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Katy

The Austin Bomber is dead

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They can't just lock someone up on anonymous tips and suspicion. They had to investigate and gather enough evidence to get an arrest warrant.

Good god, I never said they should have locked him up! Really? I said it was unfortunate that he was able to do as much damage while being in police’s radar for three weeks. That’s it. From that to your huge leap is really, really outrageous.

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That may be true but I dare you to find a bunch of threads where the first sentiment about Omar Mateen is where did he go wrong and what about his poor family.

 

I dunno...maybe this is why?

 

Before the shooting, he had been investigated for connections to terrorism by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) in 2013 and 2014. During that period, he was placed on the Terrorist Screening Database, but subsequently removed.[1] In a call to 9-1-1 during the shooting, Mateen identified himself as "Mujahideen", "Islamic Soldier", and "Soldier of God";[2][3] and pledged his allegiance multiple times to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of the militant jihadist group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.[4]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Mateen

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Dylan Roof was never charged with terrorism.   

 

Here's an article on what is and isn't considered domestic terrorism.  In general, if you're not acting on behalf of a foreign group or believed to be acting on their behalf (99% Muslim), then you won't be charged with terrorism.  

 

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/02/555170250/what-is-and-isnt-considered-domestic-terrorism

 

Yet strangely they all were charged with crimes that got them the death penalty.

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They can't just lock someone up on anonymous tips and suspicion. They had to investigate and gather enough evidence to get an arrest warrant.

 

I have to admit I have not seen any articles indicating he was on the police radar this whole time.  Considering how quickly they were able to move on him after the Fed Ex incident (which generated a lot of new evidence) and the steps they took to him identify him to make that move, I am skeptical of any claims that he had been identified beforehand.

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so now we’ve got homeschoolers here claiming that there’s no difference really in the way his ‘story’ is being presented, nor his family members, not much wondering if his conservative religious views tainted him,as is always discussed when the killer is you know what, no talk of how/where he may have been radicalized as most do when the person is non-white,, claiming they can sympathize with the situation because he’s part of their culture( and this from a religious person?), and the usual bringing up ‘proof’ that blacks commit more crime blah blah blah, and one person claiming it’s ok to know the perp rather than the victims because anyone can be a victim...

 

And you guys still wonder why homeschoolers are seen as the ignorant kooks??

Edited by Dotwithaperiod
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so now we’ve got homeschoolers here claiming that there’s no difference really in the way his ‘story’ is being presented, nor his family members, not much wondering if his conservative religious views tainted him, no talk of how/where he may have been radicalized as most do when the person is non-white,, claiming they can sympathize with the situation because he’s part of their culture( and this from a religious person?), and the usual bringing up ‘proof’ that blacks commit more crime blah blah blah, and one person claiming it’s ok to know the perp rather than the victims because anyone can be a victim...

 

And you guys still wonder why homeschoolers are seen as the ignorant kooks??

 

The difference is that at this moment there is nothing obvious suggesting he had been radicalized or was part of any movement.  The background interviews are what people are saying about him, and while they are part of the puzzle right now they aren't providing any information that suggests this was something he was planning.  If he was quiet, unassuming, generally kept himself and came from a family that seems to be just a normal family, what do you want people to say?  Law enforcement is investigating and the media is digging but unlike a lot of others he just doesn't have a web presence that tells us anything substantial about him.

 

The bolded is a gross misrepresentation of what has been said in this thread.

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I’d like to point out that I hear (and read) people referring to criminals of all races as “thugs†or “gangsters.†I know some people think it is only applied to blacks, but that hasn’t been my experience. Maybe it is regional?

 

And you don’t seriously think, whatever your beliefs about Trump/Russia, that Americans would congratulate Russian bombers, do you? If you do, how is that not a stereotype or attempt to “other†people from the other end of the political spectrum?

