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"It almost never works out well" comment on 2nd marriages with kids


GinaPagnato
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For the most part I agree with you. However I did want to point out that there are definitely worse things than being beaten

So says someone who I suspect hasn't taken a beating.

 

Sexual and financial infidelity are absolutely traumatic, on that I completely agree. And for sure when it comes to the emotions, it can be worse. But there's no getting around that despite that, the betrayed can still walk and see straight. They have CHOICES. They can get a job, take care of their kids, have a social life and more. They are not living in daily terror for their or their kids physical safety - a situation that absolutely limits their ability to change the situation and there's few things worse than that in terms of what a person can endure in a marriage.

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Someone upthread said it depends largely on the maturity of the adults involved. I completely agree with this.

I also think almost all blended families would benefit from a little family counseling, at the beginning at least.

 

If the "new to the family" person comes in and tries to parent like a bio parent, it can backfire - unless the child is very young perhaps.

A lot of relationship building has to take place. Some adults think "I have dated their mother / father for a year or two years, I know the kids too." This is probably not enough. Once the newly formed family gets going, time should be set apart for fun - and only fun activities with the new parent. Rapport, trust and love don't just magically spring up when the wedding vows are said. 

I remember the words of a man who became the stepfather of two boys - I think 10 and 12 at the time. 

He said first of all, they are not my step children, the are my "bonus kids."

 

For the first year, I did no discipline them. I discussed with their mother what course of parenting may be best but not in front of them. I tried to build a relationship by taking them with me to go on pizza runs without Mom, go do "guy" stuff, play ball, etc. I saw my role initially as a supportive coach, bonding with them before I assumed the privilege of disciplining."

 

Not all people are interested in expending this much effort or know how to go about it.

 

I think this could have made a huge difference when my mother remarried, the summer before I turned 13. Instead her husband thrust himself into the main parenting role, she chose to hand discipline and tough discussions over to him (which would have been awkward even if I did get along with him), and I felt like I had been abandoned. He was instrumental in getting me kicked out of the house shortly after I turned 14 and my relationship with my mother never truly recovered. I'm in my early 40s now and it's better now than it was in my late teens and 20s but there will always be that hard, protective shell inside me that will never feel comfortable opening up to her. I went from their household (a "yours and mine" kid situation) to my dad & stepmother's house (a "yours and ours" kid situation), but never felt like I truly had a home.

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So says someone who I suspect hasn't taken a beating.

 

Sexual and financial infidelity are absolutely traumatic, on that I completely agree. And for sure when it comes to the emotions, it can be worse. But there's no getting around that despite that, the betrayed can still walk and see straight. They have CHOICES. They can get a job, take care of their kids, have a social life and more. They are not living in daily terror for their or their kids physical safety - a situation that absolutely limits their ability to change the situation and there's few things worse than that in terms of what a person can endure in a marriage.

 

 

You suspect incorrectly. 26 years in that marriage and there was not much that I didn't endure. Even the times I wasn't walking around terror I was definitely walking on eggshells.   I agree though that feeling trapped (for whatever reason) can limit one's ability to change circumstances.

 

I still agree with you. Staying in an intact family is statistically the best outcome for kids....except when it isn't.  There was a definite cumulative effect and one day it was just one thing too much.

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I am looking at my experience as a step mom and the hell I have gone through and am only starting to emerge from and I have to wonder what part mental illness plays in a successful blended family.

 

My son had almost no trouble blending families.

 

My step kids were adults when we blended, and by the accepted timeline of our society they should have long been independent and working full time with college behind them. That was not the case, both have significant mental illness and addiction issues. It was stepmom hell. No matter what I did, it did not matter. All the time and labor I put in to helping them fix major financial issues, or getting them jobs handed to them, or patiently explaining basic things that are preschool level life skills, it did not matter because mental illness.

 

Now that they do not live here they have started treating other people as poorly as they did DS and I and crying to others about how horrible their family treats them and how we all hate them. This is not a result of blending families, this is a result of mental illness and addiction. It is very sad to watch young people with potential self destruct, but they would have even if DH had stayed single or if DH and his ex stayed married.

 

And I am sad. This is not what is common in my family and social circle.

