porn, sexual agency, education

[bibiche]

There is an interesting article in the New York Times Magazine about kids and porn and "Porn Literacy" programs being developed. Some of the stuff I read was surprising - I had no idea viewing porn was so pervasive among young kids, for example. I guess I had no idea that many kids were receiving their sex education from porn either. I had a friend who told me that when his son got to be sixteen or so he planned to have an older woman "educate" him about sex. I remember not being sure how I felt about that, but now I am inclined to think that if the choice were between that and porn he had the right idea.

 

What are your views on Porn Literacy programs? Should all schools/communities have them? If most kids are getting their information from porn, I think that the supplemental information in a porn literacy program is vital. 

 

Here's the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/magazine/teenagers-learning-online-porn-literacy-sex-education.html?action=click&contentCollection=Well&module=Trending&version=Full&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

[DawnM]

There is an interesting article in the New York Times Magazine about kids and porn and "Porn Literacy" programs being developed. Some of the stuff I read was surprising - I had no idea viewing porn was so pervasive among young kids, for example. I guess I had no idea that many kids were receiving their sex education from porn either. I had a friend who told me that when his son got to be sixteen or so he planned to have an older woman "educate" him about sex. I remember not being sure how I felt about that, but now I am inclined to think that if the choice were between that and porn he had the right idea.

 

What are your views on Porn Literacy programs? Should all schools/communities have them? If most kids are getting their information from porn, I think that the supplemental information in a porn literacy program is vital. 

 

Here's the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/magazine/teenagers-learning-online-porn-literacy-sex-education.html?action=click&contentCollection=Well&module=Trending&version=Full&region=Marginalia&pgtype=article

 

No!  Neither is the right idea.

[Katy]

I thought about making the same thread when I read that article this morning.

 

I certainly think there should be some form of education that includes information about porn and the problems with it - including how it misinforms kids.  I don't know that I like the "porn literacy" class described in the article though. It implies one must watch porn to be literate.  There were too many quotes of kids not understanding certain terms, and I just don't think that would go over well. There were also a few too many ick moments in the article.  It's going too far.  A few years back there was a TED talk about this, about the need for educational porn that showed real orgasms, loving relationships, etc. I would never show my kids that sort of thing either.  And even in a somewhat sex-positive family...  just.... no.

 

I do think that some curriculum should be developed.  Many people won't talk about this with their kids at all, and the types of things they can be exposed to are far greater than an old stack of magazines the neighbor boy found in his dad's garage when I was a kid.   They should be aware of at least:

• Women in porn are generally people who were sexually abused as children, and the industry makes money off of women whose sexual boundaries have repeatedly been violated.
• Porn is often extremely exploitative of women
• Real, loving sexual relationships are generally not like anything you would see in porn.
• Porn addiction is a real thing that changes your brain's dopamine responses. It can impair your ability to have a loving relationship with a real partner - it can cause erectile dysfunction and many other issues.
• There are sources of sex-positive porn featuring people over the age of 25 who don't have a history of sexual abuse and which isn't exploitative of women, but you have to seek it out and it's not free.

[DawnM]

 

I thought about making the same thread when I read that article this morning.

 

I certainly think there should be some form of education that includes information about porn and the problems with it - including how it misinforms kids.  I don't know that I like the "porn literacy" class described in the article though. It implies one must watch porn to be literate.  There were too many quotes of kids not understanding certain terms, and I just don't think that would go over well. There were also a few too many ick moments in the article.  It's going too far.  A few years back there was a TED talk about this, about the need for educational porn that showed real orgasms, loving relationships, etc. I would never show my kids that sort of thing either.  And even in a somewhat sex-positive family...  just.... no.

 

I do think that some curriculum should be developed.  Many people won't talk about this with their kids at all, and the types of things they can be exposed to are far greater than an old stack of magazines the neighbor boy found in his dad's garage when I was a kid.   They should be aware of at least:

• Women in porn are generally people who were sexually abused as children, and the industry makes money off of women whose sexual boundaries have repeatedly been violated.
• Porn is often extremely exploitative of women
• Real, loving sexual relationships are generally not like anything you would see in porn.
• Porn addiction is a real thing that changes your brain's dopamine responses. It can impair your ability to have a loving relationship with a real partner - it can cause erectile dysfunction and many other issues.
• There are sources of sex-positive porn featuring people over the age of 25 who don't have a history of sexual abuse and which isn't exploitative of women, but you have to seek it out and it's not free.