I’ve always heard non whites called thugs and gangsters, if it’s derogatory. If they’re white it’s being discussed in terms of music. The Russia line? It’s called political snark, Hoppy. Just trying to sneak it in, lol. Edited by Dotwithaperiod

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It’s NOT just about the word terrorist! It’s about the resources that accompany and are directed at crimes that are deemed terrorism. We can talk all day about the criminal cases having the same outcomes (I’m not sure that they do) but the label is a way of signaling, as Chris Hayes’ panel discussed VERY well last night, what we value and whose lives matter.

 

Domestic crimes that lack the terrorism label do not receive the same attention or investigative resources. The FBI has way more money and much more manpower allocated to international terror threats than it does the domestic ones that are far more likely/common. We don’t know the possible motives of people like the LV shooter because we have collectively not given these threats of terror their due and put eyeballs in those spaces.

 

I completely reject the idea that the label is meaningless because the impact on things like how this case was investigated are so profound. The idea that the police would assume gang members are building bombs to settle scores (their first leap) or that this man’s Money troubles made him accidentally kill himself with his own bomb (their second leap), was influenced by perceptions of criminality that just don’t match pattern or practice in reality.

 

They looked for ANY excuse to blame the victim before being forced by the facts to look outward. That should bother us all.

Edited by Sneezyone
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It’s NOT just about the word terrorist! It’s about the resources that accompany and are directed at crimes that are deemed terrorism. We can talk all day about the criminal cases having the same outcomes (I’m not sure that they do) but the label is a way of signaling, as Chris Hayes’ panel discussed VERY well last night, what we value and whose lives matter.

 

Domestic crimes that lack the terrorism label do not receive the same attention or investigative resources. The FBI has way more money and much more manpower allocated to international terror threats than it does the domestic ones that are far more likely/common. We don’t know the possible motives of people like the LV shooter because we have collectively not given these threats of terror their due and put eyeballs in those spaces.

 

I completely reject the idea that the label is meaningless because the impact on things like how this case was investigated are so profound. The idea that the police would assume gang members are building bombs to settle scores (their first leap) or that this man’d Money troubles made him accidentally kill himself with his own bomb (their second leap), was influenced by perceptions of criminality that just don’t match pattern or practice in reality.

 

They looked for ANY excuse to blame the victim before being forced by the facts to look outward. That should bother us all.

The FBI will assist with serial killer cases as well and also the ATF sometimes since it was a bombing.

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The FBI will assist with serial killer cases as well and also the ATF sometimes since it was a bombing.

After the fact. They also weren’t brought into this case en mass until the FedEX packages. FBI also has long-term assets that infiltrate organizations and movements deemed worthy of monitoring. Again, it’s a matter of priorities, who matters and who doesn’t.

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It’s NOT just about the word terrorist! It’s about the resources that accompany and are directed at crimes that are deemed terrorism. We can talk all day about the criminal cases having the same outcomes (I’m not sure that they do) but the label is a way of signaling, as Chris Hayes’ panel discussed VERY well last night, what we value and whose lives matter.

 

Domestic crimes that lack the terrorism label do not receive the same attention or investigative resources. The FBI has way more money and much more manpower allocated to international terror threats than it does the domestic ones that are far more likely/common. We don’t know the possible motives of people like the LV shooter because we have collectively not given these threats of terror their due and put eyeballs in those spaces.

 

I completely reject the idea that the label is meaningless because the impact on things like how this case was investigated are so profound. The idea that the police would assume gang members are building bombs to settle scores (their first leap) or that this man’d Money troubles made him accidentally kill himself with his own bomb (their second leap), was influenced by perceptions of criminality that just don’t match pattern or practice in reality.

 

They looked for ANY excuse to blame the victim before being forced by the facts to look outward. That should bother us all.

 

Choosing the LV shooter and this bomber in an attempt to make your case seems odd, and neither seem to have been involved with domestic terror organizations.  I am not sure what proposal you think would have changed that.

