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How much longer is the "all guys grow beards" thing going to last?


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My ds has shaved twice in his lifetime. He has a full beard and keeps  it trimmed. It balances out the long hair. Maybe when everyone quits getting bent out of shape about men with long hair, men will shave. ;) No, I know men who are bald with beards. 

For preference, I don't mind a beard on a man, when it gets ZZ top long, then *I* don't find it appealing. 

Ds kind of found a "beard mentor" who helped him pick out product and suggested trimming methods. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, marbel said:

 

Maybe I don't understand the way people use "judgment" and "judging" now. Because I see people expressing an opinion about something, and then saying they aren't making a judgment... but they are.  

Yeah, I don't get that. In most settings, effeminate is not a compliment; so it's a negative thing being thought/said about a man, but somehow it's not a judgement? 

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3 hours ago, marbel said:

Well, wait. You are judging it. You are judging it as effeminate.  That doesn't mean it's wrong to do that.  And I'm not implying that you would treat someone differently (in a negative way) because they don't have a beard.  But, you are making a judgment about the lack of beard.

I'm not arguing with you, really.  

Maybe I don't understand the way people use "judgment" and "judging" now. Because I see people expressing an opinion about something, and then saying they aren't making a judgment... but they are.  

 

48 minutes ago, hornblower said:

Yeah, I don't get that. In most settings, effeminate is not a compliment; so it's a negative thing being thought/said about a man, but somehow it's not a judgement? 

I'm awkward and probably aspie. I was just trying to say that I think that men without beard look feminine. Maybe my word choice was wrong. I'm sorry if it was. I wasn't trying to say anything negative in particular and that's what I was trying to express by saying that I wasn't judging.

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8 minutes ago, rose said:

 

I'm awkward and probably aspie. I was just trying to say that I think that men without beard look feminine. Maybe my word choice was wrong. I'm sorry if it was. I wasn't trying to say anything negative in particular and that's what I was trying to express by saying that I wasn't judging.

Well, I don't see that there is anything to apologize for. :-)  I should have separated my thoughts from your comment more.  (I can be awkward too). I was really using your post as a jumping-off point to mention something I have seen a lot, here on the boards in general and IRL.  Maybe even in another post on this thread, after you.

Expressing an opinion is a form of judgment. I don't like meatballs - that's a judgment on my part. That doesn't mean I think less of people who like meatballs.  (I'm making meatballs for dinner tonight which is why that example came to mind.)   

I'm just not sure when/how we (general we) came to see expressing an opinion as necessarily being judgmental in a negative way.  We make judgments about people (and things) all the time.  

 

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fwiw, personally, in many ways I think it's a compliment because I detest the whole 'real men' macho bs, and I believe being like a woman is a GOOD thing, but the reality is that society disagrees & calling a man's manhood into question is one of those things that is pretty universally recognized as slur, isn't it? 

 btw, there are plenty of real normal men who literally cannot grow a beard. They often have little chest & back hair. They're just not hairy. I don't think it automatically makes them feminine but that's a judgement each of us makes, I guess.

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38 minutes ago, rose said:

 

I'm awkward and probably aspie. I was just trying to say that I think that men without beard look feminine. Maybe my word choice was wrong. I'm sorry if it was. I wasn't trying to say anything negative in particular and that's what I was trying to express by saying that I wasn't judging.

It is okay to judge of you want. I think the objection is you want to say you're not judging. Effeminate and feminine are not things many men want to be. If someone said I was masculine for working outside the home, that's judging. It's okay though. You are entitled to an opinion.

As another poster did, sticking "to me" on the end is a better way to soften the blow. It means "I am totally judging but I realize I am not objectively right about it."

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3 hours ago, TechWife said:

I do know a few typical men with beards. But, I have noticed a weird trend. There is a small segment of homeschoolers around here that are "reformed," whether they be Baptist, Presbyterian, or generic, non-denominational. Among these men, they are clean shaven until they marry, then they grow a beard. It seems very Amish to me. I don't know any of them well enough to ask them if they grew a beard because they married or if they just decided to grow one. Does anyone else see this in their area?

