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Running out of financial aid due to DE?


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Our tentative plan right now is for DD to use college DE classes for most of her high school core credits because they are accessible, inexpensive, and meet her needs, but she doesn’r Want to graduate early and leave home. One of my friends pointed out that the 150% of credits towards a degree would include those credits even if they don’t count towards a degree (like if they don’t transfer). If she goes in state, almost everything will transfer (and the things that won’t would be stuff like doing an extra history class to meet high school requirements but her college major not requiring that many). And the state HOPE scholarship for high test scores does not count anything done before 12th grade as part of the 5 years of eligibility as long as we dob’t ask them to pay for more than 12 credit hours total. (Which isn’t a problem as long as she’s at the CC, where credits are cheaper than most high school outsourced classes). But if she doesn’t, is that likely to be an issue?

 

She would really like to do more of her courses at the college next year.

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I want to help but I'm not sure I understand your question. I've had teens use dual enrollment. They won't graduate high school early.

 

Dual enrollment classes were paid for in cash or by grants offered by our state. Those grants were not need based.

 

We did not fill out the fasfa till senior year of high school.

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I think I understand your question, but I don't know the answer.  Have you tried asking on the CC FA forum?  I would make your question precise, like "I have a gifted student who started DE at a very young age and has been taking courses for interest, not toward a degree. If she attends a school where those credits are automatically transferred in, does having XX# of cr hrs not toward her degree impact FA eligibility once she has more than 150 cr hrs?"  Or whatever your exact question is.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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Can't help with your specific HOPE program -- definitely need to go in and discuss with them, to make sure you're not going to have a financial hiccup, but also that there won't be any problems coming in with freshman eligibility. (Some colleges limit how many total CLEP and transfer credits a high school graduate can come in with and still be considered a freshman in order to be eligible for freshman scholarships.)

 

I do know that you're a college student, you are "on the clock" with federal financial aid -- 6 years (12 semesters) total. High school students/dual enrollment are not eligible for federal financial aid, so not a problem in your situation. 

 

BEST of luck in finding out what the policy is! Warmest regards, Lori D.

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Pay out of pocket and don’t fill out the Fafsa till she goes to University! It often takes 5 years to graduate for a four year degree nowadays due to overcrowding. Many times even the most hard working and diligent students just can’t grafiate on time because getting into require courses just doesn’t always happen.

 

So, estimate five years for university and then work backwards. If she plans to get her AA at CC then you could fill out the fafsa in her 3rd year of CC.

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Apparently in at least some cases, yes. Federal financial aid cuts off at 150% of the credits attempted or completed required for a degree program, or at an amount that is equivalent to what would be reasonably expected for a degree program. In my friend's case, it hit one of her students who has had to withdraw mid-semester twice due to family issues and those withdrawals counted as credits completed.

 

What I have had trouble finding is whether classes taken outside of a degree program, at a different institution that are accepted for transfer actually count towards that number or not.

 

DD probably has a good 60 credit hours of "OOH, that sounds NEAT" humanities courses, and needs maybe 6 credits, total, for her likely college major, but which are all on the guaranteed transfer list for state colleges and most of the schools in the region. It's no big problem for her to take a class in those categories every semester while in high school if she wants to-as long as it doesn't affect financial aid.

 

 

I guess I should brave CC. Those folks scare me a little...

Edited by Dmmetler2
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The people at community college scare you?

 

 

College Confidential, I think.

 

I'm not sure of the answer to OP's question, other than that I only got 2 semesters (12 hours, because I was going part time at that time) of financial aid because the first several years I wasn't eligible because I was foreign, and then when I was eligible and applied I was almost at the excessive hours number. But, that was all post-high school. No idea what happens wrt DE. 

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You should search the website of the college you are considering transferring to.

 

I know my state flagship used to have a very strict maximum credit policy but now they still give four years of residency to kids coming in with DE.

 

We are full pay at state U, so we aren't concerned with the financial aid aspect so much as the not being forced to graduate early aspect. Most financial aid rules seem to have professional judgment loopholes that might help in your case as well.

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College confidential.

 

DD's community college has about the nicest administrative staff I've ever encountered anywhere. BUt since DD is their first student to ever be admitted so early, they don't have a lot of experience in this regard (they were kind of surprised that we didn't want to do the FAFSA and were willing to just pay out of pocket since she is scholarship eligible based on test scores-but hadn't thought about the fact that she wasn't a high school graduate, and that's also a requirement).

 

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The 150 rule states that you cannot get a subsidized loan for more than 150% of the published length of your program. The way I read it, paying for classes without loans will not bring the rule into play. If you took a federal loan for one year of community college, that would mean you would have 5 years of eligibility left if you transfer to a four-year school. If you take out your first loan at the four-year school, you would have 6 years of eligibility. 

 

From the government site: The periods of time that count against your maximum eligibility period are periods of enrollment (also known as "loan periods") for which you received Direct Subsidized Loans.

