Did you grow up being driven to excel?

[Mabelen]

6 hours ago, Parrothead said:

No, I wasn’t pushed to excel. I was supposed to get good grades, but college was a maybe. I’m in my early 50s. I grew up at a time when my parents did not know what the SAT was or why it was important. I only took the PSAT and the ASVAB in school because all students in a particular grade were required to take it.  I’m an early Gen-Xer that could get a good job with just a high school diploma. Today, aside from the potential of dying, I can’t get gainful employment because I’ve still not completed my BA. 

Yes. That was the case for me too. My parents were proud of me for getting good grades in high school but expected me to get a job right after, no college. I had to plead my case to go to college. In their defense, they were on board once they got used to the idea. Luckily for me, the system in Spain was more forgiving for first gen students. All you had to do was to graduate high school and take the National university entrance exam at the end of the last year. I still had to navigate everything by myself but it was not as complex as it is here.

[fairfarmhand]

On 4/8/2018 at 6:37 AM, Quill said:

No. There was pressure in my family but it was it wasn’t about cultivating excellence; it was more about not making the family look bad and not being a “problem.” My parents did not have lofty goals about me becoming something; girls were meant to be good Christian mothers and helpmeets. I think it was to my detriment. I was very aimless in high school and had no appreciation for my abilities. I wasn’t even aware that I was a quick learner until I was in my late 20s and I took a photography course. 

DH’s parents had a healthy approach to encouraging the kids to excel without being pressuring overlords. Most of them had LDs which was not understood at the time (the youngest child was the only one a teacher identified correctly with dyslexia), so academics was not a major strength for any of them, but FIL was a highly can-do kind of guy. He had a specific saying: “‘Can’t’ is not a word!” :) And MIL was always devising ways to try and improve everyone; she did things like “word-of-the-day” at the dinnertable and bought colts for the boys to train so they would have something useful to do. :) 

I totally identify with this. So much of being pushed was about external religious motivation to press kids into a mold that their gender forced. And if you were interested in a career that you couldn't train for in a conservative Christian school? Too bad. Find something that these conservative schools can teach you. 

I never considered doing anything other than maybe teaching school because of this pressure. 

College didn't work out for me, but I am glad I didn't waste it on a teaching degree. I would have hated it. Particularly after homeschooling! 

I think now, if I were to go back to college it would be for communications, particularly online marketing and writing. I love it.

[Jenny in Florida]

No, not really. And it's something I've wondered about for many years.

I was a very bright kid. Like, recruited for a special magnet elementary school program, IQ tested more than once because more than one school district wanted the credit (and financial bonus from the state) for "identifying" a highly gifted student, achieving the highest IQ score the elementary school I attended had seen up to that point. Really bright. (And, lest anyone feel put off by my being up front about that stuff, let me briefly explain that I struggled for years to accept and understand this aspect of myself and didn't really manage to stop treating it like some weird, guilty secret or something I had to downplay until I found myself raising two highly/profoundly gifted kids. It's not like I normally lead with this in general conversation, but I'm putting it out there for context in this particular conversation.)

Looking back now, though, it really seems almost like my parents tried to undercut the possibility that I might genuinely excel. Instead of sending me to the magnet school, they opted to move out of that district and into a generic suburban elementary school with a "gifted program" that consisted of a multi-grade one-hour per week pull-out enrichment class that was so poorly funded and organized that we never kept the same teacher for more than a year. 

Academically, the assumption was that, because I was smart, I would "do fine." Neither of my parents seemed interested in making sure I did homework or studied or paid any attention to school outside of actual classroom hours. I was capable enough not to need to work for above average grades through elementary and middle school. And they didn't seem to care much whether those grades were A's or B's or whether I actually learned anything or felt engaged. 

The only involvement I remember from either of my parents was that my mother would drive carpools for a couple of school field trips per year and she brought cupcakes for some elementary school class parties. Her contributions were popular, because she brought the fancy cupcakes from the grocery store bakery instead of baking from scratch. This was because she had no interest in baking and usually ran into the grocery store the morning of the party, but in those days, it was considered a novelty and a treat.

There was a general expectation that I would "go to college," but I don't remember either of my parents taking any interest in helping me figure out what that would look like or how I would prepare for it. 

This is especially odd to me, because my father taught and was the head of his department at a community college. So it's not like they had no context for providing input or assistance.