Men around here griw beards when they want a promotion but look too junior.

I'm thinking of dying my hair gray.

Also, some women prefer beards so that may play into it.

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4 hours ago, TechWife said:

I do know a few typical men with beards. But, I have noticed a weird trend. There is a small segment of homeschoolers around here that are "reformed," whether they be Baptist, Presbyterian, or generic, non-denominational. Among these men, they are clean shaven until they marry, then they grow a beard. It seems very Amish to me. I don't know any of them well enough to ask them if they grew a beard because they married or if they just decided to grow one. Does anyone else see this in their area?

 

Gotta admit I stopped shaving my legs more than once in a blue moon after I got married.....  

But not shaving legs is laziess, GROWING a beard isn't, right? They have to groom it, shape it, clean it.   Hopefully.

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13 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Not to mention the fact that the practice originated in porn culture...

I had no idea this was even a thing (beyond just a regular "bikini trim") until I read an article that interviewed a bunch of college guys, many of whom said they thought pubic hair on a woman was "totally disgusting" and they would not even consider having sex with a girl who wasn't clean-shaven.  I find it incredibly creepy that porn has convinced so many men that the natural bodies of sexually mature women are "disgusting" to the extent that they can only be turned on if their partner's genitals look like a 12 year old girl.

 

I agree with you, but, to be fair.... most women have been shaving their armpits far longer than most women have been removing pubic hair, even women who don't go out in sleeveless clothing.  I think those guys would also express disgust at hairy women armpits.  And women remove facial hair.  Heck, I've had my eyebrows waxes, and I liked the effect.   Women and body hair is all tied up with ideas about hygiene, and femininity. And of course there is a marketing / business angle too.

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11 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

It is so individual, it’s true.  I dislike the connotation that one must change their default preference or appearance to match a socially acceptable fashion, especially when it comes to a ascribed trait and not something they actively chose to have.  That’s my issue with the grooming trends - when it becomes another way to pressure or belittle someone who doesn’t conform.

 

A naturally hairy woman or naturally hairless man who doesn’t want to change that shouldn’t be pressured or compelled to, or slighted when they don’t.

 

You know what I'd really like to see an end to?  Earring as standard.  I don't mind earrings  but I wish people didn't ask my kid when she's getting pierced. What a bizarre question! Except it isn't, because in our culture women are assumed to have piercings.

I'd prefer a world where everyone was free to wear as much facial / body jewelry as they like, but it wasn't the DEFAULT that all women get pierced.   

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8 minutes ago, Orpington said:

 

I agree with you, but, to be fair.... most women have been shaving their armpits far longer than most women have been removing pubic hair, even women who don't go out in sleeveless clothing.  I think those guys would also express disgust at hairy women armpits.  And women remove facial hair.  Heck, I've had my eyebrows waxes, and I liked the effect.   Women and body hair is all tied up with ideas about hygiene, and femininity. And of course there is a marketing / business angle too.

Most American women. Shaving armpits was not common in Europe until about the 90s, when younger women started doing it, and it's still less common there than it is here. Removing pubic hair is pretty uncommon in Europe, so apparently European men do not need their partners to look like 12 year olds in order to enjoy sex.

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My DH has always had facial hair, except for one Christmas when he shaved it all off. It looked weird! He looks like some kind of imposter with no facial hair. I don’t like it. 

At present he has a goatee/skinny beard. I don’t know if that has a name. But it’s like a goatee with a thin beard edging along the jaw. 

I do think DS is more handsome when he’s clean-shaven, though. 

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36 minutes ago, OKBud said:

<snip>

How is "when are men going to stop having beards?"  different than "when are you going to get her ears pierced?"

They are pretty different.

"When are men going to stop having beards?" is a general question and not aimed at a particular man.  "When are you going to get her ears pierced?" is a specific question asked of a specific person about another specific person.

A better equivalent would be someone coming up to me and asking "When is your husband going to shave his beard?"

