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'Poor' Professors


MarkT
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It should be noted that the salary situation depends very much on the field. In areas where the person could make large salaries in industry, faculty salaries do lag, but are still ahead of faculty salaries of degree holders whose qualifications would not lead to high paying industry jobs. Engineering professors make less than engineers who work for a company, but they make significantly more than English professors.

 

Nobody I know went into academia for the money.

 

Edited by regentrude
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Professors only work 9 months out of the year. So they earn 15% less per year, but they're working 25% less time.

 

My DH teaches math at a community college. He could make three times as much if he became a data analyst, but that would require moving near a large city and commuting, dealing with the high COL of that area, working in a competitive field, and possibly losing benefits if he had to switch companies or was let go. Being a teacher offers security, the ability to live basically wherever we want, a low stress work environment, and so, so much time off throughout the year.

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Professors only work 9 months out of the year. 

 

Professors (at four year schools at least) are supposed to be engaged in research and graduate student mentoring in addition to their teaching duties.  These things last year round.  At least they did for my father.

Edited by EKS
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Professors only work 9 months out of the year. So they earn 15% less per year, but they're working 25% less time.

 

That is not entirely correct.

They are required to teach classes during the 9 months academic year only. However, professors at 4 year institutions are working on research, including mentoring undergraduate and graduate students, year round. They use their unpaid summers to do that, attend conferences, etc. When they travel in summers, it is usually to attend workshops or collaborate with researchers at other institutions. If they are among the lucky few to win some increasingly scarce research grant funding from outside agencies, they may be paid for summers, but many are not.

Edited by regentrude
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My DH teaches math at a community college. He could make three times as much if he became a data analyst, but that would require moving near a large city and commuting, dealing with the high COL of that area, working in a competitive field, and possibly losing benefits if he had to switch companies or was let go. Being a teacher offers security, the ability to live basically wherever we want, a low stress work environment, and so, so much time off throughout the year.

 

The experience is completely different for professors at research institutions. They have absolutely NO control over where they live, because it is extremely competetive. If you are a researcher in a certain field, only very few positions exist in that area, and when one becomes available when you are job searching, you have to apply. You don't get to pick the city, or the state, or even the country.

Also, once you have the job, it is not a "low stress work environment".

 

It makes no sense to lump all post-secondary ed instructors into one category, because the realities of the jobs differ tremendously. Even at the same institution. For me as a teaching professor, work is reasonably low stress - but for my colleagues who are doing research and competing for grant funding, it's a completely different picture.

 

Edited by regentrude
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The experience is completely different for professors at research institutions. They have absolutely NO control over where they live, because it is extremely competetive. If you are a researcher in a certain field, only very few positions exist in that area, and when one becomes available when you are job searching, you have to apply. You don't get to pick the city, or the state, or even the country.

Also, once you have the job, it is not a "low stress work environment".

 

It makes no sense to lump all post-secondary ed instructors into one category, because the realities of the jobs differ tremendously. Even at the same institution. For me as a teaching professor, work is reasonably low stress - but for my colleagues who are doing research and competing for grant funding, it's a completely different picture.

 

Thanks. This accurately depicts my life living in an uninviting town, with a highly stressed, absentee dh teaching at a competitive, 4-year research institution. (Whom I love and who provides us with all we need including the ability to homeschool stress-free.)

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Professors only work 9 months out of the year. So they earn 15% less per year, but they're working 25% less time.

 

My DH teaches math at a community college. He could make three times as much if he became a data analyst, but that would require moving near a large city and commuting, dealing with the high COL of that area, working in a competitive field, and possibly losing benefits if he had to switch companies or was let go. Being a teacher offers security, the ability to live basically wherever we want, a low stress work environment, and so, so much time off throughout the year.

My husband taught at a LAC for many years and never had a summer off. He was expected to do research involving students every summer. Much of the holiday break was spent grading and then writing letters of recommendation. He taught the largest class on campus every semester with no TAs. The only true break was Spring Break. He worked 60-80 hours per week during the school year and at least 40 per week during the summer.

 

When he went back to school and switched to being a pharmacist, he doubled his salary and halved his hours. Now he finally has the time and money to pursue his hobbies and passions and still has plenty of down time. And he often teaches during the summer just for fun. Now we could truly live wherever we wanted, but that was definitely not true for us when he was in academia.

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During my growing up years, my dad was a professor. Having a professor as the main income earner in the family meant we didn't live in the lap of luxury, BUT my dad was around.

