"It almost never works out well" comment on 2nd marriages with kids

[Ausmumof3]

I'm running through the scenarios I know of. First one which was someone close to me - a worst case situation. In fact the step father was not really interested in the wife at all he wanted access to the daughters. I realise that's not the norm but would make me incredibly wary about remarrying with minor children. I've seen a teen move out of home because there was a clash with the step mum. I've seen a couple of families where the older kids were treated differently to the kids of the marriage unfortunately. I've seen the marriage fall apart because of kid issues. However I also know a couple of adults who absolutely adore the step parent who raised them and showed them what a good father looks like. And I know some pretty awful biological parents too. So it's hard to say for sure.

[Twolittleboys]

Well, I know several blended families that seem to work out fine (though of course you never know).

 

I have kids but am not married so can't speak from experience but honestly don't see why it should be more of a mess than other families. Obviously, the more people you add into the mix the more likely there are some problems and different family styles will be harder to reconcile when the kids are already older. But I don't see why one couldn't care just as much about a partner's kids as ones own? I used to work as a nanny and I just adored the kids. If I were to meet someone with kids it would be an important factor how I felt about them. Unless they were already grown up, I would never marry someone if I didn't feel I could deeply care for his kids. So kids might be a reason not to marry someone for me but if I did I would care about the kids.

[Rosie_0801]

I feel like I am kind of lucky, but I didn't know that. Was it helpful? Or is that just a dumb question? I guess in some scenarios the best parenting skills in the world can't fix stuff.

 

It's not a dumb question. The answer depends whose shoes you are answering from.

 

The courses aren't about parenting children. 

[Sarah CB]

My grandfather died when my dad was 11 and my grandmother remarried. Her new husband was also widowed and had two kids. She had 5 kids at the time and then they had one more together to bind the family. I never thought much about it - I have lots of aunts and uncles and cousins and family reunions were always happy affairs.

 

However, my dad has told a few stories in the last year or two that were interesting. It wasn't smooth sailing for everyone. Apparently, a few months after the marriage my grandma and her new husband sat down with my dad - John - and one of the new husband's son's - also John. New husband said it was too confusing having two Johns in the house so one of them would have to be called Jack. Apparently my dad immediately said, "Not me!" So the other kid was called Jack from that time on.

 

There was also a push at one point - I think it was when my last aunt was born - to have my dad and his siblings change his name so that the whole family had the same last name. My dad and my eldest aunt both resisted, so the five original kids kept their last name and the new baby was given the new name. 

 

This was a long time ago, so I'm assuming divorce was probably not much of an option. They made it work (until new husband died). 

 

My dad really resented the intrusion on the family. He didn't like sharing a room with his new "brother". He didn't want to call the new husband "dad" and felt very strongly about that. So, from his perspective, he probably would have done better either with a step-father who didn't have any kids or with his mom remaining single.

[fairfarmhand]

Yes, I agree that blended families are inherently more complicated and challenging than non-blended families.

 

Yes, I agree that adding "theirs" to his and/or hers is inherently more challenging and complicated that sticking with the his and/or hers.

 

I'm part of blended family with his (step-dad's) and hers (mom's) in the same household full time. I had standard every other weekend visitation with my dad who married two different women at two different times who had kids full time. No half siblings. They were all disasters.

 

I would say those divorcing should be required to go through training on how to be divorced parents.

I’ve seen lots of decent blended families and lots of awful ones.

 

But the blendedness does add complications that bio families don’t have to deal with. Mostly I’d say that the success or failure has mostly to do with the maturity of all the adults involved. One other factor that helps is that the younger the kids are at remarriage, the better the situation. I guess because the kids accept the situation as is when they barely remember their bio parents together rather than experiencing a huge before and after upheaval in their childhood.

 

Our state require s parenting classes for divorcing couples with kids. The extension office provides these.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited February 22, 2018 by fairfarmhand

[Cindy in FL.]

I have one child from my first marriage, and four from my current marriage (24 years in July). My dh adopted our oldest when he was 12. I will admit that the oldest has some problems related to his bio father being uninvolved and giving up his parental rights, and his four brothers being raised in different circumstances. I know that blending families can be difficult, but I certainly don’t think it is doomed to failure.

[Scarlett]

My grandfather died when my dad was 11 and my grandmother remarried. Her new husband was also widowed and had two kids. She had 5 kids at the time and then they had one more together to bind the family. I never thought much about it - I have lots of aunts and uncles and cousins and family reunions were always happy affairs.

 

However, my dad has told a few stories in the last year or two that were interesting. It wasn't smooth sailing for everyone. Apparently, a few months after the marriage my grandma and her new husband sat down with my dad - John - and one of the new husband's son's - also John. New husband said it was too confusing having two Johns in the house so one of them would have to be called Jack. Apparently my dad immediately said, "Not me!" So the other kid was called Jack from that time on.

 

There was also a push at one point - I think it was when my last aunt was born - to have my dad and his siblings change his name so that the whole family had the same last name. My dad and my eldest aunt both resisted, so the five original kids kept their last name and the new baby was given the new name.

 

This was a long time ago, so I'm assuming divorce was probably not much of an option. They made it work (until new husband died).

 

My dad really resented the intrusion on the family. He didn't like sharing a room with his new "brother". He didn't want to call the new husband "dad" and felt very strongly about that. So, from his perspective, he probably would have done better either with a step-father who didn't have any kids or with his mom remaining single.

Sounds like the Pink song

I don't want to have to split the holidays

I don't want two addresses

I don't want a stepbrother anyway

And I don't want my mom to have to change her last name.

