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This is Us- Jack's Death q- spoilers inside, of course.


Annie G
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Yes, I too thought his death was way overhyped. And I think he’s a pretty good dad, but Best Ever?Eh. I think he’s a pretty realistic good dad.

 

I do think that, given a pretty good dad (husband, brother, grandmother, niece, teacher, etc.), most people view them as Best Ever.  I've seen enough memorial posts on FB over the last near-decade to feel confident in that concept.

 

To me, Jack's status is heightened because he was himself, not someone trying to act like the Best Dad Ever.  His motivation, even when screwing up, always seems genuine.

 

(Says someone who often finds herself doing certain things because that's what I'm "supposed to" do. Maybe more like Rebecca.)

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I just don't see how 20 years later Miguel leaves and allows her space to do all that. I mean if you aren't over it in 20 years, I wouldn't want to play 2nd fiddle to a memory. 

 

I really wish that Toby had told Kate that she doesn't beat herself up just one day a year, but that she's done it every day of her life for 20 years. 

 

 

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I just don't see how 20 years later Miguel leaves and allows her space to do all that. I mean if you aren't over it in 20 years, I wouldn't want to play 2nd fiddle to a memory. 

 

I really wish that Toby had told Kate that she doesn't beat herself up just one day a year, but that she's done it every day of her life for 20 years. 

 

 

To be fair, even if it is a bit strange, I'm sure Miguel has his own feelings to process.  He loved Jack, too. He continues to protect Jack's memory and image.  His conversation with the other "outsiders" showed as much.  He has his own baggage with marrying his best friend's wife.

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To be fair, even if it is a bit strange, I'm sure Miguel has his own feelings to process.  He loved Jack, too. He continues to protect Jack's memory and image.  His conversation with the other "outsiders" showed as much.  He has his own baggage with marrying his best friend's wife.

 

He did, but I still think it cannot be healthy that these people are supposed to have done these things 20 years later. Jack would not want them to do that. 

 

My sister has lost her husband and her only son in the last 3 years. She has tried going to grief groups, and that is what she finds. People are coming to them so they can relive their grief over and over and over. And the leaders say, "It's okay." One video a group showed had the leaders still buying Christmas gifts for their dead daughter and opening them up and reacting as she would have. How can that be healthy? Yet, this program is heralded as the ultimate in grief support and counseling and used in many places.

 

She wants to be able to move past her grief, not to wallow in it forever. And I can't blame her. Who wants to live like that? 

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I really wish that Toby had told Kate that she doesn't beat herself up just one day a year, but that she's done it every day of her life for 20 years.

That was hardly the time to tell Kate that little bit of obviousness. She would not have been receptive to hearing it. Toby is written smart enough not to do that. In real life he would have said it and that would damage their relationship.

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That was hardly the time to tell Kate that little bit of obviousness. She would not have been receptive to hearing it. Toby is written smart enough not to do that. In real life he would have said it and that would damage their relationship.

 

I think it could have been said in a loving and compassionate way, which I would have expected him to do. Sometimes the way things are said can make all the difference. 

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Different people grieve differently, though, and a wide continuum can be healthy.

 

A dear friend lost her first baby 20 years ago.  They still buy an ornament each Christmas to commemorate his life, and they release balloons and visit the cemetery each year on the anniversary of his death.  They are definitely not stuck in grief, and she has handled it better and better over the years.  They are a genuinely healthy family.  But they still have those rituals that they do to remember.  

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Random thoughts after reading what was posted after I went to bed last night:

 

Miguel confuses me. His character has no personality. He's just kind of 'there'. He lost his friend, too.  I hope they develop his character in the upcoming episodes. 

 

Rebecca (and when he was alive, Jack, too) doesn't seem to grieve much over the baby they lost. Sure, they occasionally mention it, but considering how they grieve Jack, I would have thought that after Jack passed away Rebecca would also start to feel the baby's loss more.  But like others have said, grief is different for everyone. 

