Homeschool Abuse/Neglect bill proposed in MD

[Ginevra]

If you homeschool in Maryland, or even if you are merely interested in developments affecting homeschooling laws in the US, what do you think of this proposed bill?

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018RS/bills/hb/hb1798F.pdf

 

All of my homeschool groups are going BANANAS, vehemently opposing this bill. I can’t say I feel the same way. The gist of the bill is that it would allow board of ed. observer to come to the location you specify as your “primary homeschool instruction location†(home, for most of us) and observe the instruction as given by the designated “primary homeschool instructor.†This would be by appointment; it is not as though they barge in the door some random day.

 

Legally, I do think the bill is problematic. Why should all homeschoolers be suspected of abuse/neglect because of the few (such as the horrible Turpin case) who do use homeschooling as a cover for their crimes? Parents of children not yet school age might also be abusing/neglecting their child, yet there is no appointment with social services every year to make sure nothing seems off. So, the Libertarian side of me wants to say this is a bad law.

 

On the other hand, if this bill passed tomorrow, it would not be likely to negatively affect me or the hundreds of homeschooling parents I know who do a fantastic job. It might catch some crappy parents in the dragnet, though, and I can’t say I would be sad about that. I have not met a lot of parents whom I thought were doing a terrible job of homeschooling - but I have met a few. Because of this, I don’t think this bill is the worst idea.

 

Ultimately, I think this bill is very unlikely to pass for several reasons, not the least of which is funding. Babysitting the thousands of great homeschoolers to find the one weed is not bound to look good on a balance sheet. It is also somewhat redundant over our ordinary homeschool regs, which allow for a board of ed. rep to observe instruction if desired by the rep, but which I have literally never once heard of happening to anyone in my 15+ years of homeschooling in Maryland.

 

What do you think of this proposal? Does it make your blood boil? Make you go, “meh� Is it something you would strongly support?

 

ETA: changed wordy title

Edited March 11, 2018 by Quill

[OneStepAtATime]

I will say up front I am not automatically opposed to some sort of accountability.  I am willing to consider that as long as it is from a support and assist point of view, not strictly to catch the ne'er do well evil homeschoolers out there, because frankly I am betting those numbers are really, really tiny compared to the number of kids getting an education.  I do feel it is unfair to target homeschoolers when there are many times many kids being abused/neglected that are not being homeschooled and quite a number fly under the radar (including the Turpin kids, a few of whom were IN SCHOOL for several years).  But yes, some sort of support/assistance coupled with some sort of accountability/oversight MIGHT work, depending.

 

That being said, a rather large chunk of my family are teachers/administrators in the public school system in the United States and some have been school principals or University Professors.  Some have been on boards of education.  They run the gamut.  My mother was a teacher for many many years.  I love them all but would not have felt ANY of them were qualified to actually judge whether my own homeschooling situation was neglectful or not.  My kids have gifts and learning challenges.  What we use or don't use in any given week/month/year could be radically different from what a public school trained education authority might recognize as a good idea. 

 

In fact, I know for a fact that some thought I was absolutely neglectful.  They were not in my home day in and day out, seeing my kids struggling and working hard and all of us really trying.  And when my son was super interested in subjects that were not being taught in the PS for that grade level I got criticized for allowing him to pursue those interests instead of topics being taught in public school.  All they saw was that my kids were behind in certain areas and not following lockstep with the ps plan.  They would also get stressed when they called and we were not sitting at a desk doing ps type things.  Maybe we were out on a field trip or playing at the park or having a picnic in our living room.  Their indoctrination into learning only being workable one way kept them from being able to see other possibilities.

 

So my questions are these:

• Who gets to decide what the definition of "neglectful" is? 
• And how much authority do they have to force changes? 
• How much training do they have in homeschooling vs. ps education? 
• What about training with gifted kids/kids with learning challenges/kids with health issues/kids dealing with extreme anxiety and depression?
•  And how much can they actually determine from one scheduled visit?

 

ETA:  In a perfect world there would be someone out there helping homeschoolers get started or get through tough times or whatever and would catch the rare situations where abuse/neglect was actually occurring but this is not a perfect world.  I fear the organization/regs would not be helpful at all and would do more harm than good. 

 

Heck, CPS goofs things up all the time.  They are underfunded, understaffed, poorly organized and poorly trained in many instances (if not most).  If an organization that has been around for decades struggles with finding and fixing abuse/neglect why should I believe that some new something could do any better?  Just more paperwork/red tape/control in the hands of people who may have even more problems than organizations that already exist.