 

And a blended family where there is one or more other parents to go see is very very hard. My son has suffered, my step sons have suffered. Divorce can be so so difficult. I knew all of this on an intellectual level which is why I stayed with my xh so long. At some point he just pushed me too far and I really had no choice.

 

As far as whether to remarry or not.....just like keeping a family intact (if it is reasonably free of abuse, addiction and adultery) is almost always better for the kid, I would also say staying single would almost always be better for the kid. if a single parent does choose to remarry I would say they better make darn sure they have done their due diligence in vetting the new mate. And that doesn't always involve 'knowing' them for a long time, or dating them for a long time. You need to really figure out a way to see what kind of person he/she is.

 

In the end, life is messy and we are all doing the best we can. I know my own brother suffered much more than I did over our parents divorce...he was 3, I was 7. I think if my mom had found a man then like the one she is married to now the influence could have been positive on my brother. However, she did not trust her 'picker' and she was very worried she would end up in a bad marriage with someone who would harm us in some way. So she stayed single for 28 years.

[Storygirl]

I wanted to let the adoption comments go by and not read this thread any more, but I woke up today with it on my mind, and I want to try to explain why they are so hurtful.

 

Change the topic to something that some of you can relate to:

 

"Those homeschool families really try hard to educate and love their children, but I can see from outside the situation that it's really not working."

 

"That family with the special needs kid...I know they work at it, but it's obvious they don't love that child as much as their other children."

 

"Those homeschoolers are going to have socialization problems."

 

"My friend who adopted faced some issues that I haven't faced as a parent, so all adoptive families must be that way."

 

"Those (fill in any ethnicity) people start out with so much baggage that I don't want to try to help, because I'll just mess them up more. I'll keep my distance but still consider them damaged from afar."

 

These are all hurtful generalizations.

 

In adoptive families, feelings can be complicated. In typical families, feelings can be complicated. In adoptive families, people may have to work at connecting and understanding each other. The same for any family. Some birth mothers find it takes time to bond with their infant, just as it may take time to bond with a new child who has been adopted. Some birth parents face rebellion and turmoil with their bio kids, just as some adoptive families deal with that. And some DON'T.

 

And I don't find it harder to love and bond with my children, because they are not white like me.

 

And it is condescending for anyone to say to me that having my children was something "worth doing" as if I take care of my children out of some kind sense of duty.

 

Can there be issues related to parenting that are specific to adoption? Yes!! Sure, just as there are issues related to parenting kids who are homeschooled or kids who have special needs or kids who have rebellious personalities.

 

Just as there are issues that come up WHEN RAISING ANY CHILD, because every child is unique.

 

If this had been a thread about challenges when adopting, discussing the adoption related issues would have been very different.

 

But let's keep in mind that the topic of the thread is "It almost never works out well" and that the subject of adoption was almost immediately introduced.

 

Adoption has worked out well for my family and all of the other adoptive families that I know. Sometimes things are messy, because life is messy.

 

It was just offensive to introduce adoption into a thread with that title and then make generalizations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"

[Caroline]

Storygirl, thank you for your posts.

[Storygirl]

Arctic Mama, truthfully, I did not expect you to understand what I am saying.

 

But I had to say it anyway.

[Catwoman]

I wanted to let the adoption comments go by and not read this thread any more, but I woke up today with it on my mind, and I want to try to explain why they are so hurtful.

 

Change the topic to something that some of you can relate to:

 

"Those homeschool families really try hard to educate and love their children, but I can see from outside the situation that it's really not working."

 

"That family with the special needs kid...I know they work at it, but it's obvious they don't love that child as much as their other children."

 

"Those homeschoolers are going to have socialization problems."

 

"My friend who adopted faced some issues that I haven't faced as a parent, so all adoptive families must be that way."

 

"Those (fill in any ethnicity) people start out with so much baggage that I don't want to try to help, because I'll just mess them up more. I'll keep my distance but still consider them damaged from afar."

 

These are all hurtful generalizations.

 

In adoptive families, feelings can be complicated. In typical families, feelings can be complicated. In adoptive families, people may have to work at connecting and understanding each other. The same for any family. Some birth mothers find it takes time to bond with their infant, just as it may take time to bond with a new child who has been adopted. Some birth parents face rebellion and turmoil with their bio kids, just as some adoptive families deal with that. And some DON'T.

 

And I don't find it harder to love and bond with my children, because they are not white like me.

 

And it is condescending for anyone to say to me that having my children was something "worth doing" as if I take care of my children out of some kind sense of duty.

 

Can there be issues related to parenting that are specific to adoption? Yes!! Sure, just as there are issues related to parenting kids who are homeschooled or kids who have special needs or kids who have rebellious personalities.

 

Just as there are issues that come up WHEN RAISING ANY CHILD, because every child is unique.

 

If this had been a thread about challenges when adopting, discussing the adoption related issues would have been very different.

 

But let's keep in mind that the topic of the thread is "It almost never works out well" and that the subject of adoption was almost immediately introduced.

 

Adoption has worked out well for my family and all of the other adoptive families that I know. Sometimes things are messy, because life is messy.

 

It was just offensive to introduce adoption into a thread with that title and then make generalizations.

 

Beautifully said, Storygirl.

[Storygirl]

I'm not reading into what you said. I'm responding to your actual words.

[Tsuga]

Unless the courts are taking advice from her, her opinions haven't much practical value.

 

A lot of people, including our courts, base decisions on the best situation for the kids. Many families will argue for this from different moral and psychological positions.

 

So I would say that Dr. Laura's advice, when it falls within the band of non-hysterical reason, is relevant to arguments in family court.

 

I am VERY glad I listened to her advice on the year long waits: a year before dating, a year before meeting kids, a year before moving in. That's three years and it was fast. Many people move a lot faster.