 

I think the Tess reveal is a one time thing.  I'm not sure they want to have a third major time period. We already have when the kids are young enough for Jack to still be alive, and that timeline isn't going away.  But I thought the Tess conversation was brilliant- she loves that they foster but she's still concerned about where she fits in because her dad seems to want a new life.  

 

As for Jack being The Best Dad...I totally get that his family would feel that way. But I see so many people on Facebook and stuff talking about how they want their husband to be a dad like Jack.  T shirts that say "Love me like Jack loves Rebecca" or a pic of Jack with 'father of the year'. Sure, they're kidding....sort of.  

 

I hope this doesn't come out the wrong way....but I'm looking forward to seeing how this show evolves now that Jack's death has been revealed.  I felt like there were so many episodes that danced around it and while I liked the mystery at first, it was getting tiresome. Like Kate talking to Toby about the dog. I'd like a dog but you know.....(just say it!)    So I'm glad it's out in the open and the writers can move forward- in the present time. Because the previous 20 years don't seem to have much to see since nobody has successfully dealt with the grief!

 

 

 

Edited by Annie G
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Be as critical as you want of Jack.

 

I think people are missing the entire point of why the show is amazing.

 

This is just a normal family living their extraordinarily ordinary lives.

 

The people being so mean about grief got me off on a rant I deleted. Because tmi.

 

Counseling? Are you kidding me? Like that’s just so easy and available. A good clinician therapist capable of doing EMDR is upwards of $150 for every 45 minutes. There’s a 2 month wait for one here. And it’s not covered by insurance (which we don’t have anyways) and it for sure wasn’t cheaper and more available a decade plus ago. And that isn’t even factoring being ready to handle the frustration and stress of finding a decent counselor and going through therapy. Some people just aren’t going to be ready for that when everyone else has already moved on without them.

 

Who are these people claiming they know what dealt with grief looks like for everyone else and when people should have done it already?

 

We are all broken people trying to hobble through life as best we can. Sorry if it isn’t pretty and tidy enough for those who think they are done and dealt better.

 

Those posts blew me away. Don’t make the mistake of thinking Randal has dealt with grief better just because his grief is more pleasant for others to deal with. He is every bit as effed up as the others. Possibly more so in some ways.

 

Jack isn’t the best ever because he was perfect, he obviously wasn’t.

 

Jack is the best ever *to his wife and kids* bc he didn’t let his imperfections limit his devotion for them.

 

I think Rebecca gets short changed too. Jack seems to eclipse her to everyone except Miguel and Jack.

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I wondered about Kyle too. (My SIL, who lost her full term baby a decade ago, shared on FB the clip with Gerald McRaney talking about the sourest of life’s lemons, and that got me intrigued about the show, ironically when I was pregnant with a baby I wouldn’t bring home either. I couldn’t watch for a while after This Is Us became This Is Me.) I recall that they mentioned him in a couple of early shows, and I do remember Rebecca talking about him when Kate lost her baby, and that was great. I think it would be so normal for them to show Rebecca, at the kids’ graduation day, for instance, picturing Kyle, wondering if he’d look like Kevin, or mourning the grand babies she’ll never have from Kyle when Tess was born, or hesitating when someone asks her how many kids she has, thinking about him not just in the baby context but every. day. for. the. rest. of. her. life.

 

(Also, and please don’t laugh. Even though TIU is fiction, it is comforting to see Jack and Rebecca continuing on after losing a child, to see them still in love, still functioning, able to smile and laugh and enjoy life. It gives hope.)

 

On a happier note, did anyone else watch Sterling K. Brown in Army Wives and feel like he’s a very similar character here? Intellectual, deeply in love with his wife and children, same easy smile but definitely not perfect. Even in his hard scenes, I feel like he’s fun to watch.

Edited by happypamama
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Murphy, I'm sorry if my comments on grief upset you. 

 

So you know, I'm no stranger to grief. I've experienced a lot of it over the last year 7 years. I've lost my grandmother, my mother, my BIL, my FIL, my husband's grandfather (I loved his as much as my own grandparents), and my special needs nephew. I was very close to all these people and loved them dearly. 

