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Do you know any Tiger Mom's?


Stibalfamily
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We require our kids to actively try anything they are tasked to do, even "recreation" type activities they are signed up in.  They are to give their full attention to it.  DS (8yo) got an earful a few months back when he decided not to listen to his skating teacher because he thought he couldn't do the skill.  He wandered off on the ice and chose not to participate.  Nope, wrong answer, bucko!  They are 6 week classes, if you wanted it at the beginning of 6 weeks then you can give your attention to the end of it and decide AFTER that not to participate.

 

We keep schoolwork at a moderately challenging level.  That means some things are not nearly at grade level and neither is the number of subjects.  My goal is to teach how to think through the hard parts and learn how to study.  I can't do that if we go by anyone else's standards of what he should/should not know. 

 

Vacations are only vacations if there is no work to do.  This meant that our teen went back to the hotel each day during our WDW trip so that he could check in with his classes/do homework, and our 7yo carried his violin cross country to practice when we stopped each night.

 

We encourage rounding out.  Our kids take sports, languages, music, art, crafts, and everything is scheduled.  We also encourage a lot of down time to find themselves and use their developing skills to create new hobbies.

 

 

So, yeah, we are sort of Tiger parents, but our oldest has thanked us for it and the 8yo is none the worse for wear.

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I just wonder what the goal is. Money? You won't get that much richer--on the contrary, I don't see that. Status? You can become a doctor or engineer without having been in the gifted program, and many of them learn to read at 6 - 7. Bragging rights? Does anyone really think that a preschool mom bragging about her preschooler's schedule is anything other than pathetic? Get a job, lady.

 

I work with people who had this done to them. What's funny is that the kids lack the skills to move up--so you end up with extremely talented people who lack the talent to drive their own future, or drive a whole company. They end up suited for academia or mid-level engineering jobs, but wherever decisions are concerned, decisions or internal motivation to change the world, you see a huge gap.

 

Now, that doesn't really apply to the kids who drive themselves. Those individuals always stand out. But interestingly you see them in all cultures, in all backgrounds. They just have amazing drive and talent and are most often singularly focused and their parents almost never brag to anyone but their closest friends, because it's like treating your kid like a freak show exhibit.

 

I do see parents like this at our schools because we're in a highly competitive system in the US. I find it something of a joke though, because I was in a gifted and talented program. It's only one year ahead. You can get two years ahead just doing the poor kids' program, Running Start, and still get a scholarship to MIT. You have to wonder if people have a vision of merit and accomplishment outside of their own little circle. Like, do they realize there are many paths here in the US? They all involve hard work but only one involves rapping your kids' knuckles at the age of four....

 

In addition, do these people have goals of their own? I wonder how much of this is just them pushing their anger on to their kids because they don't have their own achievements to speak of.

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I just wonder what the goal is. Money? You won't get that much richer--on the contrary, I don't see that. Status? You can become a doctor or engineer without having been in the gifted program, and many of them learn to read at 6 - 7. Bragging rights? Does anyone really think that a preschool mom bragging about her preschooler's schedule is anything other than pathetic? Get a job, lady.

 

I work with people who had this done to them. What's funny is that the kids lack the skills to move up--so you end up with extremely talented people who lack the talent to drive their own future, or drive a whole company. They end up suited for academia or mid-level engineering jobs, but wherever decisions are concerned, decisions or internal motivation to change the world, you see a huge gap.

 

Now, that doesn't really apply to the kids who drive themselves. Those individuals always stand out. But interestingly you see them in all cultures, in all backgrounds. They just have amazing drive and talent and are most often singularly focused and their parents almost never brag to anyone but their closest friends, because it's like treating your kid like a freak show exhibit.

 

I do see parents like this at our schools because we're in a highly competitive system in the US. I find it something of a joke though, because I was in a gifted and talented program. It's only one year ahead. You can get two years ahead just doing the poor kids' program, Running Start, and still get a scholarship to MIT. You have to wonder if people have a vision of merit and accomplishment outside of their own little circle. Like, do they realize there are many paths here in the US? They all involve hard work but only one involves rapping your kids' knuckles at the age of four....

