I am not over-reacting. I am not! (foot stomping temper tantrum ahead)

[Amber in SJ]

Ok, some of you may remember that I posted that while the boards were down an adult from our church was unkind & cyberbullied my 15yo dd on social media.  Here is what happened:

My 15yo & my 20 yo dds and I took part in the March for Our Lives rally in our city.  It was legal & relatively calm, I thought.  While I don't necessarily agree with all of their opinions I support both of my daughters burgeoning political activism.

15 yo posted several pictures of herself & her sister at the rally.

Her Sunday School teacher posted several scriptures on dd's pictures as a chastisement.  Because she thinks God is a Republican, and last week she told her Sunday School class that the Constitution was written by God.  Madison & Co. must be surprised to hear that.

Dd was really upset about the comments but decided to just delete and ignore.  My older dd had problems with being bullied at church in her teen years, so I didn't want to let this go unchecked and get worse.

This person was gone from church for 2 weeks.  I thought about sending her an email but I thought this might be best face to face.  The wait was actually good for me because I was able to calm down and think about what would be the appropriate response.

At church I asked her for a private word but she wouldn't leave the gym so I said as nicely as possible,

"I am sure you didn't mean to hurt dd's feelings with your comment, but she was really upset."  

And then it was on.

First she accused me of bringing up a pampered snowflake because her children have always been able to be their own advocates therefore dd should have contacted her directly about being hurt and then she (the adult) could have continued to explain her position.  I said it was not appropriate to expect a 15 year old to need to defend their instagram pictures against an adult's interpretation of scriptures.  Nor should she feel the need to respond to what amounts to cyberbullying by an adult. 

And the next thing I know she is in my personal space yelling at me, shaking her finger in my face and screaming things like, "I am going to have to excuse myself because you don't know how to handle things."  And then not leaving.  And, "Don't you ever say the word cyberbully to me again." or my personal favorite, "I am never speaking to you or your children again!"  To which I responded, "That is fine."

Later that day she sent me a "sorry, not sorry" email where her basic defense was "I am not a bully; you are," because I talked to her at church.  And that I am not a real Christian because I am standing in the way of her explaining herself to dd because that is where healing begins.  She sent this email to Dh and asked him to forward it to me, saying my email in the directory was not valid.  I checked, not only is my email valid & working, but my email is the family email, she would have had to go through several more clicks to find dh's email.  I am pretty sure she just wanted to make sure dh knew I was being "mean" to her.  I think she wanted my "head of household" to rein me in.  I sent her back a response wherein I apologized for poor choice of venue for the discussion (although if she hadn't started yelling no one would have noticed) and if she wanted to apologize for hurting dd's feelings I would never stand in the way because I think young people need more examples of people who sincerely apologize when they hurt someone's feelings even if inadvertently.   No response.  I thought it was done.

Today on Facebook I was griping about the front office staff at dd's eye doctor.  They forgot to order her contacts (again,) and at the end of the post I jokingly wrote "one bad Yelp review coming up!" and one of this woman's cronies commented, "Cyberbullying!"

If you have got this far.....What sayeth the hive?  High road & delete?  Or ya know...unload what my kids call, "Your machine gun of insults?"  

Amber in SJ

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ignore the FB thing.  Unfriend, block etc. her and her cronies.

As a pastor's wife, my opinion is that this should now go to the Sunday school superintendent or the pastor (or whoever is in charge of her as a Sunday school teacher).  Her reaction to you talking to her at the church was 100% inappropriate and unprofessional.  Her singling out your daughter as a minor is inappropriate.  Can your dd also block her from instagram (don't know if that is possible) and any other social media?  Honestly, I would pull your dd from her class and would keep her with you or put her in another teacher's class if possible.  She is not spiritually mature enough to be a teacher. 

[mamakelly]

Formers pastors wife here. No, no and no. Her response was over the top. You need to involve someone over her. She shouldn’t be teaching Sunday classes if she’s that easy to snap at a parent.

[Ellie]

11 minutes ago, mamakelly said:

Formers pastors wife here. No, no and no. Her response was over the top. You need to involve someone over her. She shouldn’t be teaching Sunday classes if she’s that easy to snap at a parent.

 

20 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ignore the FB thing.  Unfriend, block etc. her and her cronies.