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On 4/6/2018 at 1:34 PM, 6packofun said:

Women have to be hairless down there?  LOL  I didn't realize so-called independent women were still bowing to the porn industry and the men who run it or get their preferences from it.

Anyway, another great thing about marriage.  Only one other person to please.  And my dh wears facial hair--and has for quite a while--because we both like it.  :)

Um yeah I was wondered where one would get the idea that hairless was fashionable.  I thought maybe those weird fashion, bordering on porn, mags? 

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2 hours ago, Orpington said:

 

You know what I'd really like to see an end to?  Earring as standard.  I don't mind earrings  but I wish people didn't ask my kid when she's getting pierced. What a bizarre question! Except it isn't, because in our culture women are assumed to have piercings.

I'd prefer a world where everyone was free to wear as much facial / body jewelry as they like, but it wasn't the DEFAULT that all women get pierced.   

I agree!  Along those lines, my son wanted to get his ears pierced.  So far nobody has given him flack for it thankfully. 

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I don't mind beards on others of any length. I prefer my husband with a neat, short, trimmed beard. For a while he was growing it out more bushy and I didn't like it, but hey, it's his body. He wasn't thrilled when I cut my hair either, but knew enough not to say so, lol. Thankfully, he has gone back to trimming his beard :)

 

As for tea room carpeting, I do some edging to keep things contained, and in the summer may trim things up so it's more berber than shag, but that's it. Hairless is a no go here. I've tried it, it was itchy, I got rashes, and besides, I'm not ashamed to be a grown woman. 

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As long as they don’t have those nasty civil war pork chop side burns.  I can’t stand it when a man is clean shaven except for huge side burns.  

And I don’t like a mustache only.  I find it incredibly ugly on a man.  There have been a few very attractive actors in roles where their character has only a mustache (roles from a different time period), and those attractive actors looked awful with just a mustache.  

I don’t like a long scraggly beard on a man if it looks like he’s about to pull out a spoon and play it on his leg while someone accompanies him with a banjo.  

But a well kept beard at most lengths is fine to me.  My dh has had a beard the whole time I’ve known him.  He’s shaved a few times, but he doesn’t have the strongest chin, so I don’t like it when he shaves.  The beard gives him a stronger looking chin.  He also will go from clean shaven to full beard in about 60 seconds, so trying to keep clean shaven is a huge pain for him.  He’d had to shave twice a day.  Too much of a bother.  

My dad had a beard about half the time when I was growing up; usually a beard in the winter and clean shaven in the summer.

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5 hours ago, hornblower said:

fwiw, personally, in many ways I think it's a compliment because I detest the whole 'real men' macho bs, and I believe being like a woman is a GOOD thing, but the reality is that society disagrees & calling a man's manhood into question is one of those things that is pretty universally recognized as slur, isn't it? 

 btw, there are plenty of real normal men who literally cannot grow a beard. They often have little chest & back hair. They're just not hairy. I don't think it automatically makes them feminine but that's a judgement each of us makes, I guess.

what kind of woman would that be?

 

the kind who were skimpy stuff and boob jobs to attract male attention?   (as opposed to being in  a hot climate and they're just trying to stay cool - and yes, there is a difference.)

the "poor little old me, I just can't do it with out a manly man" females? (even if he beats it out of her and her children?)

 

 

(I prefer an actual competent adult - who come in both the male and female variety. )

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7 hours ago, Garga said:

As long as they don’t have those nasty civil war pork chop side burns.  I can’t stand it when a man is clean shaven except for huge side burns.  

And I don’t like a mustache only.  I find it incredibly ugly on a man.  There have been a few very attractive actors in roles where their character has only a mustache (roles from a different time period), and those attractive actors looked awful with just a mustache.  

I don’t like a long scraggly beard on a man if it looks like he’s about to pull out a spoon and play it on his leg while someone accompanies him with a banjo.  

