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rate of FAS higher than thought

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The goal is to enjoy the evening while keeping the pain deadened...and a night is long.  

 

My concern is the disease.  Liver issues,  esophageal cancer ...surely people can learn other ways to deaded their pain that don't involve alcohol or opiods or FAS.

 

What other ways do you envision there being for deadening pain, whether physical or emotional?  

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What other ways do you envision there being for deadening pain, whether physical or emotional?  

 

psych, cognitive help, religion, acupuncture, volunteering, cognitive therapy...you know, the things everyone else does. that don't involve bodily harm to themselves or a child.

Edited by Heigh Ho
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psych, cognitive help, religion, acupuncture, volunteering, cognitive therapy...you know, the things everyone else does. that don't involve bodily harm to themselves or a child.

 

Everybody else?

With just a very basic understanding of psychology, I can totally understand the appeal of a $5 bottle over a $170 office visit.  Seriously.

 

The people suffering from physical ailments... I don't know, man.  You think they should go get acupuncture to manage the pain from severe physical trauma?  Yikes.

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There have been women I have suspected of drinking during pregnancy because they would drink glass upon glass of white wine at parties when not pregnant. I just didn't understand how you could drink that much at gatherings and parties weekly and go cold sober during pregnancy. These women never appeared drunk but could easily go through  bottles of wine. Some of them have children with problems but most of the children seem fine to the casual observer. These were military wives who often go a long time being single parents.

Edited by Teacher Mom

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I dunno, I eat a lot of cookies and noodles and bread on a regular basis while not pregnant, but as soon as the GD kicks in I alter to a low-carb diet with no real problem.  I'm not addicted to cookies but I do eat a lot of them when not pregnant :)  I suspect there are people like that with alcohol or other drugs - they may use them regularly in some circumstances but drop them easily in others.  I smoked marijuana and occasionally cigarettes and drank 2-3 beers a couple of times a week before becoming pregnant with my first child, too, pretty regularly, but had nothing once I was pregnant.  Same with my second (alcohol, not weed or cigarettes at that point); I've never found alcohol addictive so it is easy to quit.  If you told me I could never have alcohol again I'd say oh well, no big deal, got any cookies?

 

On the other hand, I find caffeine extremely addictive and difficult to abstain from.  Once I was smoking regularly I also found that quite hard to quit - I must have quit smoking 30 different times before I finally quit for good.  I was smoking maybe a total of a cigarette a day (broken into 3-4 periods).

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Yes, I've had times in my life (much younger!) when I drank quite a bit on weekends, but nothing all week. And had no trouble stopping for whatever reason. It was a social thing, not an addiction. 

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I remember  in high school  / college i would think, why would anyone ever drink, we KNOW it destroys brain cells!!!!

 

Then I started drinking socially and I realized. Oh. People do it for pleasure. For the same reason we eat delicious foods instead of nutritionally optimal foods.   For the same reason we spend money on clothes instead of wearing the same pants / shirts combo every day.  For the same reason we make jokes in conversation instead of just conveying information to one another with minimal effort.  

 

I mean, logically, no one would EVER drink, or do a lot of other things that we all do if we were robots.

 

I haven't thought about that in years, but this thread brought it back.

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I must run in completely different circles, because I do not know anybody, woman or man, who is drinking heavily. All my female friends abstained during pregnancy.

Same for me. I live in geekville and my friends are mainly geeks. I don’t think I know any alcoholics, or even anyone that would drink while pregnant. Maybe half a glass at a wedding, but even the wine-with-dinner types skipped it while pregnant. Some complained louder than others.

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I drank very little while pregnant or nursing, and I drink very little now.  My tolerance for it - not in a I get drunk really fast sense but in a it makes my stomach feel blech sense - is very low.  I won't have even one beer or glass of wine if I'm going to drive, and that's pretty much my limit even if I'm sitting at home.

 

The whole wine culture seems really big right now, at least if you go by what people post on Facebook.  It's kind of like the coffee culture.  I don't know how much is true and how much is joking, but I read somewhere that wine sales are definitely up.

 

My old job they used to have alcohol at parties and gatherings even during the work day on a regular basis (advertising/marketing), and people used to drink quite a bit.  We had at least one admin that was fired because she was keeping booze under her desk and drinking every day to the point of impairing her work.

 

We belong to a local lake club and it has a very heavy drinking culture.  People would be drinking at the kids fishing tournament at 7 in the morning.  I don't know if anyone drinks pregnant (although it wouldn't surprise me) but it bothers me how much people drink when they have young children with them and will be driving home.  Maybe only a block or two but still.  

 

Dh's family are big drinkers and so is he, I grew up very rarely seeing people drunk.

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Wow!

 

My DH is a regular drinker...two drinks a night usually. Sometimes that is more (over many hours, if he is up later, not more at once) and he acknowledges it is a health issue and is making a mental effort to scale that back. He's not addicted, he often will go cold turkey and not drink for a while, if budget is tight. He'd rather drink no booze than cheap booze, lol. So it's decent Irish whiskey or single malt Scotch, or nothing. He drinks more than anyone else I know. 

 

My mom has a glass of wine most nights. My dad has a glass of wine or some Scotch at family parties, but not otherwise. Growing up they had a drink if we went out to a restaurant, but just one. 

