Anybody posted about the 13 siblings found chained in California home?

[Rosie_0801]

Yes, but that's true of many things. No one says, don't do annual physicals because you might get that one doctor that has an attitude and reports you for something bogus. Don't let your kid go to public school, because it only takes one teacher with an attitude to report you for something bogus. Don't go out in public ever because it only takes one person with an attitude to report you for something bogus. So if we don't say those things, why would we say, "don't have annual homeschool evaluations because it only takes one evaluator with an attitude to report you for something bogus"?

 

The difference is it is counter cultural to homeschool.

 

It may be just as legal as the other options, but they are not socially equal.

[prairiewindmomma]

Unless they don't. And even if they do those records can be used against you in other situations later on, and you can't defend yourself because a) they are the expert and b) they are confidential files you aren't allowed to read.

 

 

The system would work just fine if all members of it were honourable people, but there are a whole lot who aren't.

 

This. So much this.

 

As someone who has worked professionally with kids in the current foster care system, the system isn't currently caring well for the kids already in the system.  Case workers are overburdened, and cut corners. Some have personal agendas.

 

And, on a side note, even if you are homeschooling and you would like help from "the system", it is often onerous to get evaluations and additional services.  In two of the states I have lived in, one had to register the children as public school students because funding was tied so tightly to services.

[Rosie_0801]

Well, there would definitely be appeals options, of course, but I've personally seen CPS (or equivalent) guess wrongly in favor of the parents too many times locally - then add those reported in this thread and making news, etc.  I haven't seen it happen the other way.  I'm sure it does.  Nothing is perfect.  But I don't think it's common.

 

Ever tried to appeal? When I've tried with various organisations, I've been told I've been treated terribly but really it is my fault I didn't make them treat me properly.

 

I've seen socially accepted narrative beat actual evidence to the contrary many times. Phrases like "the child's best interest" and "fair trial" don't mean the same in legal situations to what they do in the vernacular.

[eternalsummer]

Ever tried to appeal? When I've tried with various organisations, I've been told I've been treated terribly but really it is my fault I didn't make them treat me properly.

 

I've seen socially accepted narrative beat actual evidence to the contrary many times. Phrases like "the child's best interest" and "fair trial" don't mean the same in legal situations to what they do in the vernacular.

 

 

Or even what they do in standard English!

[LMD]

Well, there would definitely be appeals options, of course, but I've personally seen CPS (or equivalent) guess wrongly in favor of the parents too many times locally - then add those reported in this thread and making news, etc. I haven't seen it happen the other way. I'm sure it does. Nothing is perfect. But I don't think it's common.

I've seen it go wrong. I've seen people get written apologies and procedural changes because of how wrong it went. Of course the letter did diddly squat to help the children recover from their trauma.

 

It's never going to be perfect but I am very wary of 'more government can fix it!' type of thinking. I just don't think it's at all true, but more than that, it is really a discussion about societal worldview and values.

[creekland]

Ever tried to appeal? When I've tried with various organisations, I've been told I've been treated terribly but really it is my fault I didn't make them treat me properly.

 

I've seen socially accepted narrative beat actual evidence to the contrary many times. Phrases like "the child's best interest" and "fair trial" don't mean the same in legal situations to what they do in the vernacular.

 

Rosie, I'm not ignoring you. I honestly can't comment on what goes on in your country as I have no first hand knowledge of it.  I only know what I see happening here.  I've seen a lot of bad parenting via the public school - some abuse too - and the only solution that sometimes works is to get the authorities involved.  It never works to ignore it.

[creekland]

I've seen it go wrong. I've seen people get written apologies and procedural changes because of how wrong it went. Of course the letter did diddly squat to help the children recover from their trauma.

 

It's never going to be perfect but I am very wary of 'more government can fix it!' type of thinking. I just don't think it's at all true, but more than that, it is really a discussion about societal worldview and values.

