Would you eat this

[kfeusse]

I made mashed potatoes tonight for a meal for tomorrow... So I set them on the counter top to cool around 7... And forgot about them until about 9. I had sour cream and butter in them. They are still ok to eat, right?

[Laura Corin]

I would eat them.

[kiana]

I would eat them without a moment of hesitation. 

[Callie]

Yes.

[fraidycat]

For sure.

[Tap]

yep

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sure. 

[katilac]

Goodness, yes. I leave food out for longer than that all the time, no forgetting involved, lol. 

[LucyStoner]

Where’s the gravy? Hellz yes.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Yes.  I routinely leave a hot dish out all evening until it's room temp before popping it into the fridge so as not to heat up the fridge.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would eat them.

[regentrude]

Of course I would eat them. It takes two hours or more to cool to room temp - makes no sense to put it in the fridge earlier, you'd just warm up your refrigerator.

The butter is absolutely not an issue; you can store butter at room temperature.

Edited January 28, 2018 by regentrude

[Kassia]

Even I would eat them and I'm really careful.  Over two hours, I probably wouldn't. 

[katilac]

Let me appall all the careful people: when I cook for lunch, we intentionally leave it on the stove till dinner. 

 

Several of my aunts used to cook in the morning and leave it on the stove all day. I've never tried this, but that's because I'm way too lazy to get up and start cooking right away. 

[DawnM]

Of course.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Let me appall all the careful people: when I cook for lunch, we intentionally leave it on the stove till dinner. 

 

Several of my aunts used to cook in the morning and leave it on the stove all day. I've never tried this, but that's because I'm way too lazy to get up and start cooking right away. 

 

I do this too.  And what your aunts did...I do that too.

 

except in summer...

[MEmama]

I do this too. And what your aunts did...I do that too.

 

except in summer...

Same. I didn't realize it's unusual.

[solascriptura]

Let me appall all the careful people: when I cook for lunch, we intentionally leave it on the stove till dinner. 

 

Several of my aunts used to cook in the morning and leave it on the stove all day. I've never tried this, but that's because I'm way too lazy to get up and start cooking right away. 

Yeah.  Honestly, I usually leave my pots of soup on the stove overnight.  I have never ever food poisoned anyone.  I regularly leave stuff on the stove and feed it to my young children.  I just heat it thoroughly and serve.  Again, I have never food poisoned anyone.  All of the instances I have been food poisoned, it was from other's cooking and they were usually the food police type people.  

[ktgrok]

yes!

 

Even the most conservative of guidelines is 2 hours at room temperature. And that's for things like egg salad and such! Butter is fine at room temp for days, and sour cream is very hard to spoil. They should be fine. 

[ktgrok]

Yeah.  Honestly, I usually leave my pots of soup on the stove overnight.  I have never ever food poisoned anyone.  I regularly leave stuff on the stove and feed it to my young children.  I just heat it thoroughly and serve.  Again, I have never food poisoned anyone.  All of the instances I have been food poisoned, it was from other's cooking and they were usually the food police type people.  

 

Just to clarify, heating it again does nothing. Even boiling it won't solve the issue if it WAS dangerous. The problem is that the bacteria produce toxins, and those are what make us sick. Boiling will kill the bacteria but do nothing for the toxins, so you can still get sick. 

 

Not saying your soup has bacteria in it, lol. 

 

Just I've seen that 'reheat it thoroughly" sentiment many times on these threads and wanted to address it. If something is already gone bad, and has those toxins, reheating it won't help. 

[bibiche]

Of course I would eat them. It takes two hours or more to cool to room temp - makes no sense to put it in the fridge earlier, you'd just warm up your refrigerator.

While I would not worry about the potatoes, I did want to address cooling off foods and storage.

 

Modern fridges are such that you are not likely to warm them up to an unsafe temperature by refrigerating warm food. That said, it is easy to quickly cool food for storage. If you have something solid like rice or potatoes or beans or whatever you can turn them onto a sheet pan to form a thinner layer that will cool quickly. You can put the sheet pan onto another that contains some ice water to cool it even more quickly.