 

I just know that my own grief in these situations has shown me that I don't want my loved ones to grieve in a life-crippling, painful way for years and years to come, and I know that those who have gone before don't want that for me, either. 

 

I do understand that people need to grieve in their own way, and I understand having rituals to remember. 

 

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Murphy, I'm sorry if my comments on grief upset you. 

 

So you know, I'm no stranger to grief. I've experienced a lot of it over the last year 7 years. I've lost my grandmother, my mother, my BIL, my FIL, my husband's grandfather (I loved his as much as my own grandparents), and my special needs nephew. I was very close to all these people and loved them dearly. 

 

I just know that my own grief in these situations has shown me that I don't want my loved ones to grieve in a life-crippling, painful way for years and years to come, and I know that those who have gone before don't want that for me, either. 

 

I do understand that people need to grieve in their own way, and I understand having rituals to remember. 

 

To be fair, it isn't really about what the deceased would want (regarding how others feel about their death). I own my emotions and what I should and shouldn't feel isn't (shouldn't be) dictated by somebody who isn't even here to walk through the situation with me. <----- And it kind of sounds like you are, in fact, saying that the dead person's preferences should dictate the left-to-grieve person's feelings.

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Right. I’m sure Jack wouldn’t want any of them sad. Heck, he didn’t even want his girl sad about her dog. And I’m sure she knows that. (Well best as fictional people can know anything.) And yet, there she is, blaming herself anyways. Because grief doesn’t ask permission.

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My oldest was awake and heard my husband and I watching the last episode. I made sure to tell her in no uncertain terms would we be risking our lives to go back in for her pet fish. She told me that was heartless. Sorry? 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™€ï¸

 

I also felt like the episode was anticlimactic.

 

Re: Jack - I agree he's just doing the best with what he has. Rebecca, OTOH, I understand she was doing her best...but it feels/felt like she was concerned sometimes because of what others thought or felt about her family whereas Jack seemed to doing whatever he did out of love.

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My oldest was awake and heard my husband and I watching the last episode. I made sure to tell her in no uncertain terms would we be risking our lives to go back in for her pet fish. She told me that was heartless. Sorry? 🤷ðŸ¼â€â™€ï¸

 

 

 

My kids think I'm evil because there will be NO looking for the cat in a fire.  (We have an evacuation plan for him in other scenarios, but not that one.)  Unfortunately, they do know that I actually hate the cat, so they think it's personal.

 

The dog is a lot easier.  He's kept to certain spaces (including the girls' beds, which he can't get off of by himself) because he's so tiny that we'd lose him in the house on a normal day!  His fire escape plan is simple.

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I'm going back to practical issues -- and not how fast he died from cardiac arrest at the hospital (that I can buy and I liked the way the scene was directed with the emergency going on in the background). I'm sorry, but as much as the stairwell and upstairs hallway were on fire from the moment Jack woke up, as much as the mattress was catching on fire and burning him while he rescued Kate from her room, as much as the fire then blew out their bedroom window (the room from which they'd all just escaped), I just can't buy Jack coming through the front door,fully dressed, upright, without third degree burns and with several items in his hands. That was a bit unrealistic to me.

 

But maybe I've been watching too much ER on Hulu. :D

 

That said, until the last few episodes, my assumption all this time was that Jack went on a bender and burned the house down in a drunken stupor.  It was nice that this was not the case. 

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I'm going back to practical issues -- and not how fast he died from cardiac arrest at the hospital (that I can buy and I liked the way the scene was directed with the emergency going on in the background). I'm sorry, but as much as the stairwell and upstairs hallway were on fire from the moment Jack woke up, as much as the mattress was catching on fire and burning him while he rescued Kate from her room, as much as the fire then blew out their bedroom window (the room from which they'd all just escaped), I just can't buy Jack coming through the front door,fully dressed, upright, without third degree burns and with several items in his hands. That was a bit unrealistic to me.

 

But maybe I've been watching too much ER on Hulu. :D

 

That said, until the last few episodes, my assumption all this time was that Jack went on a bender and burned the house down in a drunken stupor.  It was nice that this was not the case. 