 

In addition, do these people have goals of their own? I wonder how much of this is just them pushing their anger on to their kids because they don't have their own achievements to speak of.

I agree 100%.
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I just wonder what the goal is. Money? You won't get that much richer--on the contrary, I don't see that. Status? You can become a doctor or engineer without having been in the gifted program, and many of them learn to read at 6 - 7. Bragging rights? Does anyone really think that a preschool mom bragging about her preschooler's schedule is anything other than pathetic? Get a job, lady.

 

I work with people who had this done to them. What's funny is that the kids lack the skills to move up--so you end up with extremely talented people who lack the talent to drive their own future, or drive a whole company. They end up suited for academia or mid-level engineering jobs, but wherever decisions are concerned, decisions or internal motivation to change the world, you see a huge gap.

 

Now, that doesn't really apply to the kids who drive themselves. Those individuals always stand out. But interestingly you see them in all cultures, in all backgrounds. They just have amazing drive and talent and are most often singularly focused and their parents almost never brag to anyone but their closest friends, because it's like treating your kid like a freak show exhibit.

 

I do see parents like this at our schools because we're in a highly competitive system in the US. I find it something of a joke though, because I was in a gifted and talented program. It's only one year ahead. You can get two years ahead just doing the poor kids' program, Running Start, and still get a scholarship to MIT. You have to wonder if people have a vision of merit and accomplishment outside of their own little circle. Like, do they realize there are many paths here in the US? They all involve hard work but only one involves rapping your kids' knuckles at the age of four....

 

In addition, do these people have goals of their own? I wonder how much of this is just them pushing their anger on to their kids because they don't have their own achievements to speak of.

 

Yes! Bragging rights. Putting those bumper stickers on the car, "I'm a honor roll parent." or whatever they say. We don't have those in Canada, but I've seen them in the US. 

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When I look among my friends, the ones who had relentless parental pressure to achieve as they were growing up, are the ones who have spent 10 years of their adult life in therapy. They are wonderful, brilliant and successful people, by many of society's standard "markers", but they still think that whatever they do, however hard they work, they will never ever be good enough. It's hard for them not to pass on those pressures to their own children and subconsciously seek the reflected glory.

 

Obviously, my friendship group isn't a scientifically representative sample, but it does make me realise that mental health is the most important thing, and I need to keep that in mind.

 

I've met a few folk whose relationship with their children was definitely veering towards "tiger parent" . I have my helicopter parenting moments, and have been known to micromanage more than I should, but they took things to a whole other unhealthy (almost abusive) level. I couldn't be with those parents, because I would have spent all my time wanting to "rescue" their kids, feed them ice cream and let them climb trees and watch TV...and that probably would've got me arrested ðŸ˜

Edited by stutterfish
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Yes! Bragging rights. Putting those bumper stickers on the car, "I'm a honor roll parent." or whatever they say. We don't have those in Canada, but I've seen them in the US.

My area has moved way past the bumper sticker: My area neighbors have yard signs that announce, "Mary is an AP Scholar, "Mary is a Varsity swimmer for XYZ High School", etc.

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I just wonder what the goal is. Money? You won't get that much richer--on the contrary, I don't see that. Status? You can become a doctor or engineer without having been in the gifted program, and many of them learn to read at 6 - 7. Bragging rights? Does anyone really think that a preschool mom bragging about her preschooler's schedule is anything other than pathetic? Get a job, lady.

 

I work with people who had this done to them. What's funny is that the kids lack the skills to move up--so you end up with extremely talented people who lack the talent to drive their own future, or drive a whole company. They end up suited for academia or mid-level engineering jobs, but wherever decisions are concerned, decisions or internal motivation to change the world, you see a huge gap.

 

Now, that doesn't really apply to the kids who drive themselves. Those individuals always stand out. But interestingly you see them in all cultures, in all backgrounds. They just have amazing drive and talent and are most often singularly focused and their parents almost never brag to anyone but their closest friends, because it's like treating your kid like a freak show exhibit.