 

It's too bad she's moved to the extreme position of saying "if someone leaves you, celibacy for life". I don't agree with that. I think it becomes, instead of, work super hard at the best life for your kids, a punishment for someone's getting divorced--even if one person is faithful and even if the kids need to see another adult that is not a hot mess of a human being.

[8circles]

I'm not reading into what you said. I'm responding to your actual words.

 

Im out of likes so consider all your posts liked.

 

thanks for putting yourself out there and sharing. 

 

im so sorry that people are so hurtful and arent able to apologize and see the hurt they cause. hugs.

[Tsuga]

I also want to say, regarding all the "it's so hard" comments.

 

It is hard. You know what's harder than thinking your stepmom doesn't like your mom? (Because eventually you will learn that your parents aren't perfect even if you're in a perfect nuclear family.)

 

• When your bio dad insults your mom in front of you all the time because he also doesn't like your mom and he has to live with her and he's going nuts!
• When your mom is bipolar and leaves you for weeks at a time!
• When your dad frequently empties your bank account so your mom calls grandma sobbing asking for cash so you can buy peanut butter.
• When your mom comes back from the doctor shaking in her car because she has an STD that daddy gave her, so she can't talk about it, sometimes she just breaks into sobs.
• When your dad comes home and slams the door off the house!
• When your mom works all night and sleeps 4 hours, gets up, for years in a row, and only quits the higher-paying night shift when the doctor tells her she has to stop now to stop early-onset dementia.
• When your mom tells you they can't find your dad.
• When your dad tells you "mom shouldn't have locked you in the closet. She's really stressed out right now but we'll get better."

 

The fact is, blended families have a minimum of two people involved who are at BEST not good at keeping promises, at worst violently and verbally abusive. So, that is going to mean that you're already in a negative extended family dynamic. Whether it comes from PTSD, NPD, ADHD, ASD (sorry for all the acronyms) or whatever, yes, you all are correct. Kids in families borne of divorce are going to deal with some major crap.

 

But here's the thing. Living with a single parent leaves kids in the same situation, with the following additional disadvantages:

• You never see a functioning male-female relationship had by a parent.
• You are living on half the income of the nation at large and face all the shame, fear and stress that being poor(er) can cause--this of course doesn't really apply to intentional single parents who usually have a plan.
• You wonder if nobody loves your mom/dad, will anybody love you?

 

I know that as the children of someone with NPD and PTSD, my kids will suffer, like I suffered. However, right now my partner and I are a force for stability in our kids' lives. It's not perfect, but it's way better than living with the bio-parents! My partner also had a loving, caring stepdad. They weren't super close, but as he went through college he always had a male role model to look up to. I'm super, super proud to think that my stepdaughter would even consider a profession that comes from my family. Obviously that comes from her talents, but I know she's been able to see what that is like through our family.

 

We aren't a picket fence but our problems don't come from being a family. Sadly they come from legacies of violence (domestic, military, and political) that have been passed down from everything from the Soviet Union and the US military, to internal family dynamics that are just creepy. We are working to change that and break the cycle and it's easier together.

 

 

[Ellie]

She also called homosexuals "a biological mistake" and has spread a fair amount of other nonsense over her career.  Not sure I would take anything she says as fact.

 

She was talking about her experiences with people who call her show. I listened to a fair amount of her show, and she's right: most calls were about issues regarding the children from a previous marriage not being treated well. Not all blended families are the Brady Bunch.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

She was talking about her experiences with people who call her show. I listened to a fair amount of her show, and she's right: most calls were about issues regarding the children from a previous marriage not being treated well. Not all blended families are the Brady Bunch.

 

Which is an obvious selection bias.

[Lecka]

My step-father is still in touch with his adult step-children from his second marriage. His marriage to my mom is number three for him.

 

They don’t have contact with their biological father, so my step-dad is really their dad and they call him dad. But they were both in their 20s when he and my mom got married.

 

One of them has two kids who know my step-dad as their grandfather.

 

I can’t say they are super close-knit but I always saw them a few times a year after he and my mom got married, and they would talk on the phone at least monthly. He’s a lot closer with the step-son than the step-daughter, though. The step-son is the one who has two kids. The step-daughter moved out of state at some point and then we only saw her around Christmas.

 

From what I have heard about their mom, she would have kept her kids from maintaining contact with my step-dad if they had been young when the divorce happened. I think my step-dad hung in there a couple extra years because of that.

 

Edit: I doubt many people my step-dad knows now even know that those kids aren’t his bio-kids. He calls them his kids and they call him dad. He doesn’t tell his friends they are his former step-kids. Basically all his friends haven’t known him that long and I doubt they are aware of it. He could easily have friends of 30 years not aware that those two kids were his step-kids. He’s been married to my mom 25 years.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Lecka

[DawnM]

Storygirl, what you missed is that this is not something from peering at the outside of situations I don’t know about. These are my friends and family. You’re right it doesn’t exactly fit into the subject at hand, but the difficulties in blending in family members when they aren’t biologically related is definitely a thing, and that’s the link in my mind.

 

I’m obviously not going to convince you and this clearly struck a nerve, but it wasn’t personal or said without basis. And I’m glad it’s not something you’re personally dealing with. That’s fantastic.

 

But I think the point was that you are basing a huge population off of the few that you know.....it doesn't matter if they are friends or family or whatever.

 

I have adopted.  I am part of two very large groups where adoption is the norm.  I have had a VERY different experience in observing them than you have in your observations.  

 

Does that mean one of us is wrong and the other right and it negates anyone else's experiences?  No, it doesn't.

 

The homes my adoptive kids are in are not at all what you are describing.  There is a lot of love, acceptance, and "she is MINE" not "my adopted child."

