Online college degrees

[desertstrawberry5]

Without reading the responses, my husband has a degree from an online school that offers a specialized degree in his field (safety). It's not a widely available degree, and it's a field that most people enter later in life. Not only is it well-accepted and recognized, but when he interviewed at a Fortune 100 company, the interviewer was attending the same school. He got the job. 

While there surely are crappy programs, there are also good ones, like this one that fill a need not being met elsewhere. I think you have to take each program by its own merits. 

[unsinkable]

I have thought about disability but when I started researching it I got so confused. I even tried to find a disability lawyer anywhere around me and there are none. I'd have to travel an hour away or more to get to one.

 

Also, I thought one thing of proving disability is that the person can't hold down a job. My ds did hold down a job, for over a year. He only quit because he didn't like doing the work anymore. He could go to any grocery store, or retailer, and get hired on as a stock clerk again. I'm sure he would get a good reference. And his job didn't even know he had Aspergers. He didn't tell them.

You can call the disability lawyer.

 

AFAIK, (I might be repeating stuff other people here have said) the first application is usually denied. The appeal takes over 18 months to be heard.

 

It is worth some phone calls.

[Dmmetler]

Check proctoring requirements. A lot of the online classes offered at DD’s campus require either doing exams on campus or having them proctored by something like a testing center at a college or university.

[Crimson Wife]

Check proctoring requirements. A lot of the online classes offered at DD’s campus require either doing exams on campus or having them proctored by something like a testing center at a college or university.

 

The university where I did my degree started out requiring proctoring at a local library but by the end I was able to do online proctoring (it did require a webcam and my taking the time to clear all books and papers out of the area near my computer).

 

[Night Elf]

The online classes ds tried were at the 4-yr university where he was also taking on campus classes. For midterm and final, he would h ave had to go to their main campus and take the tests at the testing center. 

 

To be honest, my goal for him is to get an associates degree either at a technical school or 2-yr college. The university he attended had many associates degree but they were at another campus. We could get there but it wouldn't be easy. I don't think he can handle getting a bachelor's degree. He needs to start off with a short term goal, one semester at a time.

 

I appreciate all the feedback about online classes. They have me considering them for myself. I'd love to finish my college degree. 

[Bootsie]

The situations for which I have seen online degrees work well are situations where a person is already involved in a field to some degree.  For a number of reasons, I don't think they work as well for people who do not know what career path they want or have some contact with the career already.  Interaction with professors and other students can spur interest (many students choose a major because they had some rapport with a professor in that field); professors write letters of recommendation; many students find jobs using the university career centers.  Those activities are more difficult in an online environment.   

[Kanin]

There are plenty of good online programs. My Master's is from Penn State, and they have both an online and in-person option. I could have gone to graduation, but I was out of town. My diploma doesn't say anything about the program being online, so I have a M.A. from Penn State, period, as far as anyone is concerned. The program was definitely challenging! I also loved doing online classes a LOT more than I thought I would. There was plenty of interaction through message boards, similar to this forum :-)

 

Once you actually have the degree, I don't think anyone investigates to see if the program was online or not. As long as the name of the college is not associated with anything negative (Phoenix, etc), an employer wouldn't think twice. 

[Kanin]

Maybe your son would be amenable to finding a part-time job - so he can do some work, and also do some writing. I have an English degree, and years ago I did a little copywriting. I found it to be reaaaaaaally boring... but I was easily able to get an entry-level job writing online. Your son could experience what it's like to really have an entry-level job.. and maybe he'll find he actually wants to get some qualifications after all.

[Catwoman]

Maybe your son would be amenable to finding a part-time job - so he can do some work, and also do some writing. I have an English degree, and years ago I did a little copywriting. I found it to be reaaaaaaally boring... but I was easily able to get an entry-level job writing online. Your son could experience what it's like to really have an entry-level job.. and maybe he'll find he actually wants to get some qualifications after all.

Your post reminded me of a thread a while back where someone mentioned that you can get part time writing jobs online. I’m hoping someone will be able to remember the name of the website because apparently it’s legitimate, albeit low-paying. If I recall correctly, he would start out at a low pay rate because he’s inexperienced and new, but his fees would increase as he got more experience and good ratings from the people who hire him through the website.

 

I was thinking that Beth’s son might be able to make a few dollars doing that while, at the same time, figuring out if the writing business is right for him. I was thinking that either he would love it and work hard at it until he got enough experience under his belt to apply for a better writing job (or until he developed the discipline he will need if he wants to become a novelist,) and if he doesn’t enjoy it and it turns out that being a writer isn’t the way he’d dreamed it would be, he can discard that career option and move on to something else.

 

The best thing about it is that he could take online college classes at the same time he was trying the writing job. He could start with very general classes that would apply to almost any degree, so he wouldn’t be locked into a specific major right away.

[Crimson Wife]

 

I appreciate all the feedback about online classes. They have me considering them for myself. I'd love to finish my college degree. 

 

You should totally do it! I am so glad that I decided to go back to school in 2015 :)

 

[Kanin]

Your post reminded me of a thread a while back where someone mentioned that you can get part time writing jobs online. I’m hoping someone will be able to remember the name of the website because apparently it’s legitimate, albeit low-paying. If I recall correctly, he would start out at a low pay rate because he’s inexperienced and new, but his fees would increase as he got more experience and good ratings from the people who hire him through the website.

 

I was thinking that Beth’s son might be able to make a few dollars doing that while, at the same time, figuring out if the writing business is right for him. I was thinking that either he would love it and work hard at it until he got enough experience under his belt to apply for a better writing job (or until he developed the discipline he will need if he wants to become a novelist,) and if he doesn’t enjoy it and it turns out that being a writer isn’t the way he’d dreamed it would be, he can discard that career option and move on to something else.