Edited March 11, 2018 by OneStepAtATime

[eternalsummer]

I don't live in Maryland; if I did and this became law, I'd move.

 

I would never consider living in Maryland.

[Dmmetler]

I have this sinking feeling that they'd come to observe me on the day DD is in a bad mood and is lying on the floor, claiming that assignment is abusive and is going to result in her death, the cat is bleeding (we had a cat who had oral cancer, and would drool blood at times for a whole year before she died), DH dumped his week's laundry on the floor of the kitchen, and I haven't gotten around to doing it yet, and DD's snake has escaped and is twined around the curtain rod, but I can't reach to get him down!

 

You know, one of those days you laugh about after the fact, but in the short term, you just want to go to the bathroom with a batch of cookies, a bottle of wine, and netflix and forget that the outside world exists??

 

At least when such days happened in the school system, I had administrators and other teachers who knew that, honest, I really was competent!

[Guinevere]

It is too subjective. Like a pp, I want to know who gets to decide what acceptable teaching looks like?

 

I could support a yearly proctored test, with the ability to have IEP type accommodations. I could also support needing to supply a few recommendation letters when I list my intent to homeschool. Something like my daughter's violin teacher writes a letter that says my daughter has been there every week for a year, clean, fed, happy, and making regular progress. Note that he shouldn't have to say whether or not he suspects abuse, but rather that he has seen such and such indicators of a safe and well child. I do think there are issues with this idea, but it is a starting place, perhaps.

[snowbeltmom]

I am not opposed to regulations, but I would be going BANANAS over this bill,too. I will be shocked if it passes.

 

Does Maryland have any homeschool regulations currently?

[nixpix5]

Oh heck no. If I lived in MD and this law passed I would relocate. If it does pass we will all need to be concerned as state bills have a tendency to become contagious.

[luuknam]

I could also support needing to supply a few recommendation letters when I list my intent to homeschool. Something like my daughter's violin teacher writes a letter that says my daughter has been there every week for a year, clean, fed, happy, and making regular progress. Note that he shouldn't have to say whether or not he suspects abuse, but rather that he has seen such and such indicators of a safe and well child. 

 

 

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

 

I mean, in reality, I'm sure you could find some other homeschoolers to write a recommendation letter for you even if they barely know you at all, or pay some other unscrupulous person, so, I doubt it would really prevent anyone from homeschooling, but no, just no. 

 

Also, no to entering my home. 

 

ETA: when Celery was little we did let the early intervention people come into our home to test him and then the speech therapist to give him therapy, but I can't get on board with requiring people to let someone in their home in order to homeschool (I get that with this bill, you could just claim to do most of your homeschooling at the library and meet there or w/e... last year my youngest did most of his homeschooling at the local public school while we were there for my oldest's therapies... that would've been fun). 

Edited March 11, 2018 by luuknam

[teachermom2834]

I tend to think homeschoolers overreact to every little thing but I would be going bananas over this too.

[gaillardia]

So glad we don't live in MD anymore.

Some of my friends who were not using an umbrella school like I was when I lived there, complained to me once a year about the horrible circumstances they went through with the review by the school board personnel. Nit picking.

 

One friend agreed to home visits by someone from the school district back when that was a thing, 1995, in Quill's county. 

 

When we moved to MD I got signed up with the umbrella right away. No less than 5 friends were on board within 2 years because they were tired of being treated like crap. These are well-educated people with money, who used things like Calvert, American Academy, and other expensive curricula/activities. 

 

It doesn't sound like it would be much different than what it had been with the home visits, at least in my county, back then. You could choose to meet at the courthouse or your home with someone from the public school administration. 

[MeaganS]

No one's coming in my house without a warrant. I don't oppose some regulation, but mandatory house visits is not ok with me.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

No. Absolutely not. Come watch you teach, that's insane!

 

Considering the million ways to homeschool, a lot of hsing parents have no idea how to teach - and by that, I do NOT mean that their children aren't learning! I mean they are facilitating, learning alongside, supervising, or otherwise not "doing" busy little chores that an outsider would recognize as certifiable pedagogy.

 

Yeah, I'm joining the protest on his one.