 

Again, different country so I don't know how your authorities or processes work, etc.

 

But here, so many parents only change their behavior when they MUST.  That can include kids getting to eat, etc.

 

The vast majority of parents are just fine regardless of the parenting style they use.  It's not their style that matters TBH.  But without intervention, so many kids would suffer even more.  It's really sad when you see it in person.

[LMD]

Again, different country so I don't know how your authorities or processes work, etc.

 

But here, so many parents only change their behavior when they MUST. That can include kids getting to eat, etc.

 

The vast majority of parents are just fine regardless of the parenting style they use. It's not their style that matters TBH. But without intervention, so many kids would suffer even more. It's really sad when you see it in person.

I agree with you.

I just think that the line between autonomous citizen parenting freely and state stepping in to protect abused children needs to be thick and blazingly clear.

[gardenmom5]

In all honesty, if the children lived like that all of their lives, they may not have been aware that there was anything wrong.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people in different abusive situations where the perception of reality is distorted by personal experience. Just having grown up in a home with an alcoholic parent, I had to learn what a "normal" home is like and had to learn healthy problem solving behaviors, etc. as an adult. I imagine abuse survivors may have even more to learn and much more severe damage to attempt to undo. 

 

this.  thank you.  I've tried to explain that to people.  children who grow up in abuse - think it's normal.  they think all those other kids at Disneyland live under the same rules.  they aren't allowed to talk to anyone outside the family without permission - so they are going to let mom or dad talk to the ride worker, or any other worker.    they think it's normal.

 

my grandmother was psychologically abusive.  I was out in public, I attended school, I went to other kids houses to play.  I could see some things  that were different, and I wondered why I couldn't have that in my own family.  but I was an adult before I really comprehended the little social interactions going on within our family that were *NOT NORMAL*.   those "little things" were are grooming behavior for abuse, and leave you open to other people who are bullies or abusive.

 

even these adults kids - were in barbaric conditions.

 

 

For me personally it's because of the way the news handle stories like this. They point to the fact that the garden was unkempt (the lawn looked like ours - maybe hadn't mowed in three weeks), there was rubbish piled up by the front door (there was a bit of scrunched up plastic that could have been police tape from the investigation), and "there were nappies stacked up in the window" (ummm. Yes two boxes of Unopened nappies on a cupboard seems normal). Now clearly the inside of the house was much worse than the outside.

 

While I feel like I do the best job I can providing for my kids physical and academic wellbeing, I'm untidy by nature. We have a farm. I feel like our lifestyle is beneficial to the kids (farm, animals, allowing the kids to be creative). but when I see reports that are so focussed on a very high standard of neat and tidy it does make me a bit paranoid.

 

I recall a thread where a member posted a photo of a house where the children had been seized by state authorities who said they'd never seen such horrid conditions.   the person who posted them said - outside the bathroom (which wasn't functional and was reminiscent of a sewage treatment plant that was broken), she didn't think it was that bad.

 

the rest of us were pointing out the many plates containing remnants of previous meals left lying about.  on the floor, on living room tables, etc., but worse, we were pointing out the feces on the floor, in the living room, in the kitchen, ground into carpet, etc.  she didn't see them.

I guess my point it, it's more than just a lumpy lawn that needs to be mowed.

 

The children wrote journals. Many journals.

 

Those are going to be damning.

 

The mother was 16 when she married her significantly older husband. Makes me wonder if she might be viewed as the first victim--one who then went on to victimize many others.

 

I'm not usually a revenge person, but I admit that a part of me really wishes these "parents" could be made to live for a year at least the way they forced their kids to live.

 

 

the other sister said there was abuse in their family - possibly from their father.   (based on the description. he wasn't named.).   that could leave a girl looking for an older male who would treat her the same way - partly because she thinks that's how a "loving" (I use that word lightly) man treats you.

 

but she's been out in the world - she has to have known it was wrong. she loses the excuse of being a weak child herself when she was 16.  or 20.