Throughout middle and high school, I was left to choose my own classes and electives. When I was not able to fit my preferred foreign language -- French -- into my high school schedule, I don't remember either parent seeming especially interested or concerned, let alone picking up the phone to try and resolve the situation. Instead, I was encouraged to just settle for Spanish and not worry about it. As I moved along through school, I got more and more bored and frustrated. Beyond encouragement to "be patient" because things would "get better" at whatever the next stage was, my parents did nothing to help me manage the situation. (In elementary school, I was assured things would "get better" in middle school, because I would be allowed a little more freedom and control over what classes I took. When I was still unhappy in middle school, in part because the electives I chose almost never actually happened when there weren't enough other kids interested to fill a class, I was encouraged to hang on for high school, because that would be where things would really open up and I would be able to really explore and shine.)

By the time I was in high school, I started dabbling in various kinds of trouble, including skipping school as often as I could get away with it. When my grades reflected the lack of effort (or even attendance) and my guidance counselor (whom I don't think I had ever met prior to that) called me into his office, his lecture began with a recitation of the scores from my latest standardized test. He then looked at me, sighed heavily and asked, with a wave at my most recent report card, "So, why?" (My parents were not present for that meeting, and I don't remember discussing it with them.)

Not one person -- teacher, parent, administrator, guidance counselor -- ever suggested that I might have access to more advanced classes. No one ever spoke to me about choosing or applying for college. When I expressed how miserable and bored I was in school, I was essentially told to suck it up and endure until graduation. After which, it was implied, things would "get better," but no one ever had anything concrete to say about why or how that might be true. And the whole "it will get better" narrative wasn't really feeling too likely by that point.

Eventually, I created such a mess that I was not going to be allowed to graduate with my class. I did my own research and discovered that I could earn a "proficiency" certificate that would be the legal equivalent of a high school diploma. When I made the appointment to talk with the school guidance counselor about registering, he didn't recognize the name of the exam. I had to bring in the information to show him.

My parents did help me get registered for community college. I don't remember either of them initiating conversations about planning for transfer to a four-year university. I was 16 and left to kind of figure it out. (I didn't. I got married and made yet more messes in my life and didn't return to college until a few years later.)

With the exception of two years of Girl Scouts, about six months each of piano and horseback riding lessons and a stop-motion animation class that met for a few Saturday mornings (a subject, by the way, in which I don't remember expressing any actual interest), I had no regular extracurriculars until I signed myself up for choir and drama in junior high school.

As a kid, I loved movies, especially musicals. I would spend hours in my room playing soundtrack records and acting out songs and scenes in the mirror. I was the weird kid who begged to stay up late to watch the Tony Award broadcast. Although we lived within an hour's drive of a major city that regularly hosted touring productions of Broadway shows, the only one I remember being taken to was Annie when it came through on its first national tour. 

When I decided in junior high school to audition for the annual musical, my mother actually initiated more than one conversation that I now recognize were intended to prevent me from getting my hopes "too high." (P.S. - Although I never got anything like a starring role, I did get cast named roles in both shows I auditioned for.)

There was a community theatre in our town. One of my close friends did several shows there. At no point did my parents so much as suggest that I try to get involved, let alone lift a finger to get information about how I could do so. Nor did they ever suggest or seek out opportunities for me to take any lessons that might have helped me plug into the performing arts community . . .

 

I'm sorry. This got long and whiny. It's just that I really can't imagine having a kid like I was and not being affirmatively supportive. I know there are all kinds of horror stories about kids who are pushed to meet unreasonable expectations. And of course that is not healthy. But I think there has to be some kind of middle ground. I've struggled for years to understand why no one seemed to care enough to offer me any guidance, even when I asked for help, why I was just kind of allowed to drift along getting more and more unhappy. 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

No, and I wish I would have been, honestly.  My parents never really even asked if I had homework and they didn't seem to pay attention to my grades at all.  I was on my own.  Which is tough to figure out at 5 or 6 or 7, right?  Both of my parents dropped out of high school and my mom got married at 16 and had me at 17.  

[Bluegoat]

I do think it was really typically when I was growing up for kids to be left alone a lot more.  My parents didn't really get all that involved in things like my course selection, or university application.  Lots of kids did one or no activities.  Parents wanted good marks if the kid was bright, but that was about it.

There was a lot more expectation that you be self-motivated and advocate for your own interests.  I was in a pretty high performing group of kids, in the enrichment program and honours track in school, but most parents were still operating that way.

It seemed different when my youngest sister was at school - I was born in 76, she was 88.

[J-rap]

36 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

I do think it was really typically when I was growing up for kids to be left alone a lot more.  My parents didn't really get all that involved in things like my course selection, or university application.  Lots of kids did one or no activities.  Parents wanted good marks if the kid was bright, but that was about it.

There was a lot more expectation that you be self-motivated and advocate for your own interests.  I was in a pretty high performing group of kids, in the enrichment program and honours track in school, but most parents were still operating that way.