As a pastor's wife, my opinion is that this should now go to the Sunday school superintendent or the pastor (or whoever is in charge of her as a Sunday school teacher).  Her reaction to you talking to her at the church was 100% inappropriate and unprofessional.  Her singling out your daughter as a minor is inappropriate.  Can your dd also block her from instagram (don't know if that is possible) and any other social media?  Honestly, I would pull your dd from her class and would keep her with you or put her in another teacher's class if possible.  She is not spiritually mature enough to be a teacher. 

There just aren't enough ways I can *like* these two responses. ITA 100 %.

[Ausmumof3]

Sounds like she isn't just a cyberbully but an irl one as well.

[HS Mom in NC]

Your pastor and anyone else in your church structure in authority need to be made aware of all of this in detail.  No way should this person be a Sunday School teacher or in any leadership capacity and the pastor needs to handle this as a church discipline problem.  Yelling at a parent?  The Constitution written by God? Calling someone a snowflake? Cyber bullying?  Never speaking to another church member again? God is politically partisan?  She needs stern pastoral correction and to be relieved of her position immediately.  She has serious spiritual issues that need addressing from someone in authority. What else is she saying to other people that we don't know about?

[Carol in Cal.]

Wow, that is really OTT.  

[Tsuga]

I can't even wrap my head around how that is happening. Interacting with kids on social media, for starters, is a nono for most adults in authority. And her behavior just goes downhill from there. Or I don't know, maybe it's all equally bad so there's no downhill here. It started at the 9-year-old level and appears to stay there.

I don't think you are overreacting.

That said, I wouldn't focus on the specifics of what she said. I would focus on her interacting with kids on social media, her (bizarre) false teaching on the Constitution etc., and your concern about her being a teacher of your child when she said she'd never talk to you again. Just for practical purposes, that's not a practical solution for a teacher.

Quote

My older dd had problems with being bullied at church in her teen years, so I didn't want to let this go unchecked and get worse.

Not to be a jerk about it, but what kind of church do you go to (I don't mean denomination but how is the community set up), and why? It doesn't sound like a place for communion or spiritual growth.

Disclosure: I'm no longer a Christian, but when I was, I went to a church in which adults acted like adults. Posts like this blow my mind. I'd never have converted if I'd seen Christians attending that church. How could you ever invite a friend to that situation, if you were concerned about them? Like imagine someone like me. You want to reach out. I just can't see how the community provides a place to love, and if it doesn't do that, is it even a church?

[Tanaqui]

You need to go up the authority at your church and let them know what happened. Lay out the full context, just as you did here, and tell them what action you feel is acceptable on their part - I'm thinking she should be removed from that position and your church needs to draft a policy regarding how pastors and teachers and the like can respond to others on social media - especially adults responding to minors.

This sort of thing is not acceptable in any organization, and that includes churches.

[Grover]

I cannot agree more with the people saying you need to take this higher.  This person should not be teaching.  Yelling at a parent raising a concern?  And now she has obviously shared your conversation with someone else if they are commenting on your FB - which means she may well have shared private information.  Inappropriate. 

[Melissa in Australia]

I cannot get past  the point that she really thinks God is American and affiliated to a particular government party. She sure has a narrow view of God!

[Liz CA]

3 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ignore the FB thing.  Unfriend, block etc. her and her cronies.

As a pastor's wife, my opinion is that this should now go to the Sunday school superintendent or the pastor (or whoever is in charge of her as a Sunday school teacher).  Her reaction to you talking to her at the church was 100% inappropriate and unprofessional.  Her singling out your daughter as a minor is inappropriate.  Can your dd also block her from instagram (don't know if that is possible) and any other social media?  Honestly, I would pull your dd from her class and would keep her with you or put her in another teacher's class if possible.  She is not spiritually mature enough to be a teacher. 

 

And...to add, I am wondering about your older daughter being bullied at church by an adult? The same woman? The same church? Eek. Have other people had similar experiences but nobody talks about it? All kinds of question pop up if there is a pattern.

[Liz CA]

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I cannot get past  the point that she really thinks God is American and affiliated to a particular government party. She sure has a narrow view of God!

 

If she was not joking and some kids misunderstood it, there is more going on than just immaturity or an ill fit for Sunday school. :)

[catz]

I would absolutely report her and block all of them on social media.  She sounds like a nut!   Sounds like your church needs some boundary policies on their youth leaders.  Way crossing a line.  My momma bear heckles are up just reading that!

