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rate of FAS higher than thought


hornblower
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Wonder if that has to do with SAD and the lack of sunlight, and self medicating?

 

While dealing with my SAD I did find myself wanting alcohol more than usual. I didn't have much, as I never think to buy it lol. But I wanted it. 

 

I'd guess it has more to do with isolation. Consider that for part of the year much of Alaska gets 20 hours of sunlight per day. 

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Alaska also has a very high Native population and those are often at higher risk for alcohol addition. Add in isolation, poverty,extreme weather, lack of sunshine for some months of the year, etc and the Alaskan population is at risk. FAS is at higher rates in many Native communities.

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I live in wine country and its pretty common to drink a little while pregnant.  I did, none in the first trimester and than a glass on special occasions maybe 3 or 4 glasses total.  My friends will all often have a half a glass while out for birthdays or whatever.  I am sure their is a higher rate here just because it is common to see pregnant women sipping.  For everyone who can handle that their is probably one taking it to far.

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During some parts of the first trimester the fetus is especially vulnerable to alcohol.  When brain cells are developing as little as two drinks per day can cause issues.  Unless the woman is especially attuned to her body and its cycles, the damage may be done before she even realizes she is pregnant.   That is one of the reasons why woman who are trying to become pregnant are advised to avoid alcohol.

 

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I know moms who drink daily before finding out they were pregnant, they won’t trying to conceive but not preventing either. Their children are not suffering from FAS though as far as we know, their kids are around my DS13’s age. My childhood home is in a drug gang neighborhood so I know babies born with birth defects and suffering cold turkey due to moms being drug addicts.

While the babies do suffer, they’re not forced to go cold turkey! They’ll be in the hospital for months on morphine and whatever is needed to ease their symptoms.

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My understanding is that the facial deformities are generally caused by first trimester drinking and the mental retardation is caused by second and third trimester drinking. You can quite easily have retardation without facial deformities.

 

I have an adopted son (just shy of 4yo) from my sister that is showing signs of developmental delays. He's yet undiagnosed (I haven't really been pursuing it) but I'm pretty sure that he could be labeled as being on the autism spectrum. My sister swears up and down that she didn't drink after 12 weeks when she decided not to abort him but I really don't trust her. He doesn't have any of the facial deformities but I'm still suspicious. I just don't know. This situation makes me wonder how many people seek out an autism diagnosis because it's a socially acceptable label that clears their name.

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Most of the women in my circles did not drink while pregnant.

 

However, the mommy culture of drinking is definitely something I feel.  I am on a 4000 member local mom facebook group.  There was recently a thread on drinking, and most of the responders said that they drink 2-4 drinks, 4-6 nights a week.  Y'all.  That's like 4 bottles of wine a week.  That's a lot.  And like I said, that was average.  Some people were more, some less, but that is average for where I live.

 

I definitely know of two functional alcoholics in my life.  One is a friend.  One is my sister-in-law, whose life is currently imploding.  Both are just super sad cases right now. 

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I don't know anyone personally who was drinking while pregnant.  I do see so many events advertised these days for young people that involve alcohol.  Way more than was in my generation.  But a lot of people in my generation drank too, and drank a lot.  It just wasn't advertised.  

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Has anyone else ever wondered if Simone Biles has FAE? She has ADD, but even before I found that out, I wondered because her facial features, while probably not enough to diagnose her, are a little FAE-like. She is beautiful and amazing, but it would not be a stretch to think that her mother drank while pregnant with her.

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Most of the women in my circles did not drink while pregnant.

 

However, the mommy culture of drinking is definitely something I feel.  I am on a 4000 member local mom facebook group.  There was recently a thread on drinking, and most of the responders said that they drink 2-4 drinks, 4-6 nights a week.  Y'all.  That's like 4 bottles of wine a week.  That's a lot.  And like I said, that was average.  Some people were more, some less, but that is average for where I live.

 

I definitely know of two functional alcoholics in my life.  One is a friend.  One is my sister-in-law, whose life is currently imploding.  Both are just super sad cases right now. 

 

I don't know if I'd consider 4 bottles a week a lot, especially if they were drinking them with dinner.  Four drinks a night does seem a lot, but something like 2 glasses with food most nights seems pretty unremarkable to me - if I open a bottle I'll have one while a cook and one with food, or a similar amount if it's a beer meal.  I can't afford that four times a week, but if money was no object I might do it.

 

I do find some of the stuff I see posted online about wine drinking as a way of life/coping of odd - I don'ts the same thing for beer really, or for other kinds of drinks, and I've wondered why it is wine is treated that way.