 

I can think of only one family where this isn't the case.  They do seem to treat their adopted daughter a bit differently.  But overall, I haven't seen it much,and certainly not the norm.

[Lecka]

It’s also quite depressing to me that people think my mom should (generically) have stayed single. My step-dad is a major, positive part of my life and I would be very sad to not have him as part of my life.

[Rachel]

It’s also quite depressing to me that people think my mom should (generically) have stayed single. My step-dad is a major, positive part of my life and I would be very sad to not have him as part of my life.

I feel the same way about my blended family. I don’t know why I keep looking at this thread.

[Lecka]

I also have an aunt who is my step-dad’s half sister, they have different biological fathers, but they were raised as siblings and do not make a distinction. People in their town would be mean to her about it though, it sounds like it was very ugly. But my step-dad’s dad wasn’t like that. It is all very offensive and hurtful, though, towards my aunt and my step-dad’s mom. I’m not sure if she had an out-of-wedlock birth or was abandoned by her first husband, but a lot of people didn’t want her to forget about it in their town. They moved at some point and I think it went away then, I’m not really sure. In their new town I’m sure they didn’t go around telling everybody that the oldest girl had a different father so that they could be the subject of gossip!

 

So I think that is a lot of the reason my step-dad is the way he is. He was raised to be a good person.

[Arcadia]

It’s also quite depressing to me that people think my mom should (generically) have stayed single. My step-dad is a major, positive part of my life and I would be very sad to not have him as part of my life.

My former colleague is a good step dad that was very involved in his step kids lives. He brags about all his kids in that proud dad way that really brightens the office day. He use his paternal childcare leave for all his kids. His wife’s ex-husband had just abandoned the kids. He has brought all his kids to office on his day off because he forgot his documents and decided it was easier to drop by and pick it up. Many in the office had a fun time pampering his kids. His first wife wasn’t interested in kids so he has full custody.

 

A good friend is going through a divorce from her narcissistic husband. Her oldest son is my oldest son’s age and a positive male influence would be helpful. Unfortunately she doesn’t have a male relative or friend who could help mentor.

[Liz CA]

Someone upthread said it depends largely on the maturity of the adults involved. I completely agree with this.

I also think almost all blended families would benefit from a little family counseling, at the beginning at least.

 

If the "new to the family" person comes in and tries to parent like a bio parent, it can backfire - unless the child is very young perhaps.

A lot of relationship building has to take place. Some adults think "I have dated their mother / father for a year or two years, I know the kids too." This is probably not enough. Once the newly formed family gets going, time should be set apart for fun - and only fun activities with the new parent. Rapport, trust and love don't just magically spring up when the wedding vows are said. 

I remember the words of a man who became the stepfather of two boys - I think 10 and 12 at the time. 

He said first of all, they are not my step children, the are my "bonus kids."

 

For the first year, I did no discipline them. I discussed with their mother what course of parenting may be best but not in front of them. I tried to build a relationship by taking them with me to go on pizza runs without Mom, go do "guy" stuff, play ball, etc. I saw my role initially as a supportive coach, bonding with them before I assumed the privilege of disciplining."

 

Not all people are interested in expending this much effort or know how to go about it.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Liz CA

[Selkie]

She was talking about her experiences with people who call her show. I listened to a fair amount of her show, and she's right: most calls were about issues regarding the children from a previous marriage not being treated well. Not all blended families are the Brady Bunch.

I've heard her say that the reason she recommends waiting to remarry until the kids are grown is because studies show that kids raised with stepparents have more stress and worse outcomes than those raised by a divorced or widowed parent who remains single. 

[Bluegoat]

I'm a bit weirded that people take statements like this so personally.  If you think it's not true, fine, or just too much of a generalization, fine.  But it's not some kind of personal commentary that means your life is wrong.

 

I grew up with a step-parent who was a great influence on my life, and a half-sister I have a good relationship with.  I'm glad my mom remarried and has a happy life.

 

I'm not unaware though that there are a lot of real problems that come with those kind of scenarios.  Maybe more often than not.  

 

And AM's comment about adopted kids often feeling "other" - yeah, my experience talking to adopted kids is that most of them feel that at some times, and the ones that don't are the exception.  And given the amount that adoption resources talk about the particular struggle of adoption from the parents POV, I can't help but think they are not uncommon even if they aren't most people.  I have some friends who have 4 adopted kids and are very involved in the international adoption community, and this s something they talk about with prospective parents up-front.

 

If that sort of thing is true, I don't really have a clue what it means to say it is hurtful so people shouldn't talk about it.  That doesn't change anything.  And if it isn't true - well, what's to be hurt by - it's an error.  Are we really not supposed to talk about the problems or effects of different social customs, situations, family decisions, because it hurts people's feelings?

[Storygirl]

Just to clarify, I don't have hurt feelings. Arctic Mama said that about me, but it isn't true.

 

I have not been posting out of "hurt," but out of a need to present my point of view as a adoptive parent. I've been posting, because there have been over 2,500 views of this thread (so far), and I did not want generalized statements to stand without addressing them. I've been posting so that people who have not adopted are not the only ones making statements about adoption in this thread (since I posted, some other adoptive parents have contributed, as well).

 

As I mentioned before, I have no problem discussing adoption issues with those who have adopted or who have an interest in learning more. I haven't said it shouldn't be discussed.

 

I definitely take issue with adoption being raised as a family situation that "almost never works out well" (according to the thread title) and with generalized statements made to support that point of view.

 

 

 

[8circles]

I've never heard the word "gross" used to mean messy and painful and challenging. I don't see that definition anywhere but maybe I don't know the latest dictionaries.