 

I do see parents like this at our schools because we're in a highly competitive system in the US. I find it something of a joke though, because I was in a gifted and talented program. It's only one year ahead. You can get two years ahead just doing the poor kids' program, Running Start, and still get a scholarship to MIT. You have to wonder if people have a vision of merit and accomplishment outside of their own little circle. Like, do they realize there are many paths here in the US? They all involve hard work but only one involves rapping your kids' knuckles at the age of four....

 

In addition, do these people have goals of their own? I wonder how much of this is just them pushing their anger on to their kids because they don't have their own achievements to speak of.

I think it’s just economic insecurity in this country that trickles down to university admissions and further down to high school etc. I think people realize it will be basically impossible for their kids to maintain the standard of living they grew up with, never mind do better than their parents. I realize this too, but I guess I don’t think there’s anything I can do about it. STEM obsession can be explained by this as well. I don’t see much tiger parenting in, say, Western Europe, where most kids will go to their whatever university and it’s not a major cost, etc.
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My area has moved way past the bumper sticker: My area neighbors have yard signs that announce, "Mary is an AP Scholar, "Mary is a Varsity swimmer for XYZ High School", etc.

What, trying to help Mary make friends?? J/k. That is really shocking!

 

Our corollary here is not about academics but team sports - during playoffs and sectionals and whatnot, people put signs in the yard with the kid's name and number. But the signs are sold as a fundraiser, there's no other info on position or stats, and it's team building instead of blowing their own horn!

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Yes! Bragging rights. Putting those bumper stickers on the car, "I'm a honor roll parent." or whatever they say. We don't have those in Canada, but I've seen them in the US. 

 

Honestly, most everyone has one around here. If they're seemingly handed out like candy, it's not really bragging, is it?  ;)

 

(we don't have any such stickers. I expect we'll get some soon - my kids just started PS this year - but I'd have to find a big enough spot without any rust in order to get them to stick lol.)

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Honestly, most everyone has one around here. If they're seemingly handed out like candy, it's not really bragging, is it? ;)

 

(we don't have any such stickers. I expect we'll get some soon - my kids just started PS this year - but I'd have to find a big enough spot without any rust in order to get them to stick lol.)

My mom hung flags (pennants) around the front of our house with ALL the kids’ numbers and a banner in the front yard with my brother’s name/number on GAME DAYS only. No stats, no bragging, just community/team spirit. My brother loved it. The one time my mom didn’t do it (she was sick) my bro asked her if she forgot it was game day. 😂 Edited by Sneezyone
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Honestly, most everyone has one around here. If they're seemingly handed out like candy, it's not really bragging, is it?  ;)

 

(we don't have any such stickers. I expect we'll get some soon - my kids just started PS this year - but I'd have to find a big enough spot without any rust in order to get them to stick lol.)

 

I have this proud parent sticker on my car, per request of my teen. :laugh:

 

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I think it’s just economic insecurity in this country that trickles down to university admissions and further down to high school etc. I think people realize it will be basically impossible for their kids to maintain the standard of living they grew up with, never mind do better than their parents. I realize this too, but I guess I don’t think there’s anything I can do about it. STEM obsession can be explained by this as well. I don’t see much tiger parenting in, say, Western Europe, where most kids will go to their whatever university and it’s not a major cost, etc.

 

I share that insecurity (don't we all) but the tiger mom thing seems like such an unrealistic and inappropriate approach to the problem.

 

Wouldn't working full time and saving for college be a much better bet than a full scholarship--especially for Asians given that many states allow ethnicity-based quotas, and therefore, reduce the chances of Asians in particular getting scholarships (since they compete against each other and not against white people or people from other backgrounds)?

 

Like, my kids do sports and I do extra math. But the key to a standard of living will be my wealth, not their achievements. You can't school your way to money. On the contrary, that takes money.

 

And then when you get into life, you want a mate, because marriage is a great path to economic security. Particularly for second-generation tiger cubs, you'd think they'd realize that neuroticism isn't really the key to economic stability.

 

We are seeing around the Pacific Rim the economic effects of this ridiculous rat race. There are almost no places left where tigers can settle in an area with their own community and get ahead. Take a step back, Asian community, and breathe. This is not really getting anyone anywhere. Really. And then when's the last time you saw an Asian CEO... 