 

Dh insists the heat would have completely melted him.  But he also thinks that the heat and smoke would have gotten all of them in that scenario.

 

I would think that the show would have consulted with professionals though, even if they chose to bend some "rules" for the story.  So I'm torn on what might be realistic and what isn't.

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I would be hard-pressed to keep my big-as-I-am teenage daughter from running in to rescue her dogs if the house were ablaze. It would be up to DH (who outweighs her) to literally tackle her to the ground to prevent it. Sometimes emotions override logic... and I don't think that makes a person egocentric, kwim?

 

And I grew up in the late-80's and throughout the 90's. We only had one house phone (in the kitchen) until very late 90's or later. 

 

I was specifically talking about Jack.   If Kate had run back in, I find that immature but more normal for teenage behavior.   Jack is an adult, and should know better.  Not that we all haven't done illogical things in intensely emotional situations.  But still.  Jack has some sort of "it's up to me to save the world" complex.   It's not healthy to be running into a burning building to save the family dog because you can't bear to see your daughter upset.  It just speaks volumes to me about Jack.  That is all, character development of Jack, IMHO.  

 

This family is more messed up than they should be.   Is it just normal tv show drama, or are we going to see more and more come out?

 

I've also lost most of my patience with Kate.   I really feel like she's using Jack's death as a crutch at this point.   There is grieving differently, and then there is the inability to move on from something.  Toby should have said something to her.

 

And I grew up in the 70s/80s/90s and we were low income and still had a phone in the bedroom.  Again, I feel like not calling 911 was another example of Jack saving the world.   

 

But, I could be reading entirely too much into a TV show... :leaving:       :lol:

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Dh insists the heat would have completely melted him.  But he also thinks that the heat and smoke would have gotten all of them in that scenario.

 

I would think that the show would have consulted with professionals though, even if they chose to bend some "rules" for the story.  So I'm torn on what might be realistic and what isn't.

 

The running around in the fire and running back in was completely unrealistic, IMHO.   You can't do that in a fire that has progressed to that level.

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I'm going back to practical issues -- and not how fast he died from cardiac arrest at the hospital (that I can buy and I liked the way the scene was directed with the emergency going on in the background). I'm sorry, but as much as the stairwell and upstairs hallway were on fire from the moment Jack woke up, as much as the mattress was catching on fire and burning him while he rescued Kate from her room, as much as the fire then blew out their bedroom window (the room from which they'd all just escaped), I just can't buy Jack coming through the front door,fully dressed, upright, without third degree burns and with several items in his hands. That was a bit unrealistic to me.

 

But maybe I've been watching too much ER on Hulu. :D

 

That said, until the last few episodes, my assumption all this time was that Jack went on a bender and burned the house down in a drunken stupor.  It was nice that this was not the case. 

 

I actually told my DH after the crockpot episode that Jack was going to die from running back in to get the dog.

 

But, as the episode unfolded I thought maybe it would turn out that Kevin was actually in the house and he would go back in to get him out. 

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I've also lost most of my patience with Kate.  

 

But, I could be reading entirely too much into a TV show... :leaving:       :lol:

 

I was reading several comments on another forum and the general consensus is that Kate is whiney and selfish.  Not sure why they wrote her in that way, but she is.

 

TV show.......yeah, things aren't real on TV.  Any shows about teachers or school counselors or schools has me rolling my eyes.

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This family is more messed up than they should be. Is it just normal tv show drama, or are we going to see more and more come out?

 

I've also lost most of my patience with Kate. I really feel like she's using Jack's death as a crutch at this point. There is grieving differently, and then there is the inability to move on from something. Toby should have said something to her.

 

And I grew up in the 70s/80s/90s and we were low income and still had a phone in the bedroom. Again, I feel like not calling 911 was another example of Jack saving the world.

 

But, I could be reading entirely too much into a TV show... :leaving: :lol:

I don’t know, I feel like this family is normal messed up. Sure, their issues are different than my issues but I don’t think their problems are outrageous.