 

While he did work during the summer, he took lots of three- and four-day weekends in addition to actual vacations. He was there to drop me off at summer camp. He was there when the weather was too good for working and we took a spontaneous day trip. I had some medical issues that required lots of appointsments in "the big city" (about 45 minutes away), and he was the parent who took me to work with him for the day and then took me to doctors' appointments. His presence in my life was a gift that I wanted to pay on to my own kids.

 

I will never forget the shock I had when I first had a "real" job at a low-brow chemical consulting company and realized that these people had to clock in at 8:30, got thirty minutes for lunch, and then clocked out at 5:00 for fifty weeks a year. Even taking time out during the day to enjoy the solar eclipse was not allowed, and tardiness was punished. Somehow I thought that everyone had the flexibility my dad had!

 

Academia may not be the best-paying career path, but it comes with perks that are beyond value.

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Math at a CC lets you live wherever you want? Gosh, I'm applying for CC math jobs and *I* haven't seen that ... there are some places where I haven't seen a job open the last two seasons. 

 

I'm currently at a 4yr and I'm in my office a LOT. Yeah, I can go in at noon some days, but I also end up there until nearly midnight sometimes because things need to get done. 

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While he did work during the summer, he took lots of three- and four-day weekends in addition to actual vacations. He was there to drop me off at summer camp. He was there when the weather was too good for working and we took a spontaneous day trip. I had some medical issues that required lots of appointsments in "the big city" (about 45 minutes away), and he was the parent who took me to work with him for the day and then took me to doctors' appointments. His presence in my life was a gift that I wanted to pay on to my own kids.

 

I will never forget the shock I had when I first had a "real" job at a low-brow chemical consulting company and realized that these people had to clock in at 8:30, got thirty minutes for lunch, and then clocked out at 5:00 for fifty weeks a year. Even taking time out during the day to enjoy the solar eclipse was not allowed, and tardiness was punished. Somehow I thought that everyone had the flexibility my dad had!

 

Academia may not be the best-paying career path, but it comes with perks that are beyond value.

 

Yes, the flexibility is a very nice perk and much appreciated.

But OTOH, professors don't get to "clock out" at 5. The flexibility is paid for by long days and by bringing work home in the evenings and on weekends. And if both parents are in tenure track positions, by late nights and a constant sleep deficit.

Edited by regentrude
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What else is new?

 

It should be noted that the salary situation depends very much on the field. In areas where the person could make large salaries in industry, faculty salaries do lag, but are still ahead of faculty salaries of degree holders whose qualifications would not lead to high paying industry jobs. Engineering professors make less than engineers who work for a company, but they make significantly more than English professors.

 

Nobody I know went into academia for the money.

 

I'm not sure when you went in, but when I started in the public and non-profit sector, it was not a lot but it was enough.

 

It was enough to send your own children to a state college. It was enough to pay for one or two sports a year. It was enough to buy a modest, 100 - 50 year old house. It was enough to drive to a national park and camp there, or drive to a relative's place and camp there, and see a new city.

 

Maybe at your college, or in your city, it was never enough. Or maybe pay has kept up.

 

In our area, the issue is that it's no longer enough. Not for a fancy lifestyle with plane-trip vacations, but enough for saving for retirement and sending kids to college. Like, basic middle-class things that you are expected to manage. Not luxury, but basic things such as "can my child afford their sports uniform" or "can my child aspire to go to college at a top state college without a full scholarship" or "can we afford to not move due to rent hikes every year".

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I'm not sure when you went in, but when I started in the public and non-profit sector, it was not a lot but it was enough.

 

It was enough to send your own children to a state college. It was enough to pay for one or two sports a year. It was enough to buy a modest, 100 - 50 year old house. It was enough to drive to a national park and camp there, or drive to a relative's place and camp there, and see a new city.

 

Maybe at your college, or in your city, it was never enough. Or maybe pay has kept up.

 

In our area, the issue is that it's no longer enough. Not for a fancy lifestyle with plane-trip vacations, but enough for saving for retirement and sending kids to college. Like, basic middle-class things that you are expected to manage. Not luxury, but basic things such as "can my child afford their sports uniform" or "can my child aspire to go to college at a top state college without a full scholarship" or "can we afford to not move due to rent hikes every year".

 

Yes COL is an issue. The pay difference between professors in high COL and low COL areas is not sufficient to compensate for the difference in COL.

I happen to live in a low COL area, because this small rural town does not attract people. There was no real estate bubble because this is not a particularly desired part of the country and people don't flock in droves to live here, two hours from the nearest city. The PNW and CA are an entirely different story. 

