couple of years.  But the school has a good reputation for a reason.  It's not super friendly to Christians but it isn't too bad either.   (If that last even matters to you.)

I know lots of people who have attended or are currently attending Seattle Pacific University.  They have some good scholarships even though it is a private Christian college.  Not everyone who attends the school are Christians.  Very good in certain majors.  (As are all schools.  We could be more specific if you said what majors your kids are interested in.)

I know lots of people who are attending other local schools like Eastern Washington University and Central Washington University.  Easier to get in but people seem happy with the education they are receiving. 

Hi Jean,

Thanks for input and sharing your experiences. I have a few follow-up questions regarding UW. Do you know anyone who has attended UW Bothell? We are more interested in that campus since it offers smaller class sizes, isn't as crazy competitive for STEM programs such as computer science. Plus the students have a better chance of interacting with and getting to know their professors. I've heard UW Bothell has some great internship opportunities as well with local companies close by. The downside would possibly be more of the commuter nature of the campus. However, our son is not at all interested in Greek life or the party scene. Most of his social network comes through friends from church or college related clubs.

Regarding Seattle Pacific and many of the other Catholic/Christian schools, we certainly wouldn't mind having that aspect. Yet I don't think its necessary either in the college setting. In addition, the biggest detractor for us high is the very high price tag for what one gets - basically, the ROI. Tuition can be 4x higher or more. And at that point I really have to ask is it 4 times better than a public U especially since these schools are not well known for STEM nor research with their primary focus on liberal arts.

With regards to scholarships, have any of you heard of the terms 'vanity scholarships' or 'cocktail scholarships?' Basically, many of the over inflated private schools offer a lot of smaller scholarships relative to the overall cost of attending. Research has shown that when they offer parents and students 'something' they are more inclined to want to attend. Parents can brag about little Johnny getting offered scholarships from XYZ U. However, the cost still ends up being higher than an equivalent public U. That's not to say that all scholarships are small or trivial, just the smallish ones are more common at some of these schools.

If overall cost of attendance is $60K/year (and rising) and the school offers us $25k in scholarships, that's still too high given we have three to put through college. Even if it ends up being the same cost as the public U, would the ROI be as good as let's say UW Bothell or OSU? I guess that would depend a lot on the student's major and academic goals.

Derek

 

[EKS]

Well, coming from CA (and we did--UC alumni for undergrad and grad), the state schools, at least in WA, are going to seem underwhelming.  UW (main campus) is excellent, but there is only one of it, and popular majors are impacted.  I will say that homeschool admissions for UW (and I haven't actually gone through it, so take this with a grain of salt) are much simpler than for UC.

My older son attended the local CC for a year and a bit, and it was solid.  

[dereksurfs]

Kai,

We're CA natives and actually looking for the 'opposite' experience of our current overcrowded and heavily impacted UCs and more popular CSUs. With ridiculous class sizes, difficulty getting classes needed to graduate on time, majors of interest or research opportunities, there are many families looking for better opportunities elsewhere. Granted some of our friends still make it work, but the conditions in our better schools are not for us. IMO, CA is in many ways its own worst enemy with our beautiful weather and reputation for good public U's. People flock to our state like no other from all over the world. As a result, we find the conditions we are currently in with massive over crowding and under funded schools. They simply can't keep up with the demand.

That's why many students look out of state to less impacted regions like the PNW. UW Seattle is actually the most 'CA like' campus which is a big turn off to us. We don't want another UCLA/UC Berkeley type experience with over crowding, cutthroat competition, etc... I'm not saying that environment is bad for everyone. It just doesn't fit our families' educational goals or preferences. That's why we actually like the lessor known or up and coming schools which provide more opportunities to a wider range of students.

OSU is a perfect example of this. Most folks outside the PNW don't even know about it in a 'name dropping' sort of way. And that's fantastic for a number of reasons. For example, OSU is only one of two land, sea, space and sun grant research institutions in the U.S. This provides an incredible amount of research opportunities for its faculty and student body in programs which are 'not' impacted. Students get to know their professors and can find interesting research projects to participate in even at the undergraduate level. 