 

For what it’s worth, I’m basically the same age as the Big 3. We only had a kitchen phone and a phone in the basement while I lived at home, the kitchen phone was cordless, but we didn’t have a phone upstairs where the bedrooms were.

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Hey, the next episode is out. I thought the Super Bowl episode was the one for the week, but I'm seeing an additional one this morning. The SB one was a freebie. But then we have to wait until the 27th after that.

I won’t give spoilers, but I thought it was good.
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NO!  I did not.......I need to find a way to watch the last 10 minutes!

 

We recorded the episode and missed the last bit, too. I also saw Kevin by the tree and then the recording ended. :cursing:

 

DH says that I can watch it on nbc.com, but I haven't tried it out yet. Just wanted you to know.

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I don’t know, I feel like this family is normal messed up. Sure, their issues are different than my issues but I don’t think their problems are outrageous.

 

For what it’s worth, I’m basically the same age as the Big 3. We only had a kitchen phone and a phone in the basement while I lived at home, the kitchen phone was cordless, but we didn’t have a phone upstairs where the bedrooms were.

I agree they are normal messed up. Let’s see, how could a man who grew up watching his mother get beat on and his baby brother who idolized him and followed him in war and die there ever end up with a desperate desire to protect and rescue and never disappoint his wife and kids, no matter how small the issue? Gee. I wonder.

 

Kate drives people nuts (including me!) bc her disfunction is not as pretty and socially accepted as her siblings. If only she were to exercise or OCD her grief away no one would notice or care. Or if she hammed it up as a cover. Sure it’s a crutch. People hobbling about usually get crutches. It’s just not acceptable for a woman to have 150lbs of crutch or to be emotional about it. I think Kevin is WAY way the whinest of the three.

 

I got married in 1993 and never had a phone in the bedroom of our previous homes. For that matter, we still do not have any phones upstairs. There’s one tv up there and that’s it as far as electronics of any kind.

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As far as realistically... smoke would have likely incapacitated them all. Their odds of survival went down the minute they opened their doors. And it’s a two story house. They’d survive the fall as long as they didn’t go head first. I’d have totally screamed at them all to jump or I’d have bloody well tossed them. Well worth the broken wrist or ankle vs burnt up or dead.

 

But stranger survival stories exist so *shrug*.

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DH says that I can watch it on nbc.com, but I haven't tried it out yet. Just wanted you to know.

 

That's where I watch it every week, online at nbc.com. You have to wait until late at night or the next morning, but that works for me. 

Edited by milovany
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I think the circumstances of Jack's death really contribute to how he is remembered. I mean, he saves them all from this massive fire, including the dog and all the important stuff (photo albums, VHS, and Rebecca's necklace), they think they have survived this incredibly intense and terrifying incident only to have their father/husband die completely unexpectedly several hours after they think their family had made it through this horrible event. I think the ages of the kids played a huge role in how they view their father, as well. It was such a pivotal time to lose their father and I think the circumstances only compounded those emotions. Also, both Kevin and Kate have a lot of guilt over Jack's death; Kate because she feels like it is his fault and Kevin because the last conversation they had was so negative.

 

I think the writers did a great job touching on the very issue people are bringing up with the hero view. In the show with Kevin's family therapy session, Toby and the spouses are at a bar and they discuss the whole "Saint Jack" and how nothing bad can ever be said about Jack among the Pearson nuclear family. To me that is the brilliance of the show, they are hitting on what the viewers might be feeling ("Hey guys, time to move on" or "He had flaws, he was an okay dad"), but we are also seeing how the family is shaped by their ages and circumstances of Jack's death, especially the kids.

 

I think Rebecca is just so very sad. She had this last amazing night with her husband when they were looking to their future and the season after raising their babies. Jack saves not only her and the kids, but the precious family mementos that will be her link to her life with Jack. She thinks he's going to be okay despite this harrowing experience. Jack was her balance, a bridge between she and Kate, the enforcer of respect with Kevin. I don't really know if she holds him on the pedestal the kids do, but I certainly wouldn't blame her if she did. 