 

Regarding the first bombing, everything I have read indicates the Austin police were investigating multiple possible angles.  When a seemingly random act occurs that is SOP in every police department.  The same thing happens with the first discovered victim of every serial killer.  The vast majority of murders are committed by someone the victim knows and is a normal place to start. Considering this seemed to be a targeted attack or an accident (and a significant % of bombing deaths are accidental), jumping to an assumption that it was a terrorist attack would seem absurd,  There is also zero evidence the police missed anything in the initial investigation.  The reality is that serial killers are caught over time as evidence builds/the killer makes mistakes, which is exactly what happened here.

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After the fact. They also weren’t brought into this case en mass until the FedEX packages. FBI also has long-term assets that infiltrate organizations and movements deemed worthy of monitoring. Again, it’s a matter of priorities, who matters and who doesn’t.

They added resources as it progressed but the FBI and ATF were present early on. I don't tend to watch television news so I don't know how the coverage was.

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After the fact. They also weren’t brought into this case en mass until the FedEX packages. FBI also has long-term assets that infiltrate organizations and movements deemed worthy of monitoring. Again, it’s a matter of priorities, who matters and who doesn’t.

 

You mean like this?

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/index.ssf/2017/04/white_supremacist_phillipsburg.html

 

Or this?

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/white-supremacists-arrested-on-hate-crime-conspiracy-charges/

 

Maybe this one?

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125856761

 

Does this count?

https://www.policeone.com/federal-law-enforcement/articles/2032919-Undercover-FBI-agent-infiltrated-anti-police-militia/

 

I don't have time to link the numerous other ones but their have been multiple arrests of people in the sovereign citizen/militia movements over the past couple of years which have been due to undercover operations involving state and federal authorities.

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They added resources as it progressed but the FBI and ATF were present early on. I don't tend to watch television news so I don't know how the coverage was.

 

Correct.  The ATF and FBI were involved when the 2nd and 3rd bombs went off (same day).  A joint reward from all agencies involved was announced the next day.

https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/atf-fbi-and-austin-police-department-announce-reward-50000-re-package-explosions

 

It's significant to note there was a 10-day gap between bombs 1 and 2, while 2 and 3 happened close together.  It is easy to see how the APD would not suspect a serial bomber when there is only 1 bomb planted for over a week.

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They actually got a statement from the President of the Texas Home School Coalition. Now, I have yet to see any press ask the administration at Austin Community College for a statement, regardless of the fact that that was the most recent educational institution Conditt attended.

 

 

 

The community college was indeed asked for a statement, I have seen it in numerous articles. 

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I agree with Chocolate - all indications are that from the beginning, they investigated diligently regardless of the color of the first victim's skin.

 

After the 2nd black person was killed, the narrative began (again) that police and white people don't care when black people are murdered.  It was a reach then and it's a reach now.  It's an agenda being tacked on to a horrible situation.

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The community college was indeed asked for a statement, I have seen it in numerous articles.

My bad, I did not realize that. The (3 or 4) articles I've read so far had not mentioned anything but the fact of his attendance there. But I'll take your word for it.

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As for this guy being a homeschooler and a loner - the words initially used to describe the man's personality could have been used to describe me in my adolescence.  I was never homeschooled.  I do wish people would not jump to conclusions.  It's also similar when someone in the adoption community does something crazy.  Or the foster system etc. etc.  I think the media could be a bit more responsible about this.  They think themselves so intelligent, maybe use a bit of that intelligence to do the right thing once in a while.

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I agree with Chocolate - all indications are that from the beginning, they investigated diligently regardless of the color of the first victim's skin.

 

After the 2nd black person was killed, the narrative began (again) that police and white people don't care when black people are murdered. It was a reach then and it's a reach now. It's an agenda being tacked on to a horrible situation.

When the police are on record, see linked article upthread, apologizing to the man’s family for their initial reaction and the impressions they left behind? Right.

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Choosing the LV shooter and this bomber in an attempt to make your case seems odd, and neither seem to have been involved with domestic terror organizations. I am not sure what proposal you think would have changed that.