 

The best thing about it is that he could take online college classes at the same time he was trying the writing job. He could start with very general classes that would apply to almost any degree, so he wouldn’t be locked into a specific major right away.

 

I wish I could remember the website... if I do, I'll report back. 

[Tsuga]

With school, he could do something with computers. 

 

Right now, he believes he can become a writer and make money with no experience other than standard English class assignments in high school. This is what I've got to get him away from. 

 

Well, it's not like it's never been done.

 

Does he write for six hours a day and send out something every week?

 

What I would suggest is that he actually take that on as a real job. Get up, make an outline of the day, write for 6 hours and commit to writing 1000 words per day and sending out one manuscript per week to an online editing group.

 

If he can do that for an entire year, and send out some self-determined set of writing, maybe he can become a writer.

 

And if he does that for a year with no success, he'll almost certainly fall into one of two categories:

 

1. Giving up because it's really hard, and wishing he'd chosen something else, or

 

2. Not giving up, and still believing in himself.

 

If the latter, you could point out that he might get at least a part-time job.

 

If he says "no I couldn't do that as a writer" then he doesn't really want to be a writer, he just wants to stay home and read and think, and that's called a "vacation". You earn it by going to work.

[Tsuga]

In order to get him a feel for what an online school would be like, see if you can get him into a community college online class. That way he could get some credits for minimal college expenses. My local community college has entire associate degree programs online. I would stay away from the for profit schools right now. They’re expensive and for where your dd is at it’s unnecessary to pay that expense.

 

I would not recommend taking classes for credit if the kid really doesn't want to be there. If the kid has resigned himself to going to college, fine, but the last thing you want is a low GPA borne out of a parentally-driven enrollment.

[3 ladybugs]

My mom graduated from University of Phoenix. She is in the position she is now because of that very expensive piece of paper she got from them (her degree). Now she was working at this company before she got her degree, but she still got promoted. It wasn't always easy either. She got her degree about 10 years ago (maybe less) and she was not fun for the several years she was studying. I know it was hard at times for her and she didn't always like her professors. However I see that as being true for any college. 

[Catwoman]

My mom graduated from University of Phoenix. She is in the position she is now because of that very expensive piece of paper she got from them (her degree). Now she was working at this company before she got her degree, but she still got promoted. It wasn't always easy either. She got her degree about 10 years ago (maybe less) and she was not fun for the several years she was studying. I know it was hard at times for her and she didn't always like her professors. However I see that as being true for any college.

Congratulations to your mom! :hurray:

[fairfarmhand]

Writer access is one place to start. He’ll learn a lot but it won’t be easy. I can tell you more if you’re interested. It is hard work.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ktgrok]

Yeah, if he only wants a few hours a day job, fiction writing isn't it, especially if he self publishes. Hours a day spent on marketing/publishing stuff on top of hours a day spent writing. Now, some people love it. I love it, lol. My problem is I have this passel of kids wanting me to teach and care for them :)

 

But yeah, the hard part is the butt in chair thing. Actually doing it. I have probably undiagnosed ADHD, and if I'm writing that means kids are leaving me alone, which is precious time that I could be reading/learning/etc. So I have to make deals with myself. I write for a set amount of words (200 or 250) and then get a short break to check in here, research whatever I'm currently researching (think Asperger's preserveration),Facebook, whatever. Then another sprint of writing, etc. Right now my daily word count goal is 1,000 words. But, that's no where near a fast enough pace to make a living on! That's "this is a fun side thing" pace. Those who write full time, that I know, write more like 3-4K a day. That's for genre fiction. Obviously if he's writing the next great american literary novel that pace will be different, but generally to make money you need to produce a few books a year. 

 

Also, if staying focused is an issue, there are apps for that :) Lots of writers use anti-social or freedom to block them for using the internet. I prefer anti-social as I can just block the websites I know are a distraction, like this forum, and still use google to research things for the book I'm working on. I also SWEAR by the app "Write or Die". I think you can try it out for free on their website? You set your word goal and time, and then start writing. If you slow down too much or stop for too long a "punishment" happens. You can pick which one...mine is an alarm goes off and a giant spider pops up and the screen turns red. When/if you hit your goal within the time frame a cute puppy pops up and happy music plays. I use it a LOT. I think you can also do word wars on their website, where you compete with someone to write the most words in a given time period. 

[catz]

Check your local CCs. My junior is dual enrolled at a local CC that has a number of 2 year programs that can be completed entirely online. My DS is doing most of his classes online because scheduling for us is a challenge. Testing has been either open book or online proctored from home. Our CC also has services and support available that wouldn’t be for a more remote option.

 

There are also some life skills college type programs for out of the box young adults available here. That may be something to look into. We also have a local literary center that is great for emerging writers. Although maybe something like tech writing might be more his speed if he’s not willing to network and not an avid reader?

 

My oldest has some 2E/asynchronous tendencies and it doesn’t seem out of line to me to give him a set of choices that allow him to move toward independence while he is living with you. It sounds like he needs supports to execute a plan stepwise. I dont think it’s unusual for a smart young adult to get bored stocking a grocery store. I also think it’s fine to say you need to be working full time, schooling full time, or split the time. Especially if it’s clear this writing plan is going no where.

[KungFuPanda]

I have friends who have written a few books that are available on Amazon. None of them support themselves this way. One’s an English professor and one’s a technical writer. The writing doesn’t remotely replace their day jobs.

[BlsdMama]

The online classes ds tried were at the 4-yr university where he was also taking on campus classes. For midterm and final, he would h ave had to go to their main campus and take the tests at the testing center. 

