Need more narration questions.

[Sarah0000]

I'm not using a curriculum for narration. I've just gleaned from past threads here and decided to use my own sources. My son is in kindergarten but is accelerated. He does grammar, copywork, and studied dictation.

 

Ok, so I mostly use Stories of Great Americans for Little Americans for narration. I read a paragraph then ask him to tell me in one complete sentence to summarize that paragraph. We do this for the whole story which is usually 5-8 times. The only time he needs help (other than a reminder to use a complete sentence) is when the paragraph doesn't include a phrase for the idea that links all the important details of the paragraph together. So I prompt him to pinpoint what the overarching idea is and sometimes give him a word for it, then he can complete the summary on his own.

 

What else could I be doing or asking for during narrations other than summarizing the main idea? He's not ready to do a whole piece at once yet. Should I maybe continue what we've been doing then at the end ask for two details from any place in the piece to get him to remember the whole thing?

[Petrichor]

You could move on to having him summarize 2 paragraphs at once. Ask for 2-3 important details. Summarize short stories (5-8 paragraphs)

 

I like Writing With Ease for this kind of work. Strong Fundamentals gives you a good guide + examples of how to approach it.

 

Bonus in that Strong Fundamentals includes info on all 4 levels at once, so you can jump to whichever level you think your DS is at. Extra bonus that you can purchase it used for about $10.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Dust

[Tsuga]

I personally wouldn't ask him questions per paragraph. That sounds exhausting and an enthusiasm-killer "wow this is interesting but what am I going to say when she gets to the end...".

 

That said, you do want to have some comprehension work in there.

 

I'd ask him to ask the questions for at least every other paragraph. You might also ask him to make up a rhyme or aphorism for the whole text.

 

Another K-level activity would be acting out the story. Get props. Draw the story. Draw a character. Anything creative. One per story, not more. Acting the story would have the benefit of memorization: you could write a short play and then memorize it and act it out.

 

My concern would be the association of reading and stories with Q&A. That sounds so tiresome. You never get to sit back and enjoy the story.

[PeterPan]

You do understand that narration and summarizing aren't the same thing, right? That's fine if he can summarize, but you could just as easily teach him key word outlines and how to retell a narrative using them. You might just read him something interesting and ask him to tell you the story. Like just tell the story, no restrictions, nothing. 

 

Narration is partly an act of language development, so jumping to summarizing is actually short-circuiting the process. You WANT him to elaborate and go on and describe. You can even make a game of it, like letting him read a short text you HAVEN'T read and letting him narrate while you draw a picture. Then you show him the picture and reread it together and see how close he got you and whether he got the important things. 

[Sarah0000]

I like the idea of drawing a picture while he narrates. Then he'll see if he missed any important details.

 

We do a lot of the other ideas like retelling the whole story, drawing pictures, and acting out stories with fun literature books. The history text I'm using doesn't lend itself to that kind of thing very well.

 

The end goal of oral narration is moving to written narration then transitioning to different types of essay writing, no? Is that wrong? I'll get The Strong Fundamentals text to get a clearer picture of the goals.

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, I think of narration as retelling, including the details, like CM.  But IIRC WTM seems to have summarizing instead.

 

I'd try some narration-retelling to change things up.  Maybe some different kinds of text - Aesop is always a good place to start.  Then maybe you could write down his narration and he could use it, or part of it, for copywork sometimes.  He could even then illustrate it.

[PeterPan]

Summarizing is a 4th grade skill in WTM, yes? It's been a while. I get that kids are advanced, because my dd was that way. I'm just saying he's super young and there isn't really a particular need. Your longer narrations sound good. 

 

Have you thought of doing a writing curriculum with him? He's ready for some of the fable writing programs. Back in my day it was Classical Writing (CW) fables and Writing Tales 1. I LOVE Writing Tales, btw. Now there's another program, Writing & Rhetoric, that seems popular. 

 

Why the rush to essays? WTM recommends it later. The ps push essays early, but WTM suggests waiting till later, when that ability to analyze and think logically comes in. That's going to vary with the kid, obviously. Roll with him. He might enjoy moving into a writing program targeted to 2nd/3rd grade. 

 

Are you doing latin and other things to use up that brain power? 

[fdrinca]

For my non-writer, we do drawings for narration (in addition to oral narration). But, we do narration **after** we have finished the piece, so that they can process and digest the entire piece and find the essential parts. 

 

My kids have tended to get caught up in trying to retell every bit of the story, unable to see the forest from the trees. Asking for a summary after every paragraph would only have perpetuated that problem. 

 

Here are some additional ideas:

https://simplycharlottemason.com/timesavers/narration/

 

ETA: my sense is that narration is much, much more than simply summarizing. It's both internalizing the piece you've read and then reprocessing it into something new. Sometimes, that "something new" is an oral or written summary, but that's only the beginning. I like to pull in activities that push us higher on Bloom's Taxonomy, past Knowledge/Comprehension. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by fdrinca

[PeterPan]

Bingo. Narration can be expanded, like they do in Writing Tales, to add dialogue, setting, change the time frame, make creative additions, etc. It's so limitless in potential. It's the whole basis for how you learn to expand essays, write on theme, etc.

Edited March 21, 2018 by PeterPan

[Sarah0000]

I don't want him to do essays any time soon. I was just thinking that was the end goal at least in terms of writing based on history.

 

We also do Suppose the Wolf Were an Octopus and retelling of fairy tales and Aesop a la Bravewriter, rotated with other creative writing projects. Just this week we started Writers Workshop from No More I'm Done. Creative writing and Lit study is going well.

 

I do plan on W&R but not until next year. Maybe I have enough stuff going on that I don't need narration to develop writing or comprehension skills at all, just memory.

[PeterPan]

He sounds like a very capable student. Are you worried whether you're doing enough or trying to deal with boredom or understimulation on his part? 

 

He's definitely doing enough from a grade level and even basic advancement consideration (being 1-2 grades ahead on things). At that point, I would really start looking at qualifying him for some gifted opportunities and enrichments, finding him a mentor, going broader, etc.

[Sarah0000]

No I'm not really worried about anything, just trying to hit all the skills I can and narration only takes five minutes and people say they can really see a big impact after a couple years. It was getting tedious doing the same type of narration responses though and there must be more to it.

[Tsuga]

If you're working with a gifted child, don't do the repetition that is required for a classroom in which approximately 50% of students are below average (by definition of the term "average"). It will be like hitting him in the head with a hammer. Or save yourself the trouble and send the poor mite to public school.

 

He gets it. Just enjoy the stories. You don't have to pound it into his head. He won't need more than a brief explanation for anything. That's not how the minds of these little guys work. Stop drilling, and start enjoying watching his brain work it out on its own. "What do you think would be a good addition to this?" "How would this story be if you told it with numbers?" He's accelerated/gifted so go with it.

 

Some typical learners do take three years to "get" narration. I daresay that unless your child is asynchronous, i.e. gifted in other areas but not in this, you won't see a huge improvement after three years. He gets it. Period.

 

Also, if a lot of people are seeing improvement after three years, IMO that's the difference between a five year old brain and an eight year old brain in a typically developing child. I have one kid that got it at five. Drilling was pointless. She got it. The other kid got it at eight. Drilling was somewhat helpful, but... not really? Like, I think I could have spent a few weeks on it when she was ready and then gone deeper and wider at that point and saved us all some time.

 

Reading for pleasure has been the #1 driver of my kids' comprehension and reading / literature testing scores.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Tsuga

[Sarah0000]

Know and Tell is purchased. Thank you! It sounds exactly like what I need. I like having a clear understanding of the big picture.