 

 

The whole thing is really horrific and in many ways very different than a lot of the other cases.  Super sadistic behavior but of a kind I haven't seen in this particular way.  Just like the extreme religiousity is not usually found in people who keep going to Vegas and doing Elvis wedding re-enactments.  Definite horrible abuse and like so many suspected- one case of lewd behavior.  I don't know if that means the baby was the mom's. 

 

And yeah- tough for all the investigators too.

 

I'm sure they're still investigating.

the neighbors south of fort worth - where they lived for 10 years - said they never saw the mom pregnant.

 

So no one is addressing how to deal with people going under the radar.  That's the problem.  People who severely abuse will go wherever they can be under the radar.  How do we stop that?

 

and there is no way to stop people going under the radar.  not even the Nazi's or stalin could stop people from going under the radar.  and no one wants to live under that type of control.  the more repressive the laws, the more people will go under the radar.

as Rosie said - this is for honorable people.  dishonorable people will find a way and it seems to be more a matter of luck or one brave person (frequently in the face of opposition) that outs them.

 

 

No, not at all. I started to edit to clarify, then figured nobody would pay attention to it anyway, lol. No, I am just stating the fact that no matter how many laws we make, enforcing them completely is just not humanly possible. Laws are good in that they keep honest men honest, as my daddy always said. But just realistically speaking, there will never be an end to these horrible things. There are already laws in place. 

 

this.  unless everyone is honorable - there will always be those looking for loopholes or to go underground.

 

 

Well, I am kind of in between. I think there should be some regulations/controls and these will stop a certain amount of abuse. But to completely eradicate all abuse you would have to have so many controls that it would seriously impact freedom. Obviously, there will be different ideas about the right amount of controls. But either extreme seems to me less than optimal.

 

this.  you simply can't stop it by outside control.

 

things that might help - better mental health care.  more support for helping people to be their best and honorable selves.

 

The difference is it is counter cultural to homeschool.

 

It may be just as legal as the other options, but they are not socially equal.

 

 

this.   I got dudeling into testing, and the lead dr was absolutely horrified I was trying to homeschool him.  she lumped all homeschoolers in that ultra-conservative-religious-extreme-not-actually-educating-potentially-abusive group.

I put him into our local school because of the services I could get for him.

[gardenmom5]

Rosie, I'm not ignoring you. I honestly can't comment on what goes on in your country as I have no first hand knowledge of it.  I only know what I see happening here.  I've seen a lot of bad parenting via the public school - some abuse too - and the only solution that sometimes works is to get the authorities involved.  It never works to ignore it.

 

no one is advocating ignoring it.   what some of us are saying is - no matter what laws and regulations you have in place, no matter how onerous and repressive, there will be people who slip through the cracks.  unless you give the state 100% control (which I'm not), there are people who will find a way.   and then you're dealing with workers who are tired, overworked, angry, see so much bad- they start jumping at shadows because they can come to think every thing is bad.

[Laurie]

So no one is addressing how to deal with people going under the radar.  That's the problem.  People who severely abuse will go wherever they can be under the radar.  How do we stop that?

 

"If you see something say something."   

 

Forget about "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all."   

 

And as awful as this is to write, this case sounds more and more like the news stories about animal hoarders.   

The people who moved into their old house saw scratches and even vents put into closets and thought they had done this to animals...so that makes it NOT a bad thing because it was probably just animals??? 

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/abuse_neglect/facts/hoarding.html

[Xahm]

To my mind, one major benefit of having moderate, as opposed to no, regulation in place is that it can help keep things from getting horrible. No, of course a yearly portfolio review with the child present won't stop something as heinous as this case, but it can give a reality check to the mom who has been trusting in "better late than early" a little too long and may need to pursue evaluations, or the overly relaxed mom who needs to get more organized, or the stressed mom whose kids are actually doing well but not as well as she thinks they should be doing based on news reports of prodigy home schoolers. Ideally, this would also help struggling families find resources and community, reducing stress and thereby reducing the likelihood of an abusive situation arising. While most families can go through tough situations but keep things under control, for many families abuse can come out of living under difficult circumstances for a prolonged period. We can't do much to stop evil people bent on torture, but there's lots we can do to improve situations to avoid the more "typical" kinds of abuse.

