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Help me articulate to ds16 why this feels wrong


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Ds16 is on the jv baseball team. They have a "fundraiser" that requires each team player to submit 20 email addresses of friends and family. These friends/family members are then sent an email from the school requesting donations. Coaches warn the team that any player not submitting these addresses will be responsible for the "punishment" of the entire team (running laps, etc.).

 

I've instructed my son to NOT send any emails to my personal friends. I find it....tacky...to say the least. He is, of course, NOT happy with me and cannot understand why it is "such a big deal".

 

He managed to come up with a list that didn't include family members or family friends, but I'd still like to articulate to him why this bothers me so....

 

Help!

Also, is isn't a JAWM. If you feel this is a legit way to earn money, by all means, share your thoughts!

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It feels wrong to me too  - maybe compare it to an MLM? 

 

Another thought - ask friends if you can use their e-mail and give them a heads up to ignore it. I'll PM you my e-mail address if you want and I'll happily ignore a solicitation e-mail. I don't think anyone should get punished for this - seems unnecessarily harsh. 

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Honestly, I don’t think coaches should be permitted to require students to provide other people’s private information.

 

Is the school administration aware of this? I can’t imagine that this sort of thing is allowed. I would be very tempted to call the school principal and let him or her know what I think of this situation!

Edited by Catwoman
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It's rude to give out anyone's personal information without their permission. Including email, imo. Unless it's something you know they want to hear about, and believe me, no one is dying to get another fund raising request. People are absolutely bombarded with those. This feels much more high pressure than say, posting on your Facebook that the team is raising money.

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I would make a huge gigantic fuss with the school and the team.

 

You can't punish a kid because he refuses to sell out his family members and give away their privacy.

 

Businesses aren't allowed (unless they inform you when you give it to them) to give away your email address and contact info to other businesses or entities to solicit you.  It's actually illegal.  To force kids to do something that most people recognize as so wrong that they have made it illegal for businesses to do is a stupid double standard and bad messaging.

 

As for what to tell your DS - tell him that he doesn't have the right to decide who contacts or doesn't contact his friends and family to solicit money.  They didn't give him their contact information with the expectation that he would give it to a stranger to send them spam, and he cannot, morally, give away their private information like that.

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Wow. Unless you get their permission first, it seems like a privacy issue. I do volunteer stuff, and we can only use a person's info or share their info if we get express permission first. I dont know whose idea this was, but I think it is skirting a legal line.

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There are major privacy issues here. Have the coach write this request down, and then bring this to the baseball association your son plays for. If this is not a written request, then do not comply. This is not right to be asking minors to do, and the association could get in trouble for using or selling these addresses without the owners' consent. 

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I can understand why it feels wrong to you, but I've seen this frequently with sports teams.  When we were growing up, we were told to ask our friends and family for donation, but by verbally asking or via snail mail.  It's pretty much the same to me.  I guess if you don't want your ds to ask friends and family for donations, you or your ds will need to fork out the money?  What other choices does the team have for raising funds?  

 

I'm not sure if this is a privacy issue.  Companies sell my email to other companies all the time.  My inbox is clear evidence of that.

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I just can't even believe they have made this request.

 

Or maybe I can.  When DD12 was in 2nd grade, they had a fundraiser that involved giving up your family and friends' email addresses and phone numbers and etc.  There was no punishment if you didn't, but if you did, you  got a stuffed penguin (in class, in front of the other kids).  Of course every other kid in class brought in the email addresses, because the vast majority of people are inconsiderate.

 

I wrote a long and very angry letter to her teacher (to be passed on to the administration, as I knew the teacher had no choice in the matter).  Of course they had the same fundraiser the next year.

 

 

Oooh, it makes me mad to think about.

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I can understand why it feels wrong to you, but I've seen this frequently with sports teams.  When we were growing up, we were told to ask our friends and family for donation, but by verbally asking or via snail mail.  It's pretty much the same to me.  I guess if you don't want your ds to ask friends and family for donations, you or your ds will need to fork out the money?  What other choices does the team have for raising funds?  