 

 

There is no need for a teen boy to watch anyone having sex.  None.  

 

I don't know what a sex positive family means though.

[fairfarmhand]

I saw those articles and I couldn’t finish it. It made me sad that young people are thinking that porn=sex=love.

 

I like this piece from npr.

 

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/22/565618299/lessons-in-love-for-generation-snapchat

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Word Nerd]

I can't fathom how engaging your son in a criminal act could be considered preferable to his watching porn. I'm not sure what I think of "porn literacy," but it is an interesting idea and may be needed. I saw the article yesterday and found it rather distressing that it's so prevalent.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Word Nerd

[gardenmom5]

for "p0rn 'literacy'" - probably more along the lines of a group of college kids from a decade or so ago  - who started a group to show how p0orn debases women and makes it so guys have a hard time relating to a real female.  - incidentely, it was started by a co-ed group  where they guys had used it, and realized how it was hurting them.  as well as women whose boyfriends use.

 

why not focus on what is a *healthy* relationship.

 

I think paying an older women to "teach your teen son" - is just gross.   and makes it as though it's all about the orgasm.  uh, no.

 

incidentally -  Larry hagman told how his father did that with him.  - he gave the hooker another $20 (it was the 40s/50's)- to tell his dad she did - but not.

[bibiche]

I can't fathom how engaging your son in a criminal act could be considered preferable to his watching porn. I'm not sure what I think of "porn literacy," but it is an interesting idea and may be needed. I saw the article yesterday and found it rather distressing that it's so prevalent.

 

Having sex at sixteen is not a criminal act.  And as to its being preferable or not... eh, learning about sex from porn where women are debased or learning about sex from a real human being..? I mean, neither is what I would choose for my child but if I HAD to choose...

[Farrar]

This is why I have been saying to my kids for years and years, even when they were relatively young - "Bodies on the internet aren't always real. The kinds of sex people have on the internet isn't how sex really is. It's normal to be curious and want to see what sex looks like when you get to a certain age, but the sex on the internet will give you a skewed idea of what sex is like and may make it harder for you to enjoy sex when you're even older." I have said this so many times, my 13 yos can probably recite it.

 

I think taking a group of teens who are already consumers of p*rn and educating them about what's wrong with what they're seeing is a good response. Sure, most of us would love to live in a world where they don't become early consumers of p*rn in the first place. There are ways that we should potentially make it harder and educate them early about why they shouldn't with better information. But as an after the fact response... yes. I'm all for this approach.

[Katy]

There is no need for a teen boy to watch anyone having sex.  None.  

 

I don't know what a sex positive family means though.

 

Apparently you missed the part about how I would never show that sort of thing to my kids.

 

If you don't know what sex-positive means, you should probably educate yourself on that.  Google is your friend.

[Word Nerd]

Having sex at sixteen is not a criminal act.  

 

Yes, it is, depending on the age of the adult and the jurisdiction. (ETA: And that's even assuming he isn't hiring a prostitute.)

Edited February 8, 2018 by Word Nerd

[Farrar]

I agree with others above that said that this type of thing doesn't represent what real love is all about. Just don't agree with this type of thinking.

 

But what's the type of thinking that you don't agree with? I agree - while there are all kinds of things enjoyed by people consensually - p*rn doesn't usually depict what s*x is like in a loving relationship and that's bad for kids who are forming their ideas about relationships and s*x. But the purpose of the education seems to be to help them understand that. To counteract the effects of the p*rn that they  are already consuming.

[Crimson Wife]

I think there is a problem with how s*xual encounters are portrayed in both mainstream media and adult films. How many times do we watch some guy lift up the woman's skirt, (simulate) penetrate her, and immediately she's all moaning with delight? In real life she'd be at the very least uncomfortable and possibly in pain from that sort of treatment. :scared:

 

Those of us who are adults know how unrealistically the media depicts s*x but I do worry about the impact on vulnerable young people who don't have the life experience yet to know what is realistic and what is fantasy.

[Crimson Wife]

And I realize from a pacing standpoint, the director doesn't want to show 20+ minutes of foreplay to get to the point where they couple starts having intercourse, but judicial edits from "starting to fool around" to "ride 'em cowgirl" would be good.

[bibiche]

Yes, it is, depending on the age of the adult and the jurisdiction.

 

Where we lived the age of consent was 15. 

