Changing Major and Classes not offered

[hopskipjump]

Help me walk through this logically. DD will be talking to her academic advisor as well... but her appointment is a few days away.

 

DD would love to change her major to mathematics. She's currently in her fourth semester. Right now she is an Athletic Training Major with a Mathematics minor (will include Calc I, II, III and 2-3 other higher-math classes).

 

We discussed this over the Christmas Break and that's when she added the math minor because we weren't sure making the "major" change was do-able. But as this semester has progressed, she's increasingly frustrated at herself for not making the switch sooner, so we are reevaluating the situation. She has to declare a Final major (and not change it) before the end of this semester, iirc.

 

So:

 

 

Some of the math classes are offered all the time - Fall and Winter.

 

Some are only offered Even Fall or Odd Fall. Others are only Even Winter or Odd Winter. So, only one semester out of her four remaining semesters that some classes are even available to take.

 

On *paper,* she would be 6 credits shy (in the major-electives section). This is due to the EF or OF situation and the fact that she only has 4 semesters to play around with.

 

Question 1) A classmate told her she could possibly override this by talking with the head of the mathematics department. I would assume she would need that in writing. IS this a thing that can be done sometimes??

 

Question 2) Some of the classes are listed as EF (Even Year, Fall Semester). However, when I pull up the course wizard for Fall 2018, this course isn't listed. So I checked others - and sure enough, one of them is listed Odd Fall... but it isn't listed in the Fall 2017 schedule. What happens if a class she needs simply isn't offered? Is the student screwed or is the university required to offer some type of substitution?

 

Their Mathematics data-sheet has a TON of Math Electives, but half of them are listed as "Unavailable." So it was shocking to me to go to the online wizard and find two more classes that are listed as available... but in reality... aren't.  :glare: This is a health-sciences-heavy university - not a ton of math majors walking around.

 

She and I have made a mock-up of what the next two semesters could look like for her to Major in Math and Minor in Athletic Training (her current major). She is also fitting in the requirements for Physical Therapy School (Chemistry, Calc, Biology, etc). Final goal is DPT school. However, she daydreams about having a job where she "gets to do math all day."  It comes naturally to her and she's a weird kid (lol, said with much, much love. :laugh:♥)

 

(Mathematics as a major was never. ever. on our list of options. I have NO idea why. No clue why neither of us considered it. She was planning on Engineering until she decided she wanted to be a Physical Therapist instead and work with kids or athletes (most of the engineering jobs she sat-in on were very isolated and she didn't care for that))

Edited February 28, 2018 by hopskipjump

[regentrude]

Q1: yes, sometimes it is possible for departments to waive a degree requirement or substitute another course which they consider equivalent. She needs to talk to her advisor.

 

Q2: If a class isn't offered, the student needs to either: take it over the summer elsewhere, take it online through another college, wait until it is offered again, get a waiver from the department. Some courses can be waived, others must be taken and are non-negotiable. Some can be substituted by others. Only the departmental advisor can answer this question for her, and te answer will depend on the specific class.

 

Course catalogs usually list all courses that have been approved by the university, but  not all catalog courses are offered in any given semester.

 

ETA: But it is also normal that double majors in non-overlapping subjects cannot be completed within four years. The department should try to work with her, but if the class line-up is such that it fully uses the four year time frame, the answer might be that a double major will require additional semesters, especially in heavily sequenced subjects.

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by regentrude

[Bootsie]

If she will be there for one fall odd and one fall even (and same for winter), each class she still needs would be offered one of the following four semesters, won't it?  Why would she be 6 credits shy?  (Is it because of class sequencing?)  

 

An advisor, or department chair depending on the school, can make reasonable substitutions if a class is not available.  Sometimes a special course will be offered that has a different name/number than the required course, but will be a course that the department will generally substitute.  She will really need to talk to her advisor and see if given the sequence necessary for math courses if she will be able to fulfill requirements for a degree.  

 

What is the mathematics data-sheet you are looking at that has courses listed as "unavailable"?  Is that unavailable pertaining to a particular semester?  Does something switch to unavailable once a class is filled for the semester or once a date passes and a student can no longer enroll in the course?

