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DD may want to fence in college. She is now in 7th grade, but I want to mentally prepare for what's ahead.

 

Do I need to sign up for classes with providers who are NCAA approved?

 

If not every course is NCAA approved, what happens then? She may want to continue with Lukeion's Ancient Greek or take other courses at Lukeion.

 

Are there alternatives to satisfying the NCAA approved courses?

 

And, I read on another post that even if MP, WHA or WTMA is NCAA approved, they can lose that status which means what exactly? That all courses taken up to that point don't count?

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DD may want to fence in college. She is now in 7th grade, but I want to mentally prepare for what's ahead.

 

Do I need to sign up for classes with providers who are NCAA approved?

 

You could. However - be aware that the NCAA only cares about courses that are approved AT THE TIME your daughter takes the class AND AT THE TIME they are evaluating your daughter's portfolio. So, if a course is "NCAA approved" in her 9th grade year - but the NCAA rescinds that approval before her senior year... .... well... there ya go. This happened to two of my dd's friends. They managed to work something out, but it was really stressful for a while.

 

If not every course is NCAA approved, what happens then? She may want to continue with Lukeion's Ancient Greek or take other courses at Lukeion.

Are there alternatives to satisfying the NCAA approved courses?

And, I read on another post that even if MP, WHA or WTMA is NCAA approved, they can lose that status which means what exactly? That all courses taken up to that point don't count?

 

There are a few really good NCAA threads here - and on The College Board forum. You might use google and google NCAA welltrainedmind and see what comes up.

 

You do not have to use NCAA-approved courses (we used only a couple) - but for online or co-op courses, you will want to list yourself as the primary teacher and the online-class provider as a supplementary instructor or other similar title.

 

Community College classes are easy peasy and always approved.

 

The NCAA wants to be ensured that:

 

a) high-school level (or above) textbooks were used. If, in any class, you use a middle-school text as a supplement to a high-school course, leave it off the textbook list.

 

b) high-school level coursework was assigned. I wrote some of dd's class descriptions and used other descriptions from online providers or curricula providers to supplement that information. This wound up being helpful for her Common App anyway, and we included a full four-year class description addition to her applications.

 

c) that the student was, indeed, homeschooled. Hence it being simplest to list yourself as the teacher-in-charge of most of the classes.

 

HTHs and good luck to your daughter!!! It felt like a really scary process at the time we went through it - but in hindsight, what the NCAA wants is pretty basic. Just dot your i's and cross your t's on the paperwork so they don't have to think too hard and make it more complicated than what it is. Use standard titles for your courses (English Comp I - Introduction to Literature, for instance, vs Ferris Beuller's Day Off and His Effects on Modern Literature). Algebra II vs Mathematics 102, etc. Just K.I.S.S.

 

edited to add: DON'T sign up to the NCAA until you absolutely have to. There is no reason to start the process early. Waiting gives you more control over the data.

Edited by hopskipjump
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DD may want to fence in college. She is now in 7th grade, but I want to mentally prepare for what's ahead.

 

Do I need to sign up for classes with providers who are NCAA approved?

 

If not every course is NCAA approved, what happens then? She may want to continue with Lukeion's Ancient Greek or take other courses at Lukeion.

 

Are there alternatives to satisfying the NCAA approved courses?

 

And, I read on another post that even if MP, WHA or WTMA is NCAA approved, they can lose that status which means what exactly? That all courses taken up to that point don't count?

You do not have to take classes that are NCAA approved. Just list yourself as the teacher of record, and designate any online provider you use as a supplementary teacher.

 

 

If an online provider loses their NCAA approval while your daughter is still in high school, that means that any class your daughter took with them, even if it was approved at the time your daughter took the class, will not be accepted by the NCAA. I think this policy is immoral, but there is a lot about the NCAA that I find immoral.

 

 

When your daughter enters 10 grade, you may receive an email from the NCAA telling you to register your daughter with the NCAA eligibility center (I have no idea how they got the email, but my D didn't get this email, so maybe they are no longer doing this) If you do get this email, ignore it. There is no benefit to registering with the NCAA until you have committed to a D1 or D2 school. If you do register and then decide not to play D1, the NCAA will not refund your money.