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In answer to the OP, no, I don't know anyone personally who is a Tiger Mom. But I've been insecure about academics when my boys were young and reading wasn't going well. It's not a nice feeling. I wonder if the friend is having to compare her children to more advanced kids and is caught up in some anxiety about it all.

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You are kidding, right?

I wish I were. It reminds me of the Dursley's going to the ceremony to get their award for "Most beautiful yard" (We have had the "winner of the most beautiful yard" signs for awhile, though. The AP and Athlete ones began about two years ago, and are cathcing on in other districts.
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That’s just it, isn’t it? What it takes to be a creator or disruptive entrepreneur isn’t generally what it takes to be successful in conventionally prestigious occupations. And what it takes to reach the top in, say, corporate America is often the connections that first-gens lack. So it works for some and is a path forward but isn’t necessarily a pattern that can be repeated on through the years. Generational wealth creation can be accomplished without that pressure.

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I share that insecurity (don't we all) but the tiger mom thing seems like such an unrealistic and inappropriate approach to the problem.

 

Wouldn't working full time and saving for college be a much better bet than a full scholarship--especially for Asians given that many states allow ethnicity-based quotas, and therefore, reduce the chances of Asians in particular getting scholarships (since they compete against each other and not against white people or people from other backgrounds)?

 

Like, my kids do sports and I do extra math. But the key to a standard of living will be my wealth, not their achievements. You can't school your way to money. On the contrary, that takes money.

 

And then when you get into life, you want a mate, because marriage is a great path to economic security. Particularly for second-generation tiger cubs, you'd think they'd realize that neuroticism isn't really the key to economic stability.

 

We are seeing around the Pacific Rim the economic effects of this ridiculous rat race. There are almost no places left where tigers can settle in an area with their own community and get ahead. Take a step back, Asian community, and breathe. This is not really getting anyone anywhere. Really. And then when's the last time you saw an Asian CEO...

I don’t think they’re going for scholarships. I don’t know, I do admire their energy. I never use the term

“Tiger mom†in a derogatory manner, I mean, great for them. If there is a way of parenting that’s harmful to kids, my money is on that “throw some crappy food their way and lend the car, do whatever†where kids are basically raising themselves.

I have a super compliant, easy going, average kid. Maybe he could go places if I could get my butt in gear versus sitting here chatting with you guys.

I did have a colleague who complained incessantly about his tiger mom. I reminded him he could totally afford his therapy bills. 😂

Edited by madteaparty
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I see true Tiger parenting as different than bragging about their kids.  (For one thing, many of the Asian cultures that specialize in Tiger parenting have taboos against bragging about kids as it is bad luck.)  It is also different than mild pushing in academics, sports and music.  Not all Asian parents are Tiger Moms and Dads.  Not all people with high standards for their kids are Tiger Moms and Dads. I see it as a mental health issue.  It is perfectionism thrust onto a child by an adult who the child naturally wants to please.  It is using shame and physical punishment (of the rapping on the knuckles kind) in order to push kids past the kind of excelling that people do when they truly enjoy an activity.  It ignores mental and even physical health for the sake of the goal at any price. Any practice that has suicide numbers as a possible outcome is not healthy, in my opinion. 

 

One of my childhood friends committed suicide in high school after spending weeks with hardly any sleep in order to achieve entrance to the highest tracked university.  He failed and the shame led to him taking his own life.  His sister was not pushed as hard as a result.  The sorrow that family had sent shockwaves into our community. 

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My ds (17) says he wishes I pushed him harder. This is a kid who was really driven with music so spent years practicing, playing in groups, performing, and competing. He finally decided last year that he didn't want to purse violin in university - he really enjoys math and science and would rather do that. But, now he's applying for all of these impossible programs and he's working his butt off to get his average up. His biggest regret is that I didn't "make" him do better in grade 10 and 11. For what it's worth, most of his marks were in the mid-80's - I was pretty happy with how well he was doing. Since we had just moved here when he was in grade 9 (and grade 9 was his first year in school after always being homeschooled) I was actually just happy that by grade 10 he had made some friends and was starting to enjoy himself a bit. But he actually is kind of mad that I didn't "make" him study more.