[Carrie12345]

No advice on the nitty gritty, but as to the own advocates thing... 

I'm very big on my 14 and 15yos being their own advocates. That does not stop me from expressing my thoughts, feelings, or positions to the people who have been crappy to them. Active support is always appropriate at any age.

[mom@shiloh]

I agree that you need to bring this to whoever exercises oversight of the SS teachers in your church.  It would be best if you had a screen shot of the initial FB post.  Without that, it can just be your word against hers.  

[Soror]

I don't think you are overreacting at all. I agree with all the PPs, I think both of you should block and ignore her and there is no way in h*ll I'd let my daughter go back to her class. I'd not send my daughter to any class where she or her friends were teaching/attending without being there myself. It really chaps my hide the way some people push this 'biblical resolution' model, it just serves as a way for abusers to abuse again. My kids are really independent but I'm sure going to stick up for them and after that reaction there is no way I'd back down, I'd not trust her a second. 

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, I agree with all the others.  Don't engage in any way on social media, delete and block if it makes sense, and make a pastor or head of the Sunday school aware of what has gone on.  I wouldn't necessarily do that looking for a particular outcome, though it might be a good idea to have a sense of what you think needs to happen, but I'd be open to how that person things it might be best handled.  

[ktgrok]

Um, why on earth are you still at a church that teaches such idiocy? God wrote the constitution? God is a republican? Honestly, I'd be either taking all of this malarkey up with the pastor or I'd be leaving. Or both.

As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid.

[PrincessMommy]

10 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Ignore the FB thing.  Unfriend, block etc. her and her cronies.

As a pastor's wife, my opinion is that this should now go to the Sunday school superintendent or the pastor (or whoever is in charge of her as a Sunday school teacher).  Her reaction to you talking to her at the church was 100% inappropriate and unprofessional.  Her singling out your daughter as a minor is inappropriate.  Can your dd also block her from instagram (don't know if that is possible) and any other social media?  Honestly, I would pull your dd from her class and would keep her with you or put her in another teacher's class if possible.  She is not spiritually mature enough to be a teacher. 

 

10 hours ago, mamakelly said:

Formers pastors wife here. No, no and no. Her response was over the top. You need to involve someone over her. She shouldn’t be teaching Sunday classes if she’s that easy to snap at a parent.

 

8 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Your pastor and anyone else in your church structure in authority need to be made aware of all of this in detail.  No way should this person be a Sunday School teacher or in any leadership capacity and the pastor needs to handle this as a church discipline problem.  Yelling at a parent?  The Constitution written by God? Calling someone a snowflake? Cyber bullying?  Never speaking to another church member again? God is politically partisan?  She needs stern pastoral correction and to be relieved of her position immediately.  She has serious spiritual issues that need addressing from someone in authority. What else is she saying to other people that we don't know about?

 

Not enough "likes" is right.  OMG! I cannot believe how awful some adults can be.  So sorry. 

[ScoutTN]

You are definitely not over-reacting! I agree with the pp, take it up with the church leadership. If it is not handled appropriately, leave.  How on earth does this church vet their teachers, to end up with such an idiot?

 

[alisoncooks]

Wow. So not only is she bat-poo crazy, she's been gossiping and spreading rumors/slander against you to her friends (who then are getting involved).  Sooo not scriptural...       

Definitely go above her head. This woman did not handle the situation correctly. I can't imagine the negative impact she made on the youth who saw her act that way. ?

[GailV]

If I had received the "Cyberbullying!" comment on my social media, I would've been sorely tempted to clap back a Bible verse on gossiping, like, "Titus 2:3, amirite?"   So, see, you're already doing better than I would! 

[plansrme]

I have to say, my favorite part of this story is that she ratted you out to your husband.  Classic “Christian” move.  It has happened to me twice in dealings with two different Christian schools. Neither ended well, although before that point, at least one of the relationships was completely salvageable.  I am sorry you had this experience.  Having dealt with my share of Christian drama (and I am a Christian), I am particularly appalled by some of the weapons in the Christian arsenal.

[EKS]

I don't think you should have confronted her.  I think that you should have instructed your daughter to ignore her facebook comments (and delete, if she wanted to).  Then your daughter could have chosen to either unfriend her or if she didn't want to actually unfriend her, she could just put her on the restricted list, which means that she stays friends, but the person can't see anything by your daughter's public posts.