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DD may want to fence in college. She is now in 7th grade, but I want to mentally prepare for what's ahead.  Yes to mentally planning ahead!  I had no idea we had to go through the NCAA until the summer after sophomore year.  Talk about panic!!

 

Do I need to sign up for classes with providers who are NCAA approved?  Nope.  We were super eclectic with our curriculum and had no problems with any courses being approved.  But maybe do a search for providers who are NOT approved to make sure you don't take one of those.  

 

If not every course is NCAA approved, what happens then? She may want to continue with Lukeion's Ancient Greek or take other courses at Lukeion.

 

Are there alternatives to satisfying the NCAA approved courses?  I don't believe so.  

 

And, I read on another post that even if MP, WHA or WTMA is NCAA approved, they can lose that status which means what exactly? That all courses taken up to that point don't count?

 

We did co-op classes, but not online courses, so I don't have experience with those.  

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The first thing to do is download the Homeschool Toolkit. The link for the Core Course Worksheet template is on page 10; if you fill these out as the courses are completed, it will save a lot of stress when you're ready to submit it all. (FWIW, high school level math and foreign language courses taken in 8th grade can count for the core course requirements.)

 

The basic Core Course Requirements are:

4 yrs English

3 yrs math

2 yrs science

1 add'l year of English, math, or science

2 yrs social science

4 add'l yrs of the above subjects, foreign language, philosophy, or comparative religions

 

Those are the only courses for which you will need to provide either a Core Course Worksheet or a transcript from an accredited school or college (NCAA loves to see DE courses and they will be automatically approved). If you do the standard 5 cores every year, then your DD will have completed everything but the 4th English credit by the end of junior year, and will just need to submit the CCW for the last English credit as a senior.

 

Personally I would not rely on "approved provider" status for any online courses, since NCAA can change that status at any time (and yes, they can apply it retroactively). IMO the best way to handle outside courses is to include some additional resources and work, so that the outside class is just one component of a homeschooled class, and you are assigning the final grade. So, for example, for Greek and Latin you can order 5 NLE/NGE practice exams from the ACL for each level, and include those and the actual NGE/NLE exam as part of the final grade along with the Lukeion quizzes. List yourself as Teacher of Record (you are assigning the final grade) and the Lukeion teacher as Other Teacher. For Curriculum Designer/Provider you can list the ACL, the publisher of whatever text is used, and the Lukeion teacher (list by name, do not list "Lukeion.") You can do the same thing with co-op classes: add some extra reading, discussion, documentaries or Great Courses lectures, etc., and include those in the curriculum and assessments lists. List yourself as Teacher of Record and the co-op teacher as Other.

 

As mentioned above, there is no point in actually submitting anything to NCAA until you have a D1 or D2 coach who is interested enough in your DD to request a review; NCAA will not even look at the paperwork until a student is listed on a D1/D2 coach's Institutional Request List. There are a lot of good D3 schools with fencing teams, especially women's teams, and if your DD choses a D3 school, you don't have to get NCAA approval at all. (You can see a list of schools with NCAA fencing programs, including which division they are in, here.) The official recruiting period for fencing begins the summer after junior year, so it's a good idea to take the SAT or ACT in spring of junior yr, since that's one of the first things coaches will ask for. You can definitely contact them before that, you can chat at NACs, even do unofficial visits, but they can't officially recruit you until then.

 

Feel free to PM me if you want more info specifically about fencing recruiting. Fencing can provide a nice boost in admissions, especially for women, and as long as the academic stats are in range the student doesn't even need to be very highly ranked — I know a girl with an D-rating who was offered ED slots at multiple top schools with less competitive fencing teams, and a girl with a B-rating (earned in local tournaments) who will be fencing at Cornell next year.

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Personally I would not rely on "approved provider" status for any online courses, since NCAA can change that status at any time (and yes, they can apply it retroactively). IMO the best way to handle outside courses is to include some additional resources and work, so that the outside class is just one component of a homeschooled class, and you are assigning the final grade. So, for example, for Greek and Latin you can order 5 NLE/NGE practice exams from the ACL for each level, and include those and the actual NGE/NLE exam as part of the final grade along with the Lukeion quizzes. List yourself as Teacher of Record (you are assigning the final grade) and the Lukeion teacher as Other Teacher. For Curriculum Designer/Provider you can list the ACL, the publisher of whatever text is used, and the Lukeion teacher (list by name, do not list "Lukeion.") You can do the same thing with co-op classes: add some extra reading, discussion, documentaries or Great Courses lectures, etc., and include those in the curriculum and assessments lists. List yourself as Teacher of Record and the co-op teacher as Other.