UW Bothell is another example of WA finding creative ways to deal with the over crowding of their main Seattle campus. Unlike our UCs, UW has satellite campuses under the same larger umbrella of the 'main' campus. Students from the satellite campuses can even take courses at the main campus (within limits). And some of the same instructors actually teach at both campuses. The students all graduate with a UW degree.

So while certainly not perfect, OR/WA universities do provide for some unique opportunities not present in other states like CA. Then there is the beauty of the PNW which is an added bonus for outdoor nature lovers like us. ;)

[Jean in Newcastle]

OSU is a good school.  It's been 30 years since I've lived down there though so I don't know of any recent attendees so can't give you input.  I liked their library.  ;)

UW Bothell's biggest problem will be traffic.  Unless you live up in that area, it is right on a major freeway corridor that makes commuting problematic.  

[dereksurfs]

Jean, 

What are your thoughts on UW Bothell itself in terms of academic, research and internship opportunities? I've heard good things about the campus overall.

In terms of traffic, our son would live on campus or nearby off campus. So that won't be as big of an issue. It looks like WA is investing heavily in UW Bothell with plans to expand housing and campus facilities as well. I think it has a bright future if they plan and execute things right. 

We looked at living near the school at one point but ruled it out because we do not want to live in an area that crowded. Plus, the COL/housing has exploded in and around the Seattle area similar to where we live now in CA. We prefer less impacted regions of the state. 

In terms of environment, UW Bothell and OSU seem opposites in many ways. OSU is more of that classic college experience in a small college town (Corvallis). There are still many things to do especially if one loves the outdoors. Salem, Eugene, the coast and the mountains are all within ~ an hour drive. While UW Bothell is very close to Seattle and has more of that big city kind of experience and overall exposure. The close proximity to large companies and university-industry collaboration is a huge benefit for UW-B students. I've heard students have no trouble finding internships or jobs upon graduation because of this. 

These are more of my impressions based upon online research since we don't actually live there nor have we visited yet. We have visited WA and OR many times but not these specific campuses nor their towns. We are planning a trip out soon to check things out. It will most likely happen this summer due to school schedules, etc...

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ds says that UW Bothell is good from what he's heard.  I don't know anyone who has actually attended there. 

[Bocky]

This year we have started visiting local colleges with DD16. She's into languages rather than STEM, but I can share some general impressions. We toured UW in Seattle - lovely campus, huge, great location in Seattle. Definitely for the student who likes a large, competitive school and can afford expensive housing. DH works in semiconductor manufacturing and does alot of hiring. He says UW Seattle is the top PNW school for engineering. The only other local school they hire engineers from is OSU - not as good as UW but a cut above everything else, DH says. Corvallis had a small town feel - the university was the town, DD felt. Lots of good housing options and lots of good internship opportunities. When you visit OSU, I recommend that you check out UO in Eugene as well. We went to UO for Duck Days. Eugene is bigger than Corvalis but still out in the countryside with lots of great opportunities to commune with nature. They are doing lots of construction on campus, and just got a huge STEM focused donation. We have also visited Willamette U, and Reed College (a student run nuclear reactor!).

[dereksurfs]

12 hours ago, Bocky said:

This year we have started visiting local colleges with DD16. She's into languages rather than STEM, but I can share some general impressions. We toured UW in Seattle - lovely campus, huge, great location in Seattle. Definitely for the student who likes a large, competitive school and can afford expensive housing. DH works in semiconductor manufacturing and does alot of hiring. He says UW Seattle is the top PNW school for engineering. The only other local school they hire engineers from is OSU - not as good as UW but a cut above everything else, DH says. Corvallis had a small town feel - the university was the town, DD felt. Lots of good housing options and lots of good internship opportunities. When you visit OSU, I recommend that you check out UO in Eugene as well. We went to UO for Duck Days. Eugene is bigger than Corvalis but still out in the countryside with lots of great opportunities to commune with nature. They are doing lots of construction on campus, and just got a huge STEM focused donation. We have also visited Willamette U, and Reed College (a student run nuclear reactor!).