 

To be honest, my goal for him is to get an associates degree either at a technical school or 2-yr college. The university he attended had many associates degree but they were at another campus. We could get there but it wouldn't be easy. I don't think he can handle getting a bachelor's degree. He needs to start off with a short term goal, one semester at a time.

 

I appreciate all the feedback about online classes. They have me considering them for myself. I'd love to finish my college degree. 

 

 

So, working this out, based on all the comments.

 

It looks like you can avoid the online "stigma" by having him get an online AA from a local CC.

I was also reading this morning that a good way to get "buy-in" from an Aspie is to sign a contract.  In other words, you agree to support (or help support) him currently as long as he is attending online school and getting satisfactory grades.  Sign the contract.  Aspies generally like rules and will abide by them if they signed it.  

The other thing to consider that I found telling is that you doubt the people he worked with even knew he was an Aspie.  That makes me think disability might be a long shot for you?  And, I can't imagine you want a 20 something in the house with neither a job nor working towards one if he is totally capable of holding a job or successfully going to school.  DD (14) is an aspie.  We're getting her officially diagnosed this spring.  The appt. has been made for months.  And, obviously there is a huge range of abilities, but DD does get anxious and is "in her head" a lot.  The busier I can keep her head and mind, it seems like the better she functions?  

 

Do you think the contract thing would help him buy into the idea of doing this?  And if you know he can do it successfully then it might be worthwhile to require it?  

[Night Elf]

So, working this out, based on all the comments.

 

It looks like you can avoid the online "stigma" by having him get an online AA from a local CC.

I was also reading this morning that a good way to get "buy-in" from an Aspie is to sign a contract.  In other words, you agree to support (or help support) him currently as long as he is attending online school and getting satisfactory grades.  Sign the contract.  Aspies generally like rules and will abide by them if they signed it.  

The other thing to consider that I found telling is that you doubt the people he worked with even knew he was an Aspie.  That makes me think disability might be a long shot for you?  And, I can't imagine you want a 20 something in the house with neither a job nor working towards one if he is totally capable of holding a job or successfully going to school.  DD (14) is an aspie.  We're getting her officially diagnosed this spring.  The appt. has been made for months.  And, obviously there is a huge range of abilities, but DD does get anxious and is "in her head" a lot.  The busier I can keep her head and mind, it seems like the better she functions?  

 

Do you think the contract thing would help him buy into the idea of doing this?  And if you know he can do it successfully then it might be worthwhile to require it?  

 

He is very much a rules oriented guy. I don't know about a contract. He'll feel pressured and may resent us. The only thing we've agreed to is to give him a few months to see where he is with his ideas. 

 

He once told me that grocery store stocking was better than going to school so I don't know if he'll agree to go back to school soon. I'm hoping that when he realizes how difficult writing really is, he'll start looking at careers that require an education. There are some good programs at our technical school. I tried explaining to him that those classes will be easy compared to what he took in college. I don't know why he isn't more interested in tech school. I also like the idea of an online AA degree. I've got a school in mind. I'm looking up information and have created a folder with bookmarks of stuff we can look at together when he's ready.

[Andromeda]

Here's something I didn't see mentioned in relation to online classes, in addition to having to spend about 10-20 hours per week per course reading and writing.

 

The instructor often has no way of knowing that a student is struggling - until it is quite far into the course.

 

The student has to reach to the instructor with questions - either privately or on class boards, and keep asking for clarification until he understands. This is very hard for students because they think they are a)bothering the professor (not true!) and/or b)are stupid because obviously they should have gotten it already (also not true!).

 

I teach online, and I make sure to tell my students to ask tons of questions, and they still don't... until their low grades start piling up. At that point they may drop the course, stop attending, or (rarely) start asking questions.

 

This can be even harder for Aspie students because they have to work extra hard to communicate with others.

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by RosemaryAndThyme

[Bootsie]

He is very much a rules oriented guy. I don't know about a contract. He'll feel pressured and may resent us. The only thing we've agreed to is to give him a few months to see where he is with his ideas. 

 

He once told me that grocery store stocking was better than going to school so I don't know if he'll agree to go back to school soon. I'm hoping that when he realizes how difficult writing really is, he'll start looking at careers that require an education. There are some good programs at our technical school. I tried explaining to him that those classes will be easy compared to what he took in college. I don't know why he isn't more interested in tech school. I also like the idea of an online AA degree. I've got a school in mind. I'm looking up information and have created a folder with bookmarks of stuff we can look at together when he's ready.

I would not encourage a person who does not like school to go to school without some concrete career and skills attainment in mind.  Signing up for classes will not guarantee a degree and a degree will not necessarily lead to a job--especially if the student is a half-hearted student and ends up with a spotty record.  

 

Are there certain types of jobs you can see him doing?  Are there any jobs he can see himself doing?  If he has mentioned writing, what about that appeals to him?  The creativity? Story-telling?  Working on a project?  I would try focusing on what type of tasks he would like to do for a job and then determine if that type of job would require further education.

[Catwoman]

He is very much a rules oriented guy. I don't know about a contract. He'll feel pressured and may resent us. The only thing we've agreed to is to give him a few months to see where he is with his ideas.

 

He once told me that grocery store stocking was better than going to school so I don't know if he'll agree to go back to school soon. I'm hoping that when he realizes how difficult writing really is, he'll start looking at careers that require an education. There are some good programs at our technical school. I tried explaining to him that those classes will be easy compared to what he took in college. I don't know why he isn't more interested in tech school. I also like the idea of an online AA degree. I've got a school in mind. I'm looking up information and have created a folder with bookmarks of stuff we can look at together when he's ready.