 

We can discuss just about anything, but if we aren't interested in being sensitive to people's feelings and situations, when we know that there are people in the discussion who have personal experience with these things, then that says something about our character.

 

[Bluegoat]

I tend to read "gross" as similar to "fat", so in some way out of control or just too much.  How that reads in the particular context of course will vary considerably.

[kesmom]

Remarriage/blending is just hard, regardless of whether or not new children are added. I'm another who agrees that the maturity of all adults involved probably affects the outcome more than anything.

 

My dad is in his 4th marriage. It has been a long marriage now and hopefully continues to be, but there have been struggles. They did not plan to have any additional children but got a surprise. Absolutely none of the family's problems have ever been related to the new child. Truthfully, the biggest contributor would be wife #3. 

 

In contrast, my mom has rarely even dated. I don't know if that has really been her preference (it's hard in a small town) but I think it was probably better for me as a child.

[Crimson Wife]

I've heard her say that the reason she recommends waiting to remarry until the kids are grown is because studies show that kids raised with stepparents have more stress and worse outcomes than those raised by a divorced or widowed parent who remains single. 

 

But unless the researchers separated out "stepparent caused the bio parents' marriage to collapse" from "stepparent came onto the scene well after the bio parents split", then it's going to be misleading. Because the absolute worst blended family situations I am personally aware of resulted from the former.

 

[Murphy101]

There’s facts and there’s optimism in the face of facts.

 

Fact is the percentage of divorces in second marriages is significantly higher than first marriages, regardless of situation.

 

Fact is, blended family situations are extremely difficult for children to cope with. Some might cope well, but many (most?) don’t.

 

While I understand wanting to be optimistic about beating those odds, truth is, I’m not going to bank on being the minority that manage to do so. I’ll stay married because I think it’s the right and loving thing to do, for my kids and for myself. And I do not expect my husband to make me happy. That’s not his problem, it’s mine.

 

I sincerely hope those more optimistic than me about divorce and or remarriage outcomes manage to beat the odds.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I tend to read "gross" as similar to "fat", so in some way out of control or just too much. How that reads in the particular context of course will vary considerably.

Well that’s a while ‘nother level of rude generalization.

[Χά�ων]

I think it's important to distinguish between the two things. Adoptive parenting is different that bio-parenting, even in households where both are happening at the same time. That's separate from loving your bio and adopted kids the same; it's absolutely possible to love them the same. Better to avoid putting the two things in the same sentence.

 

And as much as step-parent swear it's true they love their step-kids the same as their bio-kids, I've never once seen any make the long term effort to maintain as much of a relationship as possible when they get divorced. You may not have the legal means, but I've never seen one even try when the divorce was relatively amicable or when the step-kid turned 18 and could decide for themselves. So I don't really believe it.

I have seen a divorce where the step parent kept in touch with their former step kids.

[Spryte]

Generalizations like this don’t work all the time. I think OP’s friend has had a lot of experience with families who are having issues - or they wouldn’t be in family court.

 

Ideally, kids should be in healthy, intact families, whatever those families look like.

 

Personally, as an adult stepkid who had a pretty rotten experience because the adults involved were/are quite bitter, I see his point. In spades.

 

As a stepmom, I see it differently - then again, there were no prior marriages or divorces for DH or me, my stepkid was the now-happy surprise after a short fling of a teen, with no relationship to muddy things up. Still, stepkid had to deal with two households and parenting styles - there is no way that was always healthy or easy for him, and both DH and I would have changed it if we could. We tried, to no avail. I have regrets about some of it, but I can’t think of any way we might have changed things to have a better outcome (I can think of lots of ways we might have made things worse), and I know that we tried our very hardest to make things right for him. Often to our own detriment. He got a bad hand, genetically, and has mental health issues that would have cropped up, most likely, regardless of his upbringing. Stepparenting is hard, and not for the faint of heart.

 

Married to an adoptee who has two siblings - one also adopted, one a bio child - I’ve never seen any difference in attachment and treatment from the ILs. We have discussed this a lot, as DH obviously has one bio child and two adopted. I see no difference from him, either. And as elder care needs have become intense, it’s mostly the two adopted siblings who do the care.

 

And as an adoptive mom, who is also a stepmom, who was a single foster mom by age 26... I don’t even know what to say about the ugly experiences referenced above. Of course there are issues in adopted families, just as there are in every family. My personal experience has been extraordinary, and my kids are my kids, absolutely. If they have issues, they are still my kids.

 

Actually, I’d say that of all my kids - adopted and step and foster - my stepkid is also mine but differently. So is my former foster kid, who came to me when his mom, my best friend of many years, had died. Love is love, but it’s not always the same exactly.

 

DH and I are active in the adoption and foster community. We have only seen well bonded families.

 

We have, however, occasionally seen news stories about adoptive families that struggled, just like one sees stories about homeschooling families that struggle. We have privately commented to each other that the common theme we often see in those stories seems to be that couples sometimes adopt to “save a child†as something “worth doing†as opposed to adopting a child to build their family. It’s a subtle distinction, but some families seem to view adoption as a ministry, and those are the ones we sometimes see struggling in the news. So, another generalization perhaps, and I hate those, but it does seem to be an underlying theme to the negative news stories I’ve personally encountered.

 

ETA: I also find it distasteful to see adoptive families lumped in with stepfamilies under the title “it never works out well.†As a stepparent and adoptive parent, again, it is not the same.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Spryte

[Frances]

I agree. I have never adopted a child, but I have relatives and friends who have, and I have never gotten the slightest sense that they place a higher value on their biological children than they do on their adopted kids. And when they talk about their kids, they mean ALL of them. There’s no differentiation at all. The love is equal.