But a well kept beard at most lengths is fine to me.  My dh has had a beard the whole time I’ve known him.  He’s shaved a few times, but he doesn’t have the strongest chin, so I don’t like it when he shaves.  The beard gives him a stronger looking chin.  He also will go from clean shaven to full beard in about 60 seconds, so trying to keep clean shaven is a huge pain for him.  He’d had to shave twice a day.  Too much of a bother.  

My dad had a beard about half the time when I was growing up; usually a beard in the winter and clean shaven in the summer.

so you don't like tom selleck?  he's always had a mustache.

I remember the long side-burns from the 70's.  eye roll. men's hair fashions change just like women's do.

the closest dh ever came was a two week vacation where he refused to shave.  at least it did get past the scratchy stage. . . . . ds's is closely trimmed, not long.

Edited by gardenmom5
eta: oops, I meant 70's, 70's - NOT 90's. runaway . . .
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6 hours ago, rose said:

 

I'm awkward and probably aspie. I was just trying to say that I think that men without beard look feminine. Maybe my word choice was wrong. I'm sorry if it was. I wasn't trying to say anything negative in particular and that's what I was trying to express by saying that I wasn't judging.

I think I understood what you meant. Effeminate isn’t a compliment, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be an insult either or have a negative connotation. 

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11 hours ago, marbel said:

Well, wait. You are judging it. You are judging it as effeminate.  That doesn't mean it's wrong to do that.  And I'm not implying that you would treat someone differently (in a negative way) because they don't have a beard.  But, you are making a judgment about the lack of beard.

I'm not arguing with you, really.  

Maybe I don't understand the way people use "judgment" and "judging" now. Because I see people expressing an opinion about something, and then saying they aren't making a judgment... but they are.  

I think when people say that they mean they are judging, but without snobbery.

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1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

so you don't like tom selleck?  he's always had a mustache.

I remember the long side-burns from the 90's.  eye roll. men's hair fashions change just like women's do.

the closest dh ever came was a two week vacation where he refused to shave.  at least it did get past the scratchy stage. . . . . ds's is closely trimmed, not long.

No, I don't like Mustache Tom Selleck.  It's a person preference, obviously, but I find a mustache on a man to be a complete turn off.  I think Tom Selleck looks very handsome without a mustache.  But with--not in the slightest.  

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6 hours ago, Garga said:

No, I don't like Mustache Tom Selleck.  It's a person preference, obviously, but I find a mustache on a man to be a complete turn off.  I think Tom Selleck looks very handsome without a mustache.  But with--not in the slightest.  

I don't remember him without it..

 

I'm glad dh doesn't have one because they tickle.  

tonight ds said he'd never do "just" a 'stache becasue he doens't like the physical resemblance to my brother.

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Beards seem to have been the trend here for a few years now.  Some people always had them of course, but they have become far more common, especially among younger men.  It started with hipsters, but now seems most common among working class younger men.  Which makes me wonder if it might be longer lived, more of a fashion change than a fad.  The hipster bun has already largely gone out of style here, the only ones I see are on people who would have had them before they were trendy.  THe beard seems to have a wider appeal.

Personally, I am in favour, I've strongly preferred facial hair on men since I was 12, which is a bit of a drag as a 12 year old girl.  I am good with a long or short beard, sideburns, really more is probably better.  Moustaches and those beards with no moustache I am not so keen on, most I think can't pull those off.  Goatees can be tricky too, and so can cultivated stubble.

Dh, alas, cannot grow one at all.  IN fact he went to an island for 3 months and tried, and it was so bad he shaved it off before he came home.  Probably a good beard is the one thing that might tempt me to consider running off with someone. (That is a joke, mostly.)

As far though as the question of ladies shaving, I have heard that this is less of a universal trend than it was, and in fact the 70's shag is coming back into style.  It seemed to come into style when I was about 20, and very quickly was considered almost a requirement, and I expect some people will just keep up with it if that's what they've aways done.  But I think it's a pretty invasive trend and it would be better if it just didn't really exist.