[Innisfree]

I said in the other thread that I can see both sides of the argument over more regulation. The thing is... While I'd be willing to deal with more regulation than we currently have in Virginia, even if I was grumpy when it came to review time....

 

I tend to think the best way to prevent abuse is more long-term, easily-available mental health treatment. Just like I think it would help prevent shootings, even though I'd also be willing to see more sensible regulation there. Just like I think providing birth control and sex education do more to prevent abortions than outlawing abortion does.

 

Long-term education and treatment that gets to root causes would get my vote. Something that helped the mother in this family when she was fifteen, coming from a family which had experienced abuse, before she went off with David Turpin. I think that's when her abuse of her own children might have been prevented.

 

So, the agencies struggling to look after children now need support. Children and teens who are struggling need diagnosis and treatment. And so on.

 

Have I knocked down enough hornet's nests yet? ;-)

[Rosie_0801]

Rosie, I'm not ignoring you. I honestly can't comment on what goes on in your country as I have no first hand knowledge of it.  I only know what I see happening here.  I've seen a lot of bad parenting via the public school - some abuse too - and the only solution that sometimes works is to get the authorities involved.  It never works to ignore it.

 

Oh, I agree that it never works to ignore it. 

 

I am very aware of how strong the cult of the expert is and how much more damaging it can be than leaving well enough alone.

 

One of the pitfalls, I think, is deciding how abusive is too abusive and how abusive is okay abusive. Most forms of abuse are legal and need to stay legal.

[MinivanMom]

To my mind, one major benefit of having moderate, as opposed to no, regulation in place is that it can help keep things from getting horrible. No, of course a yearly portfolio review with the child present won't stop something as heinous as this case, but it can give a reality check to the mom who has been trusting in "better late than early" a little too long and may need to pursue evaluations, or the overly relaxed mom who needs to get more organized, or the stressed mom whose kids are actually doing well but not as well as she thinks they should be doing based on news reports of prodigy home schoolers. Ideally, this would also help struggling families find resources and community, reducing stress and thereby reducing the likelihood of an abusive situation arising. While most families can go through tough situations but keep things under control, for many families abuse can come out of living under difficult circumstances for a prolonged period. We can't do much to stop evil people bent on torture, but there's lots we can do to improve situations to avoid the more "typical" kinds of abuse.

 

This.

 

As someone in a high-regulation state, I have seen our regulations help. I have seen parents, who were ready to yank their kids over the bus stop being moved 100 feet, pause and reconsider when they found out they had to go online and register with the dept of education. I have seen multiple families make huge changes to their homeschooling approach or their curriculum choices when those standardized test scores came back lower than expected. I know one mother, who was depressed and overwhelmed, who was able to use those standardized test scores to convince her husband that it would be better for the kids to go to school. And, although it isn't the solution for every parent with mental illness, it has been a huge help to her to have that alone time during the day when her kids are gone to school.

 

And as I have seen these things over the years, I always have to wonder how it would have been different in a no-regulation state. Would the kids have been yanked because the bus stop was moved? Would the parents have ever figured out that their plan to let their elementary kids self-teach math wasn't going so well? Would my friend with depression still be struggling to homeschool? Would her mental health be getting worse? I do think our regulations help.

[HS Mom in NC]

We put radar everywhere.  That's what most of us in favor of radar are suggesting.  Those on this board shouldn't have problems at all.  Even if they get reported, reporters will investigate and close the case noting all is well - unless - it isn't.