 

Regarding the first bombing, everything I have read indicates the Austin police were investigating multiple possible angles. When a seemingly random act occurs that is SOP in every police department. The same thing happens with the first discovered victim of every serial killer. The vast majority of murders are committed by someone the victim knows and is a normal place to start. Considering this seemed to be a targeted attack or an accident (and a significant % of bombing deaths are accidental), jumping to an assumption that it was a terrorist attack would seem absurd, There is also zero evidence the police missed anything in the initial investigation. The reality is that serial killers are caught over time as evidence builds/the killer makes mistakes, which is exactly what happened here.

Which makes perfect sense unless you actually know something about how matters operate in the hood. Bombs aren’t now nor have they ever been the weapon of choice. Too indiscriminate. Edited by Sneezyone

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I haven't read all the posts here but already FB is awash in people making part to whole statements about homeschoolers.  

 

Why can't we all just grieve together? 

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Did I say otherwise? I suggested (see also PP) that this was slow to be id’d as a serial bombing because of who the initial victims were.

I was sitting at chemo with my dad the day the second bomb went off.  They had it on the local news (we're in San Antonio) and while the news was on, the third bomb went off.  The authorities, before the third bomb but after the second, stated they suspected this was the work of a serial bomber and they would confirm that once they had run tests to determine if the same person had made both (and then all three after the third bomb went off).  They literally stated it could be a serial bomber (and confirmed it later that same day or the next) after two bombs.  They didn't say it could be a serial bomber after a single bomb because, well, they hoped/thought it was a single bomb and there would be no more, especially after so much time passed.  Now, national news may not have labeled it a serial bombing very quickly.  I don't know.  But local news and, more importantly, local officials most definitely did as soon as there was a second bomb.

 

Good god, I never said they should have locked him up! Really? I said it was unfortunate that he was able to do as much damage while being in police’s radar for three weeks. That’s it. From that to your huge leap is really, really outrageous.

It doesn't make sense to say he was on their radar for three weeks (at least for being a serial bomber).  The time between the first bomb and his capture was 19 days.  There were many people on the police's radar as they searched for leads.  They had to do the investigation over that 19 days to determine which of those people were innocent and which were possibly guilty and then narrow it down.  It honestly takes time to gather and go through the evidence to determine who their #1 suspect is AND to have enough to arrest that suspect.  Really, when you consider the 10 days between the first and second bombs meaning they didn't realize they were dealing with a serial bomber until 9 days before they got him, the police worked rather fast.

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Which makes perfect sense unless you actually know something about how matters operate in the hood. Bombs aren’t now nor have they ever been the weapon of choice. Too indiscriminate.

 

So how do you start an investigation with a seemingly random target? 

1.) You look into the victim.  And no, this isn't victim blaming.  To find a motive you need to know the victim and why someone may have wanted to take him out (money and affairs are the usual starting point).

 

2.) Bombs aren't generally the MO anywhere, so your "hood" comment is a non-starter.

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I just read our local new coverage on him this morning (we are very far from TX), and I was glad to see the word homeschooling was not mentioned at all. It only said he attended the community college but did not graduate from it.

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So how do you start an investigation with a seemingly random target?

1.) You look into the victim. And no, this isn't victim blaming. To find a motive you need to know the victim and why someone may have wanted to take him out (money and affairs are the usual starting point).

 

2.) Bombs aren't generally the MO anywhere, so your "hood" comment is a non-starter.

Because it is apparently difficult to believe that fat meat’s greasy.

https://www.statesman.com/news/austin-explosions-police-first-focused-drug-case-they-were-wrong/nRUPtY6axdGmUt1siJgrRJ/

Edited by Sneezyone

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It doesn't make sense to say he was on their radar for three weeks (at least for being a serial bomber).  The time between the first bomb and his capture was 19 days.  There were many people on the police's radar as they searched for leads.  They had to do the investigation over that 19 days to determine which of those people were innocent and which were possibly guilty and then narrow it down.  It honestly takes time to gather and go through the evidence to determine who their #1 suspect is AND to have enough to arrest that suspect.  Really, when you consider the 10 days between the first and second bombs meaning they didn't realize they were dealing with a serial bomber until 9 days before they got him, the police worked rather fast.