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People are not getting in a dither about stating that there can be problems.  People are saying that generalizations though are just that - generalizations.  And that just because there are potential problems doesn't mean that they can't often be worked out.  And that there are a lot of family dynamics and situations that come with problems - not just 2nd marriages with kids.  And that when you start adding adjectives like "gross" it is something to object to. 

 

The point of a generalized statement (like the one being discussed here) is that it's generally true-that means the exceptions and outliers don't apply to the discussion. (I notice many a homeschooler struggles with generalizations....well...in general.  Ardent advocates of individualization and customization often struggle with this idea I've noticed here at the boards.)  I think there are people here in a dither because they're the outliers and they don't want to address the general pattern out of some sort of underlying assumption that it will reflect negatively on them or something.  I would agree with the statement that the general pattern is it doesn't work out well for most remarriage with kids situations.  I would say most are tolerable which is completely different than those few that work out well. That's due to the difficult nature of never married/divorce situations that involve parents splitting up and repartnering when their children can't grasp the complexities involved but still have to navigate the broken relationship dynamics while they're emotionally immature due to their age and wounded due to the break up.  I know it's not popular and doesn't fit in with the happy talk about divorce we've been hearing for decades now.

 

Why do people keep pointing out that potential problems can't often be worked out?  No one said otherwise.  What I'm saying and the guy who made the comment that this thread is about and I are saying that most of the time those problems do not get solved for whatever reason. We're not talking about intention here, we're talking about actual results.  Remarrying partners often can't hear it and they minimize it.  It's true even if they refuse to believe it.

 

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Don’t quote me please, I’m deleting this in a few hours.

 

 

We had a similar situation with my Dh's XW and her new husband (who btw was an affair that she left dh for).  They absolutely poisoned the oldest against dh with outright lies.  One time a police officer even told the boy when he was about 17 that it was a lie and he refused to believe that it was a lie.  This is a child that dh was very closely bonded with pre-divorce.  He was a very involved and good father.  Somehow he was convinced the lies he was being told were truth.

 

The XW and her husband have caused us so much grief.  So I would say that has been the biggest issue with our blended family.  

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The point of a generalized statement (like the one being discussed here) is that it's generally true-that means the exceptions and outliers don't apply to the discussion. (I notice many a homeschooler struggles with generalizations....well...in general.  Ardent advocates of individualization and customization often struggle with this idea I've noticed here at the boards.)  I think there are people here in a dither because they're the outliers and they don't want to address the general pattern out of some sort of underlying assumption that it will reflect negatively on them or something.  I would agree with the statement that the general pattern is it doesn't work out well for most remarriage with kids situations.  I would say most are tolerable which is completely different than those few that work out well. That's due to the difficult nature of never married/divorce situations that involve parents splitting up and repartnering when their children can't grasp the complexities involved but still have to navigate the broken relationship dynamics while they're emotionally immature due to their age and wounded due to the break up.  I know it's not popular and doesn't fit in with the happy talk about divorce we've been hearing for decades now.

 

Why do people keep pointing out that potential problems can't often be worked out?  No one said otherwise.  What I'm saying and the guy who made the comment that this thread is about and I are saying that most of the time those problems do not get solved for whatever reason. We're not talking about intention here, we're talking about actual results.  Remarrying partners often can't hear it and they minimize it.  It's true even if they refuse to believe it.

 

 

As far as homeschoolers not understanding generalizations.  Nonsense.  Not agreeing with you does not mean that we don't understand something. 

 

 

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But there's more than a bit of truth there and the data support it.

 

Generalizations are often generalizations for a reason. Namely because they tend to be more accurate than not most of the time. It doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. But well. Exceptions wouldn't be called exceptions if they were the usual outcome.

 

It's a sad sucky reality, but that doesn't change the facts.

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I don't know if it's a homeschooler thing but I see an awful lot of people mixed up about generalizations.  Either they object because they are general (that's the point!) or they apply them individually when it isn't appropriate or can't be assumed.

 

I actually find it really interesting that generalizations cause so many problems when people try and think about them or use them - I wonder what it says about the way our brains work.

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So says someone who I suspect hasn't taken a beating.