 

 

You're not suggesting anything specific, you're relying on subtext when you say "put radar everywhere." That's a metaphor.  What will you do when people choose not to register as homeschoolers even though state laws require them to and to have someone enter their home?  What are you suggesting people do about that?  The not registering. Please, be every specific.  Mr. and Mrs. Jones have never sent their kids to an institutional school. They have never registered as homeschoolers in their state.  They are abusing their kids behind closed doors. They don't go out in public.  You are aware that's the situation we're talking about, right?  Now what do you think should be done to address that specific scenario?

Edited January 19, 2018 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Guinevere]

You're not suggesting anything specific, you're relying on subtext when say "put radar everywhere." That's a metaphor. What will you do when people choose not to register as homeschoolers even though state laws requires them to and to have someone enter their home? What are you suggesting people do about that? The not registering. Please, be every specific. Mr. and Mrs. Jones have never sent their kids to am institutional school. They have never registered as homeschoolers in their state. They are abusing their kids behind closed doors. They don't go out in public. You are aware that's the situation we're talking about, right? Now what do you think should be done to address that specific scenario?

And let's add that the children were homebirthed and don't have birth certificates, or social security numbers.

[HS Mom in NC]

When people talk about regulations in response to this family situation in CA, they're talking about regulations that prevent something like it (physical, mental, and spiritual abuse) from happening to children in other families.  Let's keep that in mind and not get distracted by states that mandatory test for reading and math scores so the space cadet homeschool moms can get a reality check.  Those are completely different situations.  The only regulation that matters in this discussion is the regulation that prevents the kind of abuse we're seeing.  Focus, people. Focus.

What will the actual regulation be?
Who will evaluate each situation?
How will the evaluation be done?
Who will be evaluated? (Just people with school aged kids?  What about people with preschoolers?)
Who will have the authority to remove the children?
Which government agency/ies will be responsible? 
How will that/those agency/ies get the funds it/they need/s to do this?
What will the appeals process be?

Edited January 19, 2018 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Alicia64]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but the mom had to have been in a hospital two years ago when she had her last.

 

Which hospital was it and didn't they see/notice anything?

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

And let's add that the children were homebirthed and don't have birth certificates, or social security numbers.

 

Oh, sorry. They were really off-the-radar.

 

Alley

[MinivanMom]

Well, I'm thinking of regulations that would get a child in with a doctor on a periodic basis.

 

For example, our state requires that all children entering school for the first time have a physical with a doctor. Originally, the law said that all children entering kindergarten must have a physical, but it was amended a few years ago so that all children entering school must have a physical. So now homeschoolers who make the switch to public school must have a physical regardless of the grade they are entering. It would be a pretty reasonable thing to amend that law again to require that all children have a physical when starting school whether they are entering public school, private school, or homeschool. 

 

Our state also requires that homeschoolers keep a copy of their immunization records (along w/attendance and standardized test scores) at their home. The dept of educ can come to your home and ask to see this paperwork. (In reality, they only come if there has been a complaint against a family - I've never met anyone who has had a visit.) I think it would be possible to amend that law to require that the parents also keep a record of their child's most recent physical (within the last year or last two years?) along with the immunization, attendance, and test records.

 

Another possibility would be to increase funding so that our state dept of nonpublic educ actually has the manpower to go out and visit each homeschooling family each year. Currently, they only go out if there has been a complaint. It would be a way to be sure the records are looked at regularly - though that would be more helpful if parents were required to have proof of a physical with a doctor rather than just immunization records, attendance, & test scores.

 

We do have an online database of all registered homeschooling families in our state, so if I saw the neighbor's emaciated kids digging through the trash, I can look online to see if they are really registered as homeschoolers. If I don't see them or have genuine concerns, I can click on the button to file a complaint with the Dept of Educ. Of course calling CPS is also a possibility, but people are often more reluctant to do that. I'm having a hard time imagining how a homeschooling family could "go underground" or just not register since the information is so centralized and public. I've never heard of a family not registering, but abusive homeschooling families who don't register probably aren't coming out to park day.