[scrapbookbuzz]

Pretty much EVERY female depicted in p0rn has been FORCED to do it. It was not a choice.

This kind of "curriculum" is not viable and will most likely tread the edges of the law, if not break it completely.

A much better tack would be to teach teens what a healthy relationship looks like.

[nixpix5]

Porn is so pervasive. I worked with 8 and 9 year olds who could get around parent filters and we're consuming ALOT OF pornographic material. The saddest part to early consumption is how it rewires the brain. It will cause sexual disatisfaction later in life or a need for more "interesting" sexual experiences. Early consumption can reek havoc on a young person's later sexual gratification. Also, if they see deviant sexual acts early and become aroused, this hardwires those desires and crystallizes in the brain. Once this occurs it is next to impossible to change that pattern. With the onset of the Internet we will be seeing many more deviant sexual predators in upcoming generations of adults. We haven't been able to get ahead of it and parents cannot imagine their kids know about these things so they do not worry. As a counselor who has seen it all, they should worry.

Edited February 8, 2018 by nixpix5

[bibiche]

I think paying an older women to "teach your teen son" - is just gross.   and makes it as though it's all about the orgasm.  uh, no.

 

I'm not sure it matters, but to clarify, he was talking about having a friend do the um, educating. Not hiring someone. 

[nixpix5]

Pretty much EVERY female depicted in p0rn has been FORCED to do it. It was not a choice.

This kind of "curriculum" is not viable and will most likely tread the edges of the law, if not break it completely.

A much better tack would be to teach teens what a healthy relationship looks like.

Yes.

 

That is a loaded statement. Many women are coerced and many homeless males end up being forced into homosexusl porn. This is a two way street. Many women make the choice for themselves to do porn. There is a profile for women in porn though and the biggest stand out is history of abuse within the family and absent fathers.

[Liz CA]

No!  Neither is the right idea.

 

 

Exactly. There are far more choices than these two neither of which promote a healthy attitude toward sex.

 

Unfortunately, I am in a position where I see almost daily the devastating effects porn consumption has on a person's ability to maintain and grow a real life relationship. They obviously do not tell you how distorted perceptions even affect people's ability to sexually respond in a healthy manner. This is a huge issue in this generation (and likely in generations to come) because while porn in some form or another has existed since time immemorial, the advent of technology has facilitated easy, any time, anywhere access - and of course the material has escalated itself. What was porn twenty years ago is fluff today.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Liz CA

[Liz CA]

I'm not sure it matters, but to clarify, he was talking about having a friend do the um, educating. Not hiring someone. 

 

 

And you would consider this for your children?

[Farrar]

Pretty much EVERY female depicted in p0rn has been FORCED to do it. It was not a choice.

This kind of "curriculum" is not viable and will most likely tread the edges of the law, if not break it completely.

A much better tack would be to teach teens what a healthy relationship looks like.

 

One, that's not true. Yes, there are a lot of women who are forced into p*rn and there's trafficking and all of that is real and too pervasive. But there are also many women who choose to be in p*rn. There are women owned p*rn makers. It's just not true that "pretty much every" woman in p*rn is there against her will.

 

Two, I don't see how talking about something skirts the law. You could have a class about forensic science for teens and talking about murder wouldn't mean you were skirting the law. These classes do not show p*rn. Showing kids p*rn or encouraging them to watch it would be skirting if not breaking the law. These classes don't do that. I'm not sure if you read the article where it gives examples of the activities in the class - they play Jeopardy games and vote on questions and view images of clothed celebrities and have debates and discussions.

 

Three, the goal of these classes IS to teach teens about healthy relationships. To get them to question what they see and understand that relationships and s*x as depicted in p*rn is usually not healthy or realistic or consensual.

[SanDiegoMom]

I'm not sure it matters, but to clarify, he was talking about having a friend do the um, educating. Not hiring someone. 

 

 

With the US laws that would be statutory rape, consensual or not. 

[Farrar]

Did anyone even read the article or are you all just reacting to "porn class"?

[Katy]

Posting this here for those who have no idea what Farrar is talking about:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/magazine/teenagers-learning-online-porn-literacy-sex-education.html

 

 

Again, while I disagree with the content of this specific class, I do think that there is the need for something on this topic.

