Sarah0000 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Hi. Are there any books on Classical Education, either history of or curriculum outline or personal experience, that does not have an overwhelming element of Christian outlook/studies as the way to becoming a virtuous person? I don't mind reading about how other spiritual ideas meet this goal, such as those held by the Ancients, or how Christianity influenced Classical Education during the Renaissance. It seems like most books have this build up of how the Ancients studied/taught towards the goal of molding a virtuous person with the ability to reason, how medieval Christian philosophers took those ideals and met them with Christianity, and now here's this Classical Education curriculum that has a heavy dose of Christianity. It leaves me, a non-Christian, wondering how other non-Christians do Classical Education. Sorry, I know that's probably not very clear. I hope some one understands what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeAgain Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 We are secular. We use the Well Trained Mind as a backbone and find it suits us well. SWB's personal faith is no secret in the book but it doesn't feel heavy and like an insistence of faith being the only way or that it is a rule that you must have faith to find reason and purpose in a classical trivium. There are plenty of secular/faith neutral resources that we use in place of religious ones that are recommended, so I have to say that I do find classical education (any home education, really!) easier to fit our lifestyle than it was when we first started many years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 Thank you. I've found resources that suit us, some even Christian. What I'm looking for is a broader scope than just the day to day, year to year homeschooling or subject matter resources. I'm looking for philosophy, history, teacher experiences over a span of time, metaphysics of classical education, etc. that doesn't evolve into a discussion of Christianity. For example, I've not read Norms and Nobility but I've read discussions about it. The discussions at least are heavily supported by Christian specific arguments. I do not mind religious arguments, but prefer these to be broader than just one religion, to get directly to the point, to be more anthropological in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostintheCosmos Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 It's dense and a bit of a slog at times, but I got a lot out of Bruce Kimball's Orators and Philosophers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) Not sure if these would appeal or not. They aren't all directly related to CE as education, but philosophically, they lead there. Some may be too Christian (since I am a Christian, I don't read for that filter.) Climbing Parnassus, Poetic Knowledge, Norms and Nobility, Abolition of Man, 4 Hallmarks if a Jesuit Education (obviously Catholic, their concepts of prelection, reflection, active learning, and repetition are helpful in terms of pedagogy.) Ratio Studiorum (this is the original treatise on Jesuit education from 1599. It shows how classes were taught, master teachers involved, etc.) ( There are 6 pages of summation posted at this link: https://academics.lmu.edu/media/lmuacademics/centerforteachingexcellence/documents/The Jesuit Ratio Studiorum of 1599.pdf At that link, there is a link to the Ratio in full. Edited April 7, 2018 by 8FillTheHeart The auto display feature appears to have disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Second Climbing Parnasus. The Latin Centered Curriculum is succinct, offers an outlined plan (in the 2nd ed), and materials can easily be substituted. But it does include Christian/theology studies in its plan, is a not up to date as far as resources go, and is a shadowy substitute to the approach that Climbing Parnasus advocates. Most all classical education is actually neo classical. Check out past threads on what classical Education is and is not and you’ll see its definition is elusive and subjective. My suggestion is to bone up on classical pedagogical philosophy and then pick your poison. Best wishes! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scholastica Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I doubt you’re going to find what you’re looking for since Classical Education was developed by Christians for Christians. Maybe in 15-20 years when the current secular classical homeschoolers have finished their journey they’ll start writing books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, scholastica said: I doubt you’re going to find what you’re looking for since Classical Education was developed by Christians for Christians. Maybe in 15-20 years when the current secular classical homeschoolers have finished their journey they’ll start writing books. Classical education was developed by Greeks for the benefit of the polis, augmented and refined by Romans, and then rediscovered by Christian monastics, gone through several iterations including devout Jesuits and secular humanists who taught Christianity only as a form of cultural inheritance. Currently the main push has been a revival amongst Christian private and home schools. And that is where the research, the publishing, and the support mainly lies. Christianity carried the torch for a long time, and under current neoclassicism is pressing onward in a particular direction, but it can hardly lay absolute claim to Classical Education. 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Above The Rowan Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 I'm secular. I've really enjoyed Climbing Parnassus. I recently read Latin Centered Curriculum and while there is mention of religion, it reads like a more succinct version of CP. They make a pretty good pairing. At least to me, having just started down the rabbit hole of reading about classical ed (beyond TWTM, anyway). I wish there were more options that are written from a truly secular perspective. For now, Climbing Parnassus has been my favourite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah0000 Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 9 hours ago, Targhee said: Classical education was developed by Greeks for the benefit of the polis, augmented and refined by Romans, and then rediscovered by Christian monastics, gone through several iterations including devout Jesuits and secular humanists who taught Christianity only as a form of cultural inheritance. Currently the main push has been a revival amongst Christian private and home schools. And that is where the research, the publishing, and the support mainly lies. Christianity carried the torch for a long time, and under current neoclassicism is pressing onward in a particular direction, but it can hardly lay absolute claim to Classical Education. Who are these secular humanists who taught Christianity only as a form of cultural inheritance? This sounds like what's happening in my house. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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