 

The future Tess storyline was hinted out a few episodes ago. The boy being placed in foster care has been shown before (maybe in the Randalls buy an apartment episode?). The creators love playing with time and our perception of when events are happening. That is an underlying strategy used throughout the show. I think because it speaks to the universalness of life (one event 20 years ago alters the Pearson family's life dramatically) and why so many people can relate to and love the show. 

 

I have more, but I have to run for now. 

 

(Also, the big 3 are 37, Jack died in 1997, so they were born in 1980)

 

 

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My father died when I was about the same age, actually maybe indeed the same age - and the timeline closely matches the show -- and I think it is quite a time in a young adult's life to lose a parent. I know that I was just finally seeing my father as someone new, someone completely different than the role of my dad and the definition I had created from childhood, someone with his own shortcomings in a realistic light, not the light of youth where every misstep can be overblown and exaggerated. I was starting to understand what it meant that he was his own person, if that makes sense, and a person with all the faults of anyone else but also with more positive traits than I had previously recognized or appreciated.

I think it hurt so much then, and now still, to lose him then because I felt like he (and my two sisters that are the same age as myself) were just finally getting to know him, he was becoming so much of a real person in our eyes, and then he was gone and we lost the chance to know more, lost the chance to replace all our childhood criticisms of him with a real understanding of him. 

I wouldn't say that I or we thought my dad was the greatest dad ever, but I would say that we were starting to understand that he was a good dad and a good man and that maybe we had ignored him and underestimated him for a long time. His actions were never as big as Jacks or as persistent, but I still feel like there is a great loss in my life for not getting to know him and for losing so much, in hindsight, for not knowing him better before he died. Yeah, it's a hard time to lose a parent because it's such a point of discovery, I think. I think it would have felt different to lose him at a younger age or at an older age, if I either never reached a point of starting to know him as adult or after I had a chance to know him that way. 

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Watched it this morning finally.  :crying:  :crying:  :crying:

 

Dh lost his mom at 18. It's such a difficult age already, then to add the death of the parent that meant the most to him still has ramifications on our family and his brothers lives. She was the glue that held his whole family together. A death like that can utterly devastate a family.

 

Solidarity like. Ex lost his father to a traumatic event at a young age, it devastated his family and shaped how his family evolved after that, not always in a "we have completely processed the grief" kind of way. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven't read the other replies, but did it seem weird that she ate some candy bar after being told by the Dr. that her husband just died!?!  And I mean wouldn't they have spent way more time reviving him than it took her being on the phone right there while everyone was running around.  And then the staff just all go back to work and there is dead Jack laying on the table in the room all alone.  

 

I was so disappointed in the way this played out.  I needed to see some gut wrenching emotion like when Randall's dad died.  I don't have any closure with this. :)

 

I finally watched it today. At the very end she talks about that bite out of the candy bar and how it haunts her. I actually thought it was a very real moment. She wasn't processing/believing the doctor, she's starving, it's the first minute she's had where she feels like everyone is ok and she can maybe eat something. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

The heart attack scene was too fast for me also, but I think that was totally intentional. They had the rug pulled out from under them. It was sudden, there wasn't enough time to process. We knew his death was coming and at the same time, when it did it was too fast. We didn't have enough time to process or feel all of the feelings that we anticipated we would. In that way, we're having the same experience that they did.

SaveSave

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I finally watched it today. At the very end she talks about that bite out of the candy bar and how it haunts her. I actually thought it was a very real moment. She wasn't processing/believing the doctor, she's starving, it's the first minute she's had where she feels like everyone is ok and she can maybe eat something. It makes perfect sense to me.

 

The heart attack scene was too fast for me also, but I think that was totally intentional. They had the rug pulled out from under them. It was sudden, there wasn't enough time to process. We knew his death was coming and at the same time, when it did it was too fast. We didn't have enough time to process or feel all of the feelings that we anticipated we would. In that way, we're having the same experience that they did.

SaveSave

 

And she was just talking to him and he was ok.  

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