False missile warning in Hawaii

[Tsuga]

I just have to say that the more that comes out about this, the more it reeks of bureaucracy, to be specific, incompetent bureaucracy.

 

“We have emergency processes in place but we never imagined the scenario of a false alarm.â€

 

Really?????

 

The public schools, hospitals, corporations, all of these have “imagined this scenario.†So have other government entities.

 

I just don’t see the breadth of reach and power to tell everyone to keep their mouths shut —and that’s what it would take for a conspiracy.

 

Also, if they were trying to act like it was true and it wasn’t, they would “fire†the guy who made the mistake so they could look in charge and consistent. As it is, the guy is getting “retrained.†Because he never was trained in the possibility of a false alarm in the first place.

 

See my above rant.

 

You're correct, but we are getting what we paid for. This is a democracy, and we ourselves set in place the incentives and oversight and budgets for all of this. So next time anyone says, "Why pay for the government, they never do anything," I hope they have their own ballistic missile alert system set up, because if you don't pay the government, they just won't do it.

 

Sincerely, your friendly ex-government-worker.

[MBM]

One important federal department may have only one or a few who are actually competent who sweat blood because they understand the possible outcomes of different scenarios and how vulnerable people could be harmed. They’re up against various ding dongs who are hired or appointed some of whom have zero understanding or experience necessary to evaluate a department. They’re posers. And some go way up the ladder and have no business being there.

 

I also wonder if the message was hacked.

[Tsuga]

Tsuga, I too come by this opinion from a point of experience. I saw my dh ignore bureaucracy on 9-11 and do what was right and what may have saved lives. I’m not saying YET what he did but it was morally courageous. But definitely not “correct procedure.â€

 

I live in Washington which actually passed a law prohibiting the govt from making preparations for nuclear attack. Seems it is too upsetting to the populace.

 

🙄

 

I live here too. :D

 

We have some weird compromise laws.

[CAJinBE]

I tend to think it was a bureaucratic mess up. But why send any message at all if the population is clueless on what to do in the event of an incoming ballistic missile? Why cause panic? Are there any shelters for people, especially tourists, to access quickly? I kind of doubt it. Are they supposed to duck tape their windows, get into the bath tubs? We seem to be woefully unprepared.

[brehon]

I tend to think it was a bureaucratic mess up. But why send any message at all if the population is clueless on what to do in the event of an incoming ballistic missile? Why cause panic? Are there any shelters for people, especially tourists, to access quickly? I kind of doubt it. Are they supposed to duck tape their windows, get into the bath tubs? We seem to be woefully unprepared.

 

The government could always re-release “Duck and Coverâ€.

[Aura]

I'm also inclined to believe incompetence. I have little faith in our government to be able to handle anything without so many layers of bureaucracy bungling it up.

 

I'm also wondering, now that this has made headlines (Lack of adequate oversight...), if they're not going to end up swinging in the other direction, making so much "oversight" that if an actual alert really needs to be issued, it won't be able to get through that oversight and issued in time!

 

ETA: I support equal opportunity: cynicism applies to both parties.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Aura

[Lanny]

<snip>

I live in Washington which actually passed a law prohibiting the govt from making preparations for nuclear attack. Seems it is too upsetting to the populace.

 

 

I know that is true. I also know that at least one ICBM was developed in Seattle.  That would make Seattle an interesting target for NK and it is close (Great circle route) to NK.

 

At this time, there is a lot of development ahead, for Missile Interceptor Systems.  I hope we never need to use one, other than the occasional tests we do.  The technology will improve, over the years...

[MBM]

It is interesting that the alert went out at 8:08 (possibly 8:07 close to 8:08) which is Hawaii’s area code — 808. Strange. The US would not admit to a hack but would be scrambling afterward.

 

I can tell you for that my husband’s agency was woefully unprotected for years because the IT director was unqualified, to put it mildly.

 

Also, a few years ago, OPM had a large data breach that affected, IIRC, about a million federal workers’ private information. The powers that be did not provide a lot of info regarding who did this but it was presumed to be foreign.

[MBM]

Also, certain government workers are given access to a special phone number that would allow them to get through jammed lines, so even if lines were jammed, someone in charge should be able to get through.

[ktgrok]

See my above rant.

 

You're correct, but we are getting what we paid for. This is a democracy, and we ourselves set in place the incentives and oversight and budgets for all of this. So next