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DH is of chinese heritage -- so his "beard" efforts are a bit useless (I know this is not true of all asians). My 20-something ds has both a beard and a man bun....says he has to enjoy his hair while he has it as baldness is on both sides of his family, LOL. He did shave beard and sides of head for his recent job interviews, but grew it back as soon as he landed a position. He looks good with it. But I really don't like the scruffy, haven't shaved in 3 days look. My almost 30yo nephew in Seattle, however, loves that look and keeps it that way all the time.

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On 4/7/2018 at 3:23 PM, OKBud said:

Mm I see.

But would that bother you? Or would you just laugh and be like, " I dunno/who cares?" because it's a totally innocuous question?

 

 I meant the two questions are identical in benign judginess. Ears should be pierced=beards should be shaved. 

 

Well, obviously, beards are OK and earrings are OK. But I see a pretty big difference, in that beards are an adult's choice, and adults have enough time to  know what they want. While ear peircing is  most often done to childrenwho are still forming an identity and ideas of what "should" be done to their bodies.

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32 minutes ago, Bluegoat said:

Beards seem to have been the trend here for a few years now.  Some people always had them of course, but they have become far more common, especially among younger men.  It started with hipsters, but now seems most common among working class younger men.  Which makes me wonder if it might be longer lived, more of a fashion change than a fad.  The hipster bun has already largely gone out of style here, the only ones I see are on people who would have had them before they were trendy.  THe beard seems to have a wider appeal.

Personally, I am in favour, I've strongly preferred facial hair on men since I was 12, which is a bit of a drag as a 12 year old girl.  I am good with a long or short beard, sideburns, really more is probably better.  Moustaches and those beards with no moustache I am not so keen on, most I think can't pull those off.  Goatees can be tricky too, and so can cultivated stubble.

Dh, alas, cannot grow one at all.  IN fact he went to an island for 3 months and tried, and it was so bad he shaved it off before he came home.  Probably a good beard is the one thing that might tempt me to consider running off with someone. (That is a joke, mostly.)

As far though as the question of ladies shaving, I have heard that this is less of a universal trend than it was, and in fact the 70's shag is coming back into style.  It seemed to come into style when I was about 20, and very quickly was considered almost a requirement, and I expect some people will just keep up with it if that's what they've aways done.  But I think it's a pretty invasive trend and it would be better if it just didn't really exist.

 

I think you are right that  beards ares a trend that has become a fashion change. I absolutely do NOT think, if this was a forum 20 years ago, the replies would all be "it's totally normal, most guys have beards, why are you even  asking?" 

My husband has a patchy beard and he doensn't like how it looks.  Good news for me :) since I don't love it. Though I'd never  tell him to shave or anything like that.

As for women and no pubic hair - this a tricky topic to google, let me tell you - but it appears you may be right and there is a small but significant trend of women being a bit bushier now.  My Googling says that it was in about 2000 and an episode of Sex and the City that took waxing / brazilian wax from somewhat popular to standard.

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7 minutes ago, Orpington said:

 

I think you are right that  beards ares a trend that has become a fashion change. I absolutely do NOT think, if this was a forum 20 years ago, the replies would all be "it's totally normal, most guys have beards, why are you even  asking?" 

My husband has a patchy beard and he doensn't like how it looks.  Good news for me :) since I don't love it. Though I'd never  tell him to shave or anything like that.

As for women and no pubic hair - this a tricky topic to google, let me tell you - but it appears you may be right and there is a small but significant trend of women being a bit bushier now.  My Googling says that it was in about 2000 and an episode of Sex and the City that took waxing / brazilian wax from somewhat popular to standard.

 

Beards seem to have long-standing historical shifts in popularity, at least in the west.  They will go in or out of style for a long time, without being an absolute.

Aside from Sex and the City, Gwyneth Paltrow popularized the Brazilian wax.  Though I hear she has given it up.

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Dh has always had some form of beard and mustache since we've been together.  HE usually has just a little patch but he can grow a pretty long full beard, which makes him look a lot like Santa Clause - but he only has one chest hair.  LOL.

ETA: Wow, that picture attached is huge.  IS there a way to make it smaller?

10882384_10205458049001257_5599938153800663778_n.jpg

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40 minutes ago, OKBud said:

The subjects being judged in the same way are different from one another, yes.

