Why the McDougall diet?

[Ann.without.an.e]

I have heard this mentioned on the boards a few times.  

 

So here is my current diet...

I am vegan and gluten-free for the exception of eggs that are in a gluten free baked good and an occasional piece of fish.  The fish mainly comes into play when I am eating out or there is a special occasion and I can't find anything that is gluten free and also vegan and fish is available.  I love veggies so being vegan is not that difficult for me.  

 

This morning for breakfast I made a salad with chickpeas, kale, onions, tomatoes, and yellow bell pepper.  I tossed it with some fresh squeezed lime juice, a little italian herbs, and just a small drizzle of EVOO.  I had this and a small gluten free roll (leftover from yesterday) with a tiny bit of earth balance, soy free "butter".  I also had coffee with Silk creamer. 

 

If I understand the McDougall diet correctly, I would have had to ditch the butter, the olive oil, and the coffee.  Is that right?

I am just not sure I am up for that  :lol:   It is hard enough being gluten free and vegan.  

 

I have been looking at the McDougall info though and I can see that people are passionate about it.  

So, convince me.  Why would I need it over what I do now?   :D

[Katy]

I'm not passionate about it, when I follow a vegan plan it tends to be a bit more like Fuhrman, but I think I can explain.

 

People who love McDougall tend to either be genetically sensitive to fats (fats increase their appetite, it is more satisfying for them to eat many fewer calories with no overt fats) or have some sort of inflammatory condition (autoimmune diseases) that are worsened by poor fat profiles.

 

McDougall's diet also tends to closely replicate the high starch low fat profile of many traditional diets around the world.  It is also cheap and easy - you can almost always order 4 plain baked potatoes, salsa, and steamed vegetables or a side salad no matter where you go.

 

Yes, you'd have to give up the soy butter and the olive oil.  I don't remember coffee being banned, but you would switch your silk to unsweetened vanilla almond milk (I think).

[Bluegoat]

I have heard this mentioned on the boards a few times.  

 

So here is my current diet...

I am vegan and gluten-free for the exception of eggs that are in a gluten free baked good and an occasional piece of fish.  The fish mainly comes into play when I am eating out or there is a special occasion and I can't find anything that is gluten free and also vegan and fish is available.  I love veggies so being vegan is not that difficult for me.  

 

This morning for breakfast I made a salad with chickpeas, kale, onions, tomatoes, and yellow bell pepper.  I tossed it with some fresh squeezed lime juice, a little italian herbs, and just a small drizzle of EVOO.  I had this and a small gluten free roll (leftover from yesterday) with a tiny bit of earth balance, soy free "butter".  I also had coffee with Silk creamer. 

 

If I understand the McDougall diet correctly, I would have had to ditch the butter, the olive oil, and the coffee.  Is that right?

I am just not sure I am up for that  :lol:   It is hard enough being gluten free and vegan.  

 

I have been looking at the McDougall info though and I can see that people are passionate about it.  

So, convince me.  Why would I need it over what I do now?   :D

 

I'm kind of curious about why you want to be convinced of it, if you like the way you eat now?  I can't see any reason you would want to cut out even more foods.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I'm kind of curious about why you want to be convinced of it, if you like the way you eat now?  I can't see any reason you would want to cut out even more foods.

 

 

 

In a perfect world, I would have pursued nutrition science as a career. I am passionate and fascinated by the ideas surrounding health and diet.  I am always seeking to learn. Once upon a time I thought the perfect diet was paleo. A vegan diet has helped me tremendously with inflammation, etc but I never would have found that out if I had been unwilling to look beyond paleo as the solution. Because of this, I love to ask "why" and am always open to new ideas.  

[Soror]

I'm kind of curious about why you want to be convinced of it, if you like the way you eat now?  I can't see any reason you would want to cut out even more foods.

Me too! 

[mamaraby]

McDougall works for me for basically the reasons Katy outlines. It’s why low carb and especially low carb, high fat was such a failure for me.

 

That being said, while it was instrumental in me losing the vast majority of the 100+ lbs I lost, even I had to slightly up the fat a little in order to make it more sustainable for me over time. The underlying principles continue to be how I eat on a daily basis.

 

I went vegan for my health, I stayed vegan because of changed tastebuds and ethics so fish and eggs wouldn’t be something I would eat.

 

I don’t think there is one perfect diet for all people, so if what you’re already eating works for you, then I think you should stick with that. :D

[Ann.without.an.e]

Me too! 