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Most of my friends abstained while knowingly pregnant -- except one (who is smart, strong and respectable) who said that people who really have studied FAS believe very occasional small servings are harmless. People were concerned. She also said that she was unsure about that advice, and would probably abstain anyways -- better safe than sorry. I don't know what she eventually decided.

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, and most of the responders said that they drink 2-4 drinks, 4-6 nights a week.  Y'all.  That's like 4 bottles of wine a week.  That's a lot.  And like I said, that was average.  Some people were more, some less, but that is average for where I live.

 

People might not realize that qualifies as heavy drinking 

 

For women, the border is 7 drinks / week. This report indicates 8-24 which falls well into heavy/problem drinking.

 

(And that's ignoring the issue of whether the wine glass is really 5 fl oz  and the undercounting of volumes...) 

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None of my friends drank while pregnant. No alcohol, no caffeine.

 

I do know of women who probably drank while pregnant though - a wife of someone DH works with, she is an alcoholic in and out of rehab. I’m sure she did. Another woman whose social circles occasionally intersected with ours a few years ago. She’s a Pinterest mommy wine type. I have a hard time imagining that she didn’t drink, though I don’t know for sure.

 

I think this is a problem for adopted kids, often, too, and I’m not sure - other than self reporting - if there are ways to find out how much a birthmom drank during pregnancy, in the absence of obvious signs. I definitely think it’s an issue.

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Moderate drinking is one per day for women, up to two for men.  I would guess that should be based on size rather than gender.

 

What I see most is binge drinking on the weekend.  One every half hour for the evening until visibly tipsy. Actually I should say, I used to see since I dropped that circle.   Heavy drinking I've seen defined as binging five or more times a month, but really, that sounds politically based.  All I can say is there are people who cannot do anything but binge or refrain, they have no in between. My life choice is not to let them serve as entertainment, forcing me to be audience.  I am in a dinner party circle instead.

 

I don't think I'd classify drinking until tipsy as "binge drinking."

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Most of my friends abstained while knowingly pregnant -- except one (who is smart, strong and respectable) who said that people who really have studied FAS believe very occasional small servings are harmless. People were concerned. She also said that she was unsure about that advice, and would probably abstain anyways -- better safe than sorry. I don't know what she eventually decided.

 

I don't get this--why is anyone so attached to her wine or whatever that this is even a question one has to ponder?  It's not like a pregnant woman is being asked to give up oxygen.  It's alcohol.  If you are so attached to drinking that this is even a "probably," you're too attached to drinking.

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I don't think I'd classify drinking until tipsy as "binge drinking."

 

No, me neither.

 

I think binge drinking is really bad.  And I am a bit worried that it seems to be very prevalent among young people now - this sense that as long as you are sensible during the week, you can go out and get hammered and that is what going out is all about.

 

Probably drinking until tipsy every night is not great either.

 

I am trying to wrap my head around wine with dinner every night being bad because it goes over some level on a chart, and I can't quite get there.

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I don't get this--why is anyone so attached to her wine or whatever that this is even a question one has to ponder?  It's not like a pregnant woman is being asked to give up oxygen.  It's alcohol.  If you are so attached to drinking that this is even a "probably," you're too attached to drinking.

 

Maybe they don't want to live with an attitude that is so fearful, and maybe even puritan?

 

The same logic now has pregnant women abstaining from salami, cheese, sushi, honey, etc.   One begins to wonder if there is something wrong with the premise.

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Maybe they don't want to live with an attitude that is so fearful, and maybe even puritan?

 

The same logic now has pregnant women abstaining from salami, cheese, sushi, honey, etc.   One begins to wonder if there is something wrong with the premise.

 

:iagree:  I was shocked at the difference in recommendations from when I was pregnant with my older dd nine years ago compared to when I was pregnant with my younger dd last year. Now they want you to give up just about everything. I even saw recommendations last year that pregnant women shouldn't have any fresh produce whatsoever because of listeria and salmonella. At that point, I was pretty much like, "Yeah, bite me, medical establishment." I didn't drink, obviously, but I didn't give up vegetables or sushi or coffee. ;) 

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I don't think I'd classify drinking until tipsy as "binge drinking."

 

 

The definition researchers use has nothing to do with being tipsy (partly because alcohol abusers develop resistance and can tolerate huge amounts of alcohol without the appearance of being impaired). 