Are you sure he’s not just plain scared?

 

Could he be afraid of failure to the point where he is paralyzed and unable to even make the decision to try taking more college courses or going to technical school or applying for an interesting job? Could he be having the same issue with writing? Maybe he really wants to do it, but deep down he’s afraid he won’t be successful at it, so he talks about doing it instead of actually doing it?

 

He sounds very intelligent and is probably very capable, but if he doesn’t have the self-confidence to realize that he can accomplish the things he needs to do in order to achieve his goals, he may never even try to do those things.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Catwoman

[Night Elf]

I would not encourage a person who does not like school to go to school without some concrete career and skills attainment in mind.  Signing up for classes will not guarantee a degree and a degree will not necessarily lead to a job--especially if the student is a half-hearted student and ends up with a spotty record.  

 

Are there certain types of jobs you can see him doing?  Are there any jobs he can see himself doing?  If he has mentioned writing, what about that appeals to him?  The creativity? Story-telling?  Working on a project?  I would try focusing on what type of tasks he would like to do for a job and then determine if that type of job would require further education.

 

No, we have no plans to push him into school. We did that when he graduated high school and he took two classes fall semester and two spring semester and quit at the start of the next fall semester. What I'm doing is gathering information for when we're ready to discuss options. The problem is that an Aspie, especially my ds, does things in his own time. He's not progressing. He's sitting in his room watching videos. He stays up all night and sleeps all day because that's his preferred schedule. That's why his grocery stocking job was so good. It was an overnight position.

 

Honestly, he's chosen writing as his focus right now because he wants to work in his own time, not have a typical 9 to 5 job, and make money. He thinks writing is the solution. He's not especially gifted in writing. He is not a reader though he said he's willing to start reading more if he wants to write. 

 

He has no career interests. No jobs sound interesting. No major at the universities and technical schools sounds appealing to him. All I can hope is that by summer, he'll realize writing isn't easy and he needs to find something else. I'm preparing for that discussion on options. He may have second thoughts about school. It's possible. He's surprised us before.

[Night Elf]

Are you sure he’s not just plain scared?

 

Could he be afraid of failure to the point where he is paralyzed and unable to even make the decision to try taking more college courses or going to technical school or applying for an interesting job? Could he be having the same issue with writing? Maybe he really wants to do it, but deep down he’s afraid he won’t be successful at it, so he talks about doing it instead of actually doing it?

 

He sounds very intelligent and is probably very capable, but if he doesn’t have the self-confidence to realize that he can accomplish the things he needs to do in order to achieve his goals, he may never even try to do those things.

 

He doesn't seem scared. He was in counseling and his counselor said he has no motivation to do anything. His ideas of ways to make money are unrealistic. I honestly feel he wants to find a way to make money with very little effort. I hate to say he's lazy because I don't know how much his Aspergers diagnosis is playing into this. I thought counseling would help. I feel that was $600 down the drain. He didn't come out of it with anything positive. Even the counselor told me he had nothing left to offer ds until ds was ready to be realistic.

 

This is so hard!!

[Catwoman]

He doesn't seem scared. He was in counseling and his counselor said he has no motivation to do anything. His ideas of ways to make money are unrealistic. I honestly feel he wants to find a way to make money with very little effort. I hate to say he's lazy because I don't know how much his Aspergers diagnosis is playing into this. I thought counseling would help. I feel that was $600 down the drain. He didn't come out of it with anything positive. Even the counselor told me he had nothing left to offer ds until ds was ready to be realistic.

 

This is so hard!!

Do you think that allowing him to continue to do nothing at all for the next few months is going to change anything? I would think it would just reinforce his desire to keep doing nothing.

 

He quit his other job because he was bored, so maybe it’s time to tell him that he needs to get another job, and if he gets bored, he has to find another job before he quits again. It seems like you’re almost encouraging his tendency to be lazy because you keep giving him a pass due to his Aspbergers. Plenty of aspies graduate from college, and plenty of aspies have full time, demanding careers and they do just fine. Your son may or may not need extra help to reach that point, but right now he’s not even trying.

 

Even if his aspie tendencies are making things more difficult for him, you’re not really doing him any favors by letting him sit around and watch videos all day. I don’t know what the solution is, but I’m wondering if his attitude is the real problem here, and not his diagnosis. And maybe it’s also time for him to start living on a more similar timetable to the rest of the world. What time does he go to bed at night and what time does he get up?

Edited January 29, 2018 by Catwoman

[Night Elf]

Do you think that allowing him to continue to do nothing at all for the next few months is going to change anything? I would think it would just reinforce his desire to keep doing nothing.

 

He quit his other job because he was bored, so maybe it’s time to tell him that he needs to get another job, and if he gets bored, he has to find another job before he quits again. It seems like you’re almost encouraging his tendency to be lazy because you keep giving him a pass due to his Aspbergers. Plenty of aspies graduate from college, and plenty of aspies have full time, demanding careers and they do just fine. Your son may or may not need extra help to reach that point, but right now he’s not even trying.

 

Even if his aspie tendencies are making things more difficult for him, you’re not really doing him any favors by letting him sit around and watch videos all day. I don’t know what the solution is, but I’m wondering if his attitude is the real problem here, and not his diagnosis. And maybe it’s also time for him to start living on a more similar timetable to the rest of the world. What time does he go to bed at night and what time does he get up?

 

Believe me, I have talked to DH about this. But how do we make ds get out of the house and get a job when he's adamantly refusing to do so. He wants the chance to do it his own way. It's hard to know how to support him. We have a new Super Kroger opening in the spring. I told him he may want to consider that as there will be more jobs to choose from.