Unfortunately we saw it with former friends and it was very hard to witness. Part of it might have been due to the fact that they adopted because they thought they couldn’t have children and then had two very unexpected pregnancies in their 40s. It was obvious to everyone that once they had biological children, they wished they had never adopted. It seemed that their adopted child could do nothing right in their eyes and was a huge disappointment, while they absolutely adored and doted on their biological children.

 

I’m sure this type of situation is the exception, but it was very sad and hard to see it.

[Catwoman]

Unfortunately we saw it with former friends and it was very hard to witness. Part of it might have been due to the fact that they adopted because they thought they couldn’t have children and then had two very unexpected pregnancies in their 40s. It was obvious to everyone that once they had biological children, they wished they had never adopted. It seemed that their adopted child could do nothing right in their eyes and was a huge disappointment, while they absolutely adored and doted on their biological children.

 

I’m sure this type of situation is the exception, but it was very sad and hard to see it.

That poor kid! :crying: It must have been so hard for you to see that, and not be able to do anything to change it. :(

[amy g.]

There’s facts and there’s optimism in the face of facts.

 

Fact is the percentage of divorces in second marriages is significantly higher than first marriages, regardless of situation.

 

Fact is, blended family situations are extremely difficult for children to cope with. Some might cope well, but many (most?) don’t.

 

While I understand wanting to be optimistic about beating those odds, truth is, I’m not going to bank on being the minority that manage to do so. I’ll stay married because I think it’s the right and loving thing to do, for my kids and for myself. And I do not expect my husband to make me happy. That’s not his problem, it’s mine.

 

I sincerely hope those more optimistic than me about divorce and or remarriage outcomes manage to beat the odds.

This is 100% how I personally feel.

 

I hope for the very best outcome for everyone in second marriages and blended families but the odds are so stacked against a happy ending that I would never choose that for myself.

 

We suffered horribly when our mother remarried. I once asked my dad why he didn’t intervene. He said that honestly, he was just so happy that my stepfather had to deal with my mom instead of him and really, from the outside things looked okay.

[HS Mom in NC]

  I have some friends who have 4 adopted kids and are very involved in the international adoption community, and this s something they talk about with prospective parents up-front.

 

 

 

This was definitely true for us.  We're Caucasians who adopted our youngest from S.Korea and I would say it's very much an open, matter of fact conversation required of potential adoptive parents during parenting classes and in books, blogs, and at The Gathering (annual convention of S. Korean adoptees.) RAD is more openly discussed.(RAD can happen in adoptees who had no in utero exposures to substances and trauma and we were adopted at birth into ideal family situations.)   Identity issues within multiracial households are openly discussed. Our adoption agency was run by a licensed attachment therapist.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

 

We have, however, occasionally seen news stories about adoptive families that struggled, just like one sees stories about homeschooling families that struggle. We have privately commented to each other that the common theme we often see in those stories seems to be that couples sometimes adopt to “save a child†as something “worth doing†as opposed to adopting a child to build their family. It’s a subtle distinction, but some families seem to view adoption as a ministry, and those are the ones we sometimes see struggling in the news.

 

Yes!  A good adoption agency like ours screens for this.  It's actually part of the interview process where they try to weed out people who are looking for charity work and people who are looking to be parents for the rest of their lives. 

 

A friend of mine works for a fostercare placement agency.  She's a pastor's wife, so certainly not prejudiced against Christians, but she will tell you there is a subset of professing Christians for whom fostering is a ministry and they think of their adopted kids like wards, not like their own biological children. Some of the social workers have picked up on it and don't like placing foster kids in devout Christian homes because they're worried about it. When you think of that child as your own, you connect on the deepest level.  When you're just willing to take a child in until they're 18 and see that their fed, clothed, housed, educated, given medical care, and treated nicely, you aren't connecting at the same level. Kids pick up on the difference.  It may shock people to know that adopted children can be in either one of those two situations depending on the adoptive parent's mindset.

 

And that's separate from identity issues, complicated feelings about birth parents, etc. Those are real challenges that adoptive families deal with that make adoptive parenting different than biological parenting.

 

There's a parallel to that in step-parenting.  Depending on the step-parent's mindset, their level of connection can be deeper or shallower, even though the outward actions look similar. And that's separate from complicated feelings about biological parents and step-parents.  Like all adoptions situations, something went wrong somewhere in the bio-family which is why the child is in an adoption situation to begin with, so it's inherently more complicated and harder.   Like all step-parent situations, something went wrong somewhere in the bio-family situation to begin with, so it's inherently more complicated and harder.

 

Saying those things isn't denigrating or disparaging adoptive and step-parent families.  It's just objectively true.  Everyone should go in with eyes wide open and seek out knowledgeable counsel to help them through the challenges.   

[Tsuga]

There’s facts and there’s optimism in the face of facts.

 

Fact is the percentage of divorces in second marriages is significantly higher than first marriages, regardless of situation.

 

Fact is, blended family situations are extremely difficult for children to cope with. Some might cope well, but many (most?) don’t.

 

While I understand wanting to be optimistic about beating those odds, truth is, I’m not going to bank on being the minority that manage to do so. I’ll stay married because I think it’s the right and loving thing to do, for my kids and for myself. And I do not expect my husband to make me happy. That’s not his problem, it’s mine.

 

I sincerely hope those more optimistic than me about divorce and or remarriage outcomes manage to beat the odds.

I think what you are missing is that he can leave whether you like it or not.

 

Nobody can force someone to stay alive or married, so then what would you do?

 

And people ask why women stay getting hit again and again.

 

This is why.