 

Binge drinking for women is 4 drinks in approx 2 hours or on the same occasion.. 

 

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/moderate-binge-drinking

 

 

"Binge Drinking:

  • NIAAA defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking that brings blood alcohol concentration (BAC) levels to 0.08 g/dL. This typically occurs after 4 drinks for women and 5 drinks for men—in about 2 hours.

     

  • The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), which conducts the annual National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), defines binge drinking as 5 or more alcoholic drinks for males or 4 or more alcoholic drinks for females on the same occasion (i.e., at the same time or within a couple of hours of each other) on at least 1 day in the past month.
Edited by hornblower
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Maybe they don't want to live with an attitude that is so fearful, and maybe even puritan?

 

The same logic now has pregnant women abstaining from salami, cheese, sushi, honey, etc.   One begins to wonder if there is something wrong with the premise.

 

Be we KNOW alcohol is dangerous.  Salami, cheese, sushi, etc., are not intrinsically harmful at any level.  You might contract salmonella (or whatever) from them, but the chances of doing so are pretty remote, and the chance of its harming the unborn child is even more remote.  Plus, these are foods that provide nutritional value; alcohol provides a buzz, nothing more, and is known to be harmful at certain levels.  And there is no known safe level of alcohol consumption during pregnancy.  I don't get why giving up wine with dinner is causing any pregnant woman angst.      

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I don't get this--why is anyone so attached to her wine or whatever that this is even a question one has to ponder?  It's not like a pregnant woman is being asked to give up oxygen.  It's alcohol.  If you are so attached to drinking that this is even a "probably," you're too attached to drinking.

 

I am with you on that.  If you can't comprehend giving it up, you are addicted.   

 

The thing on the lack of studies is that you can't really do a controlled study on something that is likely to harm the baby.   Can you imagine that?   "Here, we think this might harm your baby, so have one of them a day and then we will see how your baby turns out."   

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FAS is almost certainly higher than reported.  It looks a lot like autism, ADHD, anxiety in some cases so I think often it is misdiagnosed.  It also involves self-reporting by the bio mother, and drinking during pregnancy is often under-reported.  Many medical practitioners don't study much about FAS/FAE in medical school, and what they have been told often is about specific facial features for diagnosis.  A majority of people with FAS/FAE don't actually have the facial features that have been a large part of being diagnosed.  

 

We live with FAS/FAE in our family.  It is very difficult.

 

I had no idea! For some reason I thought that everyone with FAS had the facial features and that was the big signifier. This is good to know.

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  And there is no known safe level of alcohol consumption during pregnancy.  I don't get why giving up wine with dinner is causing any pregnant woman angst.      

 

Just want to carry on from this and point out that actually, there is no known safe level of alcohol consumption - period. Pregnant or not. 

 

From WHO Europe: 

 

How can I drink alcohol safely?

This might not be the answer people want to hear, but there is no safe level for drinking alcohol.

Of course there is lower-risk drinking, but WHO does not set particular limits, because the evidence shows that the ideal situation for health is to not drink at all. Alcohol is closely related to around 60 different diagnoses and for almost all there is a close dose–response relationship, so the more you drink, the higher your risk of disease. Less is better."

 

 

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  I don't get why giving up wine with dinner is causing any pregnant woman angst.      

 

 

It's giving them angst probably because they're a substance abuser and they don't recognize it & neither do the people around them.

 

I think that's kind of my point. People don't know what alcohol abuse looks like, don't see it in their friends, and don't want to admit it of themselves. 

 

In some circles our culture is normalizing a pretty high level of alcohol consumption for women. Hey, it's book club, it's mommy night, it's curriculum swap - bring on the wine & hard lemonades! And of course I have one while I cook dinner. And another one while I eat. And maybe just half a glass more while I clean up the kitchen. That's normal because everyone is doing it! 

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I am with you on that.  If you can't comprehend giving it up, you are addicted.   

 

The thing on the lack of studies is that you can't really do a controlled study on something that is likely to harm the baby.   Can you imagine that?   "Here, we think this might harm your baby, so have one of them a day and then we will see how your baby turns out."   

 

I have maybe 5-6 drinks a year. I don't think that counts as addicted by any stretch. And yet I do have a half serving or so of alcohol a few times each pregnancy. Because there is plenty of medical advice supporting that as safe. I think choosing to drive in a car is way riskier. Neither are necessary. I could have my groceries delivered, etc. But quality of life factors in here. I like driving places and sometimes I like a sip of wine or beer. 