 

Soups and stocks should be cooled quickly in an ice bath or even just a sink or pot of cold water (that you change to keep cold). If you live in a place that gets snow, grab some of that in a large bowl to cool things quickly.

 

It's always better to cool things quickly. You don't want food hanging out at temperatures between 40F and 140F. And you won't lose food that you *meant* to put away but forgot (the subject of most of the "would you eat this?" posts, I think!) if you just cool it immediately.

 

Oh, and store still warm food on the top shelf to minimize the possibility of warming other food in the fridge.

Edited January 29, 2018 by bibiche

[regentrude]

Let me appall all the careful people: when I cook for lunch, we intentionally leave it on the stove till dinner. 

 

That's what we always did when I grew up: lunch was the main cooked meal; any leftovers sat out until dinner, in case anybody wanted them then. Fridge was tiny compared to the giant American fridges. I cannot recall that anybody in the family ever had food related illness.

Edited January 29, 2018 by regentrude

[Word Nerd]

Let me appall all the careful people: when I cook for lunch, we intentionally leave it on the stove till dinner.

 

Several of my aunts used to cook in the morning and leave it on the stove all day. I've never tried this, but that's because I'm way too lazy to get up and start cooking right away.

Why? What’s the appeal?

[ktgrok]

That's what we always did when I grew up: lunch was the main cooked meal; any leftovers sat out until dinner, in case anybody wanted them then. Fridge was tiny compared to the giant American fridges. I cannot recall that anybody in the family ever had food related illness.

 

1. if anyone ever had an upset stomach, how would you have known what cause it? Often it would be blamed on a virus, I imagine. 

 

2. Food actually WAS safer then. Salmonella didn't even really exist in previous generations. And due to the way meat was raised/ processed there was much less e-coli contamination. So it just wasn't as much of a concern as it is now with factory farming methods. 

[regentrude]

1. if anyone ever had an upset stomach, how would you have known what cause it? Often it would be blamed on a virus, I imagine.

 

I cannot recall a single time of "stomach flu" running through our family either. At the most, one kid had some short lived stomach upset; nothing that affected everybody.

The only instances of throwing up I remember were from car sickness.

 

 

 

2. Food actually WAS safer then. Salmonella didn't even really exist in previous generations. And due to the way meat was raised/ processed there was much less e-coli contamination. So it just wasn't as much of a concern as it is now with factory farming methods.

 

ETA: I am not that old, so factory farming was a thing then, too. But in the country where I grew up, chickens were vaccinated against salmonella.

 

2nd ETA: And we're talking about cooked foods. Any salmonella would be killed by cooking. How would new salmonella contaminate the food in a pot?

Edited January 29, 2018 by regentrude

[Laura Corin]

I cannot recall a single time of "stomach flu" running through our family either. At the most, one kid had some short lived stomach upset; nothing that affected everybody.

The only instances of throwing up I remember were from car sickness.

 

I sometimes leave things to cool overnight. The last time I threw up was when giving birth almost 18 years ago. I can't remember any instances of diarrhoea either.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Why? What’s the appeal?

 

I basically do it so I don't have to dirty more dishes. 

[Word Nerd]

I was never in a car accident or suffered the consequences of not wearing a seatbelt as a kid, but...

[bibiche]

I was never in a car accident or suffered the consequences of not wearing a seatbelt as a kid, but...

 

Ha! I was thinking exactly this as I was quickly cooling some food off to refrigerate. I mean, why *not* practice safe food handling techniques?!  To me, it is as basic as washing one's hands after using the toilet.  You just do it.

[Kassia]

I was never in a car accident or suffered the consequences of not wearing a seatbelt as a kid, but...

 

I thought the same thing, too! 