 

Incredibly fast considering they had him in under 2 days after the 1st Fed Ex bomb.

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My kids have been homeschooled all the way through. It doesn't bother me at all that they identify the bomber as a homeschooler. One, it is true. Two, anything unusual is very likely to be mentioned, and homeschooling is still unusual. Three, the high schools attended by criminals are often mentioned in articles, just as Austin Community College was mentioned in this case along with homeschooling. 

 

True, it is not mentioned as often, but that makes sense. Articles don't have to make a point of stating that someone was not homeschooled, because that is the assumption. 

 

 

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Please point to the mass of evidence that pointed to a different motive.

 

The police were grasping, which is what they do when something seems to have no obvious motive.  It should be noted that when they going with the drug theory they were not accusing the victim of being involved

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I agree with Chocolate - all indications are that from the beginning, they investigated diligently regardless of the color of the first victim's skin.

 

After the 2nd black person was killed, the narrative began (again) that police and white people don't care when black people are murdered. It was a reach then and it's a reach now. It's an agenda being tacked on to a horrible situation.

 

I agree that I don't think Conditt was primarily motivated by racism. When I stated that I suspect he'd been radicalized, I meant on several fronts. Those that ascribe to the extreme right (I'm talking anti-religious, neo-fascist types) don't hate just one aspect of society; they despise all of it. They hate all groups, liberal and conservative, religious and secular, that espouse humanist ideals. That means they hate the single black preganant teenager, but they also hate the pro-life volunteer trying to find housing and health care for her and her baby.

 

In other words, if my suspicion is true (and I fully acknowledge that's all it is now), and Conditt was taken in by one of these groups, his hatred, therefore, his violence, had multiple targets. Whether it's the black teenager, the Hispanic (representing immigrants ), or people just walking and riding bicycles ("Those libtards in Austin are part of what's infecting America"), they all represent something the neo-fascists want to dismantle.

 

Society, itself, and the rest of us.

Edited by Aelwydd
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When the police are on record, see linked article upthread, apologizing to the man’s family for their initial reaction and the impressions they left behind? Right.

 

There is no indication that what they said was racially biased.  As noted, police know that people of all colors have accidental explosions.  Homicide was their first assumption, but they could not prove it right away.  I personally think it was responsible of them to say "they could not rule out the possibility" that it was an accident, 3 days later when they had looked in many places for possible reasons why anyone would have murdered him and found nothing. 

 

I think the apology was a reaction to people getting angry because some people felt it was racial and insensitive.  The police spokesman accepted that it sounded insensitive to the family.  Would you even care about such a statement had it been said about a white victim?  I'm guessing not.

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My kids have been homeschooled all the way through. It doesn't bother me at all that they identify the bomber as a homeschooler. One, it is true. Two, anything unusual is very likely to be mentioned, and homeschooling is still unusual. Three, the high schools attended by criminals are often mentioned in articles, just as Austin Community College was mentioned in this case along with homeschooling.

 

True, it is not mentioned as often, but that makes sense. Articles don't have to make a point of stating that someone was not homeschooled, because that is the assumption.

In this situation, if it’s just stated as a biographical fact about him, I’m ok with that. But in a few articles I’ve read about him, there was a bigger focus on his being homeschooled, which I don’t think is fair to imply that was the cause of his underlying problems, especially since he was a 23-year-old adult.

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I agree that I don't think Conditt was primarily motivated by racism. When I stated that I suspect he'd been radicalized, I meant on several fronts. Those that ascribe to the extreme right (I'm talking anti-religious, neo-fascist types) don't hate just one aspect of society; they despise all of it. They hate all groups, liberal and conservative, religious and secular, that espouse humanist ideals. That means they hate the single black preganant teenager, but they also hate the pro-life volunteer trying to find housing and health care for her and her baby.