I'd also take your daughter out of her Sunday school class.  Because she is obviously whacko. 

[SKL]

1) I don't think she was cyberbullying in the first place.  She didn't call her a name or tell her to off herself, she just posted an alternative view of a political controversy.

Exchange of opinion is absolutely necessary in a diverse democratic society.  Since you support your daughter's burgeoning political activism, support her ability to listen to all sides of the issues.  I do not believe 15 is too young to hear opinions from adults.

As far as the constitution comment, all churches teach things we may not agree with, but we deal with it.  I started processing that no later than middle school. 

I am sorry your daughter was upset, but I would advise her to blow it off.

2) The teacher reacted like a crazy person when you spoke to her.  I would probably complain as others have suggested.  I doubt your daughter has anything spiritual to gain by continuing in her class.

[Heathermomster]

OP, You wouldn’t do very well where I live. My son’s been told he’s going to hell after someone looked at one of his Spotify playlists .

My son once went to a friend’s house and his older brother was sitting there waiting to talk to my son. The older brother then explained to DS that he’s not likely saved because he attends a church that uses the Westminster Catechism. 

I don’t know what to say about these people.  I suppose it’s nice when adults care enough about your child’s soul that they attempt to instruct them, even when their effort was poorly executed.  Try to reconcile with the teacher and ask her to delete her comments.  This is a great opportunity for you to demonstrate grace and reconciliation to your child.  Follow the instructions laid out in Matthew 18:15-17.  

 

[scholastica]

That's crazy! I think you should ask for a meeting with the teacher and the Sunday School Supervisor or Pastor in your church together. A meeting where you can both lay out your point of view, and then you both know what's been said to the Supervisor/Pastor. She's likely to get unhinged again and then the superior can see for him/herself. 

[Twolittleboys]

Personally, I would not feel comfortable at a church that teaches anything remotely related to God is a Republican/wrote the constitution etc. as that is to me a wild misrepresentation. Even if it is not the official position of the church, it is not appropriate for a Sunday school teacher to spout such nonsense. And as you mentioned that your older dd had problems with being bullied at church as well, I would definitely change churches.

[Tsuga]

52 minutes ago, SKL said:

1) I don't think she was cyberbullying in the first place.  She didn't call her a name or tell her to off herself, she just posted an alternative view of a political controversy.

Exchange of opinion is absolutely necessary in a diverse democratic society.  Since you support your daughter's burgeoning political activism, support her ability to listen to all sides of the issues.  I do not believe 15 is too young to hear opinions from adults.

As far as the constitution comment, all churches teach things we may not agree with, but we deal with it.  I started processing that no later than middle school. 

I am sorry your daughter was upset, but I would advise her to blow it off.

Where I am it would be considered aggressively inappropriate for a school or church leader to contact a charge in social media.

Disagreement is one thing. Abuse of authority is another entirely.

And teaching things that have no relationship to the verifiable, historical truth of the matter--well, many would argue that's just part of church but I couldn't live with that. It is already a leap of faith. Rewiting historical fact from 200 years ago would destroy someone's faith in a heartbeat. If you truly believe that Jesus is the son of God do you really want your child learning this body of knowledge in the same basket as "Also, God wrote the Constitution" and "God chooses political parties"?

I think that is too destructive to accept.

I agree that disengaging is key but acceptance of this behavior is really accepting a very low bar for behavior at what is supposed to be the family's main source of social communion and spiritual growth. It all sounds rotten to me.

[Tsuga]

40 minutes ago, Heathermomster said:

OP, You wouldn’t do very well where I live. My son’s been told he’s going to hell after someone looked at one of his Spotify playlists .

My son once went to a friend’s house and his older brother was sitting there waiting to talk to my son. The older brother then explained to DS that he’s not likely saved because he attends a church that uses the Westminster Catechism. 

I don’t know what to say about these people.  I suppose it’s nice when adults care enough about your child’s soul that they attempt to instruct them, even when their effort was poorly executed.  Try to reconcile with the teacher and ask her to delete her comments.  This is a great opportunity for you to demonstrate grace and reconciliation to your child.  Follow the instructions laid out in Matthew 18:15-17.  

 

I think the key difference in your case is that kids are talking to each other, not using social media to attack the beliefs of a charge.

The authority of the person making the statements here makes all the difference.

If this were two teens, I would say, "well that's life." But it is not.