 

Sexual and financial infidelity are absolutely traumatic, on that I completely agree. And for sure when it comes to the emotions, it can be worse. But there's no getting around that despite that, the betrayed can still walk and see straight. They have CHOICES. They can get a job, take care of their kids, have a social life and more. They are not living in daily terror for their or their kids physical safety - a situation that absolutely limits their ability to change the situation and there's few things worse than that in terms of what a person can endure in a marriage.

 

So say people who have been beaten and were glad of the proof of abuse because unlike their poor abused mates who didn't get hit, they had proof and so got to keep their kids.

 

 

As to the re-marriage v not, remarriage looks better in court than staying single. Where I live, anyway.

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I think lack of medical care is a huge stressor in many marriages.

 

Which includes mental health care.

 

Not on the deep end of the scale, but I’m so much better able to cope with life because of my thyroid and progesterone and trazadone. Without them? Ugh. It doesn’t change that things upset me, but my coping ability is sooo much better.

 

Or my husband’s type 1 diabeties. Having the resources to manage that is huge. Mood swings, job stability and more are directly imapcted by it.

 

It might not be as severe as some mental health issues, but those are very common things that impact people’s daily lives in major ways and often go untreated or terribly undertreated. Just for starters.

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So say people who have been beaten and were glad of the proof of abuse because unlike their poor abused mates who didn't get hit, they had proof and so got to keep their kids.

 

 

As to the re-marriage v not, remarriage looks better in court than staying single. Where I live, anyway.

Where have I ever suggested beaten spouses should stay? Never. When have I ever suggested they shouldn’t get evidence to support their case in any type of court? Never.

 

And yeah. I agree remarriage looks better in court and I think that’s more about the additional income it usually entails than the actual remarriage situation. And I don’t agree with that either. It’s juat another example of money influencing the courts imnsho.

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Where have I ever suggested beaten spouses should stay? Never. When have I ever suggested they shouldn’t get evidence to support their case in any type of court? Never.

 

 

Scarlett said there were worse things than physical violence.

 

You said you thought only people who hadn't been beaten would say that.

 

I said that was untrue. I had someone who had been on the receiving end of some pretty severe physical DV tell me she was one of the lucky ones because of that physical violence.

 

 

Accusing me of accusing you of things we both know you didn't say isn't an appropriate way to continue the conversation thread.

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Scarlett said there were worse things than physical violence.

 

You said you thought only people who hadn't been beaten would say that.

 

I said that was untrue. I had someone who had been on the receiving end of some pretty severe physical DV tell me she was one of the lucky ones because of that physical violence.

 

 

Accusing me of accusing you of things we both know you didn't say isn't an appropriate way to continue the conversation thread.

The only “benefit†of being beaten is there is hopefully evidence of the abuse. It’s a lot harder to prove in court that your husband was abusive bc he didn’t give you access to his finances.

 

But as far as what can be easier to LIVE with?

 

I stick to my claim that it’s a hell of a lot harder to live, literally, with a person who put you physically in danger. That’s just not a legit choice to stay in that situation anymore.

 

I can file bankruptcy and I can live in a crappy slum and still have the choice to function in society. To leave. To raise me kids. To hide money. I have choices.

 

Damned hard to make choices when you can’t see through an swollen eye or breathe without pain because of a kick to the ribs.

 

Yes. I agree emotional trauma is real and awful and devastating. But I can make a choice to deal with it or change it or whatever.

 

We don’t have the choice to just deal with a busted face or whatever. We can’t go to counseling for tips on how to live with or protect ourselves from that. We can’t legitimately decide to get a job or whatever to protect ourselves from that spouses behavior. We can’t make legit choices to live in a marriage where we are physically in danger. Well. Maybe others can. I can’t.

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The only “benefit†of being beaten is there is hopefully evidence of the abuse. It’s a lot harder to prove in court that your husband was abusive bc he didn’t give you access to his finances.

 

But as far as what can be easier to LIVE with?

 

I stick to my claim that it’s a hell of a lot harder to live, literally, with a person who put you physically in danger. That’s just not a legit choice to stay in that situation anymore.