 

ETA:  Also, things like recalled cribs, playpens, infant seats, etc.  Your kids may have survived them with no issues, but that doesn't mean you should continue to use them.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Kassia

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was never in a car accident or suffered the consequences of not wearing a seatbelt as a kid, but...

 

Do you really think this is a fair comparison? 

[Laura Corin]

Ha! I was thinking exactly this as I was quickly cooling some food off to refrigerate. I mean, why *not* practice safe food handling techniques?!  To me, it is as basic as washing one's hands after using the toilet.  You just do it.

 

What's interesting is to what extent food safety rules are safety-led rather than industry-led.  This article is fun about when mould is a problem and when not:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29701768

[Laura Corin]

Do you really think this is a fair comparison? 

 

The fair comparison would be: I was in a car accident once a week, every week, without/with a seatbelt and every week I was/was not injured.

 

I do suspect that I, and the whole family, have a pretty robust constitution, having lived in developing countries for some years.

[katilac]

  sour cream is very hard to spoil

 

Flashback to Steven Wright's deadpan: Why is there an expiration date on sour cream? 

 

<snip> If you have something solid like rice or potatoes or beans or whatever you can turn them onto a sheet pan to form a thinner layer that will cool quickly. You can put the sheet pan onto another that contains some ice water to cool it even more quickly.

 

Soups and stocks should be cooled quickly in an ice bath or even just a sink or pot of cold water (that you change to keep cold). If you live in a place that gets snow, grab some of that in a large bowl to cool things quickly. <snip>

 

 

Every time someone posts stuff like this, I realize just how lazy I am. 

 

Why? What’s the appeal?

 

The appeal of cooking early is that you are done for the day. The appeal of letting in sit on the stove is sheer laziness, and ease of use for anyone eating at a non-standard time. 

[bibiche]

I do suspect that I, and the whole family, have a pretty robust constitution, having lived in developing countries for some years.

 

True. My family laugh at me when I am doing my usual freakout about food handling and remind me that I've spent a lot of time in a lot of places with very questionable food handling/sanitation practices and yet I've survived. We likely wouldn't get sick even if I abandoned all of my rules, nevertheless, in my own kitchen food safety is paramount. (The fact that I have a horror of wasting food and take not wasting any as a personal challenge probably plays into it.)

Edited January 29, 2018 by bibiche

[Word Nerd]

Do you really think this is a fair comparison? 

 

Perhaps not, but it's still a pretty silly argument against following food safety guidelines.

[chocolatechip]

Absolutely, I'd eat them without a second (or even first) thought.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Perhaps not, but it's still a pretty silly argument against following food safety guidelines.

 

I wasn't trying to argue against following food safety guidelines.  I only mentioned what I do, and why I do it. 

[ktgrok]

The fair comparison would be: I was in a car accident once a week, every week, without/with a seatbelt and every week I was/was not injured.

 

I do suspect that I, and the whole family, have a pretty robust constitution, having lived in developing countries for some years.

That would only be the comparison IF the food was definitely contaminated with bacteria. It's possible the food was never contaminated, so eating it was never risky to start with. No way to know 

[skimomma]

Ha! I was thinking exactly this as I was quickly cooling some food off to refrigerate. I mean, why *not* practice safe food handling techniques?!  To me, it is as basic as washing one's hands after using the toilet.  You just do it.

 

Because dirtying a bunch cookie sheets to spread out chili for quick cooling or using a bunch of water to douse hot pots or hauling snow into my kitchen is a PITA.  It takes extra time and resources when we are all lucky enough I had the time and resources to make the meal to begin with!.  It is worth the pain if the risk is significantly probable and grave.  But with the risk being very low (no one in my family has ever had food poisoning) and with the risk "only" being food poisoning (not death), it seems like a lot of work over years and years when my method of the last 20 years of leaving the pot of chili on the stove until cool enough to put into the fridge has not resulted in illness.  If I am feeding others, I always do practice "safer" food handling.  But I cannot ever see myself trying to cool a vat of beans on a cookie sheet.  At that point, we would be ordering a pizza.