 

In other words, if my suspicion is true (and I fully acknowledge that's all it is now), and Conditt was taken in by one of these groups, his hatred, therefore, his violence, had multiple targets. Whether it's the black teenager, the Hispanic (representing immigrants ), or people just walking and riding bicycles ("Those libtards in Austin are part of what's infecting America"), they all represent something the neo-fascists want to dismantle.

 

Society, itself, and the rest of us.

 

Just to be clear, I do not know if Condit was motivated by racism.  Some of the characteristics common among mass murderers are also common among racists.  I am waiting to see if they conclude anything from the hit list they found.

 

The racial argument I'm pushing back against is that law enforcement, the media, and pretty much all of white America treated this case with disinterest and prejudice because the first victim was black.

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I think the reason homeschooling is relevant is because there is a venn diagram overlap between homeschooling & white nationalist extremism/survivalist prepping/wishing for the apocalypse/growing soldiers for the culture wars/seeding hate groups 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/08/christian-home-schooling-dark-side

I expect some journalists will be trying hard to see if there was an overlap for him. 

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I think the reason homeschooling is relevant is because there is a venn diagram overlap between homeschooling & white nationalist extremism/survivalist prepping/wishing for the apocalypse/growing soldiers for the culture wars/seeding hate groups 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/08/christian-home-schooling-dark-side

 

I expect some journalists will be trying hard to see if there was an overlap for him. 

 

Then the journalists should do their investigation first and report later, if that is what they find.

 

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Just to be clear, I do not know if Condit was motivated by racism. Some of the characteristics common among mass murderers are also common among racists. I am waiting to see if they conclude anything from the hit list they found.

 

The racial argument I'm pushing back against is that law enforcement, the media, and pretty much all of white America treated this case with disinterest and prejudice because the first victim was black.

Understood, and thanks for clarifying that. There are so many confounding factors, it's hard to judge the real effects of predjudice on this case right now. The first thing that pops in my head is the Unabomber and how much attention did his initial victim garner in the press? What was the intensity of the response from law enforcement and the public?

 

It's been decades and of course now social media has everything in real time. I think it's definitely something that should be studied once we have a clearer picture.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

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Good god, I never said they should have locked him up! Really? I said it was unfortunate that he was able to do as much damage while being in police’s radar for three weeks. That’s it. From that to your huge leap is really, really outrageous.

 

I inferred from your statements that your implication was that it was some failure by police which let him do so much damage, as if him being "on their radar" meant they could somehow have stopped him, if not for racial bias. That's often how it goes in police procedural TV shows, but not in real life.

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I think the reason homeschooling is relevant is because there is a venn diagram overlap between homeschooling & white nationalist extremism/survivalist prepping/wishing for the apocalypse/growing soldiers for the culture wars/seeding hate groups

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/08/christian-home-schooling-dark-side

 

I expect some journalists will be trying hard to see if there was an overlap for him.

But so far, nothing in this case points to this family or his homeschooling had anything to do with that fringe of homeschoolers. And that fringe is a very small minority of homeschooling. Agree the media needs to do its investigation first before printing their bias (and that’s in regards to homeschooling, race, religion, etc). They’ve forgotten their job is to report the facts.....but that’s a whole other topic.

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I'm not saying the media should rush to negative judgement about a perpetrator.

I'm saying they should extend the same courtesy to every perpetrator, not just the white Christian ones. This one for example has been described as "quiet nerdy young man from a tight knit godly family"

Strikes me that this description applies to many terrorists. 

And choosing which facts to include in a story and which facts are 'not relevant' is a very difficult aspect of journalism. The whole 'just report the facts' thing is a myth. There will always be omissions, selections, word choice, order of presentation etc. 

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I'm not saying the media should rush to negative judgement about a perpetrator.

 

I'm saying they should extend the same courtesy to every perpetrator, not just the white Christian ones. This one for example has been described as "quiet nerdy young man from a tight knit godly family"

 

Strikes me that this description applies to many terrorists.