[Liz CA]

Porn is so pervasive. I worked with 8 and 9 year olds who could get around parent filters and we're consuming ALOT OF pornographic material. The saddest part to early consumption is how it rewires the brain. It will cause sexual disatisfaction later in life or a need for more "interesting" sexual experiences. Early consumption can reek havoc on a young person's later sexual gratification. Also, if they see deviant sexual acts early and become aroused, this hardwires those desires and crystallizes in the brain. Once this occurs it is next to impossible to change that pattern. With the onset of the Internet we will be seeing many more deviant sexual predators in upcoming generations of adults. We haven't been able to get ahead of it and parents cannot imagine their kids know about these things so they do not worry. As a counselor who has seen it all, they should worry.

 

 

This. Exactly. Read this twice!

[Liz CA]

Posting this here for those who have no idea what Farrar is talking about:  https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/magazine/teenagers-learning-online-porn-literacy-sex-education.html

 

 

Again, while I disagree with the content of this specific class, I do think that there is the need for something on this topic.

 

 

The need for "something" on this topic is early intervention by parents - much earlier than we probably think - to alert kids to how distorting and damaging porn is. This need not involve visual examples. ;)

[DawnM]

Apparently you missed the part about how I would never show that sort of thing to my kids.

 

If you don't know what sex-positive means, you should probably educate yourself on that.  Google is your friend.

 

Oh good grief.  You are being incredibly rude and you know it.  

[sassenach]

Having sex at sixteen is not a criminal act. And as to its being preferable or not... eh, learning about sex from porn where women are debased or learning about sex from a real human being..? I mean, neither is what I would choose for my child but if I HAD to choose...

Statutory rape? Or is it only considered a real crime if the underaged party is female?

[Laurie]

 

 

What are your views on Porn Literacy programs? Should all schools/communities have them? If most kids are getting their information from porn, I think that the supplemental information in a porn literacy program is vital. 

 

 

When I was in school, they brought in Resusci  Anne dolls to teach us CPR.    Maybe the schools should start buying those s3x robots to make sure the kids can practice for the real thing.   Maybe they could get a certification card to carry around in their wallets after the training, or maybe earn a letterman jacket for proficiency?     

 

I'm sick just reading that article.   No.  Schools should not be involved in that kind of literacy.   If anything, bring in some police officers to inform the students about the laws.   And I'd be in favor of sending the boys to one classroom to meet with a group of fathers who would tell them that if you do x, y, or z to our daughters we'll be coming after you with baseball bats.  And the girls would go to another classroom to meet with a group of mothers who would tell them that if a boy tries to do x, y, or z then you tell one of us and we'll alert the fathers! 

[maize]

A couple of options for parents to start teaching their kids from a young age:

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Good-Pictures-Bad-Jr-Protect/dp/0997318724/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RB1561E47ZAXA2W4QMH8

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0615927335/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1518111994&sr=8-1

[Bluegoat]

I don't think there is anything really to be gained from porn as education.  I also have a problem with it in terms of the commodification of the body and sexuality.

 

I think it is actually ok just to tell people how it works, and have them figure out the details in person.  I do think it's a good thing to have the ability to ask questions or find resources when there are sexual problems.  But really - watching people have filmed sex has no educational benefit I can even really imagine.

 

Our culture is kind of interesting in that I think people are unusually isolated from others having sex.  We have so much more room, so much more privacy, than is usual.  Even a few generations ago, most people probably had more exposure to some level of sexual activity, just because homes were small.  In some ways I wonder if this didn't lead to more reticence about it - lack of physical privacy required a creation of a kind of mental private space.

 

It's hard to imagine kids in those settings growing up totally naive about sex, but I tend to think that in many cases, their exposure was a heck of a lot more realistic than what comes out of porn, even what was attempting to be educational porn.

 

Now - so far as teaching kids about the problems of pornography, that is not a bad idea IMO.

[Hyacinth]

My first reaction was not just no but Hell No. (I assumed that the kids would be shown porn and then they'd all sit around discussing it. I'm still in the Hell No camp on that kind of class.)

 

After reading the article, I see the value of this kind of education. 

 

Here's the thing: Many kids ARE watching porn. Many kids ARE getting their ideas of what's normal and expected and pleasurable from porn. Many boys ARE being trained to see women as objects to be dominated and many girls ARE being trained to concern themselves with men's pleasure over their own.

 

For the kids whose views of sex already ARE being shaped by porn, this factual information about the porn industry, human anatomy, sexual mechanics, etc. is VITAL.