[bibiche]

Because dirtying a bunch cookie sheets to spread out chili for quick cooling or using a bunch of water to douse hot pots or hauling snow into my kitchen is a PITA.  It takes extra time and resources when we are all lucky enough I had the time and resources to make the meal to begin with!.  It is worth the pain if the risk is significantly probable and grave.  But with the risk being very low (no one in my family has ever had food poisoning) and with the risk "only" being food poisoning (not death), it seems like a lot of work over years and years when my method of the last 20 years of leaving the pot of chili on the stove until cool enough to put into the fridge has not resulted in illness.  If I am feeding others, I always do practice "safer" food handling.  But I cannot ever see myself trying to cool a vat of beans on a cookie sheet.  At that point, we would be ordering a pizza.

 

Whatever floats your boat.  For me, again, it is just basic hygiene and I consider the extra few minutes it takes to practice it no less important than cleaning my house or washing my hands after using the toilet. But I understand that some people think those things are a waste of time/PITA too.  :ack2:  

Edited January 30, 2018 by bibiche

[skimomma]

Whatever floats your boat.  For me, again, it is just basic hygiene and I consider the extra few minutes it takes to practice it no less important than cleaning my house or washing my hands after using the toilet. But I understand that some people think those things are a waste of time/PITA too.  :ack2:  

 

It is a continuum for sure.  The ironic thing is that I am the one that purchases and then sneaks ice into my friends' coolers while camping because I am certain they are going to poison themselves with poor cooler management.  You think a pot of chili cooling on a counter for two hours is bad, trying watching people eat four day old already-opened hummus (that their non-hand-washing kids have grazed on for those four days) from a cooler with only some maybe-cool water left in it!  Ice long gone.  If they are not dead yet, my chili is probably not going to do it.

 

I also wonder if spreading out food on a large surface like a cookie sheet to cool food faster also introduces the food to more potential contaminants?  Both due to contact with the sheet and exposure to the air.  It bothers me to transfer leftovers from one container to another multiple times, although I am not sure it is a legit concern.  I make my own yogurt and noticed a huge difference in success when I started flash-steralizing the jars beforehand.  That got me thinking that there are all kinds of goodies hanging onto seemingly clean kitchenware.

[bibiche]

It is a continuum for sure.  The ironic thing is that I am the one that purchases and then sneaks ice into my friends' coolers while camping because I am certain they are going to poison themselves with poor cooler management.  You think a pot of chili cooling on a counter for two hours is bad, trying watching people eat four day old already-opened hummus (that their non-hand-washing kids have grazed on for those four days) from a cooler with only some maybe-cool water left in it!  Ice long gone.  If they are not dead yet, my chili is probably not going to do it.

 

I also wonder if spreading out food on a large surface like a cookie sheet to cool food faster also introduces the food to more potential contaminants?  Both due to contact with the sheet and exposure to the air.  It bothers me to transfer leftovers from one container to another multiple times, although I am not sure it is a legit concern.  I make my own yogurt and noticed a huge difference in success when I started flash-steralizing the jars beforehand.  That got me thinking that there are all kinds of goodies hanging onto seemingly clean kitchenware.

 

Oh, I've seen some pretty questionable stuff camping with people too, so I hear ya.

 

For the transferring to a shallow layer to cool, yes, that's the way to do it. You can read poor Carlos's* cautionary tale. ;)

 

pfft. always have to blame it on the Latino... 

Edited January 30, 2018 by bibiche

[Kassia]

In the winter, I cool foods off in our enclosed patio that is not heated before putting them in the refrigerator or freezer.  I set the timer so I don't forget about them, but it's usually cold enough out there that it wouldn't matter (it's only in the teens right now).  

 

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Kassia

[regentrude]

Can anybody enlighten me about the source of bacteria in thoroughly cooked , covered, food in my kitchen on timescales of hours?