 

 

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Not really.  There are probably some around but I don't know them.

 

There are some things I like about that approach, particularly the idea that there are some things worth doing really well, that working hard has real rewards.  I don't think it's necessary to go crazy to teach those things though, but I know that it doesn't often happen in the public schools here - they just don't ask enough of the kids.

 

One thing I really dislike is the emphasis on competitiveness.  And it sounds like the mom in the OP is being developmentally inappropriate to me.

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I don't think of bumper stickers as parents bragging, I've mostly assumed they were a way for the parent to say to their kid I'm proud of you and I'm happy for the world to know it".

 

I used to have a bumper sticker that said, "Caution: Unsocialized Homeschoolers on Board." Now I'm wondering what that said to my kids ;) 

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I don't think of bumper stickers as parents bragging, I've mostly assumed they were a way for the parent to say to their kid "I'm proud of you and I'm happy for the world to know it".

I'm actually fine with the bumper stickers - the award comes from the school, not mom and dad, it's meant to be placed on a car so it's not out-of-place bragging...in my lower income community with poorly performing schools, recognition for academic effort is rare. Sometimes those small trophies from the school are it. They come from the people actually in the child's school, without comparison to wealthier neighboring districts where an A or B probably indicates a higher level, and I don't want to begrudge my neighbors' pride in their child or in his school.

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In answer to the OP, no, I don't know anyone personally who is a Tiger Mom. But I've been insecure about academics when my boys were young and reading wasn't going well. It's not a nice feeling. I wonder if the friend is having to compare her children to more advanced kids and is caught up in some anxiety about it all.

 

Yes, she was telling me what her friends kids are doing. Both their families are still in Thailand. She left Thailand as an adult. So I believe she is most certianly comparing her children to children in Thailand. She does express anxiety that she is not doing enough and they are not achieving enough. 

Edited by Stibalfamily
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Honestly, most everyone has one around here. If they're seemingly handed out like candy, it's not really bragging, is it?  ;)

 

(we don't have any such stickers. I expect we'll get some soon - my kids just started PS this year - but I'd have to find a big enough spot without any rust in order to get them to stick lol.)

 

It's definitely a different culture than in Canada. All that kind of cheering in public is done on the spot at the hockey rink.  :laugh:  Then the critique happens in the car ride on the way home. Just kiddin'!! sort of...

Edited by wintermom
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I grew up in India in the 80's and I would just like to say for the record that not all Indian parents behaved this way with their children. :)

My parents certainly never used shame or corporal punishment to motivate or pressure us into doing better in school.

Like a PP mentioned, not all Tiger parents are Asian and not all Asians are Tiger parents!!

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I do think there is something to be said for developing a good work ethic.

 

I really wonder what the right balance is.  I think I have it pretty much right with my "average" kid who has some learning challenges.  She is a hard worker because she has to be in order to keep up.  I used to give her extra work and she's ended up pretty self-motivated.  The other kid - the early reader etc. - everything comes too easy to her and she's stubborn.  If I were a real tiger mom I'd probably beat her regularly and she'd be in college (or a runaway).  But seriously, I probably need some tips to get her more interested in doing her best and preparing for some productive future.  I haven't found that happy medium yet.

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My ds (17) says he wishes I pushed him harder. This is a kid who was really driven with music so spent years practicing, playing in groups, performing, and competing. He finally decided last year that he didn't want to purse violin in university - he really enjoys math and science and would rather do that. But, now he's applying for all of these impossible programs and he's working his butt off to get his average up. His biggest regret is that I didn't "make" him do better in grade 10 and 11. For what it's worth, most of his marks were in the mid-80's - I was pretty happy with how well he was doing. Since we had just moved here when he was in grade 9 (and grade 9 was his first year in school after always being homeschooled) I was actually just happy that by grade 10 he had made some friends and was starting to enjoy himself a bit. But he actually is kind of mad that I didn't "make" him study more.

 

Hopefully someday he will own his own decisions even in high school. 