 

He goes to sleep at 7:30am and wakes up at 4:00pm. He's always been a night owl. His ideal job is an overnight position. Frankly, I don't care if he finds a job boring. It's a way to earn money. Then you come home and have leisure time to watch those videos. It's called working to live. Not everyone has the luxury of loving what they do. They just work for a paycheck. With no skills, he can't be picky. He doesn't touch type. He is uncomfortable on the phone. He doesn't want to work with customers. He wants a job where he can be by himself and do his own thing. Grocery store stocking was perfect!! I honestly think he'd still be there if he hadn't gotten a new manager who started demanding more of him. I'm going to suggest he tell his next job interview that he has Aspergers. Yes, he can do the job, but he can't go super fast for 7 hours. Heck, I don't even think I could do that.

[catz]

Do you think that allowing him to continue to do nothing at all for the next few months is going to change anything? I would think it would just reinforce his desire to keep doing nothing.

 

He quit his other job because he was bored, so maybe it’s time to tell him that he needs to get another job, and if he gets bored, he has to find another job before he quits again. It seems like you’re almost encouraging his tendency to be lazy because you keep giving him a pass due to his Aspbergers. Plenty of aspies graduate from college, and plenty of aspies have full time, demanding careers and they do just fine. Your son may or may not need extra help to reach that point, but right now he’s not even trying.

 

Even if his aspie tendencies are making things more difficult for him, you’re not really doing him any favors by letting him sit around and watch videos all day. I don’t know what the solution is, but I’m wondering if his attitude is the real problem here, and not his diagnosis. And maybe it’s also time for him to start living on a more similar timetable to the rest of the world. What time does he go to bed at night and what time does he get up?

:iagree:  My only other thought is do you think he may have undiagnosed anxiety or depression that might be hindering him?   I do think some young adults need some tough love to launch - aspie or not.   I do not think requiring him to have some sort of job is at all a stretch, and to find a new one before he switches.  Heck, if my 17 quirky year old wasn't neck deep in dual enrollment and busy extracurriculars, he'd be getting a job. 

[MedicMom]

I had a nice overnight job working at a home for disabled adults. You had to stay awake but could watch movies or read a book while they slept. Human interaction was minimal. I hated it, but that might be an option for him.

Edited January 29, 2018 by MedicMom

[Tsuga]

 

 

 The problem is that an Aspie, especially my ds, does things in his own time. He's not progressing.

 

You could look at that as a problem or you could look at it as a reason to change your entire way of relating to his occupational and educational development as he is an adult.

 

So he needs to be self-motivated.

 

That is not going to happen as long as he is fed, clothed, and entertained. Never. Think about it from his side. Right now, he doesn't have to work, study, or even plan. And he has no natural consequences from that.

 

The rational course of action is to keep this gig going on as long as he possibly can.

 

Take it from someone who has many ASD characteristics: it would be insane to give up a free home and lifestyle for work and poverty.

 

 

 

Even the counselor told me he had nothing left to offer ds until ds was ready to be realistic.

 

He is being realistic. He has everything and wants for nothing. He's not going to embrace the misery that is the life of an independent university student unless he has to.

 

Look at this from the perspective of an ultra-rational, selfish teenager.

 

What I Have

Food

Clothing

Shelter

Video Games

People to talk to who accept me even if they get angry

Free time and spending cash

 

What They Want Me to Have

More work

Eventually leading to worse shelter, clothing and food

Less free time

Less contact with the safe social sphere I have

 

I don't really see a way out of this by gentle cajoling, personally. I know a couple of young men in this situation and frankly, even girls haven't motivated them. One is 24 and one is 21 now. They both are firmly enjoying "what I have" and really don't want to go into the "what they want me to have" category.

 

Accepting that adulthood is hard, miserable at first, often lonely, and requires huge personal sacrifices, is a good start. 

 

Most people are heavily motivated by status (I can't live at my parents' house OMG) or wealth (I want to be rich so I need an education) or relationships (I neeeeeeed the opposite sex to be interested in me because I neeeed to be touched and loved). Some people are motivated by achievements, like scientific achievements, but unless you're in the top 1% you're unlikely to participate in groundbreaking research as a young adult.

 

People on the ASD spectrum have none of those motivations. Your son is being realistic for his own motivations.

 

In my opinion, if you want him to get out of the house you need to recognize that that is your goal, not his, and it doesn't even make sense as his goal.

 

For you to be realistic, you need to have a hard, uncompromising plan to require him to get a job to support himself. When he sees how crappy life is at minimum wage, he might be willing to take you up on an offer for tuition.

 

If he stays at home, I doubt anything will change, not because he's a bad person but just because he is living the dream and he'd be a fool to give it up voluntarily.

[Bootsie]

My cousin, who prefers a night schedule, worked the night shift at a funeral home during college.  He did have to drive the hearse occasionally, but it was a job with night hours and not much dealing with people.  

[Night Elf]

 

 

 

For you to be realistic, you need to have a hard, uncompromising plan to require him to get a job to support himself. When he sees how crappy life is at minimum wage, he might be willing to take you up on an offer for tuition.

 

 

 

BTDT. School was easy to pay for because he had a scholarship for tuition. We paid very little out of pocket. He knows if he goes back to school, we'll pay for it like we're paying for his sister.

 

He was in a union at Kroger and was making above minimum wage but the money meant nothing to him. He has very little need for money so all he was seeing while he was working was hard work for hardly anything.