[hopskipjump]

thank you!!

 

Q1: yes, sometimes it is possible for departments to waive a degree requirement or substitute another course which they consider equivalent. She needs to talk to her advisor.

 

Q2: If a class isn't offered, the student needs to either: take it over the summer elsewhere, take it online through another college, wait until it is offered again, get a waiver from the department.

She has been told she can't take a class elsewhere if it applies to her major. She is taking PT-specific courses over the summer (Chemistry I & II) because her major doesn't require those. I'm wondering if the same would apply to something like Calculus II, though. If she could take Calc II over the summer, that would add a lot of flexibility! Adding it to the list of questions for her advisor.

 

Some courses can be waived, others must be taken and are non-negotiable. Some can be substituted by others. Only the departmental advisor can answer this question for her, and te answer will depend on the specific class.

 

Excellent. She has an appointment with her advisor (she just told me it's after Spring Break though, ugh).

 

Course catalogs usually list all courses that have been approved by the university, but  not all catalog courses are offered in any given semester.

 

ETA: But it is also normal that double majors in non-overlapping subjects cannot be completed within four years. The department should try to work with her, but if the class line-up is such that it fully uses the four year time frame, the answer might be that a double major will require additional semesters, especially in heavily sequenced subjects.

She won't be a double-major. She'll have a major and a minor (she only needs two more classes for the minor). The math major itself has a TON of open elective credit hours included. It will be as though several of the classes she took toward Old Major were merely electives she took during her first two years.

 

 

If she will be there for one fall odd and one fall even (and same for winter), each class she still needs would be offered one of the following four semesters, won't it?  Why would she be 6 credits shy?  (Is it because of class sequencing?)  

 

Just recalculated - looks like she is only 3 credits shy. (unless this last class I just spotted has a pre-req I didn't jot down... I'll need to double check)

 

She needs 18 hours of Major electives. There are 9 classes offered that are available (TWENTY-TWO are listed on the Mathematics Major Data/Course sheet... but 13 of those are unavailable).

 

On our worksheet, she has selected 15 hours of electives (5 classes)

 

Two of the available electives classes are already "used up" as Major REQUIREMENTS.

 

Two of the classes have prereqs (Calc III, iirc) that need fulfilled, but she won't have those until Fall/Odd-Winter/Even Senior year. But those two classes are only offered Fall/Even-Winter/Odd. So they're out.

 

 

 

An advisor, or department chair depending on the school, can make reasonable substitutions if a class is not available.  Sometimes a special course will be offered that has a different name/number than the required course, but will be a course that the department will generally substitute.  She will really need to talk to her advisor and see if given the sequence necessary for math courses if she will be able to fulfill requirements for a degree.  

 

What is the mathematics data-sheet you are looking at that has courses listed as "unavailable"?  Is that unavailable pertaining to a particular semester?  Does something switch to unavailable once a class is filled for the semester or once a date passes and a student can no longer enroll in the course?

 

Yes, the data sheet shows the classes as completely unavailable. I imagine, possibly, these were classes that were offered at one time previously, but no longer offered. So they are still on the data sheet because some seniors may have taken one of those classes. ?

 

Their course wizard shows classes that were offered for the past two years or so. If a class is closed, it will still be listed, but shown as "closed' due to lack of enrollment. These 12 classes are just... not there. Anywhere.

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by hopskipjump

[RootAnn]

I would definitely talk to the math department first. A fall-back option is to take the class(es) during the summer elsewhere - with the understanding that they would need to be pre-approved to transfer.

[teachermom2834]

FWIW, my ds goes to a small school and changed majors and was worried he would have this problem. It says explicitly in several places in the bulletin that classes in his major MUST be taken at the school. He asked the head of the department what to do if he ran into a problem and the response was that he would sign off on pretty much any substitution from another college. So that leaves summer school and the vast array of online offerings to pick up a missing class if necessary.

 

Totally not specific to your dd situation but maybe it gives you some encouragement.