 

 

Post #4  :thumbup1:

[Bluegoat]

In a perfect world, I would have pursued nutrition science as a career. I am passionate and fascinated by the ideas surrounding health and diet.  I am always seeking to learn. Once upon a time I thought the perfect diet was paleo. A vegan diet has helped me tremendously with inflammation, etc but I never would have found that out if I had been unwilling to look beyond paleo as the solution. Because of this, I love to ask "why" and am always open to new ideas.  

 

I would be very careful about these kinds of restrictive diets that try and cut out more and more food groups.

[Soror]

Post #4 :thumbup1:

we crossposted. best wishes on your journey

[Ann.without.an.e]

we crossposted. best wishes on your journey

That’s what I assumed happened 😂â¤ï¸

[wintermom]

If you like ancient diets, olive oil is about as old as you can go. I see no reason at all to cut out something that's worked for humans for thousands of years. Modern diet fads change so often, go with something that has a proven track record.

[Ann.without.an.e]

If you like ancient diets, olive oil is about as old as you can go. I see no reason at all to cut out something that's worked for humans for thousands of years. Modern diet fads change so often, go with something that has a proven track record.

 

 

I have definitely considered this thought.  I just have a hard time letting go of olive oil and coffee  :laugh:

[wintermom]

I have definitely considered this thought.  I just have a hard time letting go of olive oil and coffee  :laugh:

 

:confused1:   I do not understand your motivation here. But you've started another diet thread, so this will probably fill several pages of discussion. Why not experiment a little more with your own body in the name of scientific research. Some people really seem to enjoy it.

[Ann.without.an.e]

:confused1:   I do not understand your motivation here. But you've started another diet thread, so this will probably fill several pages of discussion. Why not experiment a little more with your own body in the name of scientific research. Some people really seem to enjoy it.

 

 

I was simply curious if people have really found the McDougall diet worth it. Opening up a thread for the sake of hearing the experiences of others is not experimentation.  I don't have any additional motive.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Attolia

[Greta]

I haven't followed McDougall, so I can't relate any experiences, Attolia.  I'm a newbie vegan myself, and while I have tried to cut waaaay back on my consumption of refined fats, I haven't cut them out completely.  I like experimenting, though!  I am getting my cholesterol checked later this month, and it will be the first time since going vegan, so I'm very curious to see what it is.  If it isn't where I want it to be, then I'll tweak my diet further.

 

But for those who don't understand the motivation for considering cutting out olive oil, I wanted to share this:  https://nutritionfacts.org/video/olive-oil-and-artery-function/

[Greta]

Oh, and your breakfast salad sounds delicious!  I've been getting bored with my oatmeal-with-berries breakfasts and have been wanting some new ideas.  I need to break away from the idea that it has to be "breakfast" food.

 

 

ETA:  If you're interested in a pre-made oil-free dressing, this one is pretty good:  http://bragg.com/products/bragg-organic-fat-free-vinaigretter-salad-dressing.html

 

 

Unluckily for me, both vinegar and citrus trigger migraines.  So if anyone knows a vegan way to dress a salad without vinegar or citrus, I'm all ears!

Edited February 12, 2018 by Greta

[samba]

I follow McDougall because 1) I believe it is a nutritionally superior way of eating. 2) I personally have found it to be the most hunger-satisfying "diet". Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn has a lot to say about why we should not consume oil. It is devoid of nutrients, high in fat and calories and bad for your cardiovascular system.

 

Giving up oil (in salad dressing) was the only difficult aspect of this way of eating. But it probably has had the biggest impact on my ability to control my weight with little effort.

 

 

[Sandwalker]

I have heard this mentioned on the boards a few times.

 

So here is my current diet...

I am vegan and gluten-free for the exception of eggs that are in a gluten free baked good and an occasional piece of fish. The fish mainly comes into play when I am eating out or there is a special occasion and I can't find anything that is gluten free and also vegan and fish is available. I love veggies so being vegan is not that difficult for me.

 

This morning for breakfast I made a salad with chickpeas, kale, onions, tomatoes, and yellow bell pepper. I tossed it with some fresh squeezed lime juice, a little italian herbs, and just a small drizzle of EVOO. I had this and a small gluten free roll (leftover from yesterday) with a tiny bit of earth balance, soy free "butter". I also had coffee with Silk creamer.

