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Anybody posted about the 13 siblings found chained in California home?


VaKim
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Who cares about the semantics? They still end up locked up, just in a psychiatric facility, and indefinitely rather than for a set term. And insanity pleas almost never work anyway.

 

and that they were trying to hide it from other people rather undermines their "insanity".  they knew it was wrong.   when the police came - the scrambled to unchain the three kids who were chained at the time - BEFORE the cops got in the house.

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and that they were trying to hide it from other people rather undermines their "insanity".  they knew it was wrong.   when the police came - the scrambled to unchain the three kids who were chained at the time - BEFORE the cops got in the house.

 

Paranoid delusions would result in hiding/deceptive/irrational behaviors. That factor does not negate the obvious mental illness.

 

I suspect there is little hope for recovery from their mental illness though.

 

This whole thing just makes me sad all around. It's so very difficult to break the cycle of abuse.

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This thread is so deep so this may be old news but I just heard that the abuse went beyond shackling (as if that wasn't enough) but it involved starving the children while taunting them with putting apple pies on the counter and allowing the kids to smell them but not eat them.

 

According to some news sources the kids (and the adult child?) did not know what a police officer was.

 

The most interesting part and perhaps the most important tool in the prosecution may be the journals the kids were allowed to keep. Early investigations have revealed detailed account of the abuse. This timeline of several people providing evidence should be enough for the parents to be sentenced to lifelong imprisonment.

 

What is so sad is that these children grew up with this abuse from day 1 and I cannot help but wonder how difficult it will be for them to acquire any sense of what is considered "normal," to change their frame of reference and begin to actually perceive choices and consequences, boundaries and sense of self. 

 

We can only pray for top notch trauma counselors to make their services available for years to come. Just listening to one news report about some of the details is enough to curb my appetite for the rest of the day. 

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and that they were trying to hide it from other people rather undermines their "insanity".  they knew it was wrong.   when the police came - the scrambled to unchain the three kids who were chained at the time - BEFORE the cops got in the house.

 

 

Even more than that.  Mom and Dad knew to make them shiny and clean and pretty for pictures.  They knew what neatness and cleanliness was.  Can insane people do that? (Sincere question.)  Can they slap on one persona and switch it out for another on demand for their reputation?

 

If this will be a jury trial..........

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Even more than that.  Mom and Dad knew to make them shiny and clean and pretty for pictures.  They knew what neatness and cleanliness was.  Can insane people do that? (Sincere question.)  Can they slap on one persona and switch it out for another on demand for their reputation?

 

If this will be a jury trial..........

 

I think it's deeper than that.

 

Call me jaded, but after reading all sorts of "biblical" discipline books, my thought goes to the children weren't good enough.  They sinned too much.  They needed the punishment.  They needed to fast.  They needed to be chained to their beds so they didn't stray.  They couldn't have the toys.  They weren't good enough to earn them.  They couldn't have pie.  That was for IF they were good, and they fell short of perfection.  And during those special times when they were dressed well, and bathed, and fed, that is when a cross between parents being "nice" and them being "good enough" in their eyes.

 

The children could read/write, but didn't know what a policeman or medication was.  Even a passing glance through literature would explain those concepts.  But the bible doesn't.  I'd be willing to bet that their schooling came from one book.

 

Note - I don't think Christianity did this, but mentally ill people grasping at straws and direction.

 

 

Edited by HomeAgain
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I think it's deeper than that.

 

Call me jaded, but after reading all sorts of "biblical" discipline books, my thought goes to the children weren't good enough. They sinned too much. They needed the punishment. They needed to fast. They needed to be chained to their beds so they didn't stray. They couldn't have the toys. They weren't good enough to earn them. They couldn't have pie. That was for IF they were good, and they fell short of perfection. And during those special times when they were dressed well, and bathed, and fed, that is when a cross between parents being "nice" and them being "good enough" in their eyes.

 

The children could read/write, but didn't know what a policeman or medication was. Even a passing glance through literature would explain those concepts. But the bible doesn't. I'd be willing to bet that their schooling came from one book.

 

Note - I don't think Christianity did this, but mentally ill people grasping at straws and direction.