 

I'm not sure if this is a privacy issue.  Companies sell my email to other companies all the time.  My inbox is clear evidence of that.

 

Yes, it is a privacy issue.  There is always a privacy clause that needs to be agreed to before companies can sell e-mail addresses. Have a read through a privacy clause before you agree to it in the future. It's eye opening. 

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I can understand why it feels wrong to you, but I've seen this frequently with sports teams.  When we were growing up, we were told to ask our friends and family for donation, but by verbally asking or via snail mail.  It's pretty much the same to me.  I guess if you don't want your ds to ask friends and family for donations, you or your ds will need to fork out the money?  What other choices does the team have for raising funds?  

 

I'm not sure if this is a privacy issue.  Companies sell my email to other companies all the time.  My inbox is clear evidence of that.

 

Companies cannot sell your email unless you've given them permission to do so.  They cannot.

 

Asking someone for a donation is not, actually, the same thing as giving away their private information to someone else to ask for a donation.  

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You asked for help explaining to him why this is wrong, so here's my two cents. People tend to consider their email addresses as fairly private. Because I share my address with a friend, does not mean I'm giving permission for that friend to pass it along to strangers, particularly for the purpose of soliciting money. There are so many scams, phishing attempts, etc. out there. I would not look favorably on a friend who violated my privacy in that way. If I felt I had to provide addresses, I'd use publicly available email addresses for the school board members and school administrators and follow up with a complaint. Perhaps being on the receiving end of that kind of stuff would help them put an end to such fundraisers.

 

I doubt the coach would appreciate his personal email address being shared for such things.

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I think what feels wrong is giving the emails to the school. That feels like an invasion of privacy. I would be more ok with a coach that asked each to contact 20 people personally to ask for donation. I don’t like mandatory fundraising anyway but if it is going to be done I think the kid needs to be the one doing it personally not just Hibbing the school a list of names.

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And it doesn't matter whether your DS would care if he got spam emails from 20 different companies, or robocalls from 20 different charities, or whatever - he might care or he might not.  It doesn't matter, because giving away someone else's information is making that decision (whether they would care) for them, and it is rude at least and morally reprehensible at worst.

 

Now he could do this: he could call or email all of these people individually and say hey, my school wants to send you solicitation emails for fundraising for my baseball team.  Can I give them your private email address so they can send you these emails?

 

That would be rude, but it would be less rude than doing it without asking.

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That's disgusting on so many levels.

 

1. It's to support a team, isn't it, not a charity, not like runs to support xyz cancer research. Even then, you send out emails, you don't give addresses to an organization.

 

2. It makes an unequal commitment -- people who have multiple grandparents, etc who would support anything vs people without such resources.

 

3. Are these addresses for one time use?

 

4. If kids are doing fundraising, they should call on an actual telephone to ask or handwrite a personal appeal, put it in an envelope, and mail it. Providing an email address only is a cop out with the kids doing essentially no work.

 

5. You don't use your friends for marketing purposes. Just no.

 

6. What is the money being used for? Is this common in your school?

 

Personally, I would create a bunch of gmail or other accounts with made up names and submit them.

 

Who came up with punishment? What on earth do these coaches do for a living IRL? Organized crime?

 

This is what our school does for team fundraisers:

 

1. When you sign up, you check a box indicating whether or not you want emails about the support groups, or whatever you call them. I always say yes.

 

2. Then I get an email from the group of parents -- never the coaches-- who run the group, asking if I would like to donate xx dollars (or more, or less) but emphasizing that it is completely voluntary, no penalties if you don't, no special recognition if you do.

 

3. For cross country, there is a team dinner, simple pasta at the school, for all kids.

 

4. For track, a bigger sport, there is a dinner at a local restaurant, free to those who donated, modest cost to those who did not.

 

5. At no point is there any move to show which students' families have donated and which not.

 

6. Never do coaches fundraise, only parents. I think it may be against school policy. Makes sense, as coaches get a gift at final dinner.