 

I can file bankruptcy and I can live in a crappy slum and still have the choice to function in society. To leave. To raise me kids. To hide money. I have choices.

 

Damned hard to make choices when you can’t see through an swollen eye or breathe without pain because of a kick to the ribs.

 

Yes. I agree emotional trauma is real and awful and devastating. But I can make a choice to deal with it or change it or whatever.

 

We don’t have the choice to just deal with a busted face or whatever. We can’t go to counseling for tips on how to live with or protect ourselves from that. We can’t legitimately decide to get a job or whatever to protect ourselves from that spouses behavior. We can’t make legit choices to live in a marriage where we are physically in danger. Well. Maybe others can. I can’t.

 

 

I don't really think you are understanding what I mean.  

 

I was in a long term marriage where I did suffer physical abuse.  Nothing that ever put me in the hospital.  And not any sort of constant thing.  It was MUCH easier to get over physical wounds than some of the other stuff he put me through that I eventually divorced him over.  I RARELY even remember the physical abuse.  I often remember the other.  And 'the other' is stuff you are saying you would just deal with in order to stay married in order to give your kids the best shot at the best life.  I can't say for sure which choice is best.  I stayed for a long time so that I could give my son the best shot at the best life. At some point, inspite of statistics, it is better for everyone, including children to leave.   I imagine many people would not have stayed as long as I did.

Edited by Scarlett
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If we are speaking in generalities, I think it’s important to remember that if one spends their time in and out of the family law system in a professional capacity, they tend to see the worst cases overall and tend to remember the worst of the worst because it stands out. The well functioning blended families mostly do not end up in family court at all and the ones that do could well be for amicable reasons where they can just submit paperwork and never see a judge. My friend’s father spent 15+ years as a family law judge and he said he always reminded himself that most people divorcing never ended up on his or another judge’s docket- everything is agreed in mediation and filed with the court for a commissioner to process. I know many blended families where things work well.

 

For me personally, I have no desire to co-parent with someone who is not my husband and I have two special needs sons who take an extraordinary amount of my time. Then I have 4 nieces and nephews, two that live with me and I help care for and two who while they don’t live with me, I function as their adult for school, medical and other support. That all combines with my sons’ needs to be a huge outlay of time and energy. Like all of the time a single parent might be able to meet someone. I don’t like men in general enough to find the rare bird besides my husband who might be compatible enough with me to coparent my sons. Before I met my husband, nun was a very attractive career option for me. My sons are also only about 3 and 8 years from adulthood. If I were widowed or divorced this year, I can’t really see myself remarrying before my youngest was about 18 or older. So in review:

 

I have fertility limitations that likely preclude me from having more biological children.

 

My sons’ needs are extensive enough to preclude me from adopting until they are adults.

 

My extended family relies on me to a great degree.

 

I may not even like people enough to seek out another intimate partner.

 

So for me, I can’t see being in a blended family. I’m tapped out. That’s a personal decision informed by personal factors, not blanket opposition to blended families in general. But I suppose that might change. In the meantime I’ll just proceed through life happy to be happily married to a healthy man who is unlikely to die anytime soon. Because FFS, with the circus that is my life, it’s nice that something works well, lol.

Edited by LucyStoner
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I think everyone has different kinds of crappy experiences though. My friend’s dad was physically abusive to the extend of her mom almost dying. It was only when her dad landed in jail for other offenses that her mom finally filed for divorce. I am guessing that is what Martha is referring to, where you fear you and your kids would be dead anytime. A neighbor did shoot his wife and kids before shooting himself, his wife was the sole survivor in the murder suicide. I have an abusive late uncle where his kids knew from a young age how to barricade themselves in the bedroom and call my nearby cousins for help so that his wife won’t end up severely hurt. Luckily my abusive late uncle never changed the lock on their main door so my cousins could step in to restrain him and call the police if needed to log a case.

 

My friend is divorcing her narcissistic non-violent husband who is purely emotional abuse. Financially he is a tightwad (relative to his very high pay) but he has never withheld money from her or their kids as in her household spending is a few thousands for grocery, kids extracurriculars, petrol and car loan payments for her car. Needs and some wants are paid for. Emotionally it is definitely a rough ride but she doesn’t have to face broken ribs, concussion and permanent eye damage that my friend’s mom faced. Food, shelter and safety was never an issue even though her husband can be extremely condescending and insulting to everyone. So she had time to plan on her divorce without worrying about her children and her safety and she is thankful for that.