I can't square this with getting a vow renewal with Elvis in Vegas or going to Disney, even as isolated incidents. It doesn't follow with Bible-only fundamentalism.

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and that they were trying to hide it from other people rather undermines their "insanity".  they knew it was wrong. when the police came - the scrambled to unchain the three kids who were chained at the time - BEFORE the cops got in the house.

 

 

Even more than that.  Mom and Dad knew to make them shiny and clean and pretty for pictures.  They knew what neatness and cleanliness was.  Can insane people do that? (Sincere question.)  Can they slap on one persona and switch it out for another on demand for their reputation?

 

Possibly, depending on the mental illness. You might be aware that other people consider your actions irrational and seek to hide them, even if you can't stop doing whatever-it-is.

 

However, and this pulls back to the first quote, I believe that the legal system uses a different definition of "insanity", one which depends on not being able to cogently determine right from wrong. This definition predates our modern attempt at a scientific understanding of mental illness.

 

So, you might beat your kids because of PTSD, but the legal system might consider that since you knew it was wrong, it doesn't count.

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*wrong thread* 

 

I finally watched the whole 20/20 episode.  I found the segment on homeschooling just bizarre.  The Wolfpack kids were interesting....  was the father ever charged with anything?

Edited by umsami
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I read that today a judge issued an order that is in effect for three years- details:

The Turpin parents reportedly cannot bar their children from testifying in court, Ă¢â‚¬Å“must not harass, strike, threaten, molest, destroy belongings," or stalk the victims and can have no personal contact with them.

 

It specifically said they can only contact the kids through attorneys or investigators. But what I don't get is that they're i jail- how could they possibly do some of the above, like hit, molest, or destroy belongings?

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I read that today a judge issued an order that is in effect for three years- details:

The Turpin parents reportedly cannot bar their children from testifying in court, Ă¢â‚¬Å“must not harass, strike, threaten, molest, destroy belongings," or stalk the victims and can have no personal contact with them.

 

It specifically said they can only contact the kids through attorneys or investigators. But what I don't get is that they're i jail- how could they possibly do some of the above, like hit, molest, or destroy belongings?

 

Possibly by manipulating others to do it for them?

 

 Maybe  they have enough control of their children to be able to get one child to do it for them?

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I read that today a judge issued an order that is in effect for three years- details:

The Turpin parents reportedly cannot bar their children from testifying in court, Ă¢â‚¬Å“must not harass, strike, threaten, molest, destroy belongings," or stalk the victims and can have no personal contact with them.

 

It specifically said they can only contact the kids through attorneys or investigators. But what I don't get is that they're i jail- how could they possibly do some of the above, like hit, molest, or destroy belongings?

 

 The order is written to take into the account that bail is set and may one day be posted, resulting in the release of the parents. This way they don't have to go back to the court and get a different restraining order if they are released on bail, this one is good for three years. When it expires, they can apply to have it extended. 

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Sounds like my off the wall guess about the parents taking them all tricked out alike to Vegas and Disney maybe being a publicity ploy was not so far off. Mom's brother reports that she talked about having her own big family reality show.

Edited by maize
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They are likely better off

Washington Post reported that dad's brother mentioned maybe taking them in but that he's under some suspicion himself as to what he might have known about the abuse. He's the president of a Christian college and wrote a book about the spiritual benefits of fasting.

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I read that today a judge issued an order that is in effect for three years- details:

The Turpin parents reportedly cannot bar their children from testifying in court, Ă¢â‚¬Å“must not harass, strike, threaten, molest, destroy belongings," or stalk the victims and can have no personal contact with them.

 

It specifically said they can only contact the kids through attorneys or investigators. But what I don't get is that they're i jail- how could they possibly do some of the above, like hit, molest, or destroy belongings?

 

I think there is concern that the kids might go to the prison to see them and be manipulated.

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I think it's deeper than that.

 

Call me jaded, but after reading all sorts of "biblical" discipline books, my thought goes to the children weren't good enough.  They sinned too much.  They needed the punishment.  They needed to fast.  They needed to be chained to their beds so they didn't stray.  They couldn't have the toys.  They weren't good enough to earn them.  They couldn't have pie.  That was for IF they were good, and they fell short of perfection.  And during those special times when they were dressed well, and bathed, and fed, that is when a cross between parents being "nice" and them being "good enough" in their eyes.