 

Edited to add: Actually, thinking about it, I didn't drink at all after I found out I was pregnant with my first. He's my only non neurotypical one. But I did drink the most BEFORE finding out I was pregnant with him....I vividly remember going to a holiday event and having a few beers that night, right before I found out I was pregnant. With the others I had already cut way back, so if I drank at all before finding out I was pregnant, it wasn't more than a single drink I'm sure. (nothing religious or whatever, just busy and alcohol is too many calories, lol)

Edited by ktgrok
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Despite government campaigns, there are definitely scientifically backed reasons to consider drinking moderately - alcohol, as little as one serving a day - relaxes blood vessels, thins the blood, and reduces infections. And that's leaving the antioxidants in red wine out of the equation entirely. Now plenty of alcoholics use these reasons as an excuse to drink more, and if you ask that's why governments try to pretend that there are no benefits.  But the truth is there are.

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When alcohol breaks down into acetaldehyde, the acetaldehyde causes DNA damage in stem cells that is difficult to repair. The DNA blueprint changes which means new cells can be changed for the worse, too. Additionally, some people lack enzymes to help break down the acetaldehyde so it stays in their body even longer.

 

During pregnancy, personally I wouldn’t/didn’t drink. Some Duke articles:

 

https://sites.duke.edu/apep/module-5-alcohol-and-babies/content-any-amount-of-alcohol-during-pregnancy-can-result-in-fasd/

https://sites.duke.edu/apep/module-5-alcohol-and-babies/content-how-does-alcohol-get-to-the-fetus/

https://sites.duke.edu/apep/module-5-alcohol-and-babies/content-cognitive-and-behavioral-problems-resulting-from-fetal-alcohol-exposure-to-sensitive-brain-regions/

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Despite government campaigns, there are definitely scientifically backed reasons to consider drinking moderately - alcohol, as little as one serving a day - relaxes blood vessels, thins the blood, and reduces infections. And that's leaving the antioxidants in red wine out of the equation entirely. Now plenty of alcoholics use these reasons as an excuse to drink more, and if you ask that's why governments try to pretend that there are no benefits.  But the truth is there are.

 

 I've spoken with cardiologists and they acknowledge the benefits. What they say though is that  it's far from clear if the benefits outweigh the risks for most people & so the ones I spoke to said they don't tell people who have an occasional glass of red wine to stop, but they would not advise a non drinker to start. 

 

fwiw, I think marijuana has a more favourable risk / benefit profile (not specifically for heart health but just generally but few people seem ok with mom toking up in the evening...) 

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I did not drink once I knew I was pregnant and neither did anyone else I knew.  But our long ago ancestors sure did because drinking was the only way to have safe drinks a long time ago.  Somehow we had plenty of smart people then too so I don;t really know what is the case.  I know that in England, they were recommending small amounts of alcohol at the same time in the US they were saying none at all.  I think similar to the authorities not wanting to say that some alcohol is good for you, they do not want to say any alcohol is good during pregnancy due to the idiots who always think a little is good, a lot is better. 

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As stated above, the definition of binging its an accepted one via the NIH and other such organizations.  My heavy drinking circle rejects the definition too...gosh, they drink most Fridays and every Saturday, and it takes at least 4 in 2 hrs to get tipsy now as they're large people and have trained their livers for max enzyme excretion.  That's the warm up for the evening. To them, binging is what the person who is secretive does -- sneaks several out of sight, rapidly.  Its not the 12 pack in an evening, a glass wine every half hour etc and its certainly not getting hammered every time. 

 

As far a toking...I don't want the smell in my house.. they can toke elsewhere.  I want clean air.

 

Twelve pack in an evening?  :huh:

 

ETA: Not trying to be judgy, I just don't know anyone who can do this...and I know people who can consume. Maybe there is more of a closet thing than I was ever aware of.

Edited by Georgiana Daniels
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Twelve pack in an evening? :huh:

 

ETA: Not trying to be judgy, I just don't know anyone who can do this...and I know people who can consume. Maybe there is more of a closet thing than I was ever aware of.

I know two guys who drank this much daily. One was a Lt. Colonel in the Army and another was a bright computer scientist who became addicted to crack. He dealt with both problems and is sober now. Yeah, they hide it but eventually it takes a toll and it’s not so easy to hide the effects. Edited by MBM
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Twelve pack in an evening?  :huh:

 

ETA: Not trying to be judgy, I just don't know anyone who can do this...and I know people who can consume. Maybe there is more of a closet thing than I was ever aware of.