Edited January 19, 2018 by MinivanMom

[Corraleno]

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but the mom had to have been in a hospital two years ago when she had her last.

 

Which hospital was it and didn't they see/notice anything?

 

Alley

It could have been a home birth. And even if it was in the hospital, there's no reason why the other kids would have been seen there. The mother is not super thin or malnourished looking, so there's no reason that would have raised red flags even if she was in the hospital.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Corraleno

[Alicia64]

I've been silent on this thread and reading it with concern due to the judgment about the kids' sizes.

 

I have a child who will be turning 15 this year who weighs 80 pounds soaking wet and still hasn't hit puberty. He often passes for much younger than he actually is. Yet he is not deprived of food, abused, or otherwise mistreated. He has 24/7 access to good food, is regularly fed a nutritious breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He's just small. Always has been.

 

It frightens me to think that because of his size and the fact that we homeschool that I could automatically fall under suspicion.

 

This is (partly) why I make sure my kids get yearly medical, dental, and vision check ups. And why I force them to play outside and be seen by the community.

 

My boys aren't small, but I hear you Kinsa.

 

We homeschool and aren't in touch with our families (narcissistic personality disorders). We live several states away, but it has crossed my mind that my angry sister and mother will go into it's-just-like-Alley mode and want to send authorities over.

 

As far as I know, they don't have our address. And our Christmas cards speak volumes about happy, involved lives. We travel. One boy is on his 5th year of piano and the other does a martial arts class five nights a week.

 

But, it's crossed my mind.  I've been keeping the house extra tidy and plan to keep a binder of info. by the front door (NOI for schooling, Christmas cards etc.).

 

I know I sound paranoid, but this case has me worried.

 

Alley

[cave canem]

At the press conference today the DA said he believed the Turpin children had hospital births.

And let's add that the children were homebirthed and don't have birth certificates, or social security numbers.

 

[LMD]

No, see, I have a real ground level problem with the government coming into my home without cause. I really do. That is a boundary line for darn good reason, so their cause for crossing it needs to be explicitly defined. I don't think a home visit every year is consistent (like others have said, the most at risk children are toddlers!) and abusive families will just move and not register.

 

More regulations can't be knee jerkily applied, they need to be evidence based and practical.

[Guinevere]

At the press conference today the DA said he believed the Turpin children had hospital births.

Yes, I wasn't actually referring to this particular family, but rather the hypothetical one homeschool mom in az was outlining.

[IfIOnly]

Updated info. about the abuse suffered: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5285723/House-horrors-parents-kept-children-night.html    :crying:

 

 

 

• The children were made to stay awake all night and sleep all day, often going to bed at between 4am and 5am 
• Their only permitted activity was to keep journals - hundreds of which were recovered and will likely be used as evidence
• David Turpin is accused of a lewd act against one child - one of his daughters, under the age of 14 
• The children had been planning to escape for two years before Sunday, when they were rescued
• The 17-year-old daughter who raised the alarm left the house with another sibling but that child became frightened and turned back 
• The parents began using chains and padlocks to tie the children to their beds after one escaped with rope. They would sometimes be chained up for months 
• One of the older boys was allowed out of the home to attend college classes but Louise accompanied him there, waited for him until it finished then accompanied him home
• The couple's youngest child, a two-year-old, was the only one they did not starve 
• The 29-year-old woman who was rescued weighed just 82 lbs
• The children were tied up or beaten if they washed their hands 'above the wrist' because the parents said it amounted to them 'playing in the water' 
• The Turpins kept toys that were still in their boxes at the house but never gave any to the children  

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5285723/House-horrors-parents-kept-children-night.html#ixzz54b4ne6j8 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

And beatings and strangulations too and parents eating pie and other things in front of the children for punishment too. 