 

The children could read/write, but didn't know what a policeman or medication was.  Even a passing glance through literature would explain those concepts.  But the bible doesn't.  I'd be willing to bet that their schooling came from one book.

 

Note - I don't think Christianity did this, but mentally ill people grasping at straws and direction.

This was from an interview with the neighbor in Texas:

 

"Ashely says she remembers seeing religious material on the floors, 'stuff like preparing for Armageddon. It looked like a cult house, it was kind of scary.'"

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It's California. They might be working toward a "Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity" verdict. 

 

 

Some states have Ă¢â‚¬Å“Guilty But InsaneĂ¢â‚¬ or something similar when the person who commits the crime is crazy, but California offers Ă¢â‚¬Å“Not GuiltyĂ¢â‚¬ verdicts to crazy criminals. Yes, itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s insane. 

It's got a pretty tough criteria, though, I have heard.

It's not just 'I'm insane so I'm not guilty'.  It's got to be more like "I'm so insane that I didn't have any idea that this was wrong so I'm not guilty legally, but must be confined for public safety reasons" type proof.

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I can't square this with getting a vow renewal with Elvis in Vegas or going to Disney, even as isolated incidents. It doesn't follow with Bible-only fundamentalism.

The news story I read was about her sister. Who admittedly seems a bit odd. She basically said they were strict Christians but her sister had some kind of midlife crisis and if she didn't totally leave Christianity basically started sowing wild oats at 40. She started drinking, gambling, and her husband drove her across the state to meet with another man.

 

Seems really bizarre but makes sense in a bizarre way. She's gone from strict family to living her own strict life then for whatever reason thrown it all out the window and gone to the opposite extreme.

 

The abuse seems to have always been there on some level but for worse in more recent years.

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It's California. They might be working toward a "Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity" verdict. 

 

 

Some states have Ă¢â‚¬Å“Guilty But InsaneĂ¢â‚¬ or something similar when the person who commits the crime is crazy, but California offers Ă¢â‚¬Å“Not GuiltyĂ¢â‚¬ verdicts to crazy criminals. Yes, itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s insane. 

 

I believe all states have not guilty by reason of insanity but a number of states also have guilty but insane.  In those states where both exist, a not guilty by reason of insanity would normally be something I thought I was shooting a purple monster and we were on Venus and I am a Storm Trooper kind of delusion while guilty while insane would normally encompass people like paranoid schizophrenics who aren't totally unaware of surroundings or moral choices but are suffering delusions about people watching, listening, spying, etc.

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So Mr Turpin was a Virginia Tech Electrical Engineering grad and worked for Northrop Grumman...  

 

He's not dumb.  How in the world could he think what they were doing to their kids - even educationally, much less physically - was ok?  The educational part certainly didn't come from his past.  Wouldn't he at least want to see his sons follow in his footsteps even if he happened to be the "not for my daughter" type?  How did he hide it all from his co-workers?  Both hubby and I know at least a little bit about the families of our co-workers, including what the adult "kids"are doing.

 

He graduated from VT 3 years before hubby did and engineering there is definitely not an easy degree to get.  His yearbook pic seems so... normal.  Scarily normal.  

 

http://wset.com/news/local/man-accused-of-shackling-children-to-beds-graduated-from-virginia-tech

Edited by creekland
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So Mr Turpin was a Virginia Tech Electrical Engineering grad and worked for Northrop Grumman...

 

He's not dumb. How in the world could he think what they were doing to their kids - even educationally, much less physically - was ok? The educational part certainly didn't come from his past. Wouldn't he at least want to see his sons follow in his footsteps even if he happened to be the "not for my daughter" type? How did he hide it all from his co-workers? Both hubby and I know at least a little bit about the families of our co-workers, including what the adult "kids"are doing.

 

He graduated from VT 3 years before hubby did and engineering there is definitely not an easy degree to get. His yearbook pic seems so... normal. Scarily normal.

 

http://wset.com/news/local/man-accused-of-shackling-children-to-beds-graduated-from-virginia-tech

High IQ and mental illness are in no way mutually exclusive.