I have/had four family members that drink at least that much. One of them died of alcoholism. Also know quite a few people outside my family who drink that heavily. It's not that uncommon where I live (rural midwest).

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Be we KNOW alcohol is dangerous.  Salami, cheese, sushi, etc., are not intrinsically harmful at any level.  You might contract salmonella (or whatever) from them, but the chances of doing so are pretty remote, and the chance of its harming the unborn child is even more remote.  Plus, these are foods that provide nutritional value; alcohol provides a buzz, nothing more, and is known to be harmful at certain levels.  And there is no known safe level of alcohol consumption during pregnancy.  I don't get why giving up wine with dinner is causing any pregnant woman angst.      

 

 

Well, it isn't true that there is no nutritional value.  In previous times alcoholic beverages were a dietary staple mainly for the calories and nutrients, and because it was a very effective way to preserve those agricultural products.

 

Many people would dispute the idea that we know alcohol is always damaging.   That's the fundamental reason they disagree with your view.

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Well, it isn't true that there is no nutritional value.  In previous times alcoholic beverages were a dietary staple mainly for the calories and nutrients, and because it was a very effective way to preserve those agricultural products.

 

Many people would dispute the idea that we know alcohol is always damaging.   That's the fundamental reason they disagree with your view.

 

Okay, I'll grant you that one:  if you are a pregnant woman on a farm and have no other way to preserve your agricultural products or to consume sufficient calories and nutrients, you can have at that bucket of beer.  No judgment from me; you just rock on.

 

But we do know that alcohol is dangerous during pregnancy.  It seems that the jury is out on the amount and timing, but it IS dangerous.  Unless you are the woman on the farm whose barley crop is going to waste unless she drinks it in the form of beer, alcohol provides no benefit during pregnancy.

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Okay, I'll grant you that one:  if you are a pregnant woman on a farm and have no other way to preserve your agricultural products or to consume sufficient calories and nutrients, you can have at that bucket of beer.  No judgment from me; you just rock on.

 

But we do know that alcohol is dangerous during pregnancy.  It seems that the jury is out on the amount and timing, but it IS dangerous.  Unless you are the woman on the farm whose barley crop is going to waste unless she drinks it in the form of beer, alcohol provides no benefit during pregnancy.

 

It's the nuance that is the point of disagreement.  It can be dangerous - often, it isn't.  And while no particular limit has been established it seems to have to do with how much people drink.  That does not mean that there is no limit or amount, it means that it is difficult to define it in a scientific way.  Many people are quite comfortable with the idea that small amounts are safe and so they don't feel the need to justify it other than in terms of the fact that they enjoy it.  

 

The idea that they are somehow recklessly disregarding something that they know will cause damage over some silly preference is hard to understand - because that isn't the thinking at all.

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I can't even imagine how a human fits over a gallon of fuzzy beer inside of them in one night. I would think a serious alcoholic would prefer lower volume shortcuts.

 

That requires admitting one is an alcoholic. For many people sticking to beer, wine and coolers means that they can convince themselves they have 'no problem' 

 

but yeah, these people must be peeing constantly. Otoh, seeing young men come out of pubs peeing all over the backlanes makes me think that this might not be so farfetched...

 

 

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I know two guys who drank this much daily. One was a Lt. Colonel in the Army and another was a bright computer scientist who became addicted to crack. He dealt with both problems and is sober now. Yeah, they hide it but eventually it takes a toll and it’s not so easy to hide the effects.

 

So glad that the one found sobriety! Sounds like a long road but worth it.

 

 

I have/had four family members that drink at least that much. One of them died of alcoholism. Also know quite a few people outside my family who drink that heavily. It's not that uncommon where I live (rural midwest).

 

That is so, so sad. This thread has been eye opening, and I don't consider myself the least bit sheltered.

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The goal is to enjoy the evening while keeping the pain deadened...and a night is long.  

 

My concern is the disease.  Liver issues,  esophageal cancer ...surely people can learn other ways to deaded their pain that don't involve alcohol or opiods or FAS.

 

What other ways do you envision there being for deadening pain, whether physical or emotional?  

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psych, cognitive help, religion, acupuncture, volunteering, cognitive therapy...you know, the things everyone else does. that don't involve bodily harm to themselves or a child.

 

Everybody else?

With just a very basic understanding of psychology, I can totally understand the appeal of a $5 bottle over a $170 office visit.  Seriously.

 

The people suffering from physical ailments... I don't know, man.  You think they should go get acupuncture to manage the pain from severe physical trauma?  Yikes.