 

If I understand the McDougall diet correctly, I would have had to ditch the butter, the olive oil, and the coffee. Is that right?

I am just not sure I am up for that [emoji38] It is hard enough being gluten free and vegan.

 

I have been looking at the McDougall info though and I can see that people are passionate about it.

So, convince me. Why would I need it over what I do now? :D

Does gluten bother your health? It's far easier to do vegan with grains. You're not leaving yourself much to eat if you do McDougall gluten-free.

(I'm vegan)

Edited February 12, 2018 by Sandwalker

[Sandwalker]

McDougall's diet is called the Starch Solution and has reversed heart disease in his patients. It was originally formulated for cardiac patients. Doing it gluten free is not, from my understanding, recommended.

 

We've been vegan for years, and eat very little added oils. When we first went vegan this was not the case. For our fats we use tahini, nuts and but butters, seeds, avocado, etc. Our salad dressings are oil-free.

[lllll]

nm

Edited February 15, 2018 by rozes

[Ann.without.an.e]

Does gluten bother your health? It's far easier to do vegan with grains. You're not leaving yourself much to eat if you do McDougall gluten-free.

(I'm vegan)

 

 

Yes, it does.  I have an auto immune condition that is much worse when I have gluten. For this reason I am strictly gluten free.

 

I can eat potatoes, quinoa, rice, gluten free oats, and gluten free breads or pastas made with sorghum and rice.  Just not wheat.

[mytwomonkeys]

I really like Dr. McDougall and The Starch Solution. His plan is very satisfying and doable. I don’t strictly follow his regimen, but I always lean toward a high starch/ low fat diet. It works very well for me.

 

ETA- I’ve yet to be convinced to part with my morning coffee 😊

Edited February 12, 2018 by mytwomonkeys

[Ann.without.an.e]

ETA- I’ve yet to be convinced to part with my morning coffee 😊

 

 

This is what matters most  :lol:  I have tried and I just can't  :svengo:

[Katy]

You can easily do McDougall and be gluten free.  It's just more difficult in restaurants.

 

Low fat, high carb vegan, or even SOS free (no sugar, oil, or salt) are both pretty popular on YouTube.

[mamaraby]

Unluckily for me, both vinegar and citrus trigger migraines. So if anyone knows a vegan way to dress a salad without vinegar or citrus, I'm all ears!

Salsa? Thinned out hummus?

 

Most of the one’s at this link won’t work, but there are a few that are both vingear and citrus free - https://sites.google.com/site/hgkprintablerecipes/big-list-of-no-oil-salad-dressings

[Greta]

Salsa? Thinned out hummus?

 

Most of the one’s at this link won’t work, but there are a few that are both vingear and citrus free - https://sites.google.com/site/hgkprintablerecipes/big-list-of-no-oil-salad-dressings

Ooh, thank you SO MUCH!

[regentrude]

But for those who don't understand the motivation for considering cutting out olive oil, I wanted to share this:  https://nutritionfacts.org/video/olive-oil-and-artery-function/

 

But isn't the Mediterranean diet supposed to be so healthy? People sure live long on it. And they do consume plenty of olive oil.

[Greta]

But isn't the Mediterranean diet supposed to be so healthy? People sure live long on it. And they do consume plenty of olive oil.

Right, but I guess the question is whether it’s a healthy diet because of the olive oil, or in spite of the olive oil. I think it’s healthier than cream, butter, lard, tallow, etc. Just not sure how healthy it is.

[regentrude]

Right, but I guess the question is whether it’s a healthy diet because of the olive oil, or in spite of the olive oil. I think it’s healthier than cream, butter, lard, tallow, etc. Just not sure how healthy it is.

 

But there is also quality of life,and delicious food is part of that. Olive oil, cream, butter - people have eaten all these in moderation and lived long lives at good health.

At some point the hunt for "healthy" diet by cutting out vast portions of the foods in traditional diets becomes absurd.

Edited February 13, 2018 by regentrude

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I'm with Katy, if you want to go stricter, try fuhrman over McDougall - you get fats such as nuts, seeds, avocado, a little olive oil.

 

He prefers no oil but doesn't believe a spoonful now and then is a problem, or suggests not doing a lot of nuts and avocado on the same day as your olive oil IF you are trying to lose weight - nuts, seeds, avocado are not restricted in persons who do not need to lose weight, and everybody consumes some of these fats every day.