[hopskipjump]

Another concern is math overload. The "Sample Curriculum" for a Math Major shows:

 

Freshman year: 10 math credits

Sophomore year: 10 math credits

Junior year: 12 math credits

Senior year: 12 math credits

 

DDs would be:

 

Junior year fall: 7 math credits (plus Physics I and Kinesiology, which won't be a walk in the park for her)

(Calc II, Introductory Linear Algebra)

 

Junior year spring: 10 math credits (Plus Physics II)

(Calc III, Ordinary Differential Equations, Number Theory)

 

Junior Year: 17 total math credits

 

Senior year fall: 9 math credits

(Abstract Algebra I, Probability and Statistics, Complex Variables)

Senior year spring: 9 math credits

(Abstract Algebra II, Linear Algebra II, Elementary Differential Geometry)

 

Senior Year: 18 total math credits

 

It's difficult for me to be able to be pragmatic about this kind of decision, because I am Sooooo not a math person. She's read the course descriptions and says that they all sound "like so much fun" and "so interesting." But will it be so when it's all she's doing? Because that sounds like a LOT to me.

 

This is a kid who is whip-smart. But she really had no idea of what she wanted to do/be in college. She's good at all.the.things, and it made it incredibly difficult for her to make a decision. The GOAL of being a PT makes sense and the JOB itself will fit her perfectly. But, the major she's selected hasn't felt "quite right." And when she's taken the math classes she has taken... she's giddy. OF course, none of those will count toward the mathematics degree... lol But...  I'd love to help her make this happen - but don't want her to wind up degree-less!!!

Edited February 28, 2018 by hopskipjump

[hopskipjump]

FWIW, my ds goes to a small school and changed majors and was worried he would have this problem. It says explicitly in several places in the bulletin that classes in his major MUST be taken at the school. He asked the head of the department what to do if he ran into a problem and the response was that he would sign off on pretty much any substitution from another college. So that leaves summer school and the vast array of online offerings to pick up a missing class if necessary.

 

Totally not specific to your dd situation but maybe it gives you some encouragement.

 

That IS good to hear. Maybe there's hope!

[regentrude]

Another concern is math overload. The "Sample Curriculum" for a Math Major shows:

 

Freshman year: 10 math credits

Sophomore year: 10 math credits

Junior year: 12 math credits

Senior year: 12 math credits

 

DDs would be:

 

Junior year fall: 7 math credits (plus Physics I and Kinesiology, which won't be a walk in the park for her)

(Calc II, Introductory Linear Algebra)

 

Junior year spring: 10 math credits (Plus Physics II)

(Calc III, Ordinary Differential Equations, Number Theory)

 

Junior Year: 17 total math credits

 

Senior year fall: 9 math credits

(Abstract Algebra I, Probability and Statistics, Complex Variables)

Senior year spring: 9 math credits

(Abstract Algebra II, Linear Algebra II, Elementary Differential Geometry)

 

Senior Year: 18 total math credits

 

It's difficult for me to be able to be pragmatic about this kind of decision, because I am Sooooo not a math person. She's read the course descriptions and says that they all sound "like so much fun" and "so interesting." But will it be so when it's all she's doing? Because that sounds like a LOT to me.

 

 

Taking three courses in the major in the upper semesters sounds completely normal (3 courses/semester at 3 credits each is 18 credits per year). My physics majors take three physics courses during most semesters.

That's what they are looking forward to - to take classes in their major! Because that's what they enjoy studying.

[regentrude]

Can't quote since you answered inside my quote and it won't show up:

 

I would be very surprised if she were not allowed to take an introductory class like calc II at another institution over the summer.

Many students do not take calc 2 at all at their college, because they have AP credit or have taken a college calc class as DE. 

[regentrude]

What is that "data sheet" you speak of?

[Bootsie]

You say that two of the available electives are used up as requirements--I am not following what you mean by this.  Is the same course listed as "requirement" and as an "elective"?

[hopskipjump]

You say that two of the available electives are used up as requirements--I am not following what you mean by this.  Is the same course listed as "requirement" and as an "elective"?