It seemed different when my youngest sister was at school - I was born in 76, she was 88.

You know, I think you're right.  (And I was born in the 60's!)  I think it was more typical in those days for parents to trust that the general system would be enough to move their kids along and get their kids where they needed to be, and they also had a simple faith in their children's natural abilities and self-motivation.  I'm pretty sure it never even occurred to my parents to jump in and become more hands-on and feel more of a responsibility to push.  But, when I think of my peers, I don't really remember any of their parents doing that either.  My peers tended to be quite bright, involved with school, school leaders, etc.  

Then of course there's my dh's family that thrived on external challenge, with parents who quizzed them at the dinner table and spoke with them in other languages  and continually encouraged them to reach far.  (But they all seemed to love it!)

[SKL]

13 hours ago, Jenny in Florida said:

No, not really. And it's something I've wondered about for many years.

I was a very bright kid. Like, recruited for a special magnet elementary school program, IQ tested more than once because more than one school district wanted the credit (and financial bonus from the state) for "identifying" a highly gifted student, achieving the highest IQ score the elementary school I attended had seen up to that point. Really bright. (And, lest anyone feel put off by my being up front about that stuff, let me briefly explain that I struggled for years to accept and understand this aspect of myself and didn't really manage to stop treating it like some weird, guilty secret or something I had to downplay until I found myself raising two highly/profoundly gifted kids. It's not like I normally lead with this in general conversation, but I'm putting it out there for context in this particular conversation.)

Looking back now, though, it really seems almost like my parents tried to undercut the possibility that I might genuinely excel. Instead of sending me to the magnet school, they opted to move out of that district and into a generic suburban elementary school with a "gifted program" that consisted of a multi-grade one-hour per week pull-out enrichment class that was so poorly funded and organized that we never kept the same teacher for more than a year. 

Academically, the assumption was that, because I was smart, I would "do fine." Neither of my parents seemed interested in making sure I did homework or studied or paid any attention to school outside of actual classroom hours. I was capable enough not to need to work for above average grades through elementary and middle school. And they didn't seem to care much whether those grades were A's or B's or whether I actually learned anything or felt engaged. 

The only involvement I remember from either of my parents was that my mother would drive carpools for a couple of school field trips per year and she brought cupcakes for some elementary school class parties. Her contributions were popular, because she brought the fancy cupcakes from the grocery store bakery instead of baking from scratch. This was because she had no interest in baking and usually ran into the grocery store the morning of the party, but in those days, it was considered a novelty and a treat.

There was a general expectation that I would "go to college," but I don't remember either of my parents taking any interest in helping me figure out what that would look like or how I would prepare for it. 

This is especially odd to me, because my father taught and was the head of his department at a community college. So it's not like they had no context for providing input or assistance.

Throughout middle and high school, I was left to choose my own classes and electives. When I was not able to fit my preferred foreign language -- French -- into my high school schedule, I don't remember either parent seeming especially interested or concerned, let alone picking up the phone to try and resolve the situation. Instead, I was encouraged to just settle for Spanish and not worry about it. As I moved along through school, I got more and more bored and frustrated. Beyond encouragement to "be patient" because things would "get better" at whatever the next stage was, my parents did nothing to help me manage the situation. (In elementary school, I was assured things would "get better" in middle school, because I would be allowed a little more freedom and control over what classes I took. When I was still unhappy in middle school, in part because the electives I chose almost never actually happened when there weren't enough other kids interested to fill a class, I was encouraged to hang on for high school, because that would be where things would really open up and I would be able to really explore and shine.)

By the time I was in high school, I started dabbling in various kinds of trouble, including skipping school as often as I could get away with it. When my grades reflected the lack of effort (or even attendance) and my guidance counselor (whom I don't think I had ever met prior to that) called me into his office, his lecture began with a recitation of the scores from my latest standardized test. He then looked at me, sighed heavily and asked, with a wave at my most recent report card, "So, why?" (My parents were not present for that meeting, and I don't remember discussing it with them.)

Not one person -- teacher, parent, administrator, guidance counselor -- ever suggested that I might have access to more advanced classes. No one ever spoke to me about choosing or applying for college. When I expressed how miserable and bored I was in school, I was essentially told to suck it up and endure until graduation. After which, it was implied, things would "get better," but no one ever had anything concrete to say about why or how that might be true. And the whole "it will get better" narrative wasn't really feeling too likely by that point.

Eventually, I created such a mess that I was not going to be allowed to graduate with my class. I did my own research and discovered that I could earn a "proficiency" certificate that would be the legal equivalent of a high school diploma. When I made the appointment to talk with the school guidance counselor about registering, he didn't recognize the name of the exam. I had to bring in the information to show him.