 

Fuhrman also allows fish and chicken each, once a week, in small portions, if you don't want to be vegetarian.

 

It's still a super high veg, super nutritious, low fat, lower grain diet that is very easy to do gluten free and/or vegan.

[Katy]

But there is also quality of life,and delicious food is part of that. Olive oil, cream, butter - people have eaten all these in moderation and lived long lives at good health.

At some point the hunt for "healthy" diet by cutting out vast portions of the foods in traditional diets becomes absurd.

 

It might be completely absurd - for you.  And fit much better the lifestyle and genetics of someone else.  If there's one thing my health issues have taught me, it's that genetics matter, and what makes someone else more healthy makes sometimes makes me sick.

 

Some people thrive on Kombucha.  Others get acidosis from it and die.

Some people do better on all fermented foods.  Others don't break down histamine very well, and it throws them into illness every time they try to be more healthy.

Some people do great eating whole wheat.  As someone with a wheat allergy, that would kill me.

Some people do best on a high fat diet.  Others medium with olive oil.  Others do best with only 1-2 servings of natural fats per day (avocado, nuts), or no extra fats at all.

 

There are plenty of people for whom a diet like McDougall makes them healthier and happier than they have ever been.  Others find that many carbs sends their blood sugar out of whack and makes them hungrier.  The difference is genetics.

[Greta]

But there is also quality of life,and delicious food is part of that. Olive oil, cream, butter - people have eaten all these in moderation and lived long lives at good health.

At some point the hunt for "healthy" diet by cutting out vast portions of the foods in traditional diets becomes absurd.

Well, first, I should explain that I’m not trying to convince anyone to cut out olive oil. The question was asked why would one want to, and I attempted an answer. That’s all. I haven’t cut it out myself, but I can understand why some choose to. Especially those who have heart disease or who are at high risk for it.

 

I am finding that the things I do to try to extend my life are improving my quality of life as well.

 

Personally I think it’s far more absurd that the leading causes of death in this country are dietary. And not in a way that we can’t control, like not having access to healthy foods. But because we have unlimited access to unhealthy foods and we eat them abundantly. But, even so, I don’t try to tell other people how to eat. I really enjoy discussing nutrition with others who are interested in it, though.

[Soror]

There are plenty of people for whom a diet like McDougall makes them healthier and happier than they have ever been.  Others find that many carbs sends their blood sugar out of whack and makes them hungrier.  The difference is genetics.

I totally agree with you here. It will be interesting to see things develop as genetic testing continues to expand, telling us all kinds of things we only dreamed of before. It seems to often this POV is missing from health and nutrition convos though. It is more like this is the best diet ever, for everyone,  if it doesn't work for you are you are doing it wrong. Sometimes our bodies change as well, what works at one age/stage of life, doesn't at another.  I'm all for striving to be healthy, and aim to base my diet on whole foods and lots of veggies, but having been down the road of having to limit food I can't wrap my brain around purposely doing it without a reason because it is a PITA. 

 

side note--- I LOVE kombucha but avoid it sometimes due to histamine issues. 

[samba]

I'm with Katy, if you want to go stricter, try fuhrman over McDougall - you get fats such as nuts, seeds, avocado, a little olive oil.

 

He prefers no oil but doesn't believe a spoonful now and then is a problem, or suggests not doing a lot of nuts and avocado on the same day as your olive oil IF you are trying to lose weight - nuts, seeds, avocado are not restricted in persons who do not need to lose weight, and everybody consumes some of these fats every day.

 

Fuhrman also allows fish and chicken each, once a week, in small portions, if you don't want to be vegetarian.

 

It's still a super high veg, super nutritious, low fat, lower grain diet that is very easy to do gluten free and/or vegan.

 

[samba]

I just wanted to point out that McDougall does not promote cutting out all fats. He recommends that they be no more than 10% of your daily intake, especially if you are trying to lose weight. Nuts, seeds, avocados are often listed in the thousands of free recipes McDougall has offered. He promotes no added oils as your fats because they are devoid of nutrients, calorie dense and artery clogging.

 

For those people who need to gain weight, increasing foods that are naturally higher in fat like avocados, nuts and seeds is almost always the first recommendation that he makes.

[Ausmumof3]

But there is also quality of life,and delicious food is part of that. Olive oil, cream, butter - people have eaten all these in moderation and lived long lives at good health.