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High IQ and mental illness are in no way mutually exclusive.

 

It's not that which has me puzzled.  It's how he worked as an engineer in a large respected company and still had such a secret life.  Having 13 kids isn't easy to hide.  Most folks love talking about their kids and what they are doing from birth on.  Did he make up such stories for sharing in his work circle or was he reclusive and the odd one few knew much about?  Or something else?  What did he share during the inevitable chat times when everyone else is talking about their kids and/or wife and life?

 

I sometimes see high IQ with people skills issues at school.  It's relatively common.  But I've yet to see one of those lads or lasses end up with a large family - or maybe I just don't know about it...  Many have a hard time coming up with a significant other who sticks around for long.  Most aren't good with kids - and therefore don't want them (or many).  Even those still love to share what they are doing - good OR bad.

 

Maybe he did let his wife handle the kids for the most part and he had his own world he lived in just going along with the flow at home?

 

Just brainstorming how it could all fit the picture.

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It's not that which has me puzzled. It's how he worked as an engineer in a large respected company and still had such a secret life. Having 13 kids isn't easy to hide. Most folks love talking about their kids and what they are doing from birth on. Did he make up such stories for sharing in his work circle or was he reclusive and the odd one few knew much about? Or something else? What did he share during the inevitable chat times when everyone else is talking about their kids and/or wife and life?

 

I sometimes see high IQ with people skills issues at school. It's relatively common. But I've yet to see one of those lads or lasses end up with a large family - or maybe I just don't know about it... Many have a hard time coming up with a significant other who sticks around for long. Most aren't good with kids - and therefore don't want them (or many). Even those still love to share what they are doing - good OR bad.

 

Maybe he did let his wife handle the kids for the most part and he had his own world he lived in just going along with the flow at home?

 

Just brainstorming how it could all fit the picture.

I think this picture is more of a Picasso than a Norman Rockwell. None of it is normal or going to make sense in our frames of reference.

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It's not that which has me puzzled. It's how he worked as an engineer in a large respected company and still had such a secret life. Having 13 kids isn't easy to hide. Most folks love talking about their kids and what they are doing from birth on. Did he make up such stories for sharing in his work circle or was he reclusive and the odd one few knew much about? Or something else? What did he share during the inevitable chat times when everyone else is talking about their kids and/or wife and life?

 

I sometimes see high IQ with people skills issues at school. It's relatively common. But I've yet to see one of those lads or lasses end up with a large family - or maybe I just don't know about it... Many have a hard time coming up with a significant other who sticks around for long. Most aren't good with kids - and therefore don't want them (or many). Even those still love to share what they are doing - good OR bad.

 

Maybe he did let his wife handle the kids for the most part and he had his own world he lived in just going along with the flow at home?

 

Just brainstorming how it could all fit the picture.

I don't find it that odd that he could keep his work and private life separate. If a person wants to do that then they do. I think about my bil who likely would never share any personal information with the people he works with. Just like he has never talked about work with me. He's a private guy who only spends time with his family. He's likeable enough I imagine in a work setting but work stays at work and home stays at home.

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I know my husband got teased once or twice about having a large family. After that he clammed up at work and never even told people when we were expecting another baby.

 

I know some of my dad's co-workers made nasty jokes about his large family. He took the opposite tact and put a large poster sized family photo up on his wall.

 

These folks...who knows. Maybe he just made up stories.

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I think this picture is more of a Picasso than a Norman Rockwell. None of it is normal or going to make sense in our frames of reference.

 

Well, folks still try to make sense of Picasso... ;)

 

I don't find it that odd that he could keep his work and private life separate. If a person wants to do that then they do. I think about my bil who likely would never share any personal information with the people he works with. Just like he has never talked about work with me. He's a private guy who only spends time with his family. He's likeable enough I imagine in a work setting but work stays at work and home stays at home.

 

I'm sure that happens, but I've never encountered it IRL - hubby hasn't either.  We both know family guys/gals who mainly hang out with their family in their free time (and fit into that category ourselves), but work circles still share basics (and highs/lows, etc) wherever we've been.  Whenever someone new joins, the first thing that happens is "life" get shared.