 

DH and I have discussed this and all your points are good ones. We just feel we need to give him a chance to pursue his ideas so he can understand how they are unrealistic for him at this time in his life. If we make him get a menial job, he will resent it and feel he'll never get ahead because he wasn't given a chance to chase a dream. Ds knows about our 6-month check in. If nothing is happening, he'll have to either go to school or get a job. If he's progressing in anything at all, making some money with the promise of more to come, we'll let him continue trying. We're not meaning to be enablers but we do believe he should have some say in his life. I was told he might not be ready to make a full move towards self-support until mid 20's. He's academically smart but immature for his age. At least I think so. 

[Bootsie]

Believe me, I have talked to DH about this. But how do we make ds get out of the house and get a job when he's adamantly refusing to do so. He wants the chance to do it his own way. It's hard to know how to support him. We have a new Super Kroger opening in the spring. I told him he may want to consider that as there will be more jobs to choose from.

 

He goes to sleep at 7:30am and wakes up at 4:00pm. He's always been a night owl. His ideal job is an overnight position. Frankly, I don't care if he finds a job boring. It's a way to earn money. Then you come home and have leisure time to watch those videos. It's called working to live. Not everyone has the luxury of loving what they do. They just work for a paycheck. With no skills, he can't be picky. He doesn't touch type. He is uncomfortable on the phone. He doesn't want to work with customers. He wants a job where he can be by himself and do his own thing. Grocery store stocking was perfect!! I honestly think he'd still be there if he hadn't gotten a new manager who started demanding more of him. I'm going to suggest he tell his next job interview that he has Aspergers. Yes, he can do the job, but he can't go super fast for 7 hours. Heck, I don't even think I could do that.

To me, the bolded seems to be the real issue.  Very few employers are going to pay someone to do his own thing.  Having more skills does give one more choices, but seldom does it lead to choices of being by oneself and doing one's own thing.   

 

It sounds as if he is not highly motivated by long-range goals.  What would happen if he had to pay for the electricity to run his video games?  If he started seeing that simply living a life of leisure is not an option, he might be more motivated to work at some job.   

[ktgrok]

No, we have no plans to push him into school. We did that when he graduated high school and he took two classes fall semester and two spring semester and quit at the start of the next fall semester. What I'm doing is gathering information for when we're ready to discuss options. The problem is that an Aspie, especially my ds, does things in his own time. He's not progressing. He's sitting in his room watching videos. He stays up all night and sleeps all day because that's his preferred schedule. That's why his grocery stocking job was so good. It was an overnight position.

 

Honestly, he's chosen writing as his focus right now because he wants to work in his own time, not have a typical 9 to 5 job, and make money. He thinks writing is the solution. He's not especially gifted in writing. He is not a reader though he said he's willing to start reading more if he wants to write.

 

He has no career interests. No jobs sound interesting. No major at the universities and technical schools sounds appealing to him. All I can hope is that by summer, he'll realize writing isn't easy and he needs to find something else. I'm preparing for that discussion on options. He may have second thoughts about school. It's possible. He's surprised us before.

He sounds depressed. Is he seeing a counselor? Can you do a depression inventory with him or have your family doctor do one? He sounds a lot like my ds. Getting a volunteer job has made a huge difference for him. Helping someone other than himself has changed his life. He works at an bird of prey rehab. This birds may have saved him.

[ktgrok]

He doesn't seem scared. He was in counseling and his counselor said he has no motivation to do anything. His ideas of ways to make money are unrealistic. I honestly feel he wants to find a way to make money with very little effort. I hate to say he's lazy because I don't know how much his Aspergers diagnosis is playing into this. I thought counseling would help. I feel that was $600 down the drain. He didn't come out of it with anything positive. Even the counselor told me he had nothing left to offer ds until ds was ready to be realistic.

 

This is so hard!!

Did the counselor suggest he might be depressed? Lack of motivation is a huge huge huge symptom of depression. It doesn't have to look like sadness. It can be an lack of interest in every day things. How is his hygiene? How was his eating? Poor sleep habits, poor eating habits, poor hygiene, and a lack of interest in normal every day things are the hallmarks of depression.

[ktgrok]

I get it. Some ASPI kids just really are that slow to mature. But, he sounds very very isolated right now. That isn't mentally healthy. If he is in attending classes, and he isn't working a job, when does he ever interact with the outside world? That's where a volunteer position would come in. Something to get him out of the house, something to get him on a regular schedule. Something to get him out of his own head and thinking about Someone other than himself.

[Night Elf]

Did the counselor suggest he might be depressed? Lack of motivation is a huge huge huge symptom of depression. It doesn't have to look like sadness. It can be an lack of interest in every day things. How is his hygiene? How was his eating? Poor sleep habits, poor eating habits, poor hygiene, and a lack of interest in normal every day things are the hallmarks of depression.

 

He's on a low dose of medication for depression. When he first started taking it, things were bad. Now he seems perfectly okay. He's also on a medication to control his tics for his motor disorder.

 

He hasn't lost interest in what he's doing. He gets pleasure from watching videos and researching all kinds of things. He's like my DH. They like to know a little something about everything. He told me he's even enjoying researching how to become a writer. I just don't know if he's learning enough to actually pursue writing. I'm waiting for his Kindle to arrive so we can get him those books you recommended.

 

He's doing fine in all areas of his life. He has great hygiene, a good appetite, sleeps well, and enjoys our company in the evenings before we go to bed. In one of the inventories he did for his counselor, we discovered he had a high regard for family. He values us and considers us to be an extremely important part of his life.

 

I've seen him depressed. He's not expressing any of his previous symptoms.

[Tsuga]

BTDT. School was easy to pay for because he had a scholarship for tuition. We paid very little out of pocket. He knows if he goes back to school, we'll pay for it like we're paying for his sister.