 

Yes. There are four classes that are in both sections (Advanced Calculus 1&2 or Abstract Algebra 1&2). Either pair are a "requirement." Two are available FE/WO and two are available FO/WE. They all require Calc III as a pre-req, iirc... so dd has to take Calc III before she can take either.

 

Then those same four classes appear in the electives section along with other classes to choose from.

[hopskipjump]

Can't quote since you answered inside my quote and it won't show up:

 

I would be very surprised if she were not allowed to take an introductory class like calc II at another institution over the summer.

Many students do not take calc 2 at all at their college, because they have AP credit or have taken a college calc class as DE. 

 

I'm going to have her call her advisor and ask about this before her appointment. If this can happen - that certainly makes this less daunting!!!! DD will be thrilled!!

 

What is that "data sheet" you speak of?

 

The Curriculum Sheet for the major. Sort of like this:

 

http://catalog.utk.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=22&poid=9212

 

 

 

Taking three courses in the major in the upper semesters sounds completely normal (3 courses/semester at 3 credits each is 18 credits per year). My physics majors take three physics courses during most semesters.

That's what they are looking forward to - to take classes in their major! Because that's what they enjoy studying.

 

OK. That's true. That's why she's excited at the prospect, while I look at that much math and get cold chills and start to panic. Very good point.

[MarkT]

 

 

DDs would be:

 

Junior year fall: 7 math credits (plus Physics I and Kinesiology, which won't be a walk in the park for her)

(Calc II, Introductory Linear Algebra)

 

Junior year spring: 10 math credits (Plus Physics II)

(Calc III, Ordinary Differential Equations, Number Theory)

 

Junior Year: 17 total math credits

 

Senior year fall: 9 math credits

(Abstract Algebra I, Probability and Statistics, Complex Variables)

Senior year spring: 9 math credits

(Abstract Algebra II, Linear Algebra II, Elementary Differential Geometry)

 

Senior Year: 18 total math credits

 

Has she taken any "theoretical" (for lack of a better term - Kiana help me out here) courses?

Many students think they want to be Math majors because they love Calc.  Upper level courses are quite different (bolded).

I am an applied math type person myself - did not like Abstract Algebra etc.

 

Have her read through an Abstract Algebra text before moving too fast.

 

Mark

[plansrme]

Is her advisor someone in the math department?  Does the math department have an undergraduate academic advisor?  That's who I would talk to, not an advisor in athletic training or whatever her current major is.  If she calls up the math department and says she wants to transfer in, especially if she is "giddy" about anything math-related, I suspect they will find a way to make it happen.  I don't know if this is true elsewhere, but at my daughter's school, the math department is amazingly flexible.  She went in last fall to review her remaining course requirements for graduation, thinking she needed a full load this semester.  She didn't; the advisor started marking stuff off and substituting this for that, and by the time it was over, she needed one class.  She worked out a deal with a professor to take that as a reading class, meaning she meets with him once a week and writes a paper on something-or-another.  

 

As far as math as a career, she could probably get a master's in math (some master's programs are even funded, I think) somewhere with a research emphasis, and then she would know whether she wants to pursue a Ph.D. and just sit around and "do math" all day.  Of course she also could apply straight to Ph.D. programs, but if her application isn't competitive enough for the tippy-top programs because she is a late entrant into math and won't have research experience or advanced course work, a master's might put her on a level playing field with undergrads coming out with tons of math course work and research experience. 

 

 

 

 

[regentrude]

Is her advisor someone in the math department?  Does the math department have an undergraduate academic advisor?  That's who I would talk to, not an advisor in athletic training or whatever her current major is. 

Yes. To clarify: when I recommended "talking to her advisor" in my posts, I was referring to the academic advisor of the math department! Her athletic training advisor or a university's general staff advisor will NOT be the people who can speak to course availability and waiving of requirements! (It didn't occur to me that she may be thinking of a different advisor, so it's excellent that plansrme brought this up)

Edited March 1, 2018 by regentrude

[elegantlion]

Yes, she needs to talk with a math advisor. They should know what courses will be forthcoming at least for the next few semester (it's that way at our school, regardless of what is in the official catalog), and what exceptions can be made. 

