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Help me articulate to ds16 why this feels wrong


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I would feel like it's okay to ask the kids to send a form letter/email themselves for fundraising. That doesn't violate the privacy issues. Giving the addresses to the coach is really messed up though, for all the reasons already said. I get that they need to fundraise in some way. It's tough.

 

I greatly dislike mandatory fundraisers though. 

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Do the friends and family members know that their email addresses are being given to the school? Do the kids give them a heads up first and ask for permission? If the people aren't given an option to "opt in" themselves, the school could be running afoul of spam legislation. It's been a while since I've researched this, but it might be worth mentioning to administration.

 

I'd rather get a message from the student even if it's a form letter written by the school with minimal tweaking for personalization.

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I have three email addresses - I do have one for junk. few people i know irl even know I have that one.  I doubt dh knows, and or even my computer geeky kids.     that means - if someone were doing this, they'd be using one of my other addys.  one for friends/family - one for business.    it's frustrating when I have that murky middle area, and no good place to stash them.

 

I'm constantly going through and unsubbing from things to which I've been added.  I report phishing spam to my friends/family (and get very little junk on that address).   I'm angry when people *I know* have obviously included my email in a mass email to people I don't know. (have they heard of BCC?  it's there for a reason). it is my personal information, and I want control over who has it.   (re:businesses are not allowed to share it without permission)  

 

if someone asks me for my email - I can choose which one I give them.  if they are "friends/family" - and they give that one to someone who only wants it to solicit me for money, I will be angry, and no longer someone I can trust to have respect for private information.  if they use my business email - I'll be annoyed, and consider them lacking in discretion and/or professionalism.  I'll never trust them with my friends/family email.

 

I've received email solicitations of this type from a family member.  It ticked me off, and was one more check mark against this person on why I have so little trust or respect for them. 

 

 

Personally I would much rather that someone I don't know/trust have my email address than my phone number or street address (and I'm assuming that fundraising means they'd need at least one of those three, but I suppose that depends on the type of fundraiser).  Blocking an email sender that I don't want to receive further emails from takes like 5 seconds (I don't unsubscribe, that takes longer.  I just block the sender).  Reporting an email as spam takes three clicks.  It's just not a big deal to me.

 

When scouts come to my door selling cookies/popcorn, they already know where I live, but they ask me to fill out the form with my name, street address, and phone number.  It doesn't strike me as particularly invasive, because I know they want to be able to find me again when the order arrives. But really, that information is a lot more personal/invasive/private/whatever than an email address.

 

I certainly agree that people need to use BCC more often!

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Personally I would much rather that someone I don't know/trust have my email address than my phone number or street address

 

I don't want them to have any of my information.

 

at least if they are sending a letter - the kids can address and stuff the envelope, then mail it, themselves; and the school never gets the address.

 

just because of how much I detest this type of "fundraiser", I wouldn't give on principle.

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just because of how much I detest this type of "fundraiser", I wouldn't give on principle.

 

 

Yes, I'm not a big fan of these types of fundraisers either, and I don't give money for sports.  Sports, in my experience, get quite enough in the way of funding, support, and general adoration as it is.  I'd rather give to the less popular programs.  Or the basic classroom necessities!  

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First thing I would do  is set up 20 dummy email accounts. 

 

Yes I would rather get an email than a phone call or other instrusive solicitation.  However, I would not appreciate someone else giving my email, phone number, or address out without my permission.  It would be one thing, if the young person I knew, sent me a solicitation personally.  It would be another for that young person (or their parent) to go through their parent's files (email, real address, or even phone number) and give it to a person, business, or otherwise that I don't even know.

 

I have several friends that do product parties.  My friends have always sent out a personal request, and then I can choose to "sign up" at which time I provide my contact info.  It becomes MY choice to share MY information.

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I would call the school and insist the coach be fired.  I'm not kidding. I know it wouldn't happen, but I'd do it.  That's someone who is going to collectively punish students who don't participate in violating social boundaries. If someone had sent my private info (email or snail mail)  to the school or anyone else for solicitation and I found out about it, I would explain to my friend that it was a boundary violation and if it ever happened again the friendship would end.   I don't tolerate that kind of crap. I can't imagine any of my friends doing such an outrageous thing.

I have had church members pull that crap using the church directory to solicit tax deductions by snail mail for private schools in their kids' names. I left that church. When a former church member added me to her FB group without permission for her MLM I told her to remove it and to not add me again without my request or permission and that I wouldn't be doing it myself because I hadn't asked to join in the first place.  Everything should be opt in, and nothing should be opt out on principle. She did and hasn't added me back.  I now block anyone on FB who has an MLM they post about on FB.  I did the same with another homeschool mom who added me to a political/social issue group without asking first.  I told her to remove me.  She did. We still chat and do things together socially and she hasn't added me to anything else since.