 

I don't have any friends that drink excessively that I know of. The postings on Facebook about wine are mostly for humor.....even my teetotaler friend posts them in jest sometimes. (then eats cheese fries instead of having wine)

 

I post them too sometimes, like, "Oh dear lord, the baby is teething and the teen has lost his keys, mama needs wine!" but seldom do I even have any in the house. I post and then have chocolate instead :)

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There have been women I have suspected of drinking during pregnancy because they would drink glass upon glass of white wine at parties when not pregnant. I just didn't understand how you could drink that much at gatherings and parties weekly and go cold sober during pregnancy. These women never appeared drunk but could easily go through  bottles of wine. Some of them have children with problems but most of the children seem fine to the casual observer. These were military wives who often go a long time being single parents.

 

 

Yes, I've had times in my life (much younger!) when I drank quite a bit on weekends, but nothing all week. And had no trouble stopping for whatever reason. It was a social thing, not an addiction. 

 

Yeah, we're talking about alcohol, not heroin!

Which isn't to discount the advances in the study of addiction, which show that some people run much higher risks.  But to treat it as though it's impossible for anyone to manage safely is ridiculous.

 

I suspect many people's assumptions are based on moral judgment, not actual facts.

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Lots of people even who drink in a disordered way are doing it as a bad lifestyle rather than as an addiction.  If they decided to to, it wouldn't be a problem.  Lots of kids who do that i their early 20s totally give it up as they age with no problem.  It still isn't healthy at the time, but it's not the same as an addict.

 

There are even a few people like that with smoking though it is much rarer.

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The FAS diagnosis is hard to get even in kids it’s suspected in due to symptoms (foster parent and sped teacher here) because the mother must ADMIT to alcohol use during pregnancy to a dr or the evaluator..... most don’t fess up when questioned directly.

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Twelve pack in an evening?  :huh:

 

ETA: Not trying to be judgy, I just don't know anyone who can do this...and I know people who can consume. Maybe there is more of a closet thing than I was ever aware of.

 

I know a lot of people who can do it - I know far fewer who actually do.

 

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During the 6 years of marriage prior to pregnancy, I had between 0-5 glasses of wine a year. That didn't change during pregnancy.

 

I don't know anyone who drank more than that during pregnancy. I don't like drinking culture - at least not the kind around here where adults regularly drink so much that their behavior is impaired, often around children. But I don't see people drinking during pregnancy as a common thing. I did get a few horrified comments from people who thought one glass of wine during pregnancy was going to kill my baby.

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I'm really skeptical. I know like 9 kids on the spectrum in my circle of friends..... and I don't think I know that many functional alcoholics who kept on drinking through pregnancy. Like, one or two would be statistically reasonable to expect, but, c'mon.

My understanding is it is more about timing than amount although if you drink more often you are more likely to drink at the wrong time. You don't have to be an alcoholic just have those few glasses of wine when the baby needs the retinoic acid pathway (I think it is that one) for something important and it is messed up processing alcohol instead. I know one kid with FAS who actually had a alcoholic father and a getting that way mother and had severe impairment. Most cases though are diagnosed as ADHD, ASD, or below average IQ if they aren't just dismissed as having a bad family background.

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Maybe this is a stupid question: is an alcoholic able to moderate his consumption in public? I thought that once they begin to drink, they can't stop,and they cannot choose to drink just one glass?

 

 

I thought I didn't know any alcoholics until it turned out one of my employee's friends did an intervention, sent her to directly to rehab, and left me a voice mail telling me she would be out on medical leave. She was punctual, friendly, got all her work done quickly and well, and I ate lunch with her most days.We went hiking together for a few hours each month. She would drink a glass of wine at company dinners or holiday parties. It turns out at night she would lock the doors and put her car keys behind a combination lock and drink at least 2 bottles of wine every night. Her friends found out when they came over very early one morning and she had somehow left her home and fallen asleep in the gutter out front. I'm happy to report after a couple of relapses she's been sober for a decade or so.

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Maybe this is a stupid question: is an alcoholic able to moderate his consumption in public? I thought that once they begin to drink, they can't stop,and they cannot choose to drink just one glass?

 

I don't believe that it's the same for every person, and I think "moderation" and "cannot choose" have some subjective aspects to them.

 

I do have a legit, no-questions alcoholic in my family.  Coming from a very happily pro-drinkies family of otherwise non-alcoholics, this relative is often in situations where his drinking is just as moderate as everyone else's *at the time*.  (Which is going to be more than one, but the craziest thing that's going to happen is along the lines of Old Aunt Ida getting a loose tongue and making awkward comments about Deceased Uncle Bob's virility or something.)  But it's highly likely that he's had a couple in advance, and 100% guaranteed that he'll have much more after the party's over.

 

He's not really drinking in moderation as a whole, but he's managing for a few hours. He's technically choosing to limit consumption in public, but only for that short period of time.  On a daily basis, public or not, his body WILL start shaking by mid-afternoonish, when the choice becomes whether to detox or to "medicate". 

 

For whatever it's worth, it's been a progression over multiple decades. Certain elements have always been there, but "moderation" and "choice" looked different for him 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and further back, from what I'm told.  If it's been different for him at different points, it would be hard for me to believe that it can be the same for every different person.

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psych, cognitive help, religion, acupuncture, volunteering, cognitive therapy...you know, the things everyone else does. that don't involve bodily harm to themselves or a child.

 

You forgot binge watching television...

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