Also, it is within the legal limits of a church to advise people on media consumption.

Telling people how to vote is illegal, a violation of tax code for religious tax exempt institutions.

These differences underscore how immature and ill suited the "teacher" is to be in a position of authority over children. 

Of course you will hear uncomfortable truths at church. But political and just plain false stuff? Adults versus kids on Instagram? That's a different ball game.

[Bluegoat]

Honestly even among adults, it's one thing to talk about or post that you have a different view, but you can do that in a way that is conversational and respectful, or one that isn't.  This sounds like the latter.

[SKL]

10 minutes ago, Tsuga said:

Where I am it would be considered aggressively inappropriate for a school or church leader to contact a charge in social media.

Disagreement is one thing. Abuse of authority is another entirely.

And teaching things that have no relationship to the verifiable, historical truth of the matter--well, many would argue that's just part of church but I couldn't live with that. It is already a leap of faith. Rewiting historical fact from 200 years ago would destroy someone's faith in a heartbeat. If you truly believe that Jesus is the son of God do you really want your child learning this body of knowledge in the same basket as "Also, God wrote the Constitution" and "God chooses political parties"?

I think that is too destructive to accept.

I agree that disengaging is key but acceptance of this behavior is really accepting a very low bar for behavior at what is supposed to be the family's main source of social communion and spiritual growth. It all sounds rotten to me.

I am assuming that the OP was paraphrasing and the teacher did not actually say "God is a Republican."  Without hearing the exact words, I am reluctant to attack.  But in any case, we all know that different people hold views (religious and otherwise) that we cannot espouse.  At some point yes, it can mean the church is no longer a fit.  I'm not opposed to asking the pastor / youth director whether the words spoken in Sunday School are considered acceptable by the church.  Maybe they aren't, maybe thy are.  If they aren't, the teacher may need a talking-to.  But diverse religious opinions are a fact of life in the USA.  As long as they aren't advocating some patently evil action, we vote with our feet.

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

Honestly even among adults, it's one thing to talk about or post that you have a different view, but you can do that in a way that is conversational and respectful, or one that isn't.  This sounds like the latter.

It would be interesting to see the exact posts.  OP said she posted Bible verses.  That sounds pretty mild to me, unless the verses implied she was on the fast track to Hell or similar.

[Heathermomster]

The older brother I mentioned was a 30 yo man talking to my 15 yo son.  

If an adult told my child all that political garbage during SS, I would absolutely speak with the Pastor and discover what actually transpired.  That teacher would be gone if she stated all that crazy stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tsuga]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

I am assuming that the OP was paraphrasing and the teacher did not actually say "God is a Republican."  Without hearing the exact words, I am reluctant to attack.  But in any case, we all know that different people hold views (religious and otherwise) that we cannot espouse.  At some point yes, it can mean the church is no longer a fit.  I'm not opposed to asking the pastor / youth director whether the words spoken in Sunday School are considered acceptable by the church.  Maybe they aren't, maybe thy are.  If they aren't, the teacher may need a talking-to.  But diverse religious opinions are a fact of life in the USA.  As long as they aren't advocating some patently evil action, we vote with our feet.

 

I do agree with you that we have to deal with people who don't agree with us, but the lines here are not those of disagreement. They are those of abusing a position of authority (political instruction of a child), inappropriate contact outside of the church (social media connections with children), and abusing religious exempt status (regardless of the exact language, preaching politics, partisan or issue-based).

And then of course, I don't know about you but to me disagreement at church should be along the lines of "how should be interpret, 'woman you've had five husbands'" and "I say to you, you have committed adultery" in the context of modern divorce?

Not, "I wonder if the Constitution was written by God."

[Tsuga]

1 minute ago, Heathermomster said:

The older brother I mentioned was a 30 yo man talking to my 15 yo son.  

If an adult told my child all that political garbage during SS, I would absolutely speak with the Pastor and discover what actually transpired.  That teacher would be gone.  

I see, thank you for clarifying. I do think official authority plays a role here.

For anyone wondering why I care... well, I'm imagining this is a sports club. No Jesus involved. All the things I mentioned:

* Adult-kid social media interaction

* Using 501(c) status for political teaching

* Abuse of authority to influence a child politically 

And then the fact that this is supposed to be a spiritually edifying environment and she's spouting nonsense about the Constitution--if you're truly a Christian, you expect teaching in Church to be as valid as teaching at school. Just plain false teaching is not acceptable. Anyway not to me! What the heck am I paying 10% of my income to support?