ETA: But that is not an issue limited to college professors,but pertains to pretty much everybody.

Edited by regentrude
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Yes COL is an issue. The pay difference between professors in high COL and low COL areas is not sufficient to compensate for the difference in COL.

I happen to live in a low COL area, because this small rural town does not attract people. There was no real estate bubble because this is not a particularly desired part of the country and people don't flock in droves to live here, two hours from the nearest city. The PNW and CA are an entirely different story. 

ETA: But that is not an issue limited to college professors,but pertains to pretty much everybody.

 

Government salaries have not had any pay rises, however. In most high COL areas, private sector jobs have fueled the high COL, for obvious reasons. So going private sector, I've had no problems keeping up with inflation because they all work to attract good workers.

 

In the public sector, I think people are assumed to have a really high quality of life that makes up for not having enough money for rent, for example. It's distressing.

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There is a big "generation gap" from what I see with university professors. The ones in my parents' generation have it super-cushy. My godfather took a dean's job for a year in order to spike his pension because it was based on his final year's salary. His pension is more than a lot of the professors in my generation make with an active teaching and research load. :glare:

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There is a big "generation gap" from what I see with university professors. 

 

Yes, that is correct. Before the extreme budget cuts, promotions were accompanied by a pay raise, and there was a yearly raise pool. So the profs who are now 65+ years old managed to reach high salaries.

With the budget cuts in public higher ed, raises have been zero or less than inflation for over a decade, and people who were promoted in lean years only got a new title, but no pay raise. Consequently, younger professors at the same level of their career make less even in nominal dollars than the older people did at that same point in their careers, and that difference becomes even bigger when you account for inflation.

Edited by regentrude
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Yes, the flexibility is a very nice perk and much appreciated.

But OTOH, professors don't get to "clock out" at 5. The flexibility is paid for by long days and by bringing work home in the evenings and on weekends. And if both parents are in tenure track positions, by late nights and a constant sleep deficit.

That very much describes my husband’s experience. But my son did get to spend a lot of time on campus with his dad, so that was definitely a nice benefit. I know one family where he was a prof and she was an instructor and they brought their young kids and dogs to campus together every day.

 

I would have to say though that both of the non-academic professional jobs I’ve had as an adult have been very flexible with the added bonus of virtually never working more than 40 hours per week. And although in his hospital job my husband has to be there at very set times, he is paid for every single minute he is there and never brings any work home. Even if he goes in for a staff meeting or CPR recertification or any other reason on his day off, he is paid for that time.

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Yes, that is correct. Before the extreme budget cuts, promotions were accompanied by a pay raise, and there was a yearly raise pool. So the profs who are now 65+ years old managed to reach high salaries.

With the budget cuts in public higher ed, raises have been zero or less than inflation for over a decade, and people who were promoted in lean years only got a new title, but no pay raise. Consequently, younger professors at the same level of their career make less even in nominal dollars than the older people did at that same point in their careers, and that difference becomes even bigger when you account for inflation.

And at least in the sciences, it’s taking many people longer to actually get a tenure track job. So they are spending more of their early career years in low paying post-docs. At our undergrad LAC, none of the science profs had done post-docs. When my husband was applying about 20 years ago, they were encouraged but not required for most LAC jobs. Now at the local LAC, all the new science hires have at least one two-year postdoc. Edited by Frances
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Even as a 3/4 time adjunct, I wouldn't describe it as cushy. Because I teach online, I'm expected to log in seven days a week to answer questions and keep up with grading. In my field (web design), I perpetually have to be studying and learning.

 

That said, it's a great job for someone who wants flexibility. If there was a full-time job available, I would definitely apply.

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I have been strongly considering applying to work at a college.  Partly for the tuition break for my kids, and partly because I think I would be able to work there longer than I can work in K-12.  How many profs in their 60s do you see vs. K-12 teachers and personnel?

 

I would not be at PhD professor, I would be seeking an ESL or Academic Counseling position.  My current credentials would allow me to do that.

 

But we will see.  It is just a thought at the moment.

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Yes, the flexibility is a very nice perk and much appreciated.

But OTOH, professors don't get to "clock out" at 5. The flexibility is paid for by long days and by bringing work home in the evenings and on weekends. And if both parents are in tenure track positions, by late nights and a constant sleep deficit.