I have only ever asked my child's grandparents for funds in youngest's fundraising once a year for $20. (The grandparents have all asked about contributing.)  I don't think it's right to ask family, friends, and acquaintances for money for my kids' activities.  If we can't afford it on our own we don't sign up. We don't ask for contributions to vacations, entertainment, academics, food clothing, hobbies, electronics,getting/supporting a pet, etc. unless they have specifically asked me, "What do they want for Xmas/birthday?  Are they saving up for something we can contribute to?" Same for enrichment/extra curricular activities. 

We're already bombarded with people who ask for money for:

Private school tax deductions
Public school tax deductions
MLMs
Sports
School trips to somewhere across the country
Dance competitions
Livestock show travel fundraisers
Church camps
Church mission trips
Music camp
Science camp

adoption
Band
 
I don't mean one person in each category either.  For example, I'm talking half a dozen in the MLM category and half a dozen in the private school tax deduction category. (This is soooo common in my branch of evangelicalism.)  I have my own kids' stuff to pay for, so you can pay for your kids' stuff.  If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Find something else for them to do.

Want to raise money?  Then help the kid start a legitimate business and sell something people actually want and seek out without having to be asked to buy it. Let the Girl Scouts be your inspiration. I told the Girl Scout in our life, "Honey, as soon as I can order cookies, you come over."  Can't think of a legitimate business?  Sorry. Cut your own personal  budget, get a side gig, have your kid advertise themselves as manual labor, or find something for your kid to do that fits your current budget.

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Why,....Because we don't spam our friends!  

 

 

DD was involved in high school sports for years.  The past few years, this was a common fundraising event and I think it will become more and more common.  

 

I just created fake email addresses on free websites and gave those.  If you do this, write down the ones you make and use them year after year. 

 

One of dd's coaches tried to threaten the cheerleaders that she would make them do a Sunday early morning practice if they didn't participate.  I turned her into the athletic director, with a copy of the violation in high school sports code that made it against code for the coach to threaten them.  The Sunday practice was never mentioned again.

 

DD19 is normal a very sweet girl but she is quick witted and sassy when backed into a corner.  When the coach was telling the girls about this fundraiser, dd asked i a serious tone if it was ok to give prison email addresses, because most of her extended family was incarcerated. LOL  She said the coach just looked at her in disbelief. LOL   DD knows that there is NO way I would give out other's email addresses because only about 10 people have mine. I guard it closely and question anyone who asks for it about why they want it.  I very rarely give mine out and if someone did use it for such a fundraiser, I would block them permanently and they would likely not get a graduation gift from me for selling me out to a fundraising company. (Anyone who has my email, knows how I feel about spammers, so they would be giving it out knowing i would be upset about it.)

Edited by Tap
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Okay, apparently I'm alone here, but I'm going to admit that I really don't understand.  Email is pretty much the least intrusive way I can think of to contact someone.  Email is great because I can check it at my convenience, instead of having to drop what I'm doing to answer the phone or, worst of all, the doorbell.  When I was a kid, we did our fundraisers in person, so that meant going to people's houses.  Honestly, I would MUCH rather you shoot me an email than show up at my door.  That way, as I said, I can read it when it's convenient for me.  And, also, it's easier to say no by email (just hit delete and move on - no big deal!) than face to face, so there's less concern that you're pressuring people to do something they don't really want to do.  Seems like a win-win to me.  

 

I don't mind getting solicitation emails, for the most part, because I just delete them and that is that.  I am fine with kids on my kids' team emailing me or calling me or leaving a flyer on my door or whatever, that is fine.

 

But, and here's the rub, I don't get to decide for other people whether they are willing to have someone they don't know email them (or call them, or come to their house) to ask for money.  I can make that decision for my own private information, but not for someone else's information that they gave to me for a purpose other than inviting solicitation.  Thinking you can make that decision for other people is inconsiderate; insisting that a bunch of kids, who may or may not yet know that it is inconsiderate, do it anyway or suffer punishment, is very poor behavior.

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When my kids were on the high school team the fundraiser was every family was responsible for raising a minimum of $25 You could pay it or your child could solicit to raise the funds. I had them ask grandparents for the practice in talking to people.

 

Giving out email addresses to the school. Absolutely not. If the school wants to give me a form letter to email and ask for donations that is fine.

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I would tell the principal, superintendent and coach that this violates our family’s ethics, so I hope they are all up for a good run ! If I had access to other team parent emails, or a district or school wide discussion group, I would blast it there too. Other parents may feel the same way. Be bold !