 

7. No one ever asks family other than parents to give anything.

 

8. All permission for any fundraising, such as hurricane relief, has to go through a school approval process.

 

With some new sports that were just getting started, parents contributed until sports got off the ground enough to be funded by school. But I knew these parents and never was asked for $$.

 

ETA

I liked every post here. Privacy, yes, of course.

Edited by Alessandra
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I would make a huge gigantic fuss with the school and the team.

 

You can't punish a kid because he refuses to sell out his family members and give away their privacy.

 

Businesses aren't allowed (unless they inform you when you give it to them) to give away your email address and contact info to other businesses or entities to solicit you.  It's actually illegal.  To force kids to do something that most people recognize as so wrong that they have made it illegal for businesses to do is a stupid double standard and bad messaging.

 

As for what to tell your DS - tell him that he doesn't have the right to decide who contacts or doesn't contact his friends and family to solicit money.  They didn't give him their contact information with the expectation that he would give it to a stranger to send them spam, and he cannot, morally, give away their private information like that.

 

 

This, absolutely.  Not only would he not be submitting email addresses, but I'd be making a pretty big stink about it with the administration.  Totally unacceptable.  

 

It's one thing for a kid to personally contact family and friends for donations, usually in exchange for cheap chocolate or similar.  It's another to sell them out to a school who may or may not spam those people for every team and every club and every anything under the sun.    

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That's disgusting on so many levels.

 

 

Personally, I would create a bunch of gmail or other accounts with made up names and submit them.

 

Who came up with punishment? What on earth do these coaches do for a living IRL? Organized crime?

 

 

 

 

i like the diabolical mindset.

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This is so common here. Every team sport seems to require it, school or little league or whatever.

I didn’t play sports growing up, but DH did. He said then they asked for people’s actual addresses.

 

I don’t mind fundraising but the email thing annoys me. I don’t really consider my email address private, but I’d prefer other types of fundraising.

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It feels wrong to me too - maybe compare it to an MLM?

 

Another thought - ask friends if you can use their e-mail and give them a heads up to ignore it. I'll PM you my e-mail address if you want and I'll happily ignore a solicitation e-mail. I don't think anyone should get punished for this - seems unnecessarily harsh.

Amanda-

You are very kind to offer up your email. Even with your permission, I couldn't use it in good consience! Lol!

I like the idea of giving everyone on the list a heads up.

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Maybe the good old fashioned "How would you like to be on the receiving end for these emails?" is a good place to start.

 

Since he might not care, ask does he think [insert Names of person that he likes and wouldn't want to annoy] would care?

 

Personally, if I couldn't afford to fund my kids "quota", then I would just frown at the annoyance and tell him that him that he should reach out to the people whose email he wants to submit, explain that their is no obligation to buy anything/donate, but ask their permission to give out their email address.

 

Once he's gotten all the legitimate email addresses that he can, he should just create dummy accounts and submit those addresses to make up the difference.

Edited by Gil
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Honestly, I don’t think coaches should be permitted to require students to provide other people’s private information.

 

Is the school administration aware of this? I can’t imagine that this sort of thing is allowed. I would be very tempted to call the school principal and let him or her know what I think of this situation!

Yes, they are absolutely aware of it. The team did this "fundraiser" last year and since we were new, we grudgingly obliged. I was ashamed and embarrassed, to be honest. I felt backed into a corner. No, I don't want to give out this information, but no, I don't want my kid, who is new to the team, earn the ultimate reputation for not "playing the game" because his mom drew the line. Ugh! This year I'm a little bolder and have that "40-something" rage going (another thread 😄) so I am quite honestly thinking of making my concerns known. I just need to figure out the best way to do so.

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I can understand why it feels wrong to you, but I've seen this frequently with sports teams. When we were growing up, we were told to ask our friends and family for donation, but by verbally asking or via snail mail. It's pretty much the same to me. I guess if you don't want your ds to ask friends and family for donations, you or your ds will need to fork out the money? What other choices does the team have for raising funds?