In some ways being a professor provides a lot of flexibility--I had no classes to teach on Friday, so I could accompany my mother to a doctor's appointment (but I will be paying the price tonight as I grade papers into the wee hours).  But, when I do have classes, there is no flexibility; if my children had a music concert on Wednesday night and I taught night class, I had to miss the concert.  If my cousin's wedding was on a weekend in which an MBA class I was teaching was scheduled, I had to miss the wedding; there is no choice of taking vacation time.  

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In some ways being a professor provides a lot of flexibility--I had no classes to teach on Friday, so I could accompany my mother to a doctor's appointment (but I will be paying the price tonight as I grade papers into the wee hours).  But, when I do have classes, there is no flexibility; if my children had a music concert on Wednesday night and I taught night class, I had to miss the concert.  If my cousin's wedding was on a weekend in which an MBA class I was teaching was scheduled, I had to miss the wedding; there is no choice of taking vacation time.  

 

Yes. And I can't just "call in a sub" either. 

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So what happens if a college instructor gets sick with the flu?

They just cancel those classes??

 

We had that happen this year. One professor out for a week with the flu, then another week for a family emergency, then our campus was closed for most of a week. They did have other faculty fill in for him when they could, but he was emailing assignments to students and will now have to restructure the loss of 1/5th of the course schedule. 

 

Unless they can find someone who can pick them up at the last minute, yep. 

 

Our school has been very strict about the flu this year, students do not need a doctor's note, they're excused absences across the board, they're urging students to stay home. I would assume they have a similar plea to faculty to stay home when sick. In that, from what I've seen, school is not much different than corporate jobs, people come to work when they are ill because no one can do their job. 

 

We're fortunate that some of our department's survey courses are taught online and lecture videos could be played if a professor is unable to make an in class portion. I did that last year several times for an instructor that had a weird time conflict. It's not ideal because it removes some of the connection, but it worked in a pinch.  

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We had that happen this year. One professor out for a week with the flu, then another week for a family emergency, then our campus was closed for most of a week. They did have other faculty fill in for him when they could, but he was emailing assignments to students and will now have to restructure the loss of 1/5th of the course schedule. 

 

 

Our school has been very strict about the flu this year, students do not need a doctor's note, they're excused absences across the board, they're urging students to stay home. I would assume they have a similar plea to faculty to stay home when sick. In that, from what I've seen, school is not much different than corporate jobs, people come to work when they are ill because no one can do their job. 

 

We're fortunate that some of our department's survey courses are taught online and lecture videos could be played if a professor is unable to make an in class portion. I did that last year several times for an instructor that had a weird time conflict. It's not ideal because it removes some of the connection, but it worked in a pinch.  

 

I wish my son's school were like this.  They are allowed 4 absences (quarter system) for ANY reason and then BAM!  Fail for the entire class.  It has been a huge issue this year with the flu running rampant.  Kids have been dragging themselves to class with fevers and spreading it like wildfire.  Parents have complained, but the school hasn't changed anything.

 

I told my son to go every single time he can so if he HAS to use them, he has them available.  Thankfully he has not missed any classes completely.  He has 2 marked as absent for an 8am class because he has been quite late twice.  I am ok with that.

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Sometimes a graduate student can step in.

 

My undergrad is a TA for an upper level math class and teaches it several times a semester when her prof has been traveling or sick.  I assumed all of the professors had T.A.s at the ready, but maybe that's just math.

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My undergrad is a TA for an upper level math class and teaches it several times a semester when her prof has been traveling or sick.  I assumed all of the professors had T.A.s at the ready, but maybe that's just math.

 

This varies massively by school. I have no TA for any class (there are no math graduate students either). Someone at (for example) a community college would also probably not have a TA. Even in graduate school, there were rarely TA's for any classes starting at the calculus 1 level. 

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My undergrad is a TA for an upper level math class and teaches it several times a semester when her prof has been traveling or sick. I assumed all of the professors had T.A.s at the ready, but maybe that's just math.

In my experience, most LACs don’t have TAs in the traditional sense. Some undergrads might help with grading or be part of department wide help sessions or assist with labs, but usually they are not doing all of the work of a regular TA. At my husband’s LAC, profs would try to cover for each other or class would be cancelled. For longer term unplanned absences, they would try to hire someone, usually either a grad/postdoctoral student from one of the universities in the area or sometimes a retired prof.

 

As a graduate student TA at a research university, I did fill in for profs when they were sick or traveling.

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So what happens if a college instructor gets sick with the flu?

They just cancel those classes??

 

Unless on her death bed, the instructor will try to drag herself to class and teach with the flu, or a day after surgery.