At some point the hunt for "healthy" diet by cutting out vast portions of the foods in traditional diets becomes absurd.

I might be getting posters confused but I think op has posted about a fairly significant weight issue that hasn't responded to diets before. I might be wrong. In that context the desire to cut certain foods to address it becomes more understandable.

 

Forgive me if I have confused the posters though.

 

For me I love olive oil but having done our own olive beating etc it's pretty intensive work that probably counteracts the calories!

[Bluegoat]

I might be getting posters confused but I think op has posted about a fairly significant weight issue that hasn't responded to diets before. I might be wrong. In that context the desire to cut certain foods to address it becomes more understandable.

 

Forgive me if I have confused the posters though.

 

For me I love olive oil but having done our own olive beating etc it's pretty intensive work that probably counteracts the calories!

 

The idea though that cutting whole foods groups out is a key to weight loss - that doesn't necessarily follow.  There is a review of diets done every year by a panel of doctors, nutritionists, etc, and these kins of diets - which are a fad at the moment - are coming out the worst every year.  

 

There is a potential link here to weight loss, because there is a lot of research on diets, unsustainable diets, fad diets.  And the research says that while people may lose for a while, dieting makes people gain weight.  What this suggests is that while losing weight may well mean changing your eating, trying out a lot of new diets is probably not the way to go about it and may even make things worse.

[samba]

The idea though that cutting whole foods groups out is a key to weight loss - that doesn't necessarily follow.  There is a review of diets done every year by a panel of doctors, nutritionists, etc, and these kins of diets - which are a fad at the moment - are coming out the worst every year.  

 

There is a potential link here to weight loss, because there is a lot of research on diets, unsustainable diets, fad diets.  And the research says that while people may lose for a while, dieting makes people gain weight.  What this suggests is that while losing weight may well mean changing your eating, trying out a lot of new diets is probably not the way to go about it and may even make things worse.

 

We're talking about the McDougall diet, which has been around for at least 30 years. His message has not changed, people have reversed disease, regained health and acheived sustainable weight loss with healthy bloodwork to back it up. It's based on long-lived populations who have followed this way of eating for generations. Only when these groups move toward a more westernized diet does their health begin to deteriorate.

 

I agree with you about the unsustainability of fad diets but McDougall is not one of them. :)

[Bluegoat]

We're talking about the McDougall diet, which has been around for at least 30 years. His message has not changed, people have reversed disease, regained health and acheived sustainable weight loss with healthy bloodwork to back it up. It's based on long-lived populations who have followed this way of eating for generations. Only when these groups move toward a more westernized diet does their health begin to deteriorate.

 

I agree with you about the unsustainability of fad diets but McDougall is not one of them. :)

 

Traditionally vegan populations that also don't allow much oil?  I don't think there are even any of the former, much less ones that really restrict oil.  The closest I can think of would be the fasting diets of people, particularly monastics, in the Christian east, but those are only followed for part of the year.  

 

Anyway, every diet plan has people who have lost weight, cured disease, etc. Those are the bread and butter of every diet guru. If you can stay on a restrictive diet like that for any length of time, you lose weight.  But most people have a hard time following them long-term and that is what leads to yo-yoing and switching around for the next thing.  

[samba]

My only point in posting was to clear up misconceptions about the McDougall diet for people who are curious about it. I'd hate for someone to dismiss it because they got inaccurate information, especially if this way of eating could help with some health issue they are battling.

 

McDougall is a practicing MD, not a diet guru. He's been saying the same thing for 30+ years. ALL of his info is available for free. That's not bread and butter. Most people who adopt this way of eating find it liberating and they have no desire to go back to the Standard American Diet.

 

I believe people arrive when they are ready and not until then. I rarely discuss my food choices in real life. To each his own. But if someone asks, like here, I'm happy to share.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I'm kind of curious about why you want to be convinced of it, if you like the way you eat now?  I can't see any reason you would want to cut out even more foods.

 

 

 

:confused1:   I do not understand your motivation here. But you've started another diet thread, so this will probably fill several pages of discussion. Why not experiment a little more with your own body in the name of scientific research. Some people really seem to enjoy it.

 

 

But there is also quality of life,and delicious food is part of that. Olive oil, cream, butter - people have eaten all these in moderation and lived long lives at good health.

At some point the hunt for "healthy" diet by cutting out vast portions of the foods in traditional diets becomes absurd.