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2018 by Hyacinth

[Bluegoat]

I think there is a problem with how s*xual encounters are portrayed in both mainstream media and adult films. How many times do we watch some guy lift up the woman's skirt, (simulate) penetrate her, and immediately she's all moaning with delight? In real life she'd be at the very least uncomfortable and possibly in pain from that sort of treatment. :scared:

 

Those of us who are adults know how unrealistically the media depicts s*x but I do worry about the impact on vulnerable young people who don't have the life experience yet to know what is realistic and what is fantasy.

 

Well, I don't know.  I know that's the prevailing wisdom, and that it is certainly true for some people, but I'm not sure it's actually as universal as we're told.  I've not seen any numbers on this ever, anywhere, so I am really only basing that on anecdotal observation. (Might be a good poll question, ha ha.)

 

Anyway, I agree with your main point which is it isn't realistic in a variety of ways.  And t's not really meant to be so in a way, that may be an unrealistic expectation.

 

But if I try and think about a realistic educational sex video, I can't really imagine it being all that useful.  

[hornblower]

I'm the "porn is not ok type of feminist" so the only type of class I would like to see is one that is rooted in certain feminist philosophy about how it's the continued exploitation of women and marginalized people in society. 

[Katy]

Oh good grief.  You are being incredibly rude and you know it.  

 

No, there was genuinely no offense intended, despite my being somewhat annoyed by your implication that I show my children porn.  I genuinely think that in the context of a discussion of whether we should as a society expand sexual education to include the perils of pornography that if a parent involved doesn't understand the term "sex positive" that parent should educate themselves about it.  And all the implications of whether being sex-positive is a good idea when it comes to teaching children about sex.  And, for that matter, I include those whose religions and cultures frown on premarital sex.  You can believe that premarital  chastity is the best decision and still be sex-positive.

[Bluegoat]

My first reaction was not just no but Hell No. (I assumed that the kids would be shown porn and then they'd all sit around discussing it. I'm still in the Hell No camp on that kind of class.)

 

After reading the article, I see the value of this kind of education. 

 

Here's the thing: Many kids ARE watching porn. Many kids ARE getting their ideas of what's normal and expected and pleasurable from porn. Many boys ARE being trained to see women as objects to be dominated and many girls ARE being trained to concern themselves with men's pleasure over their own.

 

For the kids whose views of sex already ARE being shaped by porn, this factual information about the porn industry, human anatomy, sexual mechanics, etc. is VITAL.

 

I think there is a need for  - almost a kind of deprogramming - for some, maybe a lot of kids.

 

I'm not comfortable with making that part of the regular curriculum.  It doesn't look so much like a way to counteract something that shouldn't be happening, so much as "these are the kinds of things we need to know."  

 

Maybe if it had a very clearly defined negative view of porn, but even then - there are still kids who are not seeing that material.  I'm not sure they are in need of the same level of detail about what is in it.

[nixpix5]

Exactly. There are far more choices than these two neither of which promote a healthy attitude toward sex.

 

Unfortunately, I am in a position where I see almost daily the devastating effects porn consumption has on a person's ability to maintain and grow a real life relationship. They obviously do not tell you how distorted perceptions even affect people's ability to sexually respond in a healthy manner. This is a huge issue in this generation (and likely in generations to come) because while porn in some form or another has existed since time immemorial, the advent of technology has facilitated easy, any time, anywhere access - and of course the material has escalated itself. What was porn twenty years ago is fluff today.

This!

 

One thing I have seen come up in my counseling work with young people is an increase in bisexual experiences based on early exposure to same sex and threeway porn on the Internet. I am not saying that porn causes all cases of same sex attraction, not at all but I am saying that you increase the likelihood of having bisexual attraction when you consume this type of porn at a young age. This typically looks like people who want the sexual act but not the romantic relationship. The students I have worked with come in confused and think they might be gay but the thought of same sex romantic relationships for them is not appealing. They just want to have sex in a fantasy way. It is so confusing for them. Upon digging almost 100% of the time they were aroused by the myriad of porn videos on the Web that shows this type of sex at an early age.

Edited February 8, 2018 by nixpix5

[Hyacinth]

I think there is a need for  - almost a kind of deprogramming - for some, maybe a lot of kids.

 

I'm not comfortable with making that part of the regular curriculum.  It doesn't look so much like a way to counteract something that shouldn't be happening, so much as "these are the kinds of things we need to know."  