The attitude that "sometimes the Church tells us wacky things" is to me setting your children up to leave the church. If you're in it for the social connections I guess that's fine but if you take this as, "here is how they connect to our whole community and body of spiritual knowledge" then how is that okay?

[Bluegoat]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

It would be interesting to see the exact posts.  OP said she posted Bible verses.  That sounds pretty mild to me, unless the verses implied she was on the fast track to Hell or similar.

 

Maybe, though I tend to think that posting verses like that is actually kind of aggressive - the implication is that you know what they mean, and the meaning is clear.  No one who really believed in Scripture would do X - in this case it seems go to a political protest.  

[Scarlett]

13 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

 

Maybe, though I tend to think that posting verses like that is actually kind of aggressive - the implication is that you know what they mean, and the meaning is clear.  No one who really believed in Scripture would do X - in this case it seems go to a political protest.  

I agree that posting Bible vs can be aggressive and it does sound like the case in the OP.  The only way it would not be aggressive if the vs was posted as comfort in some way.  

Editing to add....or in a lighthearted fun manner between people who know they both believe the same thing....otherwise if it was an actual discussion I think JUST posting the vs is more of an 'in your face' move.

[Carol in Cal.]

To me the main point is that this woman abused her authority and then reacted like a total nut job when called on it.  I can see why she was upset given that she was called a name (cyberbully) to her face, but in that position her responsibility is to exercise self-control in her response and look for the grain of truth in the correction.  And her presenting behavior online toward the child was both aggressive and completely inappropriate.  More significantly than that, the initial teaching she did actually misrepresented God.  That is where I would focus in talking with the authorities at church.  That is EXTREMELY serious--a deal breaker.  The stuff afterwards is very bad, but that is the absolute worst.  

Also, I wouldn't expect much sympathy from the authorities on this, since she is the pastor's wife.  (ETA:  Ack, sorry, I see that I was wrong about that.  Leaving this in for clarity.)  In theory that should mean that she sets even higher standards for herself that most laity would, but we already know that that is not the case.  Chances are, unfortunately, that the pastor and elders are not going to want to seem to be ganging up on her; despite the truth being on your side.  I'd get ready to find a new church; you're obviously going to need one.  And I'd figure that at the new church it's more likely than not that a whiff of this will follow you, so you'll need to brace yourself just a bit for a while until people there get to know you.  I would like to be wrong about this paragraph, but I don't think I am.

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Carol in Cal.
accuracy

[ktgrok]

I missed that this is the Pastor's wife. I'd need to know if the pastor himself equates the Constitution with divine scripture, and if so, I'd leave. That's just blasphemy, plain and simple.

[alisoncooks]

1 minute ago, Ktgrok said:

I missed that this is the Pastor's wife. I'd need to know if the pastor himself equates the Constitution with divine scripture, and if so, I'd leave. That's just blasphemy, plain and simple.

Is this woman the pastor's wife? The first post doesn't mention that. Did I miss it?

[Tsuga]

3 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

Is this woman the pastor's wife? The first post doesn't mention that. Did I miss it?

She is a Sunday School teacher.

[Butter]

9 hours ago, Liz CA said:

If she was not joking and some kids misunderstood it, there is more going on than just immaturity or an ill fit for Sunday school. :)

 

Sadly, I know some people who absolutely think God is a Republican and wrote the Constitution.  Flat out.  Also that certain rights named in the Bill of Rights are given to us by God (not the government).

I would go to whoever is over her.  And my kid would not be going to that Sunday School class ever again.

[alisoncooks]

3 minutes ago, Danae said:

 

Some of the early replies started "As a pastor's wife" because the posters replying are or were themselves pastors' wives.  I think that's where the confusion set in.

Thanks. That's how I was reading it, but then I wondered if I missed something. 

So...as  pastor's wife AND a Sunday School teacher, lol...I can't imagine doing anything like the OP described. I mean, weren't there people watching? It seems so odd...

[SKL]

Unless the church has a specific policy about being on social media with minors, I'm not sure that is an issue for a 15yo.  I would consider it a teachable moment for my kid.

As for the limitations on churches telling people how to vote, I am not sure it extends to general comments about what is happening in society or whether or not God was an inspiration to the writers of certain documents.  It is possible this lady has exceeded the bounds, but it's not clear from what OP said.