 

I guess I expected his job to be a more reclusive one - the types of jobs many of those with less loved people skills tend to enjoy.  And of course, all he had to do was find that someone right for him to get away with whatever at home.

 

Of course, I don't know about the electrical engineering jobs at Northrup.  Perhaps some fit that profile.  That might be the most likely probability over a version of The Secret Life of Walter Mitty.  Maybe his job didn't have much group work associated with it - just tasks he submitted on his own.

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Dh works in a technical field. He's had a coworker who shared nothing. Absolutely nothing. Huge things happen in their lives and he had no clue. One day he just decided to retire at age 50 because he had been living modestly and had set aside one paycheck a month since he was 18. Boom. Gone. Haven't heard from him since and he lives a couple of miles away.

 

I do agree with Creekland. It's so difficult to comprehend how someone could work and interact with the world and have such a huge dark secret at home. I would imagine he smelled, too. His clothes can't have been hanging in the closet and not picked up the odor of the home. Did he have one clean room to himself?

I would not be at all surprised if the children were only allowed in parts of the house.

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To answer how he could keep things a secret - one of my closest friends in high school's father worked for a similar company (aerospace/defense contracting field) in electrical engineering in the 1990's.  Her dad spent more than 90% of his time in a locked room, working alone on classified projects.  He saw his manager every week or so and reported progress in meetings with his manager and some air force general. I'm not saying that's how it was for this guy, maybe he was in a cubicle farm and spent most of his time in meetings, but in that field it may very well be that once a year they got free tickets to Vegas or free tickets to Disneyland and otherwise never interacted with anyone in any personal sort of way.

 

Anyway, I only remember this because I went into college thinking I could never be an engineer because I couldn't tolerate being isolated all day (I'm a mild introvert, but isolation at that level isn't something I could do). It wasn't until I married DH that I realized how wrong I was - I think I would be very good at the sorts of engineering jobs he's had.

Edited by Katy
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Could you imagine being on the filming crew going into that house? I have to wonder if the relative knows what he is talking about. I find it hard to believe that someone who is chaining her kids to the furniture wants her life broadcast to the world.

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Could you imagine being on the filming crew going into that house? I have to wonder if the relative knows what he is talking about. I find it hard to believe that someone who is chaining her kids to the furniture wants her life broadcast to the world.

Maybe in her mind she was trying to keep them all there, together, and child-like. Maybe she wanted a big family for the reality show, but she just didn't have enough of them fast enough. So she kept them so she'd have her big perfect family when their time came. 

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Maybe in her mind she was trying to keep them all there, together, and child-like. Maybe she wanted a big family for the reality show, but she just didn't have enough of them fast enough. So she kept them so she'd have her big perfect family when their time came. 

 

This sounds plausible.  I'm sure she was going to take off the chains once they got the TV deal.

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To answer how he could keep things a secret - one of my closest friends in high school's father worked for a similar company (aerospace/defense contracting field) in electrical engineering in the 1990's.  Her dad spent more than 90% of his time ilocked room, working alone on classified projects. n a  He saw his manager every week or so and reported progress in meetings with his manager and some air force general. I'm not saying that's how it was for this guy, maybe he was in a cubicle farm and spent most of his time in meetings, but in that field it may very well be that once a year they got free tickets to Vegas or free tickets to Disneyland and otherwise never interacted with anyone in any personal sort of way.

 

Anyway, I only remember this because I went into college thinking I could never be an engineer because I couldn't tolerate being isolated all day (I'm a mild introvert, but isolation at that level isn't something I could do). It wasn't until I married DH that I realized how wrong I was - I think I would be very good at the sorts of engineering jobs he's had.

What I am hoping is that we find out what kind of job he had and even more importantly, what kind of clearance.  Since the foreclosures, bankruptcies, and other financial problems were long-standing and then the weird hook=ups , if what the sister says is true, all point to reasons his security clearance should not have been renewed even if the investigators hadn't become aware of the abuse and torture.  And if this guy is getting a pass, you can bet there are spies also getting a pass.  

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What I am hoping is that we find out what kind of job he had and even more importantly, what kind of clearance.  Since the foreclosures, bankruptcies, and other financial problems were long-standing and then the weird hook=ups , if what the sister says is true, all point to reasons his security clearance should not have been renewed even if the investigators hadn't become aware of the abuse and torture.  And if this guy is getting a pass, you can bet there are spies also getting a pass.  