 

As far as courses, ds is taking 3 math courses this semester and loving it. Last semester he had 2 general studies courses and disliked what he was studying. Next semester looks like it will be all math and physics courses. The only caution I gave ds was to ensure he didn't take too many credit hours so he has time to do the homework. 

 

 

[almondbutterandjelly]

What math classes has she taken already?  I can't tell.

[obsidian]

Has she taken any "theoretical" (for lack of a better term - Kiana help me out here) courses?

Many students think they want to be Math majors because they love Calc.  Upper level courses are quite different (bolded).

I am an applied math type person myself - did not like Abstract Algebra etc.

 

Have her read through an Abstract Algebra text before moving too fast.

 

Mark

 

Yes - this. If she's only taken Calc I (?), she does not really know if she will like upper level math.

[almondbutterandjelly]

From re-reading, it does look like she's only made it as far as Calculus 1 and has decided to be a math major?  Yes, I really recommend slowing her roll.  That's the first course in math major world.  Not enough to make a decision.  I'm actually surprised she hasn't taken more math than that as a sophomore if this is such an area of interest.  

 

What she is experiencing now is normal, the freakout about changing her major.  I did the same thing after I took a sociology class.  Reason returned, and I stuck with my major (which is math, by the way).

 

There aren't actually that many jobs that do math all day, either.  If she likes and is good at statistics, she could be an actuary.  (I hate statistics.)  Accountants probably do math all day, but it's business stuff, not math department stuff.  I'm not sure there are any jobs that do Calculus all day.  Engineering might be her best bet if she wants something in that direction.  Or physics.

[RootAnn]

Well, there are plenty of high school kids who have only taken (or haven't even gotten to) Calc 1 who are looking at majoring in math, so I wouldn't discount her feelings due to just that.

 

Plus, if your current major isn't something like engineering or math (or physics), it isn't that unusual to not be farther in the Calc series. Many of the non-STEM majors my dd#1 looked at didn't even require Calc. I'm assuming OP's kid's Athletic Training major requires only a little on the math front.

Edited March 1, 2018 by RootAnn

[Matryoshka]

From re-reading, it does look like she's only made it as far as Calculus 1 and has decided to be a math major?  Yes, I really recommend slowing her roll.  That's the first course in math major world.  Not enough to make a decision.  I'm actually surprised she hasn't taken more math than that as a sophomore if this is such an area of interest.  

 

What she is experiencing now is normal, the freakout about changing her major.  I did the same thing after I took a sociology class.  Reason returned, and I stuck with my major (which is math, by the way).

 

I was wondering that too.  My dd added a math as a second major her sophomore year, but at that point she had already taken Calc 3 and was in her second semester of Discrete.  I have to say I'd be a teensy bit concerned about switching to a major halfway through college in which you'd only taken the first course in the sequence...

 

But it sounds like she might have taken other math classes that just aren't in the standard 'sequence' - some kind of electives?  I'm guessing those might count toward the major electives??  Which classes were making her giddy?

[G5052]

Ask, ask, ask.

 

My son planned to transfer from the community college to a competitive business school after graduating from there. Some courses he needed for the four-year weren't offered there, and the electives they wanted in his major wouldn't transfer.

 

So we appealed and got his external electives to count as electives there.

 

Hopefully they are flexible!

[Corraleno]

We discussed this over the Christmas Break and that's when she added the math minor because we weren't sure making the "major" change was do-able. But as this semester has progressed, she's increasingly frustrated at herself for not making the switch sooner, so we are reevaluating the situation. She has to declare a Final major (and not change it) before the end of this semester, iirc.

 

 

The bolded is the part that would worry me. Making an irreversible (?) decision to major in math when the highest math course she has so far is Calc 1 seems risky. Trying to pack all the required courses into two years leaves very little margin for error, and what if she decides she really doesn't like higher level math, but has no choice except to continue slogging through it? 

 

If her career goal is still Physical Therapy, then why not keep the Athletic Training major (especially if she thinks she might want to work with athletes) and just take lots of math electives for fun without having to worry about fulfilling major requirements?