 

 

I'm curious to hear from people who have successfully been through the process who did not do this.  We will be counting outsourced foreign language from pre-high school years and I do not have anything like this to include.  I'm wondering if this is going to be a problem.

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Thanks everyone! This has been so helpful.

 

For recommendation letters, can I still ask Lukeion or other teachers to write them even though they will mention their school's name? Will that be a problem?

 

I have specific questions about recruitment and fencing, but I don’t know if the process is similar across all sports. For example, what does being recruited by coaches/schools and committed to schools mean exactly in the timeline of things? So I’m assuming there college coaches at regional tournaments scouting kids and if the coaches are interested in the kid, the kid will commit to the school and then submit a college application? Does that mean we need to attend as many tournaments as possible?

 

Thanks Corraleno, I’ll PM you once I gather all my questions. I didn't even think about college fencing because DD started fencing much later than all the other kids so she is really there for the fun of it. I needed to find another activity for her to make friends and exercise a bit, and the fencing club happens to be close enough and not expensive. One of the coaches mentioned that she shouldn't lose hope in college fencing because there are D3 schools who take kids with D ratings.

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For recommendation letters, can I still ask Lukeion or other teachers to write them even though they will mention their school's name? Will that be a problem?

The Core Course Worksheets you send to NCAA are totally separate from college applications. No one but NCAA sees those, and I think colleges just get an approval or disapproval notice. DS used Lukeion for recommendations. I can PM you with additional details.

 

I have specific questions about recruitment and fencing, but I don’t know if the process is similar across all sports. For example, what does being recruited by coaches/schools and committed to schools mean exactly in the timeline of things? So I’m assuming there college coaches at regional tournaments scouting kids and if the coaches are interested in the kid, the kid will commit to the school and then submit a college application? Does that mean we need to attend as many tournaments as possible?

College coaches will usually be at the national competitions (NACs, Junior Olympics, Summer Nationals), where they are coaching their own athletes as well as watching potential recruits, but you won't see them at regional competitions. ROCs and RJCCs are a good stepping stone to national competitions (and an excellent way to move up in the ratings), but they're not really relevant to college recruiting. Unlike the big money sports, fencing recruiting is much more athlete-led — generally it is up to the fencer to contact the coaches at schools they're interested in, and to follow up, arrange visits, etc., not the other way around.

 

I wouldn't worry about any of that before junior year of HS, though. Coaches cannot officially recruit before the summer after junior year, although "unofficial" discussions can happen before that, and some of the very very top recruits may make informal, nonbinding commitments. But schools can't do admissions prereads before summer after junior year, so no official offers can be made before then. Most recruiting in fencing (for all but the very very top prospects) begins at Summer Nationals after junior year and continues through the fall — generally up to ED deadlines, although some kids may choose to apply RD and hope that coaches will still have some slots available (or at least some pull).

 

Thanks Corraleno, I’ll PM you once I gather all my questions. I didn't even think about college fencing because DD started fencing much later than all the other kids so she is really there for the fun of it. I needed to find another activity for her to make friends and exercise a bit, and the fencing club happens to be close enough and not expensive. One of the coaches mentioned that she shouldn't lose hope in college fencing because there are D3 schools who take kids with D ratings.

If she's already fencing in 7th grade, she started at least a year earlier than DS! He had his first lesson when he was in 8th grade, had a B rating within a year, won his first national medal at a Junior NAC 2 yrs after that, and had earned 5 national medals, 1 international medal, a top 10 ranking, and hefty scholarship offers just 4.5 yrs after his first lesson. A lot can change between now and Junior year!

 

And even if she's still a D by then, there are some really good schools (like Vassar, Wellesley, Haverford, Brandeis, Tufts, Johns Hopkins) that will happily take a D-rated fencer with excellent academic stats. Different coaches have different levels of "pull" (varying from can-guarantee-admission to can-maybe-help-a-little), and usually students are expected to apply ED in return for the coach's support, but it can definitely give an admissions boost to someone whose academic stats are in range for the school.

Edited by Corraleno
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