 

Thanks for posting your recent experiences, Bocky. Your husband's perspective seems similar to what I've read so far. Since we're not interested in the large UW Seattle campus experience we're considering the other viable options for STEM students. One of the interesting things about UW Bothell is that students get a smaller, more personal college experience while still having access to resources of the main Seattle campus. They can even take some classes there if they want to. In addition, they have a very good record for placing graduates in local companies with many internship opportunities available. Plus, the UW degree looks the same basically for all graduates regardless of campus attended. Is there a reason you guys didn't visit one of the UW satellites? I'm not sure about language programs though since we haven't really looked at those.

Regarding Oregon options, we really like OSU so far. From all the research we've done it seems like a good fit for our son. Corvallis is definitely a place we will be visiting and even possibly consider living once we check out the campus and town. Yes, we know its smaller. We've lived in everything from large cities to smaller towns and enjoy certain aspects of small town living. We currently live in Monterey which has ~ 28K residents and love it! However, we have adjoining towns which make it 'feel' bigger. In addition, we're ~ 1-1.5 hours from the Bay Area when we need big city things like international airports, etc... So there isn't any sense of isolation or living out in the 'boonies.' ? 

That's interesting to hear about UO and STEM donations. They are less known for things like engineering or computer science. However, I'm glad to hear they've received new funding. OSU is growing quite a bit as well including their nationally recognized robotics program which drew us to the school initially. Our son loves anything to do with robots. 

Oregon has a number of those smaller well regarded private LA colleges. They are expensive though I know they can also offer scholarships depending on the student, major, etc... Does your DD have any preferences so far? Our middle DD 'may' be interested in a language program at some point. Though its still too early to tell.

[dereksurfs]

12 hours ago, Bocky said:

We went to UO for Duck Days. Eugene is bigger than Corvalis but still out in the countryside with lots of great opportunities to commune with nature. They are doing lots of construction on campus, and just got a huge STEM focused donation. 

 

Bocky, I was just reading about UO's new $1-Billion Science Center they are starting to build. Thanks for the heads up on that effort. The Knight's made a huge donation which is awesome! The focus of the center seems very much on life sciences at least initially. Apparently they want to partner with OHSU School of Medicine for some of their research efforts. One of the odd parts for me as well as some reviewers is that they still have no school of engineering which is a vital part of STEM research. Although OHSU is primarily a medical school, for example, they also have programs in Biomedical Engineering as well as Computer Science and Electrical Engineering. I wonder if UO will plan something like this in future phases, perhaps, once they establish their initial programs within the center? I'm sure they will have a lot to do in terms of hiring new staff and planning once the center is built.

[Bocky]

Yes, UO doesn’t have engineering, just computer science. Sounds like OSU could be a great fit for your ds.

We haven’t visited any Washington satellite campuses because we’d be out of state. DD likes the idea of the University of Hawai’i at Manoa for the depth of their language offerings and their peace studies Institute. Of course she might just be thinking of four years by the beach. ?

You mentioned well-regarded, liberal arts schools. For engineers, both Reed and Willamette have Dual Degree 3 / 2 programs. For Reed you do 3 years at Reed then 2 years at Caltech and earn both a Reed BA and Caltech Bachelors of Engineering. At Willamette you can choose from Columbia, USC, or UW for the engineering bachelors. Both schools felt great undergraduate access to research opportunities was one of their strong selling points for science/math students, as well as the small, professor-taught classes.

We’re at the beginning of figuring it all out. Another thing (in addition to the tours) that has helped so far was a big college fair where we got to speak to a lot of admissions reps. Have you visited some of your local schools? Even though those particular universities might not be on your ds’s list, visiting different campuses has been very helpful for us to see what a typical tour and talk entails, and what sorts of things of different types of university see as their selling points. The two small liberal arts colleges we visited had so much more in common with each other than with the big schools.