 

I'm not sure if this is a privacy issue. Companies sell my email to other companies all the time. My inbox is clear evidence of that.

This is the only fundraiser they are choosing to do this year because all the others they have done in the past (you know, ones that require the kids to actually "work" for it) were too much trouble. This said by the coach at the parent meeting.

 

This is a small, well-to-do community. These kids have brand new fields, brand new everything, to play on. Any fundraising they do is to add more bells and whistles on to the program. I don't necessarily have a beef with that particular aspect, but just thought I would add that.

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You asked for help explaining to him why this is wrong, so here's my two cents. People tend to consider their email addresses as fairly private. Because I share my address with a friend, does not mean I'm giving permission for that friend to pass it along to strangers, particularly for the purpose of soliciting money. There are so many scams, phishing attempts, etc. out there. I would not look favorably on a friend who violated my privacy in that way. If I felt I had to provide addresses, I'd use publicly available email addresses for the school board members and school administrators and follow up with a complaint. Perhaps being on the receiving end of that kind of stuff would help them put an end to such fundraisers.

 

I doubt the coach would appreciate his personal email address being shared for such things.

Yellowrose- thank you! â¤ï¸

This is perfect. I'm using it as the foundation from which I'm going to build my discussion with ds. After I add on everyone else's input, this is going to be one heck of an amazing articulation of my BEEF! Lol!

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Eternalsummer.....you nailed it with this quote...

And it doesn't matter whether your DS would care if he got spam emails from 20 different companies, or robocalls from 20 different charities, or whatever - he might care or he might not. It doesn't matter, because giving away someone else's information is making that decision (whether they would care) for them, and it is rude at least and morally reprehensible at worst.

 

Thank you!

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That's disgusting on so many levels.

 

1. It's to support a team, isn't it, not a charity, not like runs to support xyz cancer research. Even then, you send out emails, you don't give addresses to an organization.

 

2. It makes an unequal commitment -- people who have multiple grandparents, etc who would support anything vs people without such resources.

 

3. Are these addresses for one time use?

 

4. If kids are doing fundraising, they should call on an actual telephone to ask or handwrite a personal appeal, put it in an envelope, and mail it. Providing an email address only is a cop out with the kids doing essentially no work.

 

5. You don't use your friends for marketing purposes. Just no.

 

6. What is the money being used for? Is this common in your school?

 

Personally, I would create a bunch of gmail or other accounts with made up names and submit them.

 

Who came up with punishment? What on earth do these coaches do for a living IRL? Organized crime?

 

This is what our school does for team fundraisers:

 

1. When you sign up, you check a box indicating whether or not you want emails about the support groups, or whatever you call them. I always say yes.

 

2. Then I get an email from the group of parents -- never the coaches-- who run the group, asking if I would like to donate xx dollars (or more, or less) but emphasizing that it is completely voluntary, no penalties if you don't, no special recognition if you do.

 

3. For cross country, there is a team dinner, simple pasta at the school, for all kids.

 

4. For track, a bigger sport, there is a dinner at a local restaurant, free to those who donated, modest cost to those who did not.

 

5. At no point is there any move to show which students' families have donated and which not.

 

6. Never do coaches fundraise, only parents. I think it may be against school policy. Makes sense, as coaches get a gift at final dinner.

 

7. No one ever asks family other than parents to give anything.

 

8. All permission for any fundraising, such as hurricane relief, has to go through a school approval process.

 

With some new sports that were just getting started, parents contributed until sports got off the ground enough to be funded by school. But I knew these parents and never was asked for $$.

 

ETA

I liked every post here. Privacy, yes, of course.

Alessandra- I like the way your school does fundraising....think I will share that with the school. I agree with every point you posted, especially 4 and 5. It IS a cop out. These kiddos are doing NOTHING to raise these funds whatsoever. And no, friends are not to be used for personal gain, which I feel this reeks of.

