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How do you decide whether to bother applying to Ivies? (includes URochester discussion)

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No interest.  I've said my part.

 

What the dude, himself, did is nothing I condone, that's for sure.  I don't personally know anyone who feels it was appropriate, but it's still no excuse to try to ruin innocent people or the University as a whole either.

 

(Apparently there ARE people who don't mind that sort of stuff happening, esp if they were consensual folks who were encouraging him at the time.  It's a personality type I guess.  I just don't have any in my personal circles who fit in with that - at least - not openly to me.  I know some folks feel swearing is fine and dandy in regular ole conversation to anyone, but I don't have any of those in my personal circles either.  It doesn't mean they don't exist and it certainly doesn't mean innocent people should take the fallout if they happen to be near such a person when they're caught doing it in an inappropriate setting.)

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Creekland,

 

There is some of your post that does ring true to me. I do think that people have piled on Professor Jaeger. He's a scapegoat (as is Harvey Weinstein for entertainers) for others in academia who couldn't get justice for their own mistreatment or who witnessed abuse and didn't know how or have the power to stop it. For students who reported Title IX violations on campus and couldn't get the justice they sought.

However, I don't agree that anything you wrote shows that the facts are not on the accusers' side. A lot of what you describe is typical of how sexual harassment victims are gaslighted.

Others come up and say, "It must be in your head because he never harassed me!" or "He didn't joke with me in a way I didn't like." Secrets are kept by both the perpetrator and the victim. If confronted, there is an instinct on the part of the victim to minimize her experience and try not to make waves. (I saw my own daughter denying that her stalker was a stalker, despite all the precautions she was taking in response to this person's behavior. I made a list of everything she did and showed it to her and helped her see the big picture.)

Some of the reported harassment doesn't sound as serious. One example in the White report was about Jaeger standing silently directly behind someone with pen and post-it notes for an extended period of time. Yes, creepy and unprofessional. Sexual harassment? Actually, yes, when it fits into a bigger pattern of long term behavior. The main difference between the accusers and the UR side of the story is the unwillingness to look past the individual reports into the larger pattern of behavior. A year or two or six(!) of "not against university policy" individual incidents adds up to something that should be punishable. People had their academic opportunities and careers derailed because of it.

Your son was not the sort of person targeted. His girlfriend may have been protected by being under a different supervisor that protected his students from a known predator. They may not have first-hand information. Harassers are good at figuring out what they can get away with and with whom. Victims don't tell, or minimize, or hold back because they don't trust how the information will be used against them or because they don't want to be blacklisted in the field.

 

The accusers have my respect because there are so many of them corroborating each other. To say that "he was talked to" is sufficient reparations for the damage done is ridiculous, even if only most of the stories are mostly true. IMHO, saying that the accusers were causing trouble for demanding that sort of behavior have serious consequences is more gaslighting. When you talk about your daughter's case, the first word you used to describe this consequence was "nothing... other than tell him to knock it off." Is it a surprise that the victims in this case also saw the consequences Jaeger faced as "nothing?" Do you think they trust him to knock it off, or just to get better about covering his tracks. Because it is not hard at all to cover your tracks in academia.

 

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