 

Require that I have some materials and a plan, any plan, at the start of the year, and require either a portfolio or a standardized test. Fine. Many American hsers have happily lived with this level of watching, for decades. Or add some more layers, like the next tier of states: Make me cover certain subjects every year, and track hours. I don't like it, but I do not find it unconstitutional or insane.

 

Go a step farther, in light of changing times, and consider tying govt oversight to health care: All kids must be seen by a doctor, dentist, and eye doctor every year. I'm good with that because children need access to health care, so if homeschool abuse is the catalyst for getting dental care for all kids, that's okay by me. Nothing to do with hsing, but if they need some kind of legislative activity to justify their jobs...

 

But come in my child's home to watch me teach him? Nope.

 

I, personally, could do a nice demo of Little Homeschool on the Prairie, if they want a show. I have chalkboard, maps, teacher's manuals and textbooks, microscopes, math toys, a dedicated classroom, Latin recitations and poetry readings, AND computers; they'd love me.

 

But other hsers who are equally successful by totally different methods, would be buying "Lesson Plans for Showing Off Day" at Currclick for $5.99. Actually, so would I, because why should I show the state so much very personal information? We should all just demonstrate the same canned lesson. LOL

 

Again, we have other methods of accountability, assessment, and even some data collection, that have not violated the privacy of the home and homeschool. If a state doesn't have those, that's a far better place to start than to imitate the pogroms that drove families like the famed Mary Antin's to America, so their children would be educated. The last thing that was happening to them, before they left, was that Jewish children were not allowed to attend school in the synagogue, so rabbis and others who could read, were educating children at home. Then the law became, "No child may be schooled in a room that is used for eating or sleeping." (In a community of two-room dwellings.) Mary Antin's father said, "An outsider might think they believe children should learn in the middle of the street. But we know they do not want our children to learn from us at all."

 

Guess how they enforced that law? Policemen visited homes to see if there were books, and tried to find out what fathers and mothers were saying to their children.

 

Does that sound like the United States of America to you?

Edited March 11, 2018 by Tibbie Dunbar

[MysteryJen]

Clearly, Maryland has no bad teachers or underperforming schools, so they can focus on homeschoolers.

 

This is pretty much a “hell, no!†moment for me.

[cintinative]

wow. I know nothing about this. Thanks for the heads up.

[EmseB]

I am not opposed to regulations, but I would be going BANANAS over this bill,too. I will be shocked if it passes.

 

Does Maryland have any homeschool regulations currently?

Yes, a portfolio review with the district twice each school year. Or being supervised by an umbrella.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

How do you Marylanders feel about MD Homeschool Association? Does this link agree with your understanding?

 

Mdhsa.com/legal/2018/2018-hb1798.php

 

If so, it's got some expanded info.

[hjffkj]

I am very much opposed to any homeschool law that requires me to allow someone into my home. Other forms of regulations aren't immediately a problem but entering my home is an issue I will never get behind.

[Roadrunner]

Nobody enters my home. Period. That’s the type of intrusion I wouldn’t tolerate.

 

This is what I am willing to do. Have my childrens’ denstist whom they see twice a year fill out a form that kids are functioning and healthy. Or a doc, but we only see the doc once every two years (our insurance rules).

I am willing to take standardized test once a year.

I am also willing to meet a local school councilor once per semester and hand over the portfolio. I would like in exchange access to AP testing.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Roadrunner

[LucyStoner]

While I generally support more homeschooling regs (yes, even has a somewhat seasoned homeschooler and having been homeschooled for 2 years as a child myself), this is not a law that I would support.  

 

While I am not opposed to home visitor services, unless there is a reason to suspect abuse, I think it needs to be voluntary.  There's a lot of class and other issues tied up in people's homes.  

 

Also, I don't think it would be effective because most often abusive parents are great about putting on a show to look normal when needed.  So it adds cost without adding a real impact and that's the worst kind of law.  

 

While some of these are controversial, I support the following added homeschool regulations:

 

-Not allowing someone to homeschool if they have previous convictions for child abuse or either is or LIVES WITH a registered sex offender.  

-Not allowing someone to homeschool in order to get around the academic minimums for sports participation.  

-Requiring some verification and support for those who homeschool who have open or past truancy cases. 

-Requiring a minimum level of educational attainment for homeschooling parents with an alternative class or training for those that don't have it.  We have that here and I don't think it's a bad thing.  

-Submitting a portfolio, evaluation and/or test scores but in a way that allows the parent to decide what is the best for their children.  