 

:iagree:  If he had a recent security clearance somebody clearly isn't doing their job.

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:iagree:  If he had a recent security clearance somebody clearly isn't doing their job.

I know that there are different levels of security, but I have no idea the criteria for each level. Are there levels of security that don't consider bankruptcies and foreclosures? Would all the engineering jobs at his (now former)company require a security clearance? What do the various levels of security cleaarance entail?
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What I am hoping is that we find out what kind of job he had and even more importantly, what kind of clearance.  Since the foreclosures, bankruptcies, and other financial problems were long-standing and then the weird hook=ups , if what the sister says is true, all point to reasons his security clearance should not have been renewed even if the investigators hadn't become aware of the abuse and torture.  And if this guy is getting a pass, you can bet there are spies also getting a pass.  

 

I'm under the impression a lot of personal financial issues are less of a concern for security clearance jobs since the 2008 housing market crash.  I may or may not have a relative that was extremely worried about losing his clearance after being forced into a short sale on their home (divorce), but when he disclosed it he was told it was no longer a concern for security clearances. If they upheld the rule something approaching 20% of people would lose their clearances - at least back 7 years or so ago.  Then again perhaps this is more acceptable for people who already have and need to keep a clearance than for those who are applying for a new one.

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I know that there are different levels of security, but I have no idea the criteria for each level. Are there levels of security that don't consider bankruptcies and foreclosures? Would all the engineering jobs at his (now former)company require a security clearance? What do the various levels of security cleaarance entail?

 

There are levels.  I've no idea if he needed one for his job or not, or which level.  Since I'm at school I don't have much time to type out specifics, but this website seems to offer a bit:

 

http://gogovernment.org/how_to_apply/next_steps/security_clearance.php

 

Personally, when I was in the AF, mine was Top Secret so what I had for a check could have differed from his.  Mine checked out family, etc.  (I had no kids or hubby then.)

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I think there is concern that the kids might go to the prison to see them and be manipulated.

 

or them writing to them, etc.

they have bail set.  yes, it's a high bail - and the likelihood of them making bail is low, but there is still bail.    I think the concern was if they did manage to make bail.

 

then if the kids are in court at the same time as them.

 

I believe the judge was trying to cover all the bases so there wouldn't be unplanned surprises of contact down the road.

 

I just saw the article on BBC that at least one of the adult children had attended an elementary school (didnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t say public or private) at some point and one of the sons went to college. ThatĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s the first I had heard about that but I donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t read a ton of news. IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m glad the judge blocked contact at least.

 

she took him to the school, and sat outside while he was in class then immediately took him home.

apparently - he was doing really well and on the honor roll.

 

I don't find it that odd that he could keep his work and private life separate. If a person wants to do that then they do. I think about my bil who likely would never share any personal information with the people he works with. Just like he has never talked about work with me. He's a private guy who only spends time with his family. He's likeable enough I imagine in a work setting but work stays at work and home stays at home.

 

I don't.  it's not that hard.  plus - he worked in the defense industry.   when some of what you do, or your coworkers do, is classified - you don't talk because it can be easier to keep things separate and not say something you're not supposed to.

fil was at the pentagon - the topics of conversation at parties didnt' even discuss the weather becasue they didn't want to slip up and mention something related to weather they learned at work.

 

Dh works in a technical field. He's had a coworker who shared nothing. Absolutely nothing. Huge things happen in his life and dh had no clue. One day he just decided to retire at age 50 because he had been living modestly and had set aside one paycheck a month since he was 18. Boom. Gone. Haven't heard from him since and he lives a couple of miles away. 

 

I do agree with Creekland. It's so difficult to comprehend how someone could work and interact with the world and have such a huge dark secret at home. I would imagine he smelled, too. His clothes can't have been hanging in the closet and not picked up the odor of the home. Did he have one clean room to himself? 

 

at least in texas - they lived on a separate home on the property.

parts of the house in CA had to be clean - as you see her baby belly pic in front of the crib - the carpet is CLEAN.  what you can see of the room is clean.   but they used the toilet - the kids were chained/locked up and didn't get released "just becasue" they needed to relieve themselves.