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Honestly, I don’t think coaches should be permitted to require students to provide other people’s private information.

 

Is the school administration aware of this? I can’t imagine that this sort of thing is allowed. I would be very tempted to call the school principal and let him or her know what I think of this situation!

I agree!

 

The students should not be contributing email addresses of people who have not given their permission.

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I would make a huge gigantic fuss with the school and the team.

 

You can't punish a kid because he refuses to sell out his family members and give away their privacy.

 

Businesses aren't allowed (unless they inform you when you give it to them) to give away your email address and contact info to other businesses or entities to solicit you. It's actually illegal. To force kids to do something that most people recognize as so wrong that they have made it illegal for businesses to do is a stupid double standard and bad messaging.

 

As for what to tell your DS - tell him that he doesn't have the right to decide who contacts or doesn't contact his friends and family to solicit money. They didn't give him their contact information with the expectation that he would give it to a stranger to send them spam, and he cannot, morally, give away their private information like that.

You took the right out of my mouth. I am blown away a school would do this.

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Ds16 is on the jv baseball team. They have a "fundraiser" that requires each team player to submit 20 email addresses of friends and family. These friends/family members are then sent an email from the school requesting donations. Coaches warn the team that any player not submitting these addresses will be responsible for the "punishment" of the entire team (running laps, etc.).

 

I've instructed my son to NOT send any emails to my personal friends. I find it....tacky...to say the least. He is, of course, NOT happy with me and cannot understand why it is "such a big deal".

 

He managed to come up with a list that didn't include family members or family friends, but I'd still like to articulate to him why this bothers me so....

 

Help!

Also, is isn't a JAWM. If you feel this is a legit way to earn money, by all means, share your thoughts!

You know, I was probably the lone dissenter, but I can see my mistake now.  I guess that it is an invasion of privacy, but what are the options?  Yes, you can disagree with it and even talk to the coaches about it, but is there something that you can do to change the fundraiser?  I do believe the punitive nature of the threat is definitely over the line.  I guess if it was my son I would ask my friends and family for their permission to share the email addresses.  

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I think what feels wrong is giving the emails to the school. That feels like an invasion of privacy. I would be more ok with a coach that asked each to contact 20 people personally to ask for donation. I don’t like mandatory fundraising anyway but if it is going to be done I think the kid needs to be the one doing it personally not just Hibbing the school a list of names.

Yes, this.

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You know, I was probably the lone dissenter, but I can see my mistake now. I guess that it is an invasion of privacy, but what are the options? Yes, you can disagree with it and even talk to the coaches about it, but is there something that you can do to change the fundraiser? I do believe the punitive nature of the threat is definitely over the line. I guess if it was my son I would ask my friends and family for their permission to share the email addresses.

I guess at the very least I would like to see this as optional. To be required to submit a minimum of 20 emails to avoid consequences is not okay. I mean, some kids might have 20 family members they can feel comfortable giving, but we don't. And even if we did, it's just...I don't know. It doesn't sit well with me at all. 😄

Other than that I'm not sure there is anything I can do to actually change the fundraiser.

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Honestly, I don’t think coaches should be permitted to require students to provide other people’s private information.

 

Is the school administration aware of this? I can’t imagine that this sort of thing is allowed. I would be very tempted to call the school principal and let him or her know what I think of this situation!

I agree, it's sort of a spamming campaign.

 

I remember a thread about this very thing a few years back. OP, maybe you could search for that one, too, for insight.

 

FWIW, a lot of people have "burner" sort of email accounts these days, accounts they rarely even monitor to share for marketing junk. It's got to be really crowded out there in cyberspace!!!

Edited by Seasider
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First off, I want to say that I've been involved with school organizations, sports organizations, boy scouts, girl scouts, religious organizations and civic organizations and I've never encountered a fundraiser that had mandatory participation.  The only place I've every even heard of that is on these boards.  Usually people pick and choose what they want to participate in.  Sometimes people never participate and that is ok they usually just have to pay their way for events or activities.  