-Sending homeschoolers information about screening for developmental and learning disabilities (which would default require all homeschoolers to register, and I'm not losing any sleep over that idea either).  

 

People who ignore the homeschooling laws would be subject to truancy proceedings.  

[eternalsummer]

I can't see a mandatory home visit passing anywhere in the US.  I just can't even.

[Farrar]

I don't live in MD, but nearly all our homeschool friends are across the line in MD and I'm on a lot of MD homeschool lists so I'm well aware of this one.

 

The funding issue is obscene. Baltimore schools couldn't heat their buildings this winter and they want to force them to spend their resources on this? I mean, even in Montgomery County, I know that the review process already strains the system. Heck, they quietly stopped even doing reviews in PG for awhile if you'd already passed before. The individual school systems clearly don't want to deal with this.

 

The most astute analysis I've seen of it was from Wendy Bush, who runs (ran? since they're ending...) TEA and she pointed out something I hadn't realized previously, which is that COMAR already gives the district the right to observe instruction - same as portfolio reviews - at a place of mutual choosing, but that she wasn't aware of any district that had done that in decades if ever. They already don't want to do this.

 

I'm not against some homeschool regulation, but this is nuts.

 

Luckily, I think it's unlikely to pass.

[SereneHome]

I lived in MD for a long time and I would be going ballistic if I was still living there.  The ONLY oversight I think homeschoolers should have is education-related and I am not even convinced about that.

 

I live in New England now and my state had a proposed bill a few months ago that would completely change the reporting requirements.  People went nuts, showed up at the hearing, and the bill was dead. 

 

Neither child abuse nor educational  abuse/neglect will ever be prevented by more regulations, more laws, or extra "over sight".  All it will accomplish is create more hurdles and more hoops to jump through for people who are already doing the right thing

Edited March 12, 2018 by SereneHome

[snowbeltmom]

Yes, a portfolio review with the district twice each school year. Or being supervised by an umbrella.

Wow, your state already has regulations that seem more strict than the vast majority of states, definitely more strict than my state. Evaluations twice per year? That must be expensive.

[HSmomof2]

No I don't support it. At all. I would never support something this intrusive.

I completely agree. There is no need for something like this, and it’s over-the-top intrusive. Just no. I’m tired of the idea of everyone being punished for the acts of a few.

[StephanieZ]

What about a law requiring all children under 18 to have the pediatrician do a thorough exam including mental health screening annually if the child is not enrolled in a public brick and mortar school. Public financing for the exams would have to be provided. To me, that's a reasonable requirement for every parent and might catch some of the evil people who use homeschooling freedoms as a cover for abuse. I don't think *homeschoolers* are more likely to abuse, but I do see an elevated risk since they don't have constant contact with mandated reporters (as do B&M schooled kids). It could be really helpful for toddlers/preschool age kids too, to catch problems before they've gone on for years. 

[Guest]

How do you Marylanders feel about MD Homeschool Association? Does this link agree with your understanding?

 

Mdhsa.com/legal/2018/2018-hb1798.php

 

If so, it's got some expanded info.

Their FB group is one of the places I saw folks going bananas. But also my umbrella. And that was forwarded to my co-op as well.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Nm, misread, sorry...

Edited March 12, 2018 by Tibbie Dunbar

[JennyD]

I don't live in MD, but it is clear that the bill is unconstitutional, a clear violation of 4th Amendment rights. 

 

I completely agree that this bill is appalling but I don't actually think the federal courts would necessarily find it unconstitutional under 4th amendment grounds.  Since the 1980s the Supreme Court has steadily narrowed the scope of 4th amendment protections.   My guess would be that MD could successfully argue that this is like the "implied consent" for breathalyzer tests -- courts have held that those are lawful searches because drivers have implicitly consented to them by the fact of driving.  

 

That said, I'd be kicking up a fuss as well.  Although I agree with Quill that it also seems very implausible that MD is going to really want to devote such resources to homeschool enforcement.  

Edited March 12, 2018 by JennyD

[Guest]

Wow, your state already has regulations that seem more strict than the vast majority of states, definitely more strict than my state. Evaluations twice per year? That must be expensive.

Do you mean expensive to the government? A lot of people use an umbrella, as do I.

 

We do have more regs than many states, although I think we have it the easiest in this region and northward. No mandatory testing. And the umbrella is somewhat of a loophole, because you can get an umbrella that meshes with your philosophy.