 

And choosing which facts to include in a story and which facts are 'not relevant' is a very difficult aspect of journalism. The whole 'just report the facts' thing is a myth. There will always be omissions, selections, word choice, order of presentation etc.

And bias.

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Interesting. It seems the FBI Agents Association agree that the terrorism label is not applied broadly enough and they find this problematic.

 

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ab2da83e4b0decad04689fc

 

Interesting article but this is absurd:

"Had they decided to go door to door shooting Muslims living in an apartment complex in Garden City, as they are accused of discussing on audiotapes, there would be no basis for a terrorism-related charge and they’d likely be facing only civil rights charges."

 

Actually they would be facing state felony murder charges along with federal civil rights charges.

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I'm not saying the media should rush to negative judgement about a perpetrator.

 

I'm saying they should extend the same courtesy to every perpetrator, not just the white Christian ones. This one for example has been described as "quiet nerdy young man from a tight knit godly family"

 

Strikes me that this description applies to many terrorists. 

 

And choosing which facts to include in a story and which facts are 'not relevant' is a very difficult aspect of journalism. The whole 'just report the facts' thing is a myth. There will always be omissions, selections, word choice, order of presentation etc. 

 

The narrative has a lot to do with the known facts of a case as well.

 

When Mateen was already a target of previous terrorism related investigations and also made a call explaining why he was doing the shooting, one would expect less background discussion to figure out his motives.

 

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The narrative has a lot to do with the known facts of a case as well.

 

When Mateen was already a target of previous terrorism related investigations and also made a call explaining why he was doing the shooting, one would expect less background discussion to figure out his motives.

 

 

Also there was a lot of reluctance at the time to release the facts indicating possible terrorism.  They scrubbed the 911 call of the man's own words implicating Islamic extremism before releasing it to the public.

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Ravin has saved me a ton of time typing out comments on this thread.

 

Basically, everything he said.

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(Oops, I forgot about the coming shutdown. Never leave a controversial post just to twist in the breeze, during a forum shutdown. Deleted!)

Edited by Tibbie Dunbar
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Interesting article but this is absurd:

"Had they decided to go door to door shooting Muslims living in an apartment complex in Garden City, as they are accused of discussing on audiotapes, there would be no basis for a terrorism-related charge and they’d likely be facing only civil rights charges."

 

Actually they would be facing state felony murder charges along with federal civil rights charges.

Which has no bearing, whatsoever, on investigatory resources.

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Which has no bearing, whatsoever, on investigatory resources.

 

And which investigation do you believe has been hampered by these supposed lack of resources?

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And which investigation do you believe has been hampered by these supposed lack of resources?

All of them. Proactive resources are not being devoted to these threats as much as they should be. Also, btw, the FBI agent article was WRT federal charges and statutes, not state ones. http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2018/02/national-security-pros-its-time-talk-about-right-wing-extremism/146319/?oref=d-river

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All of them. Proactive resources are not being devoted to these threats as much as they should be. Also, btw, the FBI agent article was WRT federal charges and statutes, not state ones. http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2018/02/national-security-pros-its-time-talk-about-right-wing-extremism/146319/?oref=d-river

 

But the federal charges are often redundant.  McVeigh was convicted on the federal charges but never tried on the state, which didn't matter as the sentence was the same.

 

"As much as they should be" is hard to measure, but we do know the FBI and state officials are still investigating, infiltrating, and making arrests of groups involved in domestic terrorism.

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But the federal charges are often redundant. McVeigh was convicted on the federal charges but never tried on the state, which didn't matter as the sentence was the same.

 

"As much as they should be" is hard to measure, but we do know the FBI and state officials are still investigating, infiltrating, and making arrests of groups involved in domestic terrorism.

Yes, and there’s a reason for that. Historically, the feds have been better able to prosecute and obtain convictions in cases of this nature. We also know that there is a marked difference in the manpower and financial resources given over to international threats to the homeland vs domestic ones. That makes no sense when domestic threats have led to far, far more casualties and incidents. Edited by Sneezyone

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