 

 

It might be completely absurd - for you.  And fit much better the lifestyle and genetics of someone else.  If there's one thing my health issues have taught me, it's that genetics matter, and what makes someone else more healthy makes sometimes makes me sick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I totally agree with you here. It will be interesting to see things develop as genetic testing continues to expand, telling us all kinds of things we only dreamed of before. It seems to often this POV is missing from health and nutrition convos though. It is more like this is the best diet ever, for everyone,  if it doesn't work for you are you are doing it wrong. Sometimes our bodies change as well, what works at one age/stage of life, doesn't at another.  I'm all for striving to be healthy, and aim to base my diet on whole foods and lots of veggies, but having been down the road of having to limit food I can't wrap my brain around purposely doing it without a reason because it is a PITA. 

 

side note--- I LOVE kombucha but avoid it sometimes due to histamine issues. 

 

 

I might be getting posters confused but I think op has posted about a fairly significant weight issue that hasn't responded to diets before. I might be wrong. In that context the desire to cut certain foods to address it becomes more understandable.

 

Forgive me if I have confused the posters though.

 

For me I love olive oil but having done our own olive beating etc it's pretty intensive work that probably counteracts the calories!

 

 

The idea though that cutting whole foods groups out is a key to weight loss - that doesn't necessarily follow.  There is a review of diets done every year by a panel of doctors, nutritionists, etc, and these kins of diets - which are a fad at the moment - are coming out the worst every year.  

 

There is a potential link here to weight loss, because there is a lot of research on diets, unsustainable diets, fad diets.  And the research says that while people may lose for a while, dieting makes people gain weight.  What this suggests is that while losing weight may well mean changing your eating, trying out a lot of new diets is probably not the way to go about it and may even make things worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I quoted several of you because I feel there is so much I need to explain and clarify.  Yes, some of you don't understand why in the world someone would care so much about diet.  I get that you don't understand it.  For those with Chronic illnesses, we are so desperate to find solutions.  Tweaking diet has helped me and brought relief and I am willing to be a learner and tweak more if necessary.  This is NOT primarily about longevity for me.  This is NOT primarily about weight loss for me.  My goal and motivation here is to reduce inflammation.  Since my early twenties, my inflammatory numbers have been high.  I have a higher SED rate and C Reactive protein rate than my kid whose number are sky high because of crohn's disease.  I also have some other auto immune and inflammatory markers that are increased.  Other than Hashimoto's, the doctors don't know quite what is going on with the inflammation in my body.  Every blood draw I have suggests that I am teetering on the edge of either MS, Lupus, or Rheumatoid arthritis.  With all of the new studies linking inflammation to Alzheimers and dementia, combined with the fact that I am constantly battling inflammation...yes, I am willing to tweak my diet in any direction I need if it will help me decrease or avoid one of these devastating illnesses.  My doctor has pretty much called me a ticking time bomb.  When I first began having issues she estimated I was no more than ten years away from a firm diagnosis.  That has been over 15 years ago.  Right away, in the midst of that struggle, I cut out all dairy and gluten and started really watching my diet.  It greatly helped my symptoms and I believe it is most likely why I don't have a full blown diagnosis yet.

 

My weight does fluctuate greatly and I would love to lose a little weight.  I eat extremely healthy and still battle pounds.  But I had to let go of that. I am most concerned about my health and lowering inflammation.  I feel optimistic that if I could find an ideal solution to getting rid of my inflammation completely then the weight would take care of itself. 

 

 

Oh and I quoted someone about histamine and kombucha.  Really?  I had no idea! I started drinking kombucha when I was on antibiotics for pneumonia and I have wheezed since.  I feel like it is an allergy.  Allergy meds relieve it some.  Now I am truly wondering if I need to nix the kombucha.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Attolia