 

Now I have a real keyboard, and I'm editing to add that I would first have a discussion with the coach about my objections.  There should be some understanding and suggestion of an alternative that would satisfy the requirement, and for the coach to get the message that it's not okay to punish players over a parent's decision on this.  However, if the coach isn't willing to be flexible, see above. 

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Why,....Because we don't spam our friends!

 

 

DD was involved in high school sports for years. The past few years, this was a common fundraising event and I think it will become more and more common.

 

I just created fake email addresses on free websites and gave those. If you do this, write down the ones you make and use them year after year.

 

One of dd's coaches tried to threaten the cheerleaders that she would make them do a Sunday early morning practice if they didn't participate. I turned her into the athletic director, with a copy of the violation in high school sports code that made it against code for the coach to threaten them. The Sunday practice was never mentioned again.

 

DD19 is normal a very sweet girl but she is quick witted and sassy when backed into a corner. When the coach was telling the girls about this fundraiser, dd asked i a serious tone if it was ok to give prison email addresses, because most of her extended family was incarcerated. LOL She said the coach just looked at her in disbelief. LOL DD knows that there is NO way I would give out other's email addresses because only about 10 people have mine. I guard it closely and question anyone who asks for it about why they want it. I very rarely give mine out and if someone did use it for such a fundraiser, I would block them permanently and they would likely not get a graduation gift from me for selling me out to a fundraising company. (Anyone who has my email, knows how I feel about spammers, so they would be giving it out knowing i would be upset about it.)

I love your daughter's response!

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As every else has said by now, it's just wrong to give someone else's private info away like that.  I wouldn't like that at all if someone did that with mine.  I've never heard of a school or club doing that!  It really surprises me that others have said that they've seen this happening.  I think it bothers me just as much that he's also threatening that the whole team will suffer if one person doesn't do this.  That's kind of low down and dirty.  

 

I don't mind that fundraising needs to be a part of school and community clubs sometimes and I don't mind supporting them, but there's a better way of doing it.  Did the coach inform the boys/families that fundraising would be a requirement of being on the team before they committed?  Generally clubs have a statement that says that if they don't want to participate in required fundraising, then they can pay a fee instead.  And the fundraising that is done is ethical and carefully thought through.  Not just collecting a bunch of personal email addresses and asking for money.

 

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Frankly I'd go to the school board & have them create a rule that bans unethical fundraising, including mandatory player participation AND anything that violates laws for businesses, and perhaps coach involvement too.

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I don't mind getting solicitation emails, for the most part, because I just delete them and that is that.  I am fine with kids on my kids' team emailing me or calling me or leaving a flyer on my door or whatever, that is fine.

 

But, and here's the rub, I don't get to decide for other people whether they are willing to have someone they don't know email them (or call them, or come to their house) to ask for money.  I can make that decision for my own private information, but not for someone else's information that they gave to me for a purpose other than inviting solicitation.  Thinking you can make that decision for other people is inconsiderate; insisting that a bunch of kids, who may or may not yet know that it is inconsiderate, do it anyway or suffer punishment, is very poor behavior.

 

 

Yes, I agree with your point!  I don't see why they couldn't just have the kids email friends and family themselves rather than handing over a list.  

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I agree it's a violation of privacy. How would I explain this to a teen, where there is a different sense of "privacy." Phone numbers, emails, etc, seem to get exchanged more freely than among adults - especially those of us of a certain age. 

 

For 1: I do not want to receive solicitations in my email box. For one, I gave that email to a specific person for a specific purpose. I have several emails accounts that I use for different purposes, professional, school, personal. yes, I can delete it or ignore it, but my digital world is messy and I've been working on scaling it back, especially junk emails. In fact email is one of those areas that is irritating me lately. 

 

2. I have no idea who this coach is and I don't know whether to trust him with my information. You (your child) may trust him, but I don't know him. Please don't share my private information with someone I do not know. 

 

3. I find the coercion tactic stupid and ineffective. I have strong opinions about fundraising, but if it must be done, there are many ways that put the onus on the student to contact individuals. 

 

4. I personally, as a parent, do not want to deal with follow up questions from people who received that email. Even the simple, "Hey EL, I got a email from ds' coach...is it really his coach? We'd be happy to support him, but we're broke/going on vacation soon and can't afford it/building a house/dealing with medical bills, etc. etc. etc." or "Hey, I'd prefer you not give out my email for stuff like that. If ds wants support, he needs to talk to me." ...It's just going to make more work for the parent from people who will verify that the request is going to help your child. 

 

5. My circle of friends and family is my private information. It's none of his business who they are, much less giving him a way to contact them. 

 

 

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