 

 

Read more here:

 

https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/directSubsidizedLoanTimeLimitation.action

 

Edited by katilac
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I've always thought you can't get FA for more than 4 yrs / 8 semester / so and so many credits - once you start using it and/or after you've graduated high school.  I've heard of some DE programs that accept federal FA, so I think that gets the clock ticking early.  But I think if you're still in high school, and paying out of pocket, it doesn't count.  

 

Although I know we're not going to get any FA ever anyway, so maybe I haven't been paying good enough attention...

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College confidential.

 

DD's community college has about the nicest administrative staff I've ever encountered anywhere. BUt since DD is their first student to ever be admitted so early, they don't have a lot of experience in this regard (they were kind of surprised that we didn't want to do the FAFSA and were willing to just pay out of pocket since she is scholarship eligible based on test scores-but hadn't thought about the fact that she wasn't a high school graduate, and that's also a requirement).

yea too many acronyms here at WTM maybe we could use CoCo for College Confidential or just spell it out.

 

CC was community college long before College Confidential existed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_Scholarship

  • Be enrolled as a degree-seeking student at an eligible public or private college or university or technical college in Georgia.

 

Does this mean you need to have a major, etc from the get-go?

 

 

 

 

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yea too many acronyms here at WTM maybe we could use CoCo for College Confidential or just spell it out.

 

CC was community college long before College Confidential existed.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOPE_Scholarship

  • Be enrolled as a degree-seeking student at an eligible public or private college or university or technical college in Georgia.

 

Does this mean you need to have a major, etc from the get-go?

 

You need to be enrolled in a program that leads to a degree for title IV aid. See https://ifap.ed.gov/150PercentDirectSubsidizedLoanLimitInfo/FAQ.html#MEP-Q11

 

We have had to recently concoct programs for pre-majors and admit all the undecided students to those majors. We can no longer have (for example) pre-nursing for people who plan to study nursing. Rather, they get admitted to a nondescript "health studies" degree. 

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Ok, it sounds like "take anything you want as long as we tick all the high school boxes as well" will continue to work as long as we're paying out of pocket and don't file an FAFSA.  Which is good, since it's working well for her, and the per credit hour rate ends up making it a reasonable option.

 

 

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I also don't understand the question, but in case it helps, there is a maximum of credits that transfer. Here, local private LAC will let you transfer only a certain amount from the public 4 year uni. You have to complete some number of credits at the degree granting institution, resulting in some extra credits which are perfectly good just not transferable owing to the hard number. I have not looked at the aid issue as it's irrelevant for us.

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But since DD is their first student to ever be admitted so early, they don't have a lot of experience in this regard (they were kind of surprised that we didn't want to do the FAFSA and were willing to just pay out of pocket since she is scholarship eligible based on test scores-but hadn't thought about the fact that she wasn't a high school graduate, and that's also a requirement).

There is this grant and scholarship as well that might work for your daughter this fall for the grant and two years later for the scholarship.

https://www.tn.gov/collegepays/money-for-college/tn-education-lottery-programs.html

“Dual Enrollment Grant

TELS Dual Enrollment Grant Program - Eligible Institutions

The Dual Enrollment Grant program is defined as a grant for study at an eligible postsecondary institution that is funded from net proceeds of the state lottery and awarded to students who are attending an eligible high school and who are also enrolled in college courses at eligible postsecondary institutions for which they will receive college credit.

 

Middle College Scholarship

Beginning with the Fall 2018 semester, the Middle College Scholarship is established and funded from proceeds of the state lottery and awarded to high school Juniors and Seniors enrolled full-time at an eligible postsecondary institution. Students must complete the Middle College Scholarship, be a TN resident and obtained a minimum 3.0 high school GPA at the end of the Sophomore yearâ€

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The DE grant is the one my BK is on. It covers 4 classes in junior/senior year entirely, and four more at 50% off if you qualify for the HOPE, with the last four subtracted from your HOPE allotment. Even if they’d let her use it now, it’s more valuable down the road, especially since UTK is one of the top Herpetology schools out there, and we have multiple undergrad schools with strong undergrad research opportunities in Herpetology. The community college tuition is cheap. For UTK, we’d want the HOPE.

 

Middle college requires participating in an formal middle college or early college high school program, and you graduate with an AA. We’ve visited and talked the local one, and it would require that she do two years of high school coursework with them before being able to choose from a very, very limited list of programs, none of which are of interest (her college actually offers one, but only for Nursing and Business, and only on the downtown campus-it has two big campuses that used to be separate schools-the one she is on is mostly allied health and technology. Others are more trade based). They also require being on campus from 8:00-3:00 daily. One of the directors (the one at DD’s campus) really, really tried (we would have happily let them pay DD’s CC tuition and driven to the downtown campus and let them get credit for her test scores, in exchange for having a cohort of high school age kids on campus), but the charter they are under didn’t allow that flexibility.

 

TN is frustrating as any High school graduate or GED HiSET holder can get an AA tuition free, but DE is extremely limited, and theee is no provision for younger students at all. I really wish we has the equivalent of the CHSPE.

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