 

He was in a union at Kroger and was making above minimum wage but the money meant nothing to him. He has very little need for money so all he was seeing while he was working was hard work for hardly anything.

 

I don't understand how that's possible.

 

If he has to pay rent, utilities, and food, how is work for nothing?

 

 

 

 

We're not meaning to be enablers but we do believe he should have some say in his life. I was told he might not be ready to make a full move towards self-support until mid 20's.

 

He has 100% say in his life. It's not like you created this whole "work to support yourself" thing. You didn't create the economy or higher education system. I understand that he may not be ready and why you are supporting him, but I think it's worth considering that while it might take him longer, he is still responsible for his own decisions.

 

He's 21 and these are his choices.

 

Here are his choices:

 

* Get a job or don't

* Study for a better future or don't

* Stay in a free home or pay for a home

* Stay with free utilities or pay for them

* Get free entertainment or pay for it

* Create relationships with other people or don't

* Work on a creative endeavor regularly or don't

 

You aren't making those choices. He is. Here are a lot of people's choices at that age:

 

* Work poverty-level wages or commute further and wait tables for less certain wages

* Live with a friend sleeping on a futon or live in an unsafe area

* Go to online school, night school, or day school and work nights (usually work is in a less safe area)

* Eat ramen or peanut butter and jelly

* Buy coffee or a video game

 

Those are choices my parents gave me. They were not awful choices. Not even close to awful. I was fine. I was on mom's health insurance and she tried to help a tiny bit with tuition as she could. If I'd been working full time and unable to pay rent even with 50 hours a week, she would have helped with rent.

 

What I'm saying is not that you're doing it wrong, but that he's making the rational choice given the space he has. He might develop other motivations, but he might not.

 

So I think you need to look at this as your issue, not really his. He's fine from his perspective.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Tsuga

[MedicMom]

I know that chronologically he’s 21, but for all practical purposes, he’s 16. It’s part of asperger’s. I think I would treat the situation as if he was 16.

[Night Elf]

 

So I think you need to look at this as your issue, not really his. He's fine from his perspective.

 

I don't know how to do that. Since the age of 3 when his symptoms developed, we've worked around his limitations. That's why we started homeschooling in the first place. We didn't feel letting him endure misery in a public school because everyone else did made any sense. Yes, he led a sheltered life. Everything we did, we did for him to help him become a better person. We believe we are still doing that.

 

He does pay for all his own food (except for soda which DH drinks as well), clothing, entertainment and medical expenses. All of that just doesn't amount to much. We have talked about him contributing to the household. We just don't know what is a fair amount for him to pay. 

 

DH and I are emailing right now and he's suggesting we give ds an exact date to re-examine his choices. I'm suggesting 6 months from the time he quit. I think that's plenty of time for him to see if his ideas can get off the ground. I'm not expecting him to be self-supportive so early though. I just want to see him making some type of money. 

 

My dd's boyfriend is thinking of a business of building computers and selling them. Ds can contribute money towards that for a split of the profits. The guy has tried to sell one locally but it didn't pan out so he's about to list it on eBay. Depending on his success, this might could be something ds can do on the side while he tries to write. We just don't know if there is a market for this service. It might be overdone already.

 

I believe in my son. He's extremely smart. He just doesn't understand the way the adult world works yet. We're trying to help him with that in baby steps. He's come a long way in the past couple of months from doing nothing to contributing around the house. He doesn't eat much at home but he can make a couple of things. DH is wanting to teach him how to broil chicken and steak, two of ds's acceptable at-home meals. 

 

I don't mean that he does nothing but watch videos, but he does do that a lot. I told him he needed to put much more effort into writing and he promised he would. That was 2 days ago. I need to check in with him but I can't do that every day. I don't want to be that mom who checks up on her kid every day. It's annoying. I have never done that with my daughters and I'm not going to start with my son. He has to have responsibility.

[Night Elf]

I know that chronologically he’s 21, but for all practical purposes, he’s 16. It’s part of asperger’s. I think I would treat the situation as if he was 16.

 

That's exactly it. He simply isn't going to do neuro-typical things no matter how much we would like for him to be that way. We're trying to find a way to help him where he's at and where he wants to be. He just can't look far into the future. It's just not in his nature to do that. He thinks like a teenager, like everything will always be okay and being an adult is so far away why bother with it. 

[desertstrawberry5]

 

NM

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by desertstrawberry5

[MedicMom]

That's exactly it. He simply isn't going to do neuro-typical things no matter how much we would like for him to be that way. We're trying to find a way to help him where he's at and where he wants to be. He just can't look far into the future. It's just not in his nature to do that. He thinks like a teenager, like everything will always be okay and being an adult is so far away why bother with it.

My sister has Asperger’s. At 25, she is finally ready for college. She’s pursuing an accounting degree, mostly online classes with some on campus, and just got invited to the honor society. But she’s about five years behind emotionally and psychologically, as is normal for Aspies, and my parents have recognized that. At 21, she was babysitting a little and doing chores around the house, but really she was on par with a sixteen year old. Last year she decided to go to college, researched the degree and is doing fantastic. She would have completely failed at 19 or 20 or 21.

[Crimson Wife]

 

He was in a union at Kroger and was making above minimum wage but the money meant nothing to him. He has very little need for money so all he was seeing while he was working was hard work for hardly anything.

 

The bolded is the issue and where you'll need to start making changes in order to increase his motivation.

 

I don't see being a night owl as an inherent problem. Some people naturally are and so long as they can find a job that fits their body's rhythms, it's fine.