 

In a functional department, you can find substitutes for introductory courses which all instructors have the expertise to teach. In our department, we cover each other's classes when people travel for conferences etc. I have volunteered for plenty of substituting when my kids  were little, so that I'd have enough people owe me favors just in case my kids get sick. I am currently on jury duty, and I have arranged for a stand-by substitute in case I get called in. It's a pain, but we make it work.

 

In upper level classes it is not possible to substitute, because the knowledge is too specialized. The instructor will try to reschedule if it's a small class.

 

Sometimes it is possible to cover a class remotely. I have made videos for classes I was unable to teach in person, but that requires some advance notice and works for a planned surgery, but not a sudden illness.

 

Cancelling a class without replacement is the very last resort and almost never happens.

 

ETA: When a colleague had a stroke in the middle of the semester, we took turns covering her classes for several months. Not a single class got cancelled.

Edited by regentrude
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My undergrad is a TA for an upper level math class and teaches it several times a semester when her prof has been traveling or sick.  I assumed all of the professors had T.A.s at the ready, but maybe that's just math.

 

Not all courses have TAs, and even in those who do, having a TA who can grade assignments does not mean that TA would be qualified to teach the class. 

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In over 30 years of college teaching, I have seldom had a TA who could step in to cover a class.  For the few years I was teaching at a school where I did have a TA assigned, that did not necessarily mean the TA could step in and cover a class--I might be assigned a TA who was taking a class at the same time my class occurred.  Or, I was assigned a TA whose spoken English was so poor that it would not have been fair to the students to sit through a class.  

 

I have only had to cancel a class a couple of times in 30 years.  A few times I have had a colleague step in for me and I have stepped in for colleagues when possible.   I often wonder how some of my students will do when they are in the workforce and do not have unlimited sick and vacation days.   

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Cancelling a class without replacement is the very last resort and almost never happens.

 

 

 

Is this at all schools?  My sons attended our large state flagship university and they had many canceled classes - one professor in particular canceled frequently.

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Is this at all schools?  My sons attended our large state flagship university and they had many canceled classes - one professor in particular canceled frequently.

 

I can only speak for our college and department. We don't cancel. That doesn't mean other colleges/departments/instructors have the same policies.

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So what happens if a college instructor gets sick with the flu?

They just cancel those classes??

 

 

It is very rare to cancel at my institution.  I have had TAs that could cover for me should I need it but usually that is not the case.  I am the only person on my campus who teaches what I teach so I do everything possible to avoid having to cancel.  I have never had to deal with the flu specifically but I do come in sick.  I cover for other faculty somewhat frequently.  

 

I don't find the situation comparable to K-12 teaching.  Being sick when I have to teach adults for a few hours is way different than chasing after first graders for a full day or pumping out six high school math lectures back-to-back.  I can generally drag myself in, tell everyone to stay FAR away from me, get my classes done, then bring whatever non-negotiable tasks home with me.

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I know public school teachers locally who make more money than some professors.  In a number of places I have taught, college professors have to pay for parking (sometimes at a rate of over $850 per year).    

 

Some of our public school teachers make a lot of money and they get very generous sick leave.  New teachers start out low, though. 

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I know public school teachers locally who make more money than some professors.  In a number of places I have taught, college professors have to pay for parking (sometimes at a rate of over $850 per year).    

 

This is a big issue for me.  All faculty and staff on my campus have to buy parking passes.  Obviously this hits an adjunct teaching one class (or say the hourly custodial, food service, and secretarial staff) a lot harder than a tenured department chair.  This requirement was instituted partway through my time at my institution.  I complained so much and so loudly that my department chair added the cost of the pass onto my regular pay just to shut me up.  I am especially bitter because even with a pass, I often cannot find an available spot and have to pay a meter anyway.  It is all of the little things like this that can really kill the relationship between institutions and employees.   

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This is a big issue for me.  All faculty and staff on my campus have to buy parking passes.  Obviously this hits an adjunct teaching one class (or say the hourly custodial, food service, and secretarial staff) a lot harder than a tenured department chair.  This requirement was instituted partway through my time at my institution.  I complained so much and so loudly that my department chair added the cost of the pass onto my regular pay just to shut me up.  I am especially bitter because even with a pass, I often cannot find an available spot and have to pay a meter anyway.  It is all of the little things like this that can really kill the relationship between institutions and employees.   

 

That's awful.  

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I’m looking at life after homeschooling, and honestly, I’d make more going back to the PS system than back to a college job, even if I got a full-time position. And part-time adjuncting, possibly pieced together at multiple schools to get full time hours, but no benefits, would be far more likely.

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