 

Some of the children suffer mental and nerve damage from the stress and malnutrition.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by IfIOnly

[cave canem]

Sorry.  I guess ten o'clock is later than it used to be.

Yes, I wasn't actually referring to this particular family, but rather the hypothetical one homeschool mom in az was outlining.

 

[Guinevere]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-house-horrors-13-siblings-205635011.html

 

A California congressman is considering introducing legislation to mandate an annual walk through of the homes of homeschooling families. Abuse is mentioned in the article, so be aware if you'd rather not read it. The part about the congressman is fairly small.

[Ausmumof3]

Updated info. about the abuse suffered: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5285723/House-horrors-parents-kept-children-night.html :crying:

 

 

And beatings and strangulations too and parents eating pie and other things in front of the children for punishment too.

 

Some of the children suffer mental and nerve damage from the stress and malnutrition.

They say the abuse has been going on since 2010? That seems odd given the oldest is 22. Also the state of the previous house.

[snowbeltmom]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-house-horrors-13-siblings-205635011.html

 

A California congressman is considering introducing legislation to mandate an annual walk through of the homes of homeschooling families. Abuse is mentioned in the article, so be aware if you'd rather not read it. The part about the congressman is fairly small.

Would that be in violation of the 4th amendment?

[IfIOnly]

They say the abuse has been going on since 2010? That seems odd given the oldest is 22. Also the state of the previous house.

 

I was surprised by that too. It sounds like it was extreme neglect before that time and the beatings, starving, chaining, and other abuse started in 2010? 

[hjffkj]

Those poor children.

[MinivanMom]

Would that be in violation of the 4th amendment?

 

I don't think so. Theoretically, the state can make reasonable requirements for private schools including an annual walk-through. It isn't a violation of the 4th amendment, because parents don't have to educate their children under the private school law. California parents can choose to home educate through a charter (which would also provide some measure of supervision) or they can send their kids to public or private school. 

[unsinkable]

They say the abuse has been going on since 2010? That seems odd given the oldest is 22. Also the state of the previous house.

I thought the oldest is 29?

[MinivanMom]

I think it's interesting that they're now reporting that the 17-yr-old girl had been plotting this escape for 2 years. I wonder if there was a precipitating event. Isn't the baby about 2 yrs old?

[HeartString]

This says that homeschool students are 3.3% of the population but 47% of the serious abuse cases looked at. I'd call that disproportionate.

But that out of a sample size of 38 families. That's not statistically significant.

[Ausmumof3]

I thought the oldest is 29?

Sorry I meant to say would have been 22 at the time.

[unsinkable]

Sorry I meant to say would have been 22 at the time.

Ah, gotcha.

[ktgrok]

But that out of a sample size of 38 families. That's not statistically significant.

 

Well, hopefully there are not a whole lot more of these types of cases, at this level of abuse. 

[Ausmumof3]

I think it's interesting that they're now reporting that the 17-yr-old girl had been plotting this escape for 2 years. I wonder if there was a precipitating event. Isn't the baby about 2 yrs old?

Also I keep wondering if the obsession with renewing the vows was to do with something happening that made them need to renew the vows. Ugh... I don't even want to think that but I can't help wondering if mum found out something was going on and it was all part of dad making good of something. Thing is she looks quite healthy well styled and normal in the first pictures but she looks very unhealthy in the recent photos.

 

I also wonder if the increased control and abusive discipline techniques started prevent disclosure of sexual abuse.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Ausmumof3

[ccolopy]

They say the abuse has been going on since 2010? That seems odd given the oldest is 22. Also the state of the previous house.

 

I believe that the article you linked is incorrect, and the writer has misinterpreted information from the press conference or other sources. Several articles quote the prosecutor describing abuse that happened in Texas before they moved to California in 2010. 

 

My understanding is that they are being charged for abuse going back to 2010, but not being charged for the earlier abuse in Texas. 