 

[Bootsie]

I have a family member who seems to be going through much of the same thing.  He could spend months researching possibilities but that was very different than actually doing any of those things.  He would spend months researching be a vet, for example, with his mother hoping that would help him get motivated to go to college.  What has seemed to work in his case is much shorter term goals--often that has meant weekly goals.  Also, the goals had to be concrete--something like complete 3 job applications by Friday , write 500 words every day this week, cook dinner for the family twice this week.  For this young person, a six month goal would be way too much time to be motivating or for intervention and follow up. 

 

His mother told me that one of the things that helped her the most was when she started realizing that she couldn't expect him to be at the same place his older brother was at the same age, because emotionally he was more like a 16-year old than an early 20-something but that meant she shouldn't expect less from him than she would from a 16-year old.  She would not think it is acceptable for a 16 year old to not go to school or work.    

[Tsuga]

My comment is primarily on the expectations of the parents that somehow, although you have this person who is developmentally 16, and who has literally no reason to get out of bed (though he does, good for him!), they are going to somehow kick their own butt into gear and finish a CC class.

 

Developmentally whether you are 8 or 16 or 24 or 32, it doesn't matter: if you don't have anything motivating you to do something, you won't do it.

 

The motivation here is for Beth for her son to be independent. Accept his current work ethic as rational or not, natural or not, acceptable or not, it doesn't matter because that's where he is and he doesn't have strong motivation to change.

 

That's why I think pushing into a class without strong guardrails is a bad idea. If he's not ready until 26 then you just have to wait and work with your own expectations.

 

Does that make sense? I'm not saying "oh well he ought to be able to do this given the right motivations so you should just kick him out". It's more like, you should modify your expectations if you really think he can't deal with the natural consequences of his actions, because only the natural consequences will motivate him.

 

Work backwards from what is possible. It sounds like you believe that he may not be ready for college, adult responsibilities, and living independently until he's 26. So why try to push him now? Let him grow up if that's what he needs. If he's clean, helping out around the house and paying for utilities and food, perhaps renting his own room, that seems reasonable.

 

Or if you think he could do more, why isn't he? What are you changing about your behavior, to change that environment?

 

I just don't see him suddenly going to an online course and going "you know what, bowing down to the man and working as a wage slave for the next years while I live in relative poverty away from my family suddenly sounds like a great deal". That's just not going to happen.

 

[catz]

I believe in my son. He's extremely smart. He just doesn't understand the way the adult world works yet. We're trying to help him with that in baby steps. He's come a long way in the past couple of months from doing nothing to contributing around the house. He doesn't eat much at home but he can make a couple of things. DH is wanting to teach him how to broil chicken and steak, two of ds's acceptable at-home meals. 

 

I don't mean that he does nothing but watch videos, but he does do that a lot. I told him he needed to put much more effort into writing and he promised he would. That was 2 days ago. I need to check in with him but I can't do that every day. I don't want to be that mom who checks up on her kid every day. It's annoying. I have never done that with my daughters and I'm not going to start with my son. He has to have responsibility.

 

I don't know.  I think that checking in daily and helping with lists and executive function isn't really that unusual for parenting a 16 year old male.   At a minimum, if he were not working at all, I'd want his reading list, his writing, and "work time" accounted for that week.  I'd have him shooting for 30-40 hours a week at that.   I think young adults like this need that level of structure and accountability.   Especially if you are uncomfortable with him doing very little for months.   You can't make concessions like he is 16, but then not parent him like he's 16 and expect progress. 

 

Another thing you can do we have friends who've had hard to launch kids have done is charge their kids some small rent, and then keep that money for them later as a down payment on a condo or whatever when they're in a better position keeping some for expenses if that's helpful. 

 

 

 

 

His mother told me that one of the things that helped her the most was when she started realizing that she couldn't expect him to be at the same place his older brother was at the same age, because emotionally he was more like a 16-year old than an early 20-something but that meant she shouldn't expect less from him than she would from a 16-year old.  She would not think it is acceptable for a 16 year old to not go to school or work.    

That's actually a quote from jdahlquist.  But :iagree:  I think if you think of him as developmentally 16, having the same expectations on someone of that age is not unreasonable. 16 year olds would be in school or would go to work or both.  

 

Edited January 29, 2018 by WoolySocks

[freesia]

My ds got a job at 16 bc he wanted cash to do things. I am sure there are lots of things your ds does bc he doesn't want the consequences-not run into the street is one.

 

I think it is reasonable to ask him for utilities (to pay for his gaming) and a share of food. If he wants to take the next few months off (and yes give a firm date) then he funds it from his savings (and sure, save it to give him later if you want but don't tell him).

 

And I agree on the checking up on 16 year old boys. My ds17 had just gotten to the stage where I don't need to check. My dd 15 has been there for two years. You really can't equate executive functioning skills age by age with girls and boys. In my experience boys mature in spurts while girls are more stair step.

[City Mouse]

I have been watching too many Dr. Phil videos on YouTube lately, but I will try not to be too harsh.

 

Right now, he has no reason to change anything. His life is just the way he wants it. He sleeps all day, and he is awake all night when everyone else is sleeping, so there is no one to bug him. I can see giving him a few months to have some time to think, but not to spend his waking ours just goofing off. When my DD (diagnosed at 21) chose to leave school and did not have a jo, I expected her to do at least 4 hrs per day of chores/work around the house. Everyone has to contribute to a household in some way even if it is not a paid job.

 

I do think at some point you are good no to have to go all "Dr. Phil" on him and set up a contract with timelines. He might get mad at you, but who cares. Unless you want to be supporting him his entire life, you are gong to have to upset him. My DS15 gets mad almost every day when I sit beside him to make sure that he is doing school work instead of watching videos, but I do it anyway...even when I would much rather me doing almost anything else.