If I have a pot of, say, mashed potatoes or chilli with a lid sitting on my counter, from what source do harmful bacteria come and enter this pot? 

 

This is a completely different scenario from unrefrigerated raw foods that can already be bacterially contaminated when you buy them, and where refrigeration inhibits the increase of bacterial count. Or from a potluck where strangers have access to foods and can contaminate them with bacteria they carry on their unwashed hands.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by regentrude

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Oh, I've seen some pretty questionable stuff camping with people too, so I hear ya.

 

For the transferring to a shallow layer to cool, yes, that's the way to do it. You can read poor Carlos's* cautionary tale. ;)

 

pfft. always have to blame it on the Latino...

Carlos has these huge industrial vats and pans of too hot beans, stacked up keeping themselves hot. This is nothing like a 2qt saucepan on the kitchen stove at home, sitting out for the duration of the meal but still transferred to a non-crowded family fridge (in another, room temp dish) while still warm.

 

I've worked in industrial kitchens. There are a LOT of practices necessary for large volume, large scale, high traffic, too many cooks in the kitchen scenarios, that are not necessary for the home kitchen.

 

I put the cooked food away after a brief, room temp cooling. I don't leave pots of soup out until dinner, or overnight. My food is always wrapped, refrigerated, or whatever, within an hour at the latest. I still share regentrude' question of where bacteria comes from? In a 2 or 3 quart panful of food that comes to room temp gradually but soon, in a clean kitchen with good practices, handled by a single, conscientious chef who knows her meat was clean and fully cooked, and her mixing spoon was not set down on a dirty surface, and her produce was peeled and washed...?

[Sandwalker]

Can anybody enlighten me about the source of bacteria in thoroughly cooked , covered, food in my kitchen on timescales of hours?

If I have a pot of, say, mashed potatoes or chilli with a lid sitting on my counter, from what source do harmful bacteria come and enter this pot?

 

This is a completely different scenario from unrefrigerated raw foods that can already be bacterially contaminated when you buy them, and where refrigeration inhibits the increase of bacterial count. Or from a potluck where strangers have access to foods and can contaminate them with bacteria they carry on their unwashed hands.

There's bacteria on everything, even your clean pots, even the cookie sheet a PP uses to spread her chili on to cool it.

 

So if something sits out at room temp, there is time and ripe conditions for the few bacteria to multiply into enough that could affect you if eaten.

 

I've never heard of these flash cooling methods in my life. Sometimes I'm so glad to be vegan.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Sandwalker

[Lang Syne Boardie]

There's bacteria on everything, even your clean pots, even the cookie sheet a PP uses to spread her chili on to cool it.

So if something sits out at room temp, there is time and ripe conditions for the few bacteria to multiply into enough that could affect you if eaten.

I've never heard of these flash cooling methods in my life. Sometimes I'm so glad to be vegan.

Being vegan doesn't help you - Carlos was cooking beans, and people seem to get sick (bacteria caused illness, I mean) from produce in this country as much as from animal products. :( As ktgrok said, factory farming causes a lot of these problems.

[8circles]

Why do I not stress about leaving food out on the stove? Because I don't believe that it's that risky to leave food out for a few hours in my clean kitchen with my food prepared safely with clean utensils.

 

And, to spite my MIL who thinks that being a trained dietitian makes her the food-safety police despite the fact that she probably has the most disgusting kitchen I've ever set foot in.

[Sandwalker]

Being vegan doesn't help you - Carlos was cooking beans, and people seem to get sick (bacteria caused illness, I mean) from produce in this country as much as from animal products. :( As ktgrok said, factory farming causes a lot of these problems.

Yes, thank you, slaughterhouses, for spraying the liquified blood and feces onto my spinach.

 

It sure is easier in my kitchen since we don't have animal products, though. We are careful about beans since they cool down so slowly, and with cooked rice because there is a weird bacteria that can grow in it that can make you very sick.