[Ausmumof3]

I believe that the article you linked is incorrect, and the writer has misinterpreted information from the press conference or other sources. Several articles quote the prosecutor describing abuse that happened in Texas before they moved to California in 2010.

 

My understanding is that they are being charged for abuse going back to 2010, but not being charged for the earlier abuse in Texas.

That would make more sense.

[maize]

They couldn't be charged in California for stuff that happened in Texas.

[gardenmom5]

They say the abuse has been going on since 2010? That seems odd given the oldest is 22. Also the state of the previous house.

 

I think it escalated.   the girl who lived across from them in texas, as an adult, can now understand some of the things she saw.  the starvation and filth was definitely going on then.  and the house they left, the buyer spent $30K just to make it inhabitable and there  (WARNING)  were dead animals inside.endend.

 

I was surprised by that too. It sounds like it was extreme neglect before that time and the beatings, starving, chaining, and other abuse started in 2010? 

 

that would make sense - that's when they arrived in CA and CA's jurisdiction began.

[Ausmumof3]

I think it escalated. the girl who lived across from them in texas, as an adult, can now understand some of the things she saw. the starvation and filth was definitely going on then. and the house they left, the buyer spent $30K just to make it inhabitable and there (WARNING) were dead animals inside.endend.

 

 

that would make sense - that's when they arrived in CA and CA's jurisdiction began.

Oh man...

[KungFuPanda]

Good grief. All the J names.

[Corraleno]

Oh man, if this woman is reading this story now, I bet she's utterly heartbroken that she didn't drive this poor child straight to the police station when she had a chance.   :crying: 

 

 

Shortly before the family disappeared and moved out, Shelli says she heard that a neighbor once saw one of the Turpin daughters was walking down the road and offered to give her a ride.

'I guess she was running away. She asked the lady who picked her up, several questions like, how do you get a driver's license? How do you get a job? The Turpin kid didn't know her birthday or didn't even know what was president of the United States.'

 

 

I wonder if the girl's attempt to run away was the reason they suddenly moved and started tying the kids to their beds. 

[Carrie12345]

DA press conference. Ugh. I’m going to be sick

They bought pie and food and left it on the counter but the kids couldn’t eat it.

They have a charge of lewd behavior against a child under 14.

The oldest had classes and the mom would wait outside to pick him up.

They were able to write in journals and the police are using that as evidence and discovering more.

They slept during the day and were up all night.

The baby was fed.

The didn’t know what the police or medication were.

They bought lots of toys but never opened them

 

An abused, neglected, malnourished, undersized young adult in regular contact with a professional educator?  I thought that was supposed to be the solution?

 

Though, I don't think I've seen anything about who alerted authorities... (I wasn't home much yesterday.)

[gardenmom5]

Oh man, if this woman is reading this story now, I bet she's utterly heartbroken that she didn't drive this poor child straight to the police station when she had a chance.   :crying: 

 

 

 

I wonder if the girl's attempt to run away was the reason they suddenly moved and started tying the kids to their beds. 

 

 

the daughter was at the girls house, and the mom/shellie asked her name.  she said "i can't tell you, but if you listen carefully you might hear it."   the younger sister said something about how they weren't supposed to tell anyone.  the next day when the daughter went over to see if they could come outside to play - the mom/louise told her the children were no longer allowed to play with her.  after that, they never played in the front yard again.  only in the back behind a fence, and only with each other.

An abused, neglected, malnourished, undersized young adult in regular contact with a professional educator?  I thought that was supposed to be the solution?

 

Though, I don't think I've seen anything about who alerted authorities... (I wasn't home much yesterday.)

 

the 17 yo found a cell phone in the house and managed to escape and called authorties.   supposedly they'd been plotting an escape for two years.   she managed to get out through a window, another child came with her but was frightened and went back.

when the police arrived - three of the children were hogtied.  the parents managed to untie two of them before the police got inside.

 

and the bail is $13M each. - $1M for each child.