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I don't agree with the bolded as there are many benefits to playing sports. A lot of the people I know who are very successful in their careers were athletes in high school. I think a lot of management skills are learned through being on a sports team.

 

The people I know who were big into music in high school haven't done as well in their careers. Most of them are doing okay, but not they are not in or on the path to achieve the most senior positions.

 

Meh - I know plenty of highly successful people in the arts.   Both as a career and as a hobby as an adult.   I just met someone over the weekend who was performing as a main character in a professional musical theater production.  He has a doctorate (not in theater or vocal performance) and his day job is teaching at 2 major universities.  I think it's safe to say, there can be benefits to either/both.  And I don't think a high flying corporate career is the only definition of success.  I do think more competitive personalities will fight harder for those types of opportunities so that observation seems like kind of a no brainer to me.  But there are VERY highly competitive people involved in the arts as well.  Ask me how I know.  LOL.  And maybe they look quite a bit difference than your average high schooler casually involved in the band program.

 

Some people definitely think we are tiger parents.  I have HG+ kids and mostly I just feel like I'm keeping up.   My oldest was miserable and learning nothing in school not to mention he was full of energy and teachers hated him so I pulled him out after first grade.  My kids would climb the walls without activities.  Having outside activities was a great break for me when they were younger and taught them a lot about letting go of perfectionism, learning things piecemeal instead of all at once like the often do, working with a mentor, etc.  One kid got called a prodigy through elementary school because of music skills.  Whatever.  My kids work at their own level and have their asynchronous quirks for sure. 

 

I've had people basically shun us because my kids were too different for those and they took us homeschooling, doing music, etc as some sort of reflection on themselves.  My oldest will be applying to colleges next year and I do worry about talking about that with other parents now that my kid is expressing some interest in a few competitive programs. 

 

I've met plenty of COMPETITIVE parents on my journey and that's more what I think of as a tiger parent.  Can't we all just support our kids in our own way without judging?  Some kids are well served with a little pushing.  Some kids are into sports or music.  Some kids do great with tons of unstructured time.  All can work well for the right kids. 

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It's definitely a different culture than in Canada. All that kind of cheering in public is done on the spot at the hockey rink. :laugh: Then the critique happens in the car ride on the way home. Just kiddin'!! sort of...

Google "car coaching" "the ride home" and kids' sports.

 

It is a serious problem that many kids' sports have addressed; it is definitely addressed in youth hockey.

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I think we were probably the opposite of Tiger mom here though I guess people may have thought otherwise.  I met kids in college who had grown up like that.  THey weren't any better in college than anyone else- doing well but not spectacurly.  I remember at least one Asian who specifically was going against his parent;s wishes- by dating non Asian girls and refusing to go to either law school or medical school.  I believe he ended up working for the US government so not an entrepreneur either.  

 

I have in my house a very successful person who did not grow up in a Tiger household or even a household that did almost any educating.  They did give him a National Geographic subscription and a small telescope when he was in grade school (really small, really cheap).  That got him interested in Astronomy and from there, he eventually ended up interested in Physics.  But really nurturing, educational environment- not at all.   And the deal with him being very successful- not my opinion but others- all of whom want him to lead one thing or another all the time and his promotions, still happening, and awards. 

 

So I saw no reason to be really forceful with educating or with early educating.  I followed the kids lead a lot and we just all enjoyed learning.  Our vacations tended to be very educational because you naturally talk about what you see and read the signs too.  On the long car rides, we often listened to audio tapes that educated.  Other times we read from Roadside Geology or read historical descriptions of areas we were traveling through.  But you can have a lot of fun at an amusement park and also talk about physics or marketing or sociology while standing in line.  

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I don't think of bumper stickers as parents bragging, I've mostly assumed they were a way for the parent to say to their kid "I'm proud of you and I'm happy for the world to know it".

 

It may just be a cultural difference. Americans single out historical heros to celebrate as well, Canadians don't. I can't think of one nationally celebrated historical figure without any baggage besides Laura Secord, and that's because the chocolate is so good!!!!