 

I don't understand what you're upset about?   Yes, I do have judgements and opinions.   I wish little girls didn't feel pressured to get piecing.  I feel stronger about that than I do my mild observations about whether beards are a hipster /  millennial thing or a more widespread fashion here that will still be around for another 10 years.   

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1 hour ago, Where's Toto? said:

Dh has always had some form of beard and mustache since we've been together.  HE usually has just a little patch but he can grow a pretty long full beard, which makes him look a lot like Santa Clause - but he only has one chest hair.  LOL.

ETA: Wow, that picture attached is huge.  IS there a way to make it smaller?

 

 

I can see the Santa Claus connection but for me, he looks a bit more like Michael Landon.

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15 minutes ago, OKBud said:

I am zero percent upset. I have literally no feelings about any of this. 

 

Edit: oh except for about Gwyneth Paltrow and her lifestyle business LOL. bushness

Fixed that for ya!

Just test driving the new board features...strike through and such...

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I don’t really know any men with beards. Most of the guys I know work with Dh and there is a no facial hair policy. As for the other, well, having been hairless not by choice, I’m okay with not shaving. It took months for the hair on my legs to grow again. I’m happy now to have it. I just wish there was some color. All my hair came back without pigment, although that is changing now. (I’m still waiting for my eyebrows to come back in any color. LOL)

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I am just blown away with this woman's shaving thing. I have never heard of it ever. Nor iof even trimming. If it started in 2000 I guess I was too immersed in small babies to be aware. But I have never missed a "universal trend" in my life. I mean at least to know it existed--for 17 years! Crazy!

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I thought of this thread as I was chatting with ds last night, and his boss this morning (at church.)

ds said he'd never do just a mustache as then the family resemblance to my brother is too great.   (bushy mustache - and he waxes the ends to make them curl.)

his boss (this is the two weeks he will skip shaving- he refers to it as cpa rebellion.  this morning his wife refused to kiss him unless he shaved. she didn't like how scratchy it was.  so, he was clean shaved.)  was admiring ds's beard.  (apparently others of the male staff do).  He even said if he could grow one like it he'd have a beard.  (it's very thick, but short and neatly trimmed and cropped, hardly anything below his bottom lip except that little caterpillar with an arrowhead on top because that's how it grows - chin is full),

- so these are professional males wearing/liking beards. 

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On 4/7/2018 at 2:16 PM, hornblower said:

oooooh, I really dislike piercings on babies....   I'm super judgy about that. 

I have been judgy about that, as well. I really dislike it.

And then I discovered, after a conversation with our pediatrician about how DD12 scars so easily (forming lumpy scar tissue, not just skin marks), that many people of color pierce ears young, because infant earlobes don't scar from the trauma, though scars might form if you wait until older to pierce. It's riskier to pierce past young childhood.

I wish now that we had pierced DD's ears when she was bitty, because we are too fearful to do it now. And she would oh, so much love to have pierced ears.

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This is my brother, the tradesman  ( from the news news ). https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/39534338/fed-up-builder-catches-tool-thief-in-the-act/

3 of my brothers have facial hair like this and one of my sons. the other has thicker facial hair and a little bit longer along with long shoulder length hair, (the academic look of lots of male uni students)

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10 hours ago, OKBud said:

I am so amused by the turn this conversation has taken.  Gwyneth Paltrow is the stone cold worst. It's so funny to know how her mood has shifted re: her bush lol. What a weird thing to know. 

There are lots of little jokes to be had in the Muslim sector about hipster beards. Because they've promoted them since basically the beginning of Islam.

 

You see the same kind of stuff in some Jewish or Christian Orthodox communities.  I remember quite a while ago now seeing a post on beards called "Hipster or Orthodox" where you saw just a tiny pic that had been cropped, and had to guess whether it was a hipster beard or a religious beard.

I find it weird to know about Gwens rug too.  How does she end up talking about this stuff all the time - Jade eggs, steaming her girly bits, etc?  

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