[Bluegoat]

Yes!  A good adoption agency like ours screens for this.  It's actually part of the interview process where they try to weed out people who are looking for charity work and people who are looking to be parents for the rest of their lives. 

 

A friend of mine works for a fostercare placement agency.  She's a pastor's wife, so certainly not prejudiced against Christians, but she will tell you there is a subset of professing Christians for whom fostering is a ministry and they think of their adopted kids like wards, not like their own biological children. Some of the social workers have picked up on it and don't like placing foster kids in devout Christian homes because they're worried about it. When you think of that child as your own, you connect on the deepest level.  When you're just willing to take a child in until they're 18 and see that their fed, clothed, housed, educated, given medical care, and treated nicely, you aren't connecting at the same level. Kids pick up on the difference.  It may shock people to know that adopted children can be in either one of those two situations depending on the adoptive parent's mindset.

 

And that's separate from identity issues, complicated feelings about birth parents, etc. Those are real challenges that adoptive families deal with that make adoptive parenting different than biological parenting.

 

There's a parallel to that in step-parenting.  Depending on the step-parent's mindset, their level of connection can be deeper or shallower, even though the outward actions look similar. And that's separate from complicated feelings about biological parents and step-parents.  Like all adoptions situations, something went wrong somewhere in the bio-family which is why the child is in an adoption situation to begin with, so it's inherently more complicated and harder.   Like all step-parent situations, something went wrong somewhere in the bio-family situation to begin with, so it's inherently more complicated and harder.

 

Saying those things isn't denigrating or disparaging adoptive and step-parent families.  It's just objectively true.  Everyone should go in with eyes wide open and seek out knowledgeable counsel to help them through the challenges.   

 

About the bolded - in the original comment about adopted kids feeling "other" I didn't take it to mean anything about the parents and how they treat the kids or feel about the.  I took it to mean that for a lot of those kids, being adopted in itself creates a whole set of questions and emotions that can be difficult.  

 

Isn't that why in recent years we've seen so much more emphasis on children's rights with regard to adoption and especially restrictions on international adoption?  

 

In the same way, blended families have a whole set of particular issues that can crop up apart from all the ones that can affect every family.  They don't always come from the parents, either, they can come from the children themselves.

[Murphy101]

I think what you are missing is that he can leave whether you like it or not.

 

Nobody can force someone to stay alive or married, so then what would you do?

 

And people ask why women stay getting hit again and again.

 

This is why.

Sure he could. And I’d manage as best I could. And I do give some effort to planning for what to do if I’m on my own.

 

But he is not physically abusive, which is a whole other issue. Most people who get divorced aren’t getting beaten up.

 

And death is different than divorce. One doesn’t choose death. Well, usually anyways. And that’s a whole other issue too. And the trauma on the children is not the same either.

 

This discussion is about choices. Most of us are not being beaten or widowed. Those are a whole other ballgame. We have choices. And choosing to stay married the first time, statistically, is the better odds bet long term for the children. And really for the women too quite often. While I can understand why some might gamble against those odds, I wouldn’t and am not as optimistic about their chances of a slim win.

[Scarlett]

Sure he could. And I’d manage as best I could. And I do give some effort to planning for what to do if I’m on my own.

 

But he is not physically abusive, which is a whole other issue. Most people who get divorced aren’t getting beaten up.

 

And death is different than divorce. One doesn’t choose death. Well, usually anyways. And that’s a whole other issue too. And the trauma on the children is not the same either.

 

This discussion is about choices. Most of us are not being beaten or widowed. Those are a whole other ballgame. We have choices. And choosing to stay married the first time, statistically, is the better odds bet long term for the children. And really for the women too quite often. While I can understand why some might gamble against those odds, I wouldn’t and am not as optimistic about their chances of a slim win.

For the most part I agree with you. However I did want to point out that there are definitely worse things than being beaten

[HS Mom in NC]

About the bolded - in the original comment about adopted kids feeling "other" I didn't take it to mean anything about the parents and how they treat the kids or feel about the.  I took it to mean that for a lot of those kids, being adopted in itself creates a whole set of questions and emotions that can be difficult.  

 

Isn't that why in recent years we've seen so much more emphasis on children's rights with regard to adoption and especially restrictions on international adoption?  

 

In the same way, blended families have a whole set of particular issues that can crop up apart from all the ones that can affect every family.  They don't always come from the parents, either, they can come from the children themselves.

 

Yes, that's my point.  It's inherently more complicated because adoption itself comes with those complicated issues, which, as you say, is separate from issues with how the adoptive parents think of and interact with the kids.  I separate them out because they're different kinds of issues while many people outside the adoption community see them as parts of a single issue.

 

Restrictions on international adoption aren't related to any of that. It has to do with nationalism in country, (in country meaning the child's country of origin) adoption policy in country, international perceptions of countries that adopt children out of country, adoptees talking about in country conditions in orphanages, poor screening policies by countries of origin, how children come into the adoption process in country, government corruption in country, etc.  Each country of origin of adoptees has its own set of unique issues and each country handles it differently. 

 

Agreed.  As I said, every step-kid situation comes from a problem because the bio-parents aren't together anymore for a significant reason, so it's going to be harder. I have no idea why people get in such a dither when it's stated. 

 

[Lady Florida.]

I was a stepchild in a second marriage that didn't work out. My step siblings were all adults and married so that wasn't a factor. That the marriage didn't work out had nothing to do with my brother or me (I know this for a fact having heard it from both my mother and my ex-stepfaather). The marriage didn't work out because the two people involved had differences unrelated to child rearing, that they couldn't resolve.