 

Maybe if it had a very clearly defined negative view of porn, but even then - there are still kids who are not seeing that material.  I'm not sure they are in need of the same level of detail about what is in it.

 

Agreed. The class in the article is described as an extracurricular type of activity. It's not required and, from what I could gather, only kids who do consume porn are participating. 

[DawnM]

No, there was genuinely no offense intended, despite my being somewhat annoyed by your implication that I show my children porn.  I genuinely think that in the context of a discussion of whether we should as a society expand sexual education to include the perils of pornography that if a parent involved doesn't understand the term "sex positive" that parent should educate themselves about it.  And all the implications of whether being sex-positive is a good idea when it comes to teaching children about sex.  And, for that matter, I include those whose religions and cultures frown on premarital sex.  You can believe that premarital  chastity is the best decision and still be sex-positive.

 

No, I was responding primarily to your "google is your friend" comment.  

 

And the "apparently you missed" implying that I can't read.  I read it. 

Edited February 8, 2018 by DawnM

[DawnM]

My first reaction was not just no but Hell No. (I assumed that the kids would be shown porn and then they'd all sit around discussing it. I'm still in the Hell No camp on that kind of class.)

 

After reading the article, I see the value of this kind of education. 

 

Here's the thing: Many kids ARE watching porn. Many kids ARE getting their ideas of what's normal and expected and pleasurable from porn. Many boys ARE being trained to see women as objects to be dominated and many girls ARE being trained to concern themselves with men's pleasure over their own.

 

For the kids whose views of sex already ARE being shaped by porn, this factual information about the porn industry, human anatomy, sexual mechanics, etc. is VITAL.

 

I read the article.  I would not feel comfortable discussing it at this length with a male student, but a female I would.  I think males need to address it with young men.

 

It is a struggle, and if the young men have healthy relationships with strong fathers, fathers should be addressing it.

[bibiche]

And you would consider this for your children?

I already said it would not be my choice, but if I *had* to choose between a kid getting an education through porn or through a caring human being, I would choose the latter.

 

 

With the US laws that would be statutory rape, consensual or not. 

My post was in response to someone who thought my friend had planned to hire a prostitute (he had not). I already said that where we lived the age of consent was 15.

[Farrar]

The need for "something" on this topic is early intervention by parents - much earlier than we probably think - to alert kids to how distorting and damaging porn is. This need not involve visual examples. ;)

 

Early interventions are absolutely the best. Unfortunately, the ship has sailed for the kids in the article. I feel like reading an article about teens who have already viewed massive amounts of p*rn and saying that the ONLY thing on the table to discuss is how to stop them from seeing it years ago is like seeing a person who already has a disease and saying, we can't discuss the best treatment for you, your parents should have vaccinated. I mean, yeah, they should've. And maybe they even did, because that's a thing too. But maybe start that campaign too but also consider how to treat the disease.

 

The class described in the article didn't have any visual examples of p*rn. The only visual examples mentioned where when the teacher brings out different CLOTHED images of celebs in different time periods and places to talk about how our conceptions of beauty change and are subjective.

 

Again, I'm just not sure what people are arguing against exactly. I don't know if anyone is responding to this specific class for kids who already view p*rn to discuss it and challenge what they think they know or if people are just reacting to "porn class" "porn education" and "porn literacy". Because this comment seems to misunderstand entirely what the content of the class is.

[Liz CA]

Early interventions are absolutely the best. Unfortunately, the ship has sailed for the kids in the article. I feel like reading an article about teens who have already viewed massive amounts of p*rn and saying that the ONLY thing on the table to discuss is how to stop them from seeing it years ago is like seeing a person who already has a disease and saying, we can't discuss the best treatment for you, your parents should have vaccinated. I mean, yeah, they should've. And maybe they even did, because that's a thing too. But maybe start that campaign too but also consider how to treat the disease.

 

The class described in the article didn't have any visual examples of p*rn. The only visual examples mentioned where when the teacher brings out different CLOTHED images of celebs in different time periods and places to talk about how our conceptions of beauty change and are subjective.

 

Again, I'm just not sure what people are arguing against exactly. I don't know if anyone is responding to this specific class for kids who already view p*rn to discuss it and challenge what they think they know or if people are just reacting to "porn class" "porn education" and "porn literacy". Because this comment seems to misunderstand entirely what the content of the class is.

 

 

My response was to another post.