[plansrme]

Does she have her PT prerequisites already?  Or can she take those in the summer?  (PT programs don't seem to care where you take the prereqs.) If so, she could switch her major to math and still apply to and attend PT school.  PT schools don't care what your major is as long as you have the prereqs.  That would keep her options open while she pursues math.

[G5052]

The bolded is the part that would worry me. Making an irreversible (?) decision to major in math when the highest math course she has so far is Calc 1 seems risky. Trying to pack all the required courses into two years leaves very little margin for error, and what if she decides she really doesn't like higher level math, but has no choice except to continue slogging through it? 

 

Yes, I missed that.

 

I wouldn't plan a math minor on the basis of Calc I. Depending on how the program is structured, Calc II is typically harder and gives people more trouble. If the minor is like the one from my college, she'll have to take one semester of differential equations and one of statistics and then an elective. All of those are tougher classes than Calc I.

 

If she's taking a lot of science, a math minor might be too much to do. I have double B.S. degrees. My computer science degree ha physics as a minor because I focused on scientific programming, but I did German as the minor on my math degree because I transferred in with six semesters of German already. No way would I have been able to do two technical minors.

Edited March 1, 2018 by G5052

[MarkT]

Almost a third of first-time college students choose a major and then change it at least once within three years ...

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/12/08/nearly-third-students-change-major-within-three-years-math-majors-most

 

[hopskipjump]

Ha! Good questions!

 

DD's highest level of "Official Math Taken" is indeed, Calc I. She could have taken Calc II this semester, but didn't (she regrets that choice now...) She's taken a couple additional math courses "for fun," but unfortunately, those do not apply toward the math major (a stats class and some abstract geometry something or another)

 

However, she has "audited" a couple of upper-level math courses since arriving at the university. Not full-time audits, per se, but the professors allowed her to "sit in" during the lectures after she talked with them. A friend of hers was taking these classes over 2 semesters and having a miserable go at it. DD sat in on the lectures when she could and tutored the friend through his classes (as well as a couple she didn't sit in on - she'd read the text, notes, and videos and tried to sort out the process for herself as something "fun" to do). (with time she should have been spending on biology or anatomy... ahem... :001_rolleyes: )

 

That's where she was exposed to a theoretical something-or-another math class and another advanced math class (I cannot for the life of me remember which ones, though! It's all Greek to me!).

 

That's where all this trouble started.  :laugh: The professors are lecturing and dd is just drinking it all in. Some of her "classmates" were not so sponge-esque and were glazed, deer-in-headlights, while dd is like a kid in a candy store eating it up. :drool:  She LOVED Algebra, loved Geometry, LOVED Calculus... but these?? She was like, "I didn't know math could BE like that!"  :001_tt1: :lol:  So that's when she started really questioning her major selection.

 

------

 

With all that said... we talked for a long time today and she's planning to stick with her current major and the math minor. It's just less risky with the little amount of time she has to play with. She has to FIRST talk to her athletic-academic advisor. THEN talk to the mathematics academic-advisor. THEN talk to the dean of the mathematics department for an approval... it's just too many steps & one tiny slip-up or miscommunication could cost her $$$$$. We can't afford a "bonus" semester at this school.

 

After she's gotten her bachelor's - she could finish up a math degree at a university closer to home and then continue for a master's if she decides she'd prefer that to PT. It'll work out one way or another...

 

I should have prepared her better - that's 100% on me. She's a kid who started reading books about theoretical physics, etc "for fun" and doing accurate work in Algebra books "for fun" when she was just an itty bitty thing. I didn't see her as "advanced" because she was just... herself. She was always sooooo far ahead of anyone else we knew that if felt like I was already pushing her! I just didn't see the rush because Calc I in high school seemed the be-all, end-all (especially because, at that time, we couldn't afford to outsource all that much). Live and learn... :/

Edited March 2, 2018 by hopskipjump

[8filltheheart]

If I were you, Imwould recommend that she get a local cal 2 class approved for transfer and have her take it this summer. Cal 1 fall and cal 2 spring would be the normal sequence. And ultimately, that could put everything off sequence at a small school with time limited offerings. I cannot fathom that the dept wouldn't agree to a cal 2 summer course so that she is back in sequence. It isn't quite the same as asking them to transfer in a 300 or 400 level in major course.