 

Terry Fox and Rick Hanson (Man in Motion - toured the world in his wheelchair raising awareness and funding for spinal cord damage research) are modern heros, and there are a few sports figures. I don't believe Canadians shoot down individuals as in Poppy Syndrome, but we certainly don't single out our kids and put lawn signs out and bumper stickers on the car. 

Edited by wintermom
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I just wonder what the goal is. Money? You won't get that much richer--on the contrary, I don't see that. Status? 

How about freedom from fear?! Speaking for myself, I know my educational standards were high because I never wanted my daughter to be poor -- to worry about paying one bill instead of another, having to live in an unsafe environment, and having to pick the deeply discounted food over healthier things. 

 

I had a lot of fear growing up. I had to work very hard because my primary education was terrible. I missed a lot of things that were common knowledge in American culture (which wasn't mine). I wanted to ensure a level playing field for my daughter and save her from the horribly embarrassing moments I had experienced.

 

So the point was making life easier for her (and me), driven by my own fear at knowing the costs if you don't fit in educational and socially. Being an outsider in America leaves lasting scars financially, educationally, and emotionally.

Edited by Teacher Mom
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I just went to a birthday party today and was talking with a friend of mine. Her son is four and can read basically anything, somewhere around a 4th or 5th grade reading level! So of course I was trying to get her secret sauce of reading. And I found out she makes him read 3 times a day, for a total of "at least" 2 hours!!!!!! He's 4! I thought maybe he was just brilliant, and he probably is, and that he just liked reading. No, she forces him to read or he is punished. He can't play with friends, go out or go outside if he doesn't do his reading or math. On top of this she has him in tutoring 5 days a week. She thinks he is carp at math because he isn't doing fractions. FRACTIONS! She has a one year old who doesn't know his letters yet and she is concerned he is "stupid" and wants to know "whats wrong with him". This is not including all their extracurriculars. I'm just speechless listening to all this.

 

She is from a third world Asian country, so I am not sure how much of it stems from that. I know nothing of her life before coming to America. But I just cannot believe how hard she pushes these beautiful children. It makes me sad for them and it makes me feel bad about myself too, like maybe we need to do more. Hence we aren't close, I can't be around her too much without feeling inadequate. 

 

I just needed to get that out so I don't explode. All our friends are mutual so I have to keep my physical mouth shut.

 

Yep. I know the adult child of one like that. 

 

Sad. 

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 We have a sign in our front yard that says our son is a varsity soccer player. Maybe it is bragging. I don't know. I didn't mean for it to be bragging. Oops.

 

 

The new up and coming thing for our ageing population is treating our pets like our babies. Can you picture the lawn signs for this? "My pup can poop on command!"  What a proud pet owner.   :lol:

Edited by wintermom
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Some people have mentioned the definition of Tiger Mom.   I think the line is crossed when the child hates the activity that they once loved.   In the Tiger Mom book my heart broke for the Violin playing daughter who never wanted to play again,.  The Tiger Dad with the gymnastics daughter is another perfect example.   The same can happen to reading.  

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Could that success be tied to a naturally high energy level? Physical activities are a necessary outlet for people who are wired to be energetic. Some people aren’t trying harder, they’re just wired to move and DO more. Maybe sports are an outlet for that personality type and not so much the reason they succeed? Of course you learn things doing sports. You can’t really do anything without learning from it, but I’m thinkingvteam sports just might be a place to put all of that internal motivation until you have a more adult pursuit for it.

 

There's a lot of strategizing and getting people to work together that goes along with team sports. The successful businessmen/women I know who were athletes tended to play team sports rather than individual ones. If it were simply just a matter of needing an outlet for excess energy, then why would it make a difference whether it was a team sport vs. an individual one?

 

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I know one. A friend of a friend. She decided in infancy that her child would be a world leader (no, they aren't a family of politicians, they're pretty solidly lower-middle class), extra tutoring from preschool. If any 'friend' can do something that child cannot, they immediately become jealous, resentful and competitive.

Shockingly, this poor child has no friends...

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It may just be a cultural difference. Americans single out historical heros to celebrate as well, Canadians don't. I can't think of one nationally celebrated historical figure without any baggage besides Laura Secord, and that's because the chocolate is so good!!!!