As in what to do with those who have been exposed to massive amounts of porn, intervention is still the path. It takes on a different form naturally as an intervention during earlier years.

It is usually treated like an addiction and if the person is motivated, if the therapy is effective, chances are moderate to good.

[Liz CA]

I read the article.  I would not feel comfortable discussing it at this length with a male student, but a female I would.  I think males need to address it with young men.

 

It is a struggle, and if the young men have healthy relationships with strong fathers, fathers should be addressing it.

 

 

Dawn, if you are in a position to speak some truth to young males, I would encourage you to do so.

I am a female who works (in one part of my job) exclusively with males - mostly in the 18 - 40 range. Since I am not their mother, a friend or relative, they seem more comfortable discussing these things with me.

A key element is to acknowledge that wanting a sexual relationship is perfectly normal and good but porn is not what they are looking for. Many men I talk to know this after years of consumption but still don't know what the alternative is.

[Laurie]

Early interventions are absolutely the best. Unfortunately, the ship has sailed for the kids in the article. I feel like reading an article about teens who have already viewed massive amounts of p*rn and saying that the ONLY thing on the table to discuss is how to stop them from seeing it years ago is like seeing a person who already has a disease and saying, we can't discuss the best treatment for you, your parents should have vaccinated. I mean, yeah, they should've. And maybe they even did, because that's a thing too. But maybe start that campaign too but also consider how to treat the disease.

 

 

This is a quote from the article:  

"But for around two hours each week, for five weeks, the students — sophomores, juniors and seniors — take part in Porn Literacy, which aims to make them savvier, more critical consumers of porn by examining how gender, sexuality, aggression, consent, race, queer sex, relationships and body images are portrayed (or, in the case of consent, not portrayed) in porn."

 

I don't support the goal of making the students "savvier, more critical consumers of porn".    

Surveys also show that many underage students drink alcohol.   Should we also encourage underage drinking by creating classes led by a sommelier so they can be savvy in their drinking habits, too?   

 

There is a teacher mentioned in the article who uses photos of genitalia in his high school "progressive sex ed" classes (at a private school).    I think schools should be extra cautious when hiring teachers for sensitive subjects.   There are enough disturbing reports about misbehaving teachers in the news to warrant extra scrutiny of someone spreading these "progressive" methods, in my opinion.     

[bibiche]

This is a quote from the article:  

"But for around two hours each week, for five weeks, the students — sophomores, juniors and seniors — take part in Porn Literacy, which aims to make them savvier, more critical consumers of porn by examining how gender, sexuality, aggression, consent, race, queer sex, relationships and body images are portrayed (or, in the case of consent, not portrayed) in porn."

 

I don't support the goal of making the students "savvier, more critical consumers of porn".    

Surveys also show that many underage students drink alcohol.   Should we also encourage underage drinking by creating classes led by a sommelier so they can be savvy in their drinking habits, too?      

 

I think it would be more accurate to use an example of a class that instructs underage drinkers on safety eg not driving drunk, not drinking to excess, etc.

 

This class doesn't introduce porn and it doesn't promote it. It tries to get people who are already viewing it to *think* about it critically. I'd hasard a guess that when they start to think about it they might change their minds about viewing it as well.

[DawnM]

I already said it would not be my choice, but if I *had* to choose between a kid getting an education through porn or through a caring human being, I would choose the latter.

 

 

My post was in response to someone who thought my friend had planned to hire a prostitute (he had not). I already said that where we lived the age of consent was 15.

 

But you do not have to choose.  That "would you rather" game is not applicable.

[DawnM]

Dawn, if you are in a position to speak some truth to young males, I would encourage you to do so.

I am a female who works (in one part of my job) exclusively with males - mostly in the 18 - 40 range. Since I am not their mother, a friend or relative, they seem more comfortable discussing these things with me.

A key element is to acknowledge that wanting a sexual relationship is perfectly normal and good but porn is not what they are looking for. Many men I talk to know this after years of consumption but still don't know what the alternative is.

 

I do it in more of a matter of fact way.  I am not getting into porn or listening to young men talk about their fantasies....nope, nope, nope.

[Liz CA]

Re boys 'education'...imagine if we flipped it, and some mom was going to send her 16yr old dd to have sex with an older male family friend in the cause of 'education' ? Would ppl see that it's wrong then ?

 

 

Yup. Looks quite different when we turn it around, doesn't it?

Some people just cannot see the forest for the trees.