[Soror]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I quoted several of you because I feel there is so much I need to explain and clarify.  Yes, some of you don't understand why in the world someone would care so much about diet.  I get that you don't understand it.  For those with Chronic illnesses, we are so desperate to find solutions.  Tweaking diet has helped me and brought relief and I am willing to be a learner and tweak more if necessary.  This is NOT primarily about longevity for me.  This is NOT primarily about weight loss for me.  My goal and motivation here is to reduce inflammation.  Since my early twenties, my inflammatory numbers have been high.  I have a higher SED rate and C Reactive protein rate than my kid whose number are sky high because of crohn's disease.  I also have some other auto immune and inflammatory markers that are increased.  Other than Hashimoto's, the doctors don't know quite what is going on with the inflammation in my body.  Every blood draw I have suggests that I am teetering on the edge of either MS, Lupus, or Rheumatoid arthritis.  With all of the new studies linking inflammation to Alzheimers and dementia, combined with the fact that I am constantly battling inflammation...yes, I am willing to tweak my diet in any direction I need if it will help me decrease or avoid one of these devastating illnesses.  My doctor has pretty much called me a ticking time bomb.  When I first began having issues she estimated I was no more than ten years away from a firm diagnosis.  That has been over 15 years ago.  Right away, in the midst of that struggle, I cut out all dairy and gluten and started really watching my diet.  It greatly helped my symptoms and I believe it is most likely why I don't have a full blown diagnosis yet.

 

My weight does fluctuate greatly and I would love to lose a little weight.  I eat extremely healthy and still battle pounds.  But I had to let go of that. I am most concerned about my health and lowering inflammation.  I feel optimistic that if I could find an ideal solution to getting rid of my inflammation completely then the weight would take care of itself. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  Very helpful.

 

Oh and I quoted someone about histamine and kombucha.  Really?  I had no idea! I started drinking kombucha when I was on antibiotics for pneumonia and I have wheezed since.  I feel like it is an allergy.  Allergy meds relieve it some.  Now I am truly wondering if I need to nix the kombucha.

 

I do sympathize but I guess I've gone the opposite direction in that I no longer believe there is any miracle diet, especially not one that is good for everyone. I feel a lot of it is snake oil to be quite honest. I also see proponents of this diet saying they cured xyz and then this totally different diet touts the same thing, so I think there is so much that is individual and there are no sure bets. I also don't think cutting out food groups is without negatives. I do wish you the best on your journey. 

[samba]

Attiola, I first stumbled upon McDougall 9 years ago when I was researching auto-immune diseases. My daughter had just been diagnosed with vitiligo at age 9 and my son, because of Trisomy 21, is predisposed to a thyroid condition. My daughter's condition does not follow a predictable progression so there is no way to confirm whether this "diet" has helped her BUT she has had NO progression of symptoms...most people don't even know she has it. My son's thyroid is still in a healthy place and he is quite lean, unlike his Trisomy 21 peers who are already battling obesity in their teens. 

 

This way of eating has helped many with MS, RA, lupus, diabetes, heart dieseas, etc. We didn't come to McDougall for weight loss. It's just been a nice bonus for me. It's always been about a healthy future for myself and my kids. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

There seems to be a distribution curve for diets where high fat/low carb and ultra low fat/high carb both yield incredible results, ironically the middle two quartile are where you see issues metabolically for a lot of folks. Moderation works except when it doesn’t, especially for combatting inflammation and associated conditions. It’s kind of fascinating but there is some emerging research to suggest that both extremes ‘hack’ basic body systems and allow it to heal in a way a balanced, typical diet doesn’t. And that it doesn’t matter for a segment of the population at all - they’re the ones who can move healthfully with a given diet and not really struggle with additional comorbidities or weight.

 

It’s totally funky but the numbers are compelling.

 

 

 

I completely agree with this and this is the conclusion I have come to.  I think that both work, maybe it is that one type works for some and the other type for another or maybe either of the extremes works and we just need to choose?  I do think there is too much success surrounding both ideas to say that one way is right for everyone.  For me, I didn't really mind the high fat, low carb paleo lifestyle so much but I have never been a big meat eater and I just don't feel great when I eat high fat.  If both extremes work then I personally prefer the gluten free version of vegan with low-moderate amount of fat.  For me this  is a preference and not a right vs wrong.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Attolia

[Ann.without.an.e]

I do sympathize but I guess I've gone the opposite direction in that I no longer believe there is any miracle diet, especially not one that is good for everyone. I feel a lot of it is snake oil to be quite honest. I also see proponents of this diet saying they cured xyz and then this totally different diet touts the same thing, so I think there is so much that is individual and there are no sure bets. I also don't think cutting out food groups is without negatives. I do wish you the best on your journey. 

 

 

 

 

I actually do not believe in a miracle diet cure either.  I have found some success with diet and I am always questioning if tweaking more could help more.  I am open to ideas, but am actually pretty slow to commit to anything.  I thought about paleo for years before trying it.  I considered vegan for years before trying it.  I think those are about the only ones I have really committed to actually.  I am not as quick to jump as some might assume.  McDougall isn't a whole new diet, it is just a tweaking of vegan.  