 

Terry Fox and Rick Hanson (Man in Motion - toured the world in his wheelchair raising awareness and funding for spinal cord damage research) are modern heros, and there are a few sports figures. I don't believe Canadians shoot down individuals as in Poppy Syndrome, but we certainly don't single out our kids and put lawn signs out and bumper stickers on the car. 

 

Yes, it's more a sense admirable people rather than heroes.  And no assumptions about them being baggage free.

 

I entered a contest with my friend to write a song for Rick Hansen when he came through on his Man in Motion tour, and we won and got to meet him.  I had a big crush on him so it was very exciting.

Edited by Bluegoat
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There's a lot of strategizing and getting people to work together that goes along with team sports. The successful businessmen/women I know who were athletes tended to play team sports rather than individual ones. If it were simply just a matter of needing an outlet for excess energy, then why would it make a difference whether it was a team sport vs. an individual one?

 

 

I think it's a personality thing. The same gregarious, charismatic people who tend towards team sports would tend to be good networkers and successful in business. 

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I see true Tiger parenting as different than bragging about their kids.  (For one thing, many of the Asian cultures that specialize in Tiger parenting have taboos against bragging about kids as it is bad luck.)  It is also different than mild pushing in academics, sports and music.  Not all Asian parents are Tiger Moms and Dads.  Not all people with high standards for their kids are Tiger Moms and Dads. I see it as a mental health issue.  It is perfectionism thrust onto a child by an adult who the child naturally wants to please.  It is using shame and physical punishment (of the rapping on the knuckles kind) in order to push kids past the kind of excelling that people do when they truly enjoy an activity.  It ignores mental and even physical health for the sake of the goal at any price. Any practice that has suicide numbers as a possible outcome is not healthy, in my opinion. 

 

One of my childhood friends committed suicide in high school after spending weeks with hardly any sleep in order to achieve entrance to the highest tracked university.  He failed and the shame led to him taking his own life.  His sister was not pushed as hard as a result.  The sorrow that family had sent shockwaves into our community. 

 

You make a good point that not all Asian parents do this, though it is most pronounced among the 1st and 2nd gen Asians around here.

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I do have an employee who might be a tiger mom, now that I think about it.  She put all her kids in school as early as possible - I think they are all either early starters or on the very young end of what the law allows.  She also homeschooled for some time, accelerating their course of study as far as she could.  Some of them (or all?) have also gone to the most fancy "gifted school" she could find, then started college as soon as they could, always had to have excellent grades etc.  She would not let any of them drive unless they had a certain GPA (I think straight As), and after one kid didn't do great in his first year of college, she cut him off.

 

She brags a lot and if you have anything good to say about your own kid, watch out.  It will make your head spin.  :p

 

PS this is not an Asian family.

Edited by SKL
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I think it's a personality thing. The same gregarious, charismatic people who tend towards team sports would tend to be good networkers and successful in business. 

 

 

I have noticed the same thing as Crimson Wife. Many higher ups in corporate life played team sports and are still are good athletes. I am not sure what happens first- you are gregarious and are drawn to team sports OR you are really good at team sports and it helps you become popular - particularly if you are a boy. If you go to an elementary school, most likely you will find the most athletic boys to be the most popular boys. It isn't always the case, and there are probably popular boys who are funny, really smart, or have other talents, but usually this is the way it works. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I think the confidence to go out there and give something your all is largely inborn (or not) in kids.

 

One of mine loves sports and the stage and has no problem presenting oral reports in class etc.  The other is so shy that she can't properly display her talent.  Even when she gets up there, she falters because of nerves.  (I was like the second kid myself, and this problem never really went away, though it did get better when I was in my 30s.)

 

Whether and how this confidence can be developed in shy kids, I really don't know.  I have forced my kid to get up there a number of times, in mini theater projects etc., because I want her to feel more comfortable presenting.  She hates it, and I finally stopped signing her up for these activities.

 

As for sports vs. music, I find they are both valuable in different ways, and I require my kids to do both.  I probably don't push the music as hard as I should.

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