 

 

I met my husband when he was a recently divorced dad of a very young toddler. I loved him, I loved her, I loved us. She was 7 when my son was born. They’ve never used the term “halfâ€. They’re brother and sister in our minds. She has a mom and stepdad who would have gladly raised my kid as their own if necessary.
I know there can be challenges with blended families, and I know there are non-blended families that are miserable because the children just don’t feel close.
I think it’s very depressing to make sweeping generalizations.

 

When I met my husband he had custody of his 13yo (and had since the boy was 7). I often joke that I raised a teenager first then went back and started with a baby - dss was 20 when ds was born. They are brothers, not half brothers. I love him even though I came into his life when he was almost grown. He loves me even though I came into his life when he was almost grown. I refer to him as both my stepson and my older son. Sometimes when talking to people I'll say something about "our older son". Not, my husband's son, not my stepson, but our son. I call his wife my daughter in law, she calls me her mother in law. I call his kids my grandsons. They call me Nonna.

 

I have been a step child and I am a step mother. I have not experienced a mix where there are children from both sides. As I said, my step siblings were already grown when our parents married, and my stepson was already grown when my son was born and I didn't already have a child. 

 

I'm not doubting statistics but I think it does a disservice to discourage people from marrying when there are already children in the mix.

 

 

She also called homosexuals "a biological mistake" and has spread a fair amount of other nonsense over her career.  Not sure I would take anything she says as fact.

 

Then there was her racist rant, but that might be what you're referring to with "other nonsense". 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Agreed.  As I said, every step-kid situation comes from a problem because the bio-parents aren't together anymore for a significant reason, so it's going to be harder. I have no idea why people get in such a dither when it's stated. 

 

 

People are not getting in a dither about stating that there can be problems.  People are saying that generalizations though are just that - generalizations.  And that just because there are potential problems doesn't mean that they can't often be worked out.  And that there are a lot of family dynamics and situations that come with problems - not just 2nd marriages with kids.  And that when you start adding adjectives like "gross" it is something to object to. 

[Tsuga]

Sure he could. And I’d manage as best I could. And I do give some effort to planning for what to do if I’m on my own.

 

But he is not physically abusive, which is a whole other issue. Most people who get divorced aren’t getting beaten up.

 

And death is different than divorce. One doesn’t choose death. Well, usually anyways. And that’s a whole other issue too. And the trauma on the children is not the same either.

 

This discussion is about choices. Most of us are not being beaten or widowed. Those are a whole other ballgame. We have choices. And choosing to stay married the first time, statistically, is the better odds bet long term for the children. And really for the women too quite often. While I can understand why some might gamble against those odds, I wouldn’t and am not as optimistic about their chances of a slim win.

 

This thread is not about choices.

 

I don't know anybody who wanted to get a divorce or who got one for fun or because it "wasn't working out". Literally everyone was divorcing for their physical health (either STD risks or being beaten or both) or in the most frivolous case, severe emotional and financial abuse leaving them penniless. Neither the abuser/rapist/thief wanted a divorce, nor did the person leaving want to be in a situation in which they were stuck with $2k + in legal bills simply for not letting an abuser/rapist/thief back into their life! Nobody wants that!

 

The extreme cases are not a "whole other ballgame". They are extremely common. You don't hear about it at the playground because it is uncouth. This isn't Real Housewives of LA. The reality is a lot of divorces happen because of imminent danger. You can usually tell because those are the people who only get divorced once--they learn what abusers look like, they understand red flags, and they don't make the same mistake twice.

 

That's the disconnect. People think that others get divorced because of towels on the bathroom floor or room colors. That's what adults say when the children are around. The real answer is much worse.

[Bluegoat]

Oh, I've known more than one divorce that wasn't about anything like abuse.  IN fact I'd say most weren't about that, and some were not even about a really dysfunctional relationship.  

[Murphy101]

This thread is not about choices.

 

I don't know anybody who wanted to get a divorce or who got one for fun or because it "wasn't working out". Literally everyone was divorcing for their physical health (either STD risks or being beaten or both) or in the most frivolous case, severe emotional and financial abuse leaving them penniless. Neither the abuser/rapist/thief wanted a divorce, nor did the person leaving want to be in a situation in which they were stuck with $2k + in legal bills simply for not letting an abuser/rapist/thief back into their life! Nobody wants that!

 

The extreme cases are not a "whole other ballgame". They are extremely common. You don't hear about it at the playground because it is uncouth. This isn't Real Housewives of LA. The reality is a lot of divorces happen because of imminent danger. You can usually tell because those are the people who only get divorced once--they learn what abusers look like, they understand red flags, and they don't make the same mistake twice.

 

That's the disconnect. People think that others get divorced because of towels on the bathroom floor or room colors. That's what adults say when the children are around. The real answer is much worse.

I'm well aware that physical abuse is common, but the data doesn't lie. Most divorces do not involve someone being beaten. That's just a fact. And I'll admit it's a sad fact simply bc it means too many people stay in marriage where they are beaten.

 

And no, again the data says you are wrong. Most abused people who remarry end up being abused again, often because their POV on what constitutes abuse is broken, for lack of a better term. I know many who can't seem to break that cycle. It's damned hard to see a sister go from a husband who threw her out of a second story apt while pregnant and beat her kids (he got full custody when they divorced 10 years later btw) to a husband who "just gets a bit crazy when when he has tequila". I mean sure, he hasn't tossed her out of a windom, just put her in the hospital when he drove drunk and spent all their money on booze. But to her? He is amazing. Simply because he has never hit her.

 

I fully support her divorcing both the dirt bags.

 

And yes, that's a whole other ball game from a couple who just aren't happy together or are dealing with sexual or financial infidelity. I can CHOOSE to work through or around those situations, if my spouse is willing to let me, but there's no working through or around getting the crap beat out me or my kids.