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  I have really appreciate them.  :grouphug:

[Ann.without.an.e]

Attiola, I first stumbled upon McDougall 9 years ago when I was researching auto-immune diseases. My daughter had just been diagnosed with vitiligo at age 9 and my son, because of Trisomy 21, is predisposed to a thyroid condition. My daughter's condition does not follow a predictable progression so there is no way to confirm whether this "diet" has helped her BUT she has had NO progression of symptoms...most people don't even know she has it. My son's thyroid is still in a healthy place and he is quite lean, unlike his Trisomy 21 peers who are already battling obesity in their teens. 

 

This way of eating has helped many with MS, RA, lupus, diabetes, heart dieseas, etc. We didn't come to McDougall for weight loss. It's just been a nice bonus for me. It's always been about a healthy future for myself and my kids. 

 

 

 

I have really appreciated your thoughts and input on this thread.  Thank you for taking the time to do this.  I thought that Mc Dougall was hard core against any oil or fat at all.  I have no idea where I read this?  And I don't want to give up coffee  :lol:   Other than that, I am already so close to his idea of ideal.  My family is not vegan and so I keep the organic, cage-free eggs in play only when baking something because they don't like when I make things egg-free and I just don't have the time or energy to cook that separately.  I really don't eat a ton of baked stuff though.  I need to keep sanity somewhere.  My whole family is dairy free so that is easy.  

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I just wanted to point out that McDougall does not promote cutting out all fats. He recommends that they be no more than 10% of your daily intake, especially if you are trying to lose weight. Nuts, seeds, avocados are often listed in the thousands of free recipes McDougall has offered. He promotes no added oils as your fats because they are devoid of nutrients, calorie dense and artery clogging.

 

For those people who need to gain weight, increasing foods that are naturally higher in fat like avocados, nuts and seeds is almost always the first recommendation that he makes.

Thank you! I definitely had the wrong info on McDougall and fat. If it's up to 10% and no oils, that's not far from Fuhrman.

[samba]

Thank you! I definitely had the wrong info on McDougall and fat. If it's up to 10% and no oils, that's not far from Fuhrman.

 

I actually started with Fuhrman and liked it but found it a little harder to sustain. I love fruits and vegetables but the starch aspect of McDougall helped satisfy my hunger more. I think they are both great approaches.

[StaceyinLA]

I do sympathize but I guess I've gone the opposite direction in that I no longer believe there is any miracle diet, especially not one that is good for everyone. I feel a lot of it is snake oil to be quite honest. I also see proponents of this diet saying they cured xyz and then this totally different diet touts the same thing, so I think there is so much that is individual and there are no sure bets. I also don't think cutting out food groups is without negatives. I do wish you the best on your journey. 

 

I have been having this issue lately. On the one hand I think a vegetarian/vegan diet could be best (i'd never be vegan because I just think you wind up with too many meat/dairy substitutes that aren't without their own issues), but OTOH, you read so much about grains and all the recent research about how bad they are.

 

I'm kinda thinking that the best diet is the one with no garbage in it, and a healthy balance of foods in as close to their natural state as possible. I buy meats that are grass-fed or at least pasture-raised (and local). I buy grass-fed cream for my coffee (I rarely drink milk, but I buy grass-fed anyway). I buy grass-fed butter and ghee and I'm pretty generous with butter when I use it on things. I eat a variety of veggies. I eat plenty of olives, do use olive oil occasionally (though I buy from a local store and it's 100% EVOO from Italy that is never over 6 months old), and eat lots of avocado and nuts.

 

My cholesterol is a little over 200, but my LDL and triglycerides are low and my HDL is high.

 

I'd love to lower my meat intake for sure because there's that side of me that just can't believe lots of meat is really that great, just from a digestion POV, but I really don't want to up grains a bunch and wind up with inflammation from excess grain.

 

I think it's just a fine balance, but if you're eliminating the trash (which is what ALL the diets have in common), you're gonna be better off than most.

Edited February 13, 2018 by StaceyinLA

[regentrude]

On the topic of oil free salad drssing: isn't one of the functions of dressing to make the fat soluble vitamins in leafy greens and other veggies available to the body? How does that work without fat?