My parents did help me get registered for community college. I don't remember either of them initiating conversations about planning for transfer to a four-year university. I was 16 and left to kind of figure it out. (I didn't. I got married and made yet more messes in my life and didn't return to college until a few years later.)

With the exception of two years of Girl Scouts, about six months each of piano and horseback riding lessons and a stop-motion animation class that met for a few Saturday mornings (a subject, by the way, in which I don't remember expressing any actual interest), I had no regular extracurriculars until I signed myself up for choir and drama in junior high school.

As a kid, I loved movies, especially musicals. I would spend hours in my room playing soundtrack records and acting out songs and scenes in the mirror. I was the weird kid who begged to stay up late to watch the Tony Award broadcast. Although we lived within an hour's drive of a major city that regularly hosted touring productions of Broadway shows, the only one I remember being taken to was Annie when it came through on its first national tour. 

When I decided in junior high school to audition for the annual musical, my mother actually initiated more than one conversation that I now recognize were intended to prevent me from getting my hopes "too high." (P.S. - Although I never got anything like a starring role, I did get cast named roles in both shows I auditioned for.)

There was a community theatre in our town. One of my close friends did several shows there. At no point did my parents so much as suggest that I try to get involved, let alone lift a finger to get information about how I could do so. Nor did they ever suggest or seek out opportunities for me to take any lessons that might have helped me plug into the performing arts community . . .

 

I'm sorry. This got long and whiny. It's just that I really can't imagine having a kid like I was and not being affirmatively supportive. I know there are all kinds of horror stories about kids who are pushed to meet unreasonable expectations. And of course that is not healthy. But I think there has to be some kind of middle ground. I've struggled for years to understand why no one seemed to care enough to offer me any guidance, even when I asked for help, why I was just kind of allowed to drift along getting more and more unhappy. 

 

I don't know how old you are, but this sounds like your parents were more involved than average based on my childhood days.  I have a similar story, only my folks did even less, but they still did more than average.  School was supposed to be designed so kids could handle it themselves.  The idea that parents got involved in choosing high school classes would never cross my mind.

When I was a kid, there was a general concern that kids would "get a big head" if they thought they were smarter than others.  I actually never knew that I was accelerated until I accidentally found out in 7th grade that I was the youngest in my class.

Also, the options for advanced kids were much more limited back then.  Most schools wouldn't accelerate at all, no matter what.  I also think it was pretty normal for kids to dislike / hate school.  Nearly everyone in my family did.  :P

Compared to my childhood, my parents came from a time when it was more common to quit school at 16 than to graduate from high school.  Most of their friends and family (including themselves) didn't graduate.  So it would be a considerable jump to go from "maybe this smart kid will finish high school" to "let's figure out how to customize high school for our kid."

[SKL]

Reading these posts has me wondering if my kid is going to resent me someday for letting her get off easy.  She is capable of more, but she is also the most stubborn person I know, and she does not want to do anything that wasn't her idea first.  I got tired of asking her to do challenge work.  I got her accelerated in school and she has plenty of books and science-y toys.  But I hold her accountable for not making the most of the opportunities she has.  And I hold myself accountable for not making the most of opportunities I had as a kid.  I could have read more, taken more math and science in high school, applied to better colleges that might have offered aid.  But then again - I don't regret the decisions I made instead.  I guess I should not worry whether or not my kid will regret hers.

[Carol in Cal.]

2 hours ago, J-rap said:

You know, I think you're right.  (And I was born in the 60's!)  I think it was more typical in those days for parents to trust that the general system would be enough to move their kids along and get their kids where they needed to be, and they also had a simple faith in their children's natural abilities and self-motivation.  I'm pretty sure it never even occurred to my parents to jump in and become more hands-on and feel more of a responsibility to push.  

I think so, too.  (And was born in the late 50s.)

But also, they were from back when the schools taught a lot more things.  When I was in school, everyone had to take vocal music and PE,  which included teaching sports skills and playing sports games, and participate in drama.  All the teachers knew grammar and played the piano (there was one in every classroom, routinely)--those were just basic skills to them.  And if you wanted to participate in after school sports they were available on site with the regular faculty at no extra charge--you just took a later city bus home or your parents picked you up later.  Musical instrument classes were available during the school day on a pull out basis for a small fee.  Each class learned library skills and visited the school library weekly.  

My parents had all that plus they lived within walking distance of their schools, and went home for a hot lunch every day.  And they had foreign language and art/shop/sewing/cooking classes available during the school days, too.  So they really didn't realize how deficient my education was compared to theirs, and couldn't even imagine how it is now, with nothing but 'the basics' unless you drive your kids all over creation to 'after school classes'.