[MarkT]

Make sure she takes some programming type classes so she has that marketable skill to go with the math knowledge.

A Numerical Analysis type math class would be very complementary to programming as well.

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/mathematics/18-330-introduction-to-numerical-analysis-spring-2012/

 

Good luck to your DD

 

[katilac]

<snip>

 

With all that said... we talked for a long time today and she's planning to stick with her current major and the math minor. It's just less risky with the little amount of time she has to play with.  <snip>

 

After she's gotten her bachelor's - she could finish up a math degree at a university closer to home and then continue for a master's if she decides she'd prefer that to PT. It'll work out one way or another...

 

I should have prepared her better - that's 100% on me. <snip>

 

I think that's a good idea. She could certainly consider talking to the math department to explore possibilities, and possible exceptions to classes transferring in, but this is a very workable backup plan. 

 

Don't be hard on yourself, just move on from here. She has a supportive mom, that's worth a lot! 

 

If I were you, Imwould recommend that she get a local cal 2 class approved for transfer and have her take it this summer. Cal 1 fall and cal 2 spring would be the normal sequence. And ultimately, that could put everything off sequence at a small school with time limited offerings. I cannot fathom that the dept wouldn't agree to a cal 2 summer course so that she is back in sequence. It isn't quite the same as asking them to transfer in a 300 or 400 level in major course.

 

Yes, I think it is very likely that they would allow this, even if official requirements say something else. My dd's school has been good about working with her to get things done that aren't allowed on paper. 

[kiana]

Auditing a theory-based class and being excited by it is a good sign. Intro to proofs is when I changed my major to math. Before that, it was easy but rather tedious and boring. 

 

She can always do a "strong minor" -- that is, just because the minor only requires 6 classes doesn't mean she can't take 8. 

 

It is quite possible to get admitted to a master's in math (probably not at a top-tier university, but my grad school admitted people, with funding) without a math major on the basis of strong preparation in the classes they DID take, good recommendations from the professors in those classes, and doing well in at least one proofs-based class. 

[luuknam]

After she's gotten her bachelor's - she could finish up a math degree at a university closer to home and then continue for a master's if she decides she'd prefer that to PT. It'll work out one way or another...

 

 

I'm not sure about people who already have a bachelor's degree from somewhere else, but ime, universities tend to want you to take at least 30 hours at their university in order for them to give you a degree. So, even if she were to be only 15 hours from a math degree, she might have to take 30 because it's a different university. Just wanted to throw that out there, so she can look into that and not be surprised.

 

That said, she might be able to get admitted to a master's degree program without finishing a math degree first, and if there are some classes they think she has to take first, just take those, rather than complete a math bachelor's. Or, some schools have a BA/MA program... not sure if that would be viable. I do agree that it'd be smarter to do a strong minor at this point rather than switching her major to math. 

 

Finally, it's not your fault that she isn't taking Calc II this semester. She's an adult (I assume), and it's not like you had a crystal ball and just forgot to use it.

[regentrude]

I'm not sure about people who already have a bachelor's degree from somewhere else, but ime, universities tend to want you to take at least 30 hours at their university in order for them to give you a degree. So, even if she were to be only 15 hours from a math degree, she might have to take 30 because it's a different university. Just wanted to throw that out there, so she can look into that and not be surprised.

 

This. Many schools require at least 60 hours to be taken at their institution to be eligible to receive a degree. 

[kiana]

Yes, another option is to enroll only for the classes she's missing (although if they are classes like missing the abstract algebra sequence, *many* schools will let you take that sequence as part of your master's, which allows you to get a tuition waiver/assistantship for it if they admit you). But it's most important that you have the mathematical maturity and capability for abstract thought (which can be demonstrated by doing excellently in *some* of the classes). 

 

If there's a specific local place where she wants to do a master's, enrolling as a non-degree student for a two-semester sequence like that is a great way to pave the way for admission for a master's -- because then the professors who are instructing her in those classes can speak to the graduate director about how awesome she is.