 

If my late uncle’s wife had remarried, I am very sure that he would have cause trouble to the new husband and just blame it on being drunk. He is that dog in the manger kind of person.

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If we are speaking in generalities, I think it’s important to remember that if one spends their time in and out of the family law system in a professional capacity, they tend to see the worst cases overall and tend to remember the worst of the worst because it stands out. The well functioning blended families mostly do not end up in family court at all and the ones that do could well be for amicable reasons where they can just submit paperwork and never see a judge. My friend’s father spent 15+ years as a family law judge and he said he always reminded himself that most people divorcing never ended up on his or another judge’s docket- everything is agreed in mediation and filed with the court for a commissioner to process. I know many blended families where things work well.

 

For me personally, I have no desire to co-parent with someone who is not my husband and I have two special needs sons who take an extraordinary amount of my time. Then I have 4 nieces and nephews, two that live with me and I help care for and two who while they don’t live with me, I function as their adult for school, medical and other support. That all combines with my sons’ needs to be a huge outlay of time and energy. Like all of the time a single parent might be able to meet someone. I don’t like men in general enough to find the rare bird besides my husband who might be compatible enough with me to coparent my sons. Before I met my husband, nun was a very attractive career option for me. My sons are also only about 3 and 8 years from adulthood. If I were widowed or divorced this year, I can’t really see myself remarrying before my youngest was about 18 or older. So in review:

 

I have fertility limitations that likely preclude me from having more biological children.

 

My sons’ needs are extensive enough to preclude me from adopting until they are adults.

 

My extended family relies on me to a great degree.

 

I may not even like people enough to seek out another intimate partner.

 

So for me, I can’t see being in a blended family. I’m tapped out. That’s a personal decision informed by personal factors, not blanket opposition to blended families in general. But I suppose that might change. In the meantime I’ll just proceed through life happy to be happily married to a healthy man who is unlikely to die anytime soon. Because FFS, with the circus that is my life, it’s nice that something works well, lol.

 

 

I don't have even a fraction of what you do and  I feel tapped out.  I feel if dh died tomorrow I would not remarry.  I am certain I would not remarry until ds is fully launched.  Probably until he is married.

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Over the weekend we were at a dinner party. A friend/acquaintance of ours made the statement regarding divorces and remarriages with kids that it "almost never works out well." He said unequivocally that blended families are fraught with problems (i.e. both parents had kids with other partners, then they married and have either full or PT custody of all the kids). He also said when a couple marries and has kids together, this creates more problems for the already existing kids. He thinks that when a person without kids from a previous relationship marries someone who has kids from a previous relationship, it is FAR better to not have kids together; instead, they should just focus on raising the already existing kids.

 

So Steve and Jane marry and Jane had kids from her first marriage. Steve and Jane should NOT have biological children of their own. They should focus on raising Jane's kids.

 

He is fairly involved with family courts in our county, so he's seen quite a lot.

 

I know a number of blended families and families with prior kids who marry and have bio kids together. There have been many problems in these families. The problems are pretty much always that the step or half-siblings don't get along, or the kids feel one parent favors another kid, or ex-spouses create trouble, etc. They're not terrible situations (okay, some of them actually are pretty terrible), but they have more than their share of strife.

 

Off the top of my head, I can think of only 2 families where the married couple chose to not have kids together. The husband in both cases decided to devote himself to parenting the already existing kids. These families had none of the problems that the other families had.

 

I had never considered our friend's point of view. I just never put those factors together.

 

What have you experienced and seen? Do you think his pov is accurate?

I have not read any of the responses. But as a child of divorce, I decided not to date or marry anyone that had kids when I was dating in my young 20s. I decided once I was logical enough to think about these things that I didn't want to deal with another man's ex when parenting. I wanted my own children with none of the extra stress that comes from divorce and exes and step anythings. 