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I'm under the impression a lot of personal financial issues are less of a concern for security clearance jobs since the 2008 housing market crash.  I may or may not have a relative that was extremely worried about losing his clearance after being forced into a short sale on their home (divorce), but when he disclosed it he was told it was no longer a concern for security clearances. If they upheld the rule something approaching 20% of people would lose their clearances - at least back 7 years or so ago.  Then again perhaps this is more acceptable for people who already have and need to keep a clearance than for those who are applying for a new one.

 

My daughter has within the last year filled out paperwork for a security clearance.  Not only did the ask about bankruptcies, foreclosures, etc,  but much more.  And she has a very low level of clearance. My dh, who has a higher clearance, gets an even more detailed look at him.  For him, it is re-examined every 5  years.  The clearances aren't the same across agencies, necessarily or even within an agency.  We were talking with a librarian of sorts who worked at Oak Ridge Nuclear Lab.  She was telling us how she had a L clearance but some of the stuff she was in charge of had other letter clearances.  When I worked as an Immigration Inspector and my dh was Active Duty USAF working on a missile- we could have had the same approximate level of clearance (I am fairly sure mine was lower, though) but even if we did, I didn't do investigations on my own that he might have liked and didn't give him names of BOLOs and he didn't give me any info except the basic levels that all the public could know. 

 

Believing on the face of it and not checking up is how we got Aldrich Ames and Robert Hannsen.    `

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Another recent case where some of the children (I believe adopted ones) were starved, but neighbors and schools reported the situation to CPS, yet the children were not removed, resulting in the death of a child. :( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5320767/Horrific-note-child-mom-starved-daughter-seen.html

Edited by IfIOnly
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I don't understand something: How can these orders be handed down before a trial; isn't there a presumption of innocence? I understand barring contact with the victim's until after trial, but I don't understand the three years thing until found guilty.

 

 

I read that today a judge issued an order that is in effect for three years- details:

The Turpin parents reportedly cannot bar their children from testifying in court, Ă¢â‚¬Å“must not harass, strike, threaten, molest, destroy belongings," or stalk the victims and can have no personal contact with them.

 

It specifically said they can only contact the kids through attorneys or investigators. But what I don't get is that they're i jail- how could they possibly do some of the above, like hit, molest, or destroy belongings?

Edited by reefgazer
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I don't understand something: How can these orders be handed down before a trial; isn't there a presumption of innocence?

 

 

I've never heard of a trial being required for a restraining order.

 

I don't know the legal requirements but a restraining order is not a sentence.

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I've never heard of a trial being required for a restraining order.

 

I don't know the legal requirements but a restraining order is not a sentence.

 

Yes this is the power of CPS and a judge when they choose to exercise it. This case we all agree it is a proper use. And also the parents are free to get an attorney and fight the restraining order but I think they will be too busy dealing with the criminal charges.

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This case could last a long time and, though unlikely, the Turpins could get out on bail. I think the judge is trying to preserve the integrity of the case (as well as protect the children).

Its not just that they could get out on bail. They could write to or contact the adult children, or ask them to visit them in jail in order to manipulate them.

 

The kids are so used to doing what they are told and to these people having complete power over their lives.

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Gah!

 

I was going through a bag of hand me down clothes from a friend and found a red t-shirt with a big white circle with "Thing 1" in it--just like the ones in the family photo.

 

It's from universal studios so I'm sure there are lots of them out there but...

 

totally freaked me out.

 

Nope not giving that one to one of my kids.

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Gah!

 

I was going through a bag of hand me down clothes from a friend and found a red t-shirt with a big white circle with "Thing 1" in it--just like the ones in the family photo.

 

It's from universal studios so I'm sure there are lots of them out there but...

 

totally freaked me out.

 

Nope not giving that one to one of my kids.

 

 

Oh Gag.  I don't blame you.  I had the same reaction when I read your post.  Ugh.

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I've never heard of a trial being required for a restraining order.

 

I don't know the legal requirements but a restraining order is not a sentence.

Normally you have a temporary restraining order than a trial for the permanent. I can't address whether this is a temporary or permanent.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

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