 

  I have encountered this solicitation type of fundraiser before and people who do participate usually pick one of three options.  The first is that they give out the e-mails of their family and/or friends.  Some people just don't see it as a problem.  The second is that the parents usually agree to just use each others e-mail addresses, so if there are 10 kids on the team each child will use the addresses of the other ten parents.  That way instead of say donating $10 to your child you would donate $1 to each of the other kids.  This satisfies the requirement to win any kind of prize or incentive for submitting the names.  The third option is that sometimes people use the e-mail addresses of corporations or philanthropic organizations that might donate money for example communityoutreach @localsupermarket.com.  

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I would make a huge gigantic fuss with the school and the team.

 

You can't punish a kid because he refuses to sell out his family members and give away their privacy.

 

Businesses aren't allowed (unless they inform you when you give it to them) to give away your email address and contact info to other businesses or entities to solicit you. It's actually illegal. To force kids to do something that most people recognize as so wrong that they have made it illegal for businesses to do is a stupid double standard and bad messaging.

 

As for what to tell your DS - tell him that he doesn't have the right to decide who contacts or doesn't contact his friends and family to solicit money. They didn't give him their contact information with the expectation that he would give it to a stranger to send them spam, and he cannot, morally, give away their private information like that.

Brilliant!

 

OP, all you have to do now is hit the print button!

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I hate this, but my dc participate in something similar. They have mailers they are given to address. My kids send them but literally write on the mailers do not feel obligated to donate. They also send some mailers to their friends' animals, and our pets receive them as well.

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Okay, apparently I'm alone here, but I'm going to admit that I really don't understand.  Email is pretty much the least intrusive way I can think of to contact someone.  Email is great because I can check it at my convenience, instead of having to drop what I'm doing to answer the phone or, worst of all, the doorbell.  When I was a kid, we did our fundraisers in person, so that meant going to people's houses.  Honestly, I would MUCH rather you shoot me an email than show up at my door.  That way, as I said, I can read it when it's convenient for me.  And, also, it's easier to say no by email (just hit delete and move on - no big deal!) than face to face, so there's less concern that you're pressuring people to do something they don't really want to do.  Seems like a win-win to me.  

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Okay, apparently I'm alone here, but I'm going to admit that I really don't understand.  Email is pretty much the least intrusive way I can think of to contact someone.  Email is great because I can check it at my convenience, instead of having to drop what I'm doing to answer the phone or, worst of all, the doorbell.  When I was a kid, we did our fundraisers in person, so that meant going to people's houses.  Honestly, I would MUCH rather you shoot me an email than show up at my door.  That way, as I said, I can read it when it's convenient for me.  And, also, it's easier to say no by email (just hit delete and move on - no big deal!) than face to face, so there's less concern that you're pressuring people to do something they don't really want to do.  Seems like a win-win to me.  

 

I have three email addresses - I do have one for junk. few people i know irl even know I have that one.  I doubt dh knows, and or even my computer geeky kids.     that means - if someone were doing this, they'd be using one of my other addys.  one for friends/family - one for business.    it's frustrating when I have that murky middle area, and no good place to stash them.

 

I'm constantly going through and unsubbing from things to which I've been added.  I report phishing spam to my friends/family (and get very little junk on that address).   I'm angry when people *I know* have obviously included my email in a mass email to people I don't know. (have they heard of BCC?  it's there for a reason). it is my personal information, and I want control over who has it.   (re:businesses are not allowed to share it without permission)  

 

if someone asks me for my email - I can choose which one I give them.  if they are "friends/family" - and they give that one to someone who only wants it to solicit me for money, I will be angry, and no longer someone I can trust to have respect for private information.  if they use my business email - I'll be annoyed, and consider them lacking in discretion and/or professionalism.  I'll never trust them with my friends/family email.

 

I've received email solicitations of this type from a family member.  It ticked me off, and was one more check mark against this person on why I have so little trust or respect for them. 

Edited by gardenmom5
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