 

I didn't start out understanding this. I made choices in my late teens based on my own experiences- parents divorced, fought constantly, always were in court against each other fighting for custody though both really only worried about their own love lives and remarriages and subsequent divorces and were not focused on our educations, extra curriculars, friendships, futures, or anything. I realize my case was probably extreme. I know not every divorce happens as dysfunctionally as mine, but I daresay most aren't pleasant. I had seen long lasting marriages in my grandparents and aunts and uncles and finally decided to imitate what I saw in their lives.   

 

Neither of my sets of parents had any other children together thankfully.   My mother later adopted a foster child with her 2nd husband and raised him together, but I was long out of the house. Eventually I had a decent relationship with my mother and one of my stepmothers but not until I was an adult. So I would  agree with the person in that blended families can be a mess. Mine certainly was. 

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I'm well aware that physical abuse is common, but the data doesn't lie. Most divorces do not involve someone being beaten. That's just a fact. And I'll admit it's a sad fact simply bc it means too many people stay in marriage where they are beaten.

 

And no, again the data says you are wrong. Most abused people who remarry end up being abused again, often because their POV on what constitutes abuse is broken, for lack of a better term. I know many who can't seem to break that cycle. It's damned hard to see a sister go from a husband who threw her out of a second story apt while pregnant and beat her kids (he got full custody when they divorced 10 years later btw) to a husband who "just gets a bit crazy when when he has tequila". I mean sure, he hasn't tossed her out of a windom, just put her in the hospital when he drove drunk and spent all their money on booze. But to her? He is amazing. Simply because he has never hit her.

 

I fully support her divorcing both the dirt bags.

 

And yes, that's a whole other ball game from a couple who just aren't happy together or are dealing with sexual or financial infidelity. I can CHOOSE to work through or around those situations, if my spouse is willing to let me, but there's no working through or around getting the crap beat out me or my kids.

 

What statistics are being collected on the reasons for divorce?

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Unfortunately we saw it with former friends and it was very hard to witness. Part of it might have been due to the fact that they adopted because they thought they couldn’t have children and then had two very unexpected pregnancies in their 40s. It was obvious to everyone that once they had biological children, they wished they had never adopted. It seemed that their adopted child could do nothing right in their eyes and was a huge disappointment, while they absolutely adored and doted on their biological children.

 

I’m sure this type of situation is the exception, but it was very sad and hard to see it.

Omgosh, that is so sad. Our youngest is adopted and one time a group of moms were talking about pregnancies and I started to say that I had given birth five times. I've forgotten a few times since then. I can't imagine how that kid felt. 😢

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It is a generalization to say 2nd marriages with kids do not turn out well. It is not an outlier to have a second marriage with kids go well. It is not that rare. There are some studies out there that say kids do better when parents stay single but there are also ones that say that kids in step households fare better. The studies out there about how kids do with remarriage are very mixed. Plus correlation does not mean causation. There could be another reason that kids fare worse and studies that show how kids fare in a unhealthy marriage with bio parents are no better.

 

It is harder then a first marriage because of the confounding factors but there is certainly plenty of advice out there on how to find healthy partners and how to go about integrating a blended family so it goes smoothly. Every one will need time to adjust. Second marriages are more likely to end in divorce but that does not mean all will. Some people probably still have bad habits if the first marriage did not work out but there is plenty of things someone can do to learn healthier ways and to look out for secure people the next time around.

 

I do know several blended families that have yours mine and ours and similar configurations that are doing well with well adjusted children. There may have been some growing pains and it can take time for bonding and adjusting at first but they are faring fine and grow to love all their children.

Edited by MistyMountain
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I would say from my the outside my father and stepmother's blended family looked good. We loved her and our siblings that were born later and still do. That didn't stop me resenting tbat my siblings had both their parents all the time while I saw my mother every 3 months or so. It didn't make up for the fact that i lost my mother and then got handed over to my stepmother and felt like i lost my dad. I had always been very close to my mother and no one else really understood me.

 

But really it is the people who parade a succession of partners past their kids i have a problem with and the people who can break up, find someone else and have a second child before their child from the previois relationship is 2 who confuse me. I want to know someone more than 6 months before I commit to his genetics.

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