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There have been women I have suspected of drinking during pregnancy because they would drink glass upon glass of white wine at parties when not pregnant. I just didn't understand how you could drink that much at gatherings and parties weekly and go cold sober during pregnancy. These women never appeared drunk but could easily go through  bottles of wine. Some of them have children with problems but most of the children seem fine to the casual observer. These were military wives who often go a long time being single parents.

Edited by Teacher Mom
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I dunno, I eat a lot of cookies and noodles and bread on a regular basis while not pregnant, but as soon as the GD kicks in I alter to a low-carb diet with no real problem.  I'm not addicted to cookies but I do eat a lot of them when not pregnant :)  I suspect there are people like that with alcohol or other drugs - they may use them regularly in some circumstances but drop them easily in others.  I smoked marijuana and occasionally cigarettes and drank 2-3 beers a couple of times a week before becoming pregnant with my first child, too, pretty regularly, but had nothing once I was pregnant.  Same with my second (alcohol, not weed or cigarettes at that point); I've never found alcohol addictive so it is easy to quit.  If you told me I could never have alcohol again I'd say oh well, no big deal, got any cookies?

 

On the other hand, I find caffeine extremely addictive and difficult to abstain from.  Once I was smoking regularly I also found that quite hard to quit - I must have quit smoking 30 different times before I finally quit for good.  I was smoking maybe a total of a cigarette a day (broken into 3-4 periods).

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I remember  in high school  / college i would think, why would anyone ever drink, we KNOW it destroys brain cells!!!!

 

Then I started drinking socially and I realized. Oh. People do it for pleasure. For the same reason we eat delicious foods instead of nutritionally optimal foods.   For the same reason we spend money on clothes instead of wearing the same pants / shirts combo every day.  For the same reason we make jokes in conversation instead of just conveying information to one another with minimal effort.  

 

I mean, logically, no one would EVER drink, or do a lot of other things that we all do if we were robots.

 

I haven't thought about that in years, but this thread brought it back.

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I must run in completely different circles, because I do not know anybody, woman or man, who is drinking heavily. All my female friends abstained during pregnancy.

Same for me. I live in geekville and my friends are mainly geeks. I don’t think I know any alcoholics, or even anyone that would drink while pregnant. Maybe half a glass at a wedding, but even the wine-with-dinner types skipped it while pregnant. Some complained louder than others.

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I drank very little while pregnant or nursing, and I drink very little now.  My tolerance for it - not in a I get drunk really fast sense but in a it makes my stomach feel blech sense - is very low.  I won't have even one beer or glass of wine if I'm going to drive, and that's pretty much my limit even if I'm sitting at home.

 

The whole wine culture seems really big right now, at least if you go by what people post on Facebook.  It's kind of like the coffee culture.  I don't know how much is true and how much is joking, but I read somewhere that wine sales are definitely up.

 

My old job they used to have alcohol at parties and gatherings even during the work day on a regular basis (advertising/marketing), and people used to drink quite a bit.  We had at least one admin that was fired because she was keeping booze under her desk and drinking every day to the point of impairing her work.

 

We belong to a local lake club and it has a very heavy drinking culture.  People would be drinking at the kids fishing tournament at 7 in the morning.  I don't know if anyone drinks pregnant (although it wouldn't surprise me) but it bothers me how much people drink when they have young children with them and will be driving home.  Maybe only a block or two but still.  

 

Dh's family are big drinkers and so is he, I grew up very rarely seeing people drunk.

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Wow!

 

My DH is a regular drinker...two drinks a night usually. Sometimes that is more (over many hours, if he is up later, not more at once) and he acknowledges it is a health issue and is making a mental effort to scale that back. He's not addicted, he often will go cold turkey and not drink for a while, if budget is tight. He'd rather drink no booze than cheap booze, lol. So it's decent Irish whiskey or single malt Scotch, or nothing. He drinks more than anyone else I know. 

 

My mom has a glass of wine most nights. My dad has a glass of wine or some Scotch at family parties, but not otherwise. Growing up they had a drink if we went out to a restaurant, but just one. 

 

I don't have any friends that drink excessively that I know of. The postings on Facebook about wine are mostly for humor.....even my teetotaler friend posts them in jest sometimes. (then eats cheese fries instead of having wine)

 

I post them too sometimes, like, "Oh dear lord, the baby is teething and the teen has lost his keys, mama needs wine!" but seldom do I even have any in the house. I post and then have chocolate instead :)

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