Laura Corin Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I like cats and could imagine having one if I could also build a catio with a litter tray. Do they inevitably sit on the kitchen counter though? I'm not too worried about germs in general, but cat bottoms on food preparation areas is a bit too much for me. Can they be trained about this one thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I pretend I know nothing. :leaving: The cat isn't around the kitchen during the day when the dog is here. I never see what kitty gets up to when I'm in bed. I'm assuming he goes exactly where he likes. I don't set up anything to deter him, but I suppose one could. I've tried deterrents for a previous dog and counters, but they failed. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I have one who does and one who never does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 We cannot seem to train our cats to do anything. Yes, sometimes they jump up on the counter in the Kitchen. We would prefer that they don't do that, but have not been successful in getting them to stop it. I am going to buy what I think are Mothballs (different word in Spanish) to put in certain areas to (hopefully) discourage the cats from those areas, but as I write this, I doubt that my wife would put Mothballs near the areas where she prepares food. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Some will some won't. Some can be trained not to if they do it in front of you and you are consistent in strongly discouraging the behavior (such as squirting with a water bottle) but they may only stay off when you are around. Depends on the cat. Cleaning the counters a lot is the order of the day here because I don't know what they are doing when I'm asleep. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I like cats and could imagine having one if I could also build a catio with a litter tray. Do they inevitably sit on the kitchen counter though? I'm not too worried about germs in general, but cat bottoms on food preparation areas is a bit too much for me. Can they be trained about this one thing? I'm not sure a cat could be trained about any one thing. My dd trained one of our cats to take a treat from her hand without biting her. Other than that, it's similar to trying to herd cats. The do whatever they like, and don't do what they don't like unless physically moved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Cats train you. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 maybe. Or you could just keep those antibacterial wipes around and wipe down the counter before putting food directly on it. i never put food directly on the counter, so I don't worry about it. I use a plate, cutting board, pan, etc. My cats have to get on the counter to cross from the kitchen to the living room if the baby gate is closed, so they do in that spot often. I've never seen them sitting on it anwhere else in the kitchen, nor do they just hang out up there. Actually, none of my cats have hung out on the kitchen counter. Now...my kitchen table...sigh. It's my fault. I fed them up there for a while in desperation to find somewhere the dog couldn't reach the cat food. Then figured out another spot thanks to the hive, but they were already used to hanging out there, Plus it's right by a sunny window. So....they hang out there where they can see their food dish, lay in the sun, are safe from the dogs, etc. Nothing I do keeps them off. Drives me batty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) My cat never sits on the counter or the table. Never ever. I don't know why. Edited January 27, 2018 by regentrude 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I have three cats. They do what they want. I clean a lot. :) My mother in law has a cat that never jumps anywhere she isn’t “supposed†to. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizzie in Ma Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I love cats. I have always had cats. One thing I know about cats is that they can be total a**holes. Yes, they get on the counters. In fact, I have one who invariably will get into whatever bowl or dish I have just gotten out to put food into. No, I have found no way to persuade them to do otherwise otherwise. That having been said, I will still always have cats. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rachel Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My sister’s cat growing up did not get on the counters. My inlaw’s last cat never did. We have two one year old cats that do, but only when I’m not in the room. They know not to go in my bedroom, they will wait right outside the open door, so I think they can learn boundaries. Them getting on the counters is driving me crazy. We have tried several tricks but none of them have deterred the cats. We do not have doors to close off our kitchen so we are going to get what is basically an invisible fence to keep them out. My husband only discovered them earlier this week so we haven’t yet decided which brand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I have had multiple cats forever. Mine all do get on the counters mostly because I have fed them up there at some point. We have dogs and so always had to put the cat food up where dogs can't reach. My mom has a cat that never gets on the counters. She has never fed her up there either, and whenever she has jumped on something she didn't want her on (the coffee table or