And I feel kind of uncomfortable with the idea that this 15yo girl was old enough to attend a political rally and old enough to post photos regarding a political position on social media, but she isn't old enough to receive the usual treatment humans receive when they do that.  If I post a political photo on social media for all to see, I am an idiot if I don't expect to see both sides respond.  If my kid posts (assuming she is old enough to have a social media account), she should expect to see both sides respond.  I don't expect her to be insulated from the opinions of her teachers etc. if she puts her political expression out there for all to see.  She needs to understand that her teachers have different opinions and that is OK.

That said, I would advise my kids to strictly limit how much of their personal selves, including political opinions, they put in the public media.  If they want to share with their friends or like-minded individuals, they should do it where nobody else can see - unless they are up for a fight.

[Tsuga]

12 minutes ago, Butter said:

Sadly, I know some people who absolutely think God is a Republican and wrote the Constitution.  Flat out.  Also that certain rights named in the Bill of Rights are given to us by God (not the government).

I would go to whoever is over her.  And my kid would not be going to that Sunday School class ever again.

It does say in the Declaration of Independence that we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and that to secure these ends, governments have been instituted among men. Sorry for the quote fail, Google it for the exact text.

So the bolded, to me, is not so far fetched. It is an outcome of the political philosophy of the time, which was intended to justify the existence of government (namely, the king) as people were asking "well why DO you have the right to take some of this grain after all"?

However, the "governments have been instituted among men" part suggests that the documentation surrounding government was in fact written by men. In other words, the purpose of a government is to secure the rights God gives people.

However, if you continue reading the Declaration of Independence, it goes on to explain why the King's government is an utter failure in that respect, which suggests that just because a government exists, does not mean it is actually serving god.

Just saying, the idea of inalienable rights and God-endowed rights, is a metaphysical belief which is not verifiable. This contrasts with the belief that God, not men, wrote the United States Constitution, which is demonstrably false.

The idea of God being a Republican is just stupid IMO, but still, as a metaphysical belief, my only objection is that the laws of the country prohibit partisan teaching from the pulpit of a 501(c) untaxed organization.

[SKL]

How would you feel if this teacher met this 15yo at the rally as a counter-protester?  Carrying a big sign containing Bible verses?

[Tsuga]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

Unless the church has a specific policy about being on social media with minors, I'm not sure that is an issue for a 15yo.  I would consider it a teachable moment for my kid.

As for the limitations on churches telling people how to vote, I am not sure it extends to general comments about what is happening in society or whether or not God was an inspiration to the writers of certain documents.  It is possible this lady has exceeded the bounds, but it's not clear from what OP said.

 

It extends to all partisan endorsements.

It would not cover the Constitution written by God comments.

As for church policy, I think it should be. 15year olds can't consent. The policy is to protect the church as much as anyone else. They should have such a policy. This situation is a perfect example of why.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, SKL said:

Unless the church has a specific policy about being on social media with minors, I'm not sure that is an issue for a 15yo.  I would consider it a teachable moment for my kid.

As for the limitations on churches telling people how to vote, I am not sure it extends to general comments about what is happening in society or whether or not God was an inspiration to the writers of certain documents.  It is possible this lady has exceeded the bounds, but it's not clear from what OP said.

And I feel kind of uncomfortable with the idea that this 15yo girl was old enough to attend a political rally and old enough to post photos regarding a political position on social media, but she isn't old enough to receive the usual treatment humans receive when they do that.  If I post a political photo on social media for all to see, I am an idiot if I don't expect to see both sides respond.  If my kid posts (assuming she is old enough to have a social media account), she should expect to see both sides respond.  I don't expect her to be insulated from the opinions of her teachers etc. if she puts her political expression out there for all to see.  She needs to understand that her teachers have different opinions and that is OK.

That said, I would advise my kids to strictly limit how much of their personal selves, including political opinions, they put in the public media.  If they want to share with their friends or like-minded individuals, they should do it where nobody else can see - unless they are up for a fight.

I think the problem is this SS teacher is a person in a position of authority over the 15yo.  So it is not reasonable to expect the 15 to 'fight back' with a person in such a position.  

And certainly, the teacher had no business chastising the girl on public social media.  If the girl was doing something morally wrong it should have been addressed in private IMO.  

And the mixing of religion and politics....well, I don't even know what to say about that.