[FairProspects]

I grew up in Corvallis and my Mom has taught in the Exercise/Sports Science department. ? Yes, OSU has a great reputation in the NW for engineering and sciences. My father worked for Hewlett-Packard in Corvallis for 30+ years and they hired countless engineers locally from OSU. Corvallis is a fabulous smaller town and consistently makes "best places to live" lists. It is getting increasingly more expensive because of this, but still maintains a great quality of life. I actually attended UW Seattle because I was not sciences inclined. Liberal arts are generally not considered strong at the OR public colleges, unless you are looking at the private schools like Reed or Willamette.

[Frances]

On 5/21/2018 at 7:24 PM, FairProspects said:

I grew up in Corvallis and my Mom has taught in the Exercise/Sports Science department. ? Yes, OSU has a great reputation in the NW for engineering and sciences. My father worked for Hewlett-Packard in Corvallis for 30+ years and they hired countless engineers locally from OSU. Corvallis is a fabulous smaller town and consistently makes "best places to live" lists. It is getting increasingly more expensive because of this, but still maintains a great quality of life. I actually attended UW Seattle because I was not sciences inclined. Liberal arts are generally not considered strong at the OR public colleges, unless you are looking at the private schools like Reed or Willamette.

I think U of O has a small, very rigorous honors college that is liberal arts and humanities focused, much more at the level of Reed than Willamette. And for languages, they have several language specific floors in the honors college dorms. While Willamette is a great LAC in many ways (small classes, interaction with profs), I’ve known several people who attended both it and OSU or U of O, and all say that the rigor is much higher at the state schools. Their majors included economics, math, chemistry, physics, and political science, so I don’t know as much about humanities majors. But they would also say an advantage of WU is that it’s pretty easy to get all As, even in challenging majors, so that can keep lots of doors open for grad and professional school.

I would agree with earlier posts that OSU is stronger in engineering and computer science and U of O focuses more on biology, human physiology. chemistry, neuroscience, etc. Both have tons of research opportunities for undergrads. A friends’ son graduated from OSU in computer science last year and had lots of job offers. His girlfriend in biomedical engineering got into a very selective prosthetics grad program. All of my son’s friends who graduated from U of O with science majors and went on to grad or professional school say they felt very, very well prepared and were pleasantly surprised by how easy it was after a challenging undergrad.

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that the state schools in Oregon are on the quarter system, so in general, students take significantly more courses over four years compared to a semester system. Talking to some of my son’s friends at U of O and OSU,  I was often blown away by the their schedules compared to what I was used to at LACs on semesters. They really cram a lot into four years, so a good value in that sense.

Another thing I would add about U of O from my son’s friends is that at least for the sciences, most of the departments offer small, rigorous honors level sequences of the introductory courses. So depending on the major, if a student does their distribution courses in the small honors college and takes the honors sequences for their lower level science courses, they can graduate without ever having a class larger than 50 students. And many of the lab sections for upper level courses are very, very small. Also, UO uses lots of full-time teaching professors for many of their lower level science sequences, so the quality of teaching is usually quite good, and tons of support is offered outside of class.

[dereksurfs]

On 5/21/2018 at 7:24 PM, FairProspects said:

I grew up in Corvallis and my Mom has taught in the Exercise/Sports Science department. ? Yes, OSU has a great reputation in the NW for engineering and sciences. My father worked for Hewlett-Packard in Corvallis for 30+ years and they hired countless engineers locally from OSU. Corvallis is a fabulous smaller town and consistently makes "best places to live" lists. It is getting increasingly more expensive because of this, but still maintains a great quality of life. I actually attended UW Seattle because I was not sciences inclined. Liberal arts are generally not considered strong at the OR public colleges, unless you are looking at the private schools like Reed or Willamette.

 

FairProspects, Thanks so much for sharing your family's experience growing up in Corvallis. We are really looking forward to visiting the town and campus this summer. Our oldest DD has just told us she might want to attend public high school which scared my wife, initially. But we've heard generally good things about the two public high schools in Corvallis. So we are a bit more inclined to allow her to go that route if its what she wants after homeschooling her entire life. Plus, she can always come home if she hates it. ?

I'm curious if you would ever consider living there again? Or do you feel its too small now relatively speaking?