something), Mom would spray her with a water bottle. I had one cat that would get right in front of my computer monitor and I trained him not to with a spray bottle. Oh, I would also add that I think having multiple pets makes them worse about getting on stuff because they naturally want to be up higher than the other animals at times. It makes them feel safer and it is also a hunter's advantage. Edited January 27, 2018 by VaKim 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I've had cats who regularly got on the counters and cats who never did. I never had any luck training a cat. Although I love them, the counter issue is one of several reasons I'll probably never have another one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I have four cats. I try to keep them off the counters, but they seem to take it as a challenge. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in VA Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Growing up none of our cats sat on the counters. I naively thought it was because we had "taught" them not to. It always appalled me to see cats walking around on other people's counters and I self-righteously thought they hadn't properly "trained" them. Hahahaha! Well I have been deservedly brought down from that notion. We have a cat who goes where she likes, when she likes. Counters, the top of the refrigerator, the top of any high surface - including the grandfather clock. She got on top of the clock by leaping from the sofa to the top of the bookcase, running along the valance (on wood frame) the length of the LARGE picture window and jumping on to the clock. Thankfully as she has gotten older she has given up the clock. We shoo her from the counter where we are preparing food but she likes to sit on the one across from that one. I think she likes the company because she doesn't really seem interested in any food but her own. I really think the answer to the original question is it all depends on the cat :001_smile: I do wonder if it has anything to do with being an indoor cat vs. outdoor cat. Growing up all of our cats were outdoor cats. I've wondered if they got their climbing out of their systems by climbing outdoors? Mary 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Our cats do not go on the counter or dining tables. Our first cat was barely an adult when he came to us, and we had to train him not to (a quick spray of water from a spray bottle) but he learned fairly quickly. I am fairly certain he didn't do it when we weren't around, simply because he was a terrible klutz and surely would have knocked things over or left some sort of evidence. He was allowed on end tables and coffee tables, etc. But not on the kitchen counter or eating table. Our current cat was ten years old when we got her, and luckily she already had no inclination. I am sure it would be more difficult or maybe impossible to train an older cat. I find the idea of cats on eating surfaces extremely unpalatable. My in-laws allowed their cat on their dining room table. Then they would shoo him off the tablecloth and put our silverware right where he had been sitting. When my dh had a compromised immune system, I would quietly fetch clean silverware from the kitchen and hand it to him without letting it touch the table. I'm sure the risk was in actuality quite minimal, but the yuck factor was high. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 This is my main reason for not wanting a cat. I like them, but the thought of them walking on my counters skeeves me out and I know that I can do nothing to stop them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I do wonder if it has anything to do with being an indoor cat vs. outdoor cat. Growing up all of our cats were outdoor cats. I've wondered if they got their climbing out of their systems by climbing outdoors? Mary My guess is that it does. Which is another reason I'll probably never have another one. I used to absolutely, staunchly believe that cats should be kept inside all the time. In recent years I've changed my mind totally about that, and have now come to believe that it's cruel to keep a cat inside its whole life. But at the same time -- I don't think I can bring myself to let a cat roam. Edited January 27, 2018 by Pawz4me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paige Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My cats almost never get on the counters. I don't know why, but they don't seem interested. You could set up a motion activated thing by the counter to discourage a cat when you're gone if it becomes a problem. My 2 remaining cats can be huge jerks but the counter is something we don't fight about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmaluv+2more Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I had one cat who never got on the counters. I don’t think I’m biased or exaggerating when I say that she was the best cat that ever lived, though, and I miss her terribly. Our 3 yr old cat and 6 month old cat both get on the counters. The older one knows enough to do it only when we aren’t around. The younger will do it right in front of my face. It drives me nuts. So I think they can be “trained†to outsmart you, but not eliminate the problem behavior 😉 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkie Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My cat jumped on the counter and stuck his nose in my coffee cup while I was reading this thread. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Cats are like living with two year olds. One needs to continually move them from counters and not just yell at them. Some folks give them a little spray with a water bottle . Eventually they mostly behave. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I’ve had 11 cats over my adulthood, and none of them have ever gone on the counter or dining room table. (ETA: They've tried, but have learned not to.)I don’t know if it’s been incredible luck or if I did train them. They’ve all been indoor cats.First—stay calm. If you crazy-yell at them and turn it into a marvelous, adrenaline inducing game, they’ll come back for more. A quiet and firm and shocked sounding, “No Kitty!†while you remove them from the counter can be a good start. A tone of absolute disgust and dismay seems to get through to them, especially if they’re used to hearing you use only baby-talk with them.After that, I go to plain water in a squirt bottle. I don’t chase the cat through the whole house, because then it becomes a game and a challenge, but I squirt them a few times while they dash from the room. There’s a balance between spraying them and making it uncomfortable vs spraying them and making it something that creates that adrenaline rush that they’ll seek out.Next, vinegar water. I’ve never gotten beyond the vinegar water point. After a few times of vinegar water, they’ve always stopped.But I’ve heard that the next step is double sided tape. It looks like a PP had luck with masking tape. If you’re consistent, the cat will finally realize that it’s no fun being on the counter and getting tape stuck all over him/her.Whenever you want a cat to stop a bad behavior, it is good to make sure they have somewhere to redirect the behavior. My cats are allowed on top of all the other furniture in the kitchen—they can be on the fridge, they can be on the kitchen table, they can be on the hutch. And, other than the diningoom table, they’re allowed on every other surface they want to be in the rest of the house, including 3 cat towers (I have 5 cats now.) Edited January 27, 2018 by Garga 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aura Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 We've used those carpet runners with the poky sides up to keep cats and dogs off various places, and it works, but only as long as it's actually in place. They know. (said in a creepy whisper) I actually think it really depends on the individual animals. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamaraby Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My cats are never on the counters or table that I’ve seen. What they do when I’m not around? Don’t know, but the dog’s not saying and my cats feel no need to stoop so low as to give an answer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 The way I trained one cat to stay off an area was to basically cover it with masking tape wrapped with the sticky side facing up. The masking tape isn’t strong enough to rip out fur, but it is enough they don’t like the feeling of it being stuck to their feet. I laid it out on a grid on the table (she kept scratching the wood on this particular jumping on and off as she wasn’t the world’s most coordinated cat.). It took a week or two, but it worked. I’ve heard of people doing the same basic thing with aluminum pie plates strung together on counters. I have two cats now. They both get on the dining table but aren’t bad about the kitchen (that I see). I’m not motivated enough at this point to spend two weeks with tape on my table. I just wipe the table down before meals, which I would do anyway because it doubles as the school table. But the tape does work if one is motivated. :) I'd urge extreme caution in saying that what worked for one cat, or even a few, will work for other cats and that the only factor is the human's motivation. ;) Even with dogs--who are MUCH more inclined to want to please people than cats--no one training method works for every single dog. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Some cats do, some cats don't. Oh, and we have a Lab. - the cat's dry food is in a dish in the far side of a large clear plastic container, lid on, and a opening for Kitty cut into the side. She can jump in, eat in peace, and leave knowing Captain can not get to her food. I remove lid to refill bowl. Edited January 27, 2018 by JFSinIL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Most cats I have had do not jump on the counters - only 1-2 did, do it's not inevitable. But for the ones that do, yes, it's trainable out of them (the sticky tape method works, as does keeping their food and water bowls off the counters), and can be easily discouraged by keeping launching pads out of sight (chairs pushed in at the table, large boxes kept away from the counter). Keeping the launching pads inaccessible was most successful with the 2 climbers I had. Edited January 27, 2018 by reefgazer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I find the idea of cats on eating surfaces extremely unpalatable. My in-laws allowed their cat on their dining room table. Then they would shoo him off the tablecloth and put our silverware right where he had been sitting. When my dh had a compromised immune system, I would quietly fetch clean silverware from the kitchen and hand it to him without letting it touch the table. I'm sure the risk was in actuality quite minimal, but the yuck factor was high. I agree it is yucky. Even though I cannot seem to get my cats to stop doing it. But I do you wipe it down with an antibacterial wipes every time I serve food on the table. Usually just the kids eat at that table, but still I'm not gonna let them eat on it when it might have who knows what kind of germs on it. Mainly I worry about germs from the litter box being tracked on you it from the cats feet. So a quick wipe with an antibacterial white to get any cat hair or germs and then they can eat. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 5 cats in my lifetime, maybe 15 years of ownership, collectively. The only times I've seen any of my cats on a counter or table have been when I've accidentally left something particularly enticing there. I can't speak for what they do when I'm not around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I agree it is yucky. Even though I cannot seem to get my cats to stop doing it. But I do you wipe it down with an antibacterial wipes every time I serve food on the table. Usually just the kids eat at that table, but still I'm not gonna let them eat on it when it might have who knows what kind of germs on it. Mainly I worry about germs from the litter box being tracked on you it from the cats feet. So a quick wipe with an antibacterial white to get any cat hair or germs and then they can eat. I don't want cats on my table at home, but I would be okay with this solution as a guest. It was the tablecloth thing that made it so awful -- you can't wipe down a tablecloth! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I would provide them with a higher perch where they can see. then the counters are less appealing. my friend has a number of cat perches around her condo - including the tallest next to a window with a bird feeder on the other side. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homemommy83 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My cat jumped on the counter and stuck his nose in my coffee cup while I was reading this thread. LOL!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleEJ Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My cats are often on the counter and the dining table. It doesn't really bother me, and DH is slowly getting over it. My kitchen has three main counter tops, a bar with the sink, an island, and the run by the stove top. I don't mind them on the bar area as much because I rarely prep food there. But I try to discourage them on the other two areas. And I definitely run them off if I am actively cooking. I just wipe the counters and table down often and I am not at all a germaphobe. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 cats are pretty fastidious; I'd bet they spread less germs than many people..... I think you have to accept them as they are. I don't believe in spraying cats. Provide alternatives or just deal with it.I lucked out into a super duper lazy cat who could only get up on our counters if a child left a chair nearby. Tables were fair game though (because of the chairs) and for a while she slept in our napkin basket because it was right under a spot light which we discovered was like a heat lamp for her. Once I got her an electric heated bed, she preferred that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebcoola Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Neither of our cats have ever been on the counters. One has hopped on the table a couple of times but we shoo'd her off and she seemed happy enough to stay away. She is always on our school table but I don't care since we don't eat there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I would provide them with a higher perch where they can see. then the counters are less appealing. Our cat who was the worst about getting on the counters mostly just wanted up there so she could then launch on top of the cabinets (which were obviously open at the top). So it was pretty much impossible to provide her with an alternative that was higher than that. :lol: I can't believe some of you have been lucky enough to have been able to prevent cats getting on counters simply by removing chairs or other launching pads. With the exception of big, heavy boned cats like Maine Coons, I've never in my life met a non-elderly, non-disabled, not obese cat who needed a launching pad to get on a counter! Our last cat could easily jump from the floor to the top of the refrigerator. She was doing that up until a couple of months before she died from lymphoma at 14. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My current cat is smalller than other cats I have had. He is not physically able to got on the counter or table unless a chair or something is left out. He does climb but he has to have objects at the correct spacing for him to get up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I've have many cats over the years. Some get on counters and tables and some don't. I've never been able to figure out if it's a personality thing or something else. I haven't had one that just likes to sit on counters though. They usually walk around and explore, then when I catch them I clap my hands and they jump down. Cats don't seem to understand that you never want them to be somewhere like a counter or table. They think you just don't want them there at this time. :laugh: Like ktgrok, I don't prepare food directly on the counter but I don't want them up there anyway. Currently I have one who doesn't care about tables or counters and one who likes to check them out now and then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Only thing my counter jumper is really interested in is the sink/faucet. He loves to get into the sink and drink out of the faucet. I'm just glad he can't figure out how to turn it on! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootAnn Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 We try to actively discourage our current cat from getting on the table & counter with a spritz from the spray bottle or a firm, "NO" and removing them (depending on the person). We also attempt to keep him from getting up there while we aren't in the area by putting him in the basement (which is a living/schooling area and where his food & litter box is) when we are out of the house and at night. He still does try, though. He IS trainable. He's very smart. He simply doesn't want to stop getting on the counter. (He loves to get up on the counter to steal the container of bread. I need a bread box or something.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdj2027 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I have never seen our cat on the counter, the furniture other than out bed or the window sill even though I have seen her scale an 8 foot fence. On the other hand, I had a stray walk right into my kitchen the other day and hop on the counter staring at me in a most accusing manner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Peregrine Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Cats are kind of gross and germ-covered anyway. I've seen one of my cats lick the butt of the other. Then my kids kiss their face and I need to go to my happy place and not think about it. I don't know if they get on the table at night(probably) but if I see it I yell and smack the table. They know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I think they are pretty clean normally, but they step in the litter box, then step on my counter, that can't be sanitary, lol. But...yeah, they still do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama25angels Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I can't even get my cat to stop using me as his scratching post, let alone keep him off the counters and table. His brother, whom we had to re home, would just look at you when you sprayed him with water, I swear he was laughing. Mine doesn't get on the counter much but he does get up there from time to time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I have never seen our cat on the counter, the furniture other than out bed or the window sill even though I have seen her scale an 8 foot fence. On the other hand, I had a stray walk right into my kitchen the other day and hop on the counter staring at me in a most accusing manner. I had a cat for 11 years and only saw him on the counter once or twice when he was a kitten. Now my new one is another story! He is the most determined creature--just unstoppable. He even opens up cupboard doors while he's up there and climbed. Once I discovered he'd hopped on top of the range hood and climbed into the cupboard above the hood. Munched an a package of Hawaiian Rolls. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Some will some won't. Some can be trained not to if they do it in front of you and you are consistent in strongly discouraging the behavior (such as squirting with a water bottle) but they may only stay off when you are around. Depends on the cat. Cleaning the counters a lot is the order of the day here because I don't know what they are doing when I'm asleep. I have a black, glass cooktop so I do know what one of them is doing while I am sleeping because he leaves footprints. I do clean counters a lot. Our female never gets on the counters, but I have always done schoolwork at the kitchen table and she will jump up there. Ever since we brought her home, she hates to be left out of paperwork. She jumps up, lies down with her paw under her chin and stares at you. Then, if you let her stay, she slowly inches forward until her other paw is resting on your paper. She has a lovely, charming face and she knows it. I change the tablecloth before dinner. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I have a black, glass cooktop so I do know what one of them is doing while I am sleeping because he leaves footprints. I do clean counters a lot. Our female never gets on the counters, but I have always done schoolwork at the kitchen table and she will jump up there. Ever since we brought her home, she hates to be left out of paperwork. She jumps up, lies down with her paw under her chin and stares at you. Then, if you let her stay, she slowly inches forward until her other paw is resting on your paper. She has a lovely, charming face and she knows it. I change the tablecloth before dinner. LOL. Yep the charmers know how to charm. :) I started setting up a chair right next to me with all kinds of interesting papers for one of our cats to lay on, paw at, chew on, and generally make a mess of so she would leave the school stuff alone. It mostly works. Mostly. :laugh: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 My cat is old. Sometimes she can make it to the table (which I don’t worry about because I clean it all time) but she can’t get up on the counters. They are too high. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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