[Greta]

I'm actually pretty strongly in favor of tougher homeschool regulations.  And even I wouldn't support that.  That's some serious over-reach, IMO.

[Guest]

I don't live in MD, but nearly all our homeschool friends are across the line in MD and I'm on a lot of MD homeschool lists so I'm well aware of this one.

 

The funding issue is obscene. Baltimore schools couldn't heat their buildings this winter and they want to force them to spend their resources on this? I mean, even in Montgomery County, I know that the review process already strains the system. Heck, they quietly stopped even doing reviews in PG for awhile if you'd already passed before. The individual school systems clearly don't want to deal with this.

 

The most astute analysis I've seen of it was from Wendy Bush, who runs (ran? since they're ending...) TEA and she pointed out something I hadn't realized previously, which is that COMAR already gives the district the right to observe instruction - same as portfolio reviews - at a place of mutual choosing, but that she wasn't aware of any district that had done that in decades if ever. They already don't want to do this.

 

I'm not against some homeschool regulation, but this is nuts.

 

Luckily, I think it's unlikely to pass.

Yeah, Wendy Bush is my umbrella head. (She is also my good friend. And yes, she is retiring and TEA is going away.) I did think her analysis of it was good. I don’t particularly like it being circulated as “an Anti-homeschooling bill†because I do not see it as such. I think it was a (faulty) attempt to not have there be more Turpin families lurking undetected under the guise of homeschooling.

[Roadrunner]

And it doesn’t have to be one way. Maybe there could be several ways a family could satisfy the requirements.

 

I will also say that a lot of homeschoolers we know would love to be more involved on some level with public schools. Some want to participate in afterschool clubs or take an occasional class or play sports. We pay taxes for those schools and yet they won’t even consider letting my kid have a seat for an AP exam. Now if educators are so concerned about all those children at home, why not give us opportunities to come and interact with them? I bet a ton of people would love to join a Model UN or a school orchestra for example. I know that doesn’t replace educational requirements and doesn’t prevent any abuse, but at least it provides for opportunities for some of us willing to be more integrated with a local community, and state would have less homeschooled kids to have to keep en eye on.

[LucyStoner]

What about a law requiring all children under 18 to have the pediatrician do a thorough exam including mental health screening annually if the child is not enrolled in a public brick and mortar school. Public financing for the exams would have to be provided. To me, that's a reasonable requirement for every parent and might catch some of the evil people who use homeschooling freedoms as a cover for abuse. I don't think *homeschoolers* are more likely to abuse, but I do see an elevated risk since they don't have constant contact with mandated reporters (as do B&M schooled kids). It could be really helpful for toddlers/preschool age kids too, to catch problems before they've gone on for years.

Honestly, I'd go further than that and say ALL children regardless of school enrollment should be required to see a pediatrician and have comprehensive screenings. I think I would be ok with every 2 years instead of every year for school-aged children.

 

Here they do a number of health screenings in the school and all students, even those who are seeing a pediatrician regularly, have to do them. I saw the sped teacher at my son's school put a lot of energy into making sure he saw the nurse for the annual eye screening when he sees a pediatric eye doctor every 6-12 months and has a very corrective prescription for bifocal glasses. The nurse screening was/is pretty pointless for him and screening him costs the school money. If all kids were required to see a medical doctor, they could shift the resources from screening everyone to providing annual or every other year doctor visits for the number of children who don't already see the doctor regularly.

Edited March 12, 2018 by LucyStoner

[Guest]

And it doesn’t have to be one way. Maybe there could be several ways a family could satisfy the requirements.

 

I will also say that a lot of homeschoolers we know would love to be more involved on some level with public schools. Some want to participate in afterschool clubs or take an occasional class or play sports. We pay taxes for those schools and yet they won’t even consider letting my kid have a seat for an AP exam. Now if educators are so concerned about all those children at home, why not give us opportunities to come and interact with them? I bet a ton of people would love to join a Model UN or a school orchestra for example. I know that doesn’t replace educational requirements and doesn’t prevent any abuse, but at least it provides for opportunities for some of us willing to be more integrated with a local community, and state would have less homeschooled kids to have to keep en eye on.

Yes, I am very in favor of “Tim Tebow†laws, which have not been passed in MD. I think it is wrong that we cannot use the school extra-cs or sports at all.

[Farrar]

How do you Marylanders feel about MD Homeschool Association? Does this link agree with your understanding?

 

Mdhsa.com/legal/2018/2018-hb1798.php

 

If so, it's got some expanded info.

 

That's a relatively new group that no one I know is a member of. I've heard of them and they seem fine and all - their explanation of the bill jibes with all the things that I've seen circulating on local lists. 

 

I just thought it was worth pointing out that Maryland doesn't have a strong statewide group. There's a couple of other mostly defunct ones and there's MACHE, which is Christian and holds a yearly curriculum fair.

 

Because there are umbrellas, I think people feel a stronger affiliation with their umbrellas than anything else.

[Daria]

Wow, your state already has regulations that seem more strict than the vast majority of states, definitely more strict than my state. Evaluations twice per year? That must be expensive.

 

It's not an evaluation.  You just show them a few pieces of work.  You don't even need to bring your child to the meeting.  I think that states that require testing are more restrictive.  

 

I think I could accept a requirement to bring the child to the meeting.  Or a requirement that homeschooled kids undergo physicals at the same frequency as kids in public or private schools, although that's not often in MD. 

 

To me, mental health testing, or a visit in the home would be too intrusive.  

[Guest]

What about a law requiring all children under 18 to have the pediatrician do a thorough exam including mental health screening annually if the child is not enrolled in a public brick and mortar school. Public financing for the exams would have to be provided. To me, that's a reasonable requirement for every parent and might catch some of the evil people who use homeschooling freedoms as a cover for abuse. I don't think *homeschoolers* are more likely to abuse, but I do see an elevated risk since they don't have constant contact with mandated reporters (as do B&M schooled kids). It could be really helpful for toddlers/preschool age kids too, to catch problems before they've gone on for years.

Wouldn’t there need to be a religious exemption or something like that? And then we would be right back to some segment of the population who already will not mix with outsiders or won’t use doctors claiming exemption and flying below radar.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Quill

[Guest]

It's not an evaluation. You just show them a few pieces of work. You don't even need to bring your child to the meeting. I think that states that require testing are more restrictive.

 

I think I could accept a requirement to bring the child to the meeting. Or a requirement that homeschooled kids undergo physicals at the same frequency as kids in public or private schools, although that's not often in MD.

 

To me, mental health testing, or a visit in the home would be too intrusive.

The regular pediatricians here already do a screening that I consider somewhere between silly and intrusive. Have you encountered it? Both of my older kids had this survey thing when they visited the pediatrician before high school entry. It had questions, some good, some not so good, such as, “Do you feel unsafe with anybody in your home,†and, “do you feel you have enough friends?â€

 

I remember my dd thought it was the craziest survey she had ever seen, but a lot of those questions were so far outside of her experience it sounded like something from a TV show to her.

[Crimson Wife]

 

While some of these are controversial, I support the following added homeschool regulations:

 

-Not allowing someone to homeschool if they have previous convictions for child abuse or either is or LIVES WITH a registered sex offender.  

-Not allowing someone to homeschool in order to get around the academic minimums for sports participation.  

-Requiring some verification and support for those who homeschool who have open or past truancy cases. 

-Requiring a minimum level of educational attainment for homeschooling parents with an alternative class or training for those that don't have it.  We have that here and I don't think it's a bad thing.  

-Submitting a portfolio, evaluation and/or test scores but in a way that allows the parent to decide what is the best for their children.  

-Sending homeschoolers information about screening for developmental and learning disabilities (which would default require all homeschoolers to register, and I'm not losing any sleep over that idea either).  

 

People who ignore the homeschooling laws would be subject to truancy proceedings.  

 

I have an open truancy case against me because my child with multiple disabilities has "too many" excused absences from all her various medical and therapy appointments. The truant officer up at district HQ sent me a nastygram demanding not just a note from the clinics (which I had previously provided) but also documentation of the "nature of each illness/injury" requiring a visit. Talk about a violation of my daughter's medical privacy! The truancy officer cited some local school board policy but Federal law protecting medical privacy trumps local school board policy.

 

I printed up a summary sheet for each of the two main medical systems where most of my daughter's providers are affiliated. Even that had more information than I believe they are entitled to have since it listed the specialty departments and it also appointments during non-school hours/days.

 

I haven't heard anything back from the truancy officer since I turned in the summary sheets but if I ever pulled my SN child to homeschool her, the last thing I would want is added red tape on account of the B.S. "truancy" case which has NOTHING to do with worrying about her welfare and EVERYTHING to do with the Average Daily Attendance funding from the state.

 

[luuknam]

Wouldn’t there need to be a religious exemption or something like that? And then we would be right back to some segment of the population who already will not mix with outsiders or won’t use doctors claiming exemption and flying below radar.

 

 

Are there religions that have a ban on seeing doctors? I mean, I know there are some that have issues with certain medical treatments, but this would be seeing a doctor without any treatment. 

 

And even for medical treatment I thought that courts sometimes overrule parents' religious objections in cases where the kid has a really high survival chance with treatment and almost certain death without.

 

Maybe we should start a religion in which your own home is your temple and no people from other religions can enter that holy place.  :lol:

[LucyStoner]

I have an open truancy case against me because my child with multiple disabilities has "too many" excused absences from all her various medical and therapy appointments. The truant officer up at district HQ sent me a nastygram demanding not just a note from the clinics (which I had previously provided) but also documentation of the "nature of each illness/injury" requiring a visit. Talk about a violation of my daughter's medical privacy! The truancy officer cited some local school board policy but Federal law protecting medical privacy trumps local school board policy.

 

I printed up a summary sheet for each of the two main medical systems where most of my daughter's providers are affiliated. Even that had more information than I believe they are entitled to have since it listed the specialty departments and it also appointments during non-school hours/days.

 

I haven't heard anything back from the truancy officer since I turned in the summary sheets but if I ever pulled my SN child to homeschool her, the last thing I would want is added red tape on account of the B.S. "truancy" case which has NOTHING to do with worrying about her welfare and EVERYTHING to do with the Average Daily Attendance funding from the state.

 

 

That's a good reason why truancy laws need to be refined, not a good reason why truancy history shouldn't be a factor in homeschooling.  I am thinking of people I have known either to file or be encouraged to file a DOI just to get out of the truancy issue OR to get out of the school's data set without being a dropout.   

[luuknam]

I have an open truancy case against me because my child with multiple disabilities has "too many" excused absences from all her various medical and therapy appointments. The truant officer up at district HQ sent me a nastygram demanding not just a note from the clinics (which I had previously provided) but also documentation of the "nature of each illness/injury" requiring a visit. Talk about a violation of my daughter's medical privacy! The truancy officer cited some local school board policy but Federal law protecting medical privacy trumps local school board policy.

 

I printed up a summary sheet for each of the two main medical systems where most of my daughter's providers are affiliated. Even that had more information than I believe they are entitled to have since it listed the specialty departments and it also appointments during non-school hours/days.

 

I haven't heard anything back from the truancy officer since I turned in the summary sheets but if I ever pulled my SN child to homeschool her, the last thing I would want is added red tape on account of the B.S. "truancy" case which has NOTHING to do with worrying about her welfare and EVERYTHING to do with the Average Daily Attendance funding from the state.

 

 

Honestly though, I think what needs to be fixed there is that they consider someone truant for too many excused absences. Of course, you could also just write the law with an exemption for truancy due to excused absences. Either way, I do think that people who pull their kid out to homeschool because of too many unexcused absences should receive some more scrutiny from the state than the average homeschooler (and I'm not saying that it has to be something crazy overreaching - just that it seems reasonable to want maybe quarterly portfolios for the first 1-2 years or so instead of annual).

[nixpix5]

Yes, a portfolio review with the district twice each school year. Or being supervised by an umbrella.

So does MD umbrella options let you use Christian curriculum? I ask because our umbrella doesn't as it is considered a public school. It seems to single out people who might not want an umbrella school because they want to use Christian materials.

[Guest]

Are there religions that have a ban on seeing doctors? I mean, I know there are some that have issues with certain medical treatments, but this would be seeing a doctor without any treatment.

 

And even for medical treatment I thought that courts sometimes overrule parents' religious objections in cases where the kid has a really high survival chance with treatment and almost certain death without.

 

Maybe we should start a religion in which your own home is your temple and no people from other religions can enter that holy place. :lol:

Well, I admitedly may be thinking this primarily because I just read the memoir Educated. Still, a person could twist scriptures to support their claim that it is not for man to depend on docotrs, but only on God, who may heal or not as He wills. Kwim?

[Mergath]

I completely agree that this bill is appalling but I don't actually think the federal courts would necessarily find it unconstitutional under 4th amendment grounds.  Since the 1980s the Supreme Court has steadily narrowed the scope of 4th amendment protections.   My guess would be that MD could successfully argue that this is like the "implied consent" for breathalyzer tests -- courts have held that those are lawful searches because drivers have implicitly consented to them by the fact of driving.  

 

That said, I'd be kicking up a fuss as well.  Although I agree with Quill that it also seems very implausible that MD is going to really want to devote such resources to homeschool enforcement.  

 

Not to mention that there are other instances where you have to consent to a home visit, such as if you want to adopt a child or (I think?) be approved as a foster home or a home daycare. Having to allow someone into your home isn't automatically a violation of your fourth amendment rights. I mean, someone can always choose not to homeschool rather than be subject to the regulation.

 

With that said, I don't think the law would be effective because, as others have mentioned, there's a range of ways to teach a child. I wouldn't necessarily be against home visits, but not in the context of judging the parent's teaching.

[Guest]

So does MD umbrella options let you use Christian curriculum? I ask because our umbrella doesn't as it is considered a public school. It seems to single out people who might not want an umbrella school because they want to use Christian materials.

Yes. Some umbrellas are specific to a particular church or faith tradition. There are many umbrellas. Some are small and specific, others are huge and broad.

[Mandamom]

So does MD umbrella options let you use Christian curriculum? I ask because our umbrella doesn't as it is considered a public school. It seems to single out people who might not want an umbrella school because they want to use Christian materials.

 

When i was homeschooling, I selected not to use an umbrella and was under the county review. Since I don't attend church and am not religious, finding an umbrella that I was willing to accept or were willing to accept me was difficult (plus they cost money and at the time, we didn't have any).  Since the umbrellas are under churches, some umbrella may have some rules/restrictions but most are fairly open with what you can use. 

 

Under  county review, I used many Christian programs and never had a problem. My portfolio consisted of a binder with samples of work from each required subject and that was it. I listed books and activities and that's about it. Most of the time I created my own programs and didn't use published curricula. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Mandamom

[Mergath]

Hopefully this doesn't start too much of a tangent, but one thing I've never really understood that seems to be prevalent among homeschoolers is everyone's horror at the idea of letting government officials into their homes. I've seen people hint heavily that they would shoot a government employee before they'd let them into their home, even with a warrant. Which is horrifying. And also, I realize, very, very extreme and most people don't feel that way. But what's the big deal? I've had public health workers in my home. I've had police officers in my home. They didn't drag my children away or plant drugs or whatever it is people worry about. 

 

I don't get it. A visit from the school district to make sure we aren't wading through three feet of animal feces or locking the children in the basement at night wouldn't bother me at all, but I know some homeschoolers would move into a bunker and disappear from society before they'd let that happen. It seems like such an extreme and pointless position to take, imo.

 

ETA: I should add that the hinting I saw was in huge FB homeschool groups, not here on the forum. I don't think there's anyone that extreme here.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Mergath

[Guest]

Hopefully this doesn't start too much of a tangent, but one thing I've never really understood that seems to be prevalent among homeschoolers is everyone's horror at the idea of letting government officials into their homes. I've seen people hint heavily that they would shoot a government employee before they'd let them into their home, even with a warrant. Which is horrifying. And also, I realize, very, very extreme and most people don't feel that way. But what's the big deal? I've had public health workers in my home. I've had police officers in my home. They didn't drag my children away or plant drugs or whatever it is people worry about.

 

I don't get it. A visit from the school district to make sure we aren't wading through three feet of animal feces or locking the children in the basement at night wouldn't bother me at all, but I know some homeschoolers would move into a bunker and disappear from society before they'd let that happen. It seems like such an extreme and pointless position to take, imo.

 

ETA: I should add that the hinting I saw was in huge FB homeschool groups, not here on the forum. I don't think there's anyone that extreme here.

This is the main thing that surprises me about the intense reaction against this proposed law. I feel like, if a board of ed observer came here and watched us do Math-U-See for fifteen minutes, it would be utterly boring. I don’t have a strong reaction to a govt official coming to my house. I mean, there’s nothing to see. I don’t really get that response either.

[eternalsummer]

I have a strong reaction to requiring me to allow a government official in my home without any particular compelling pretext.

 

In practice, I don't mind letting anyone in.  In theory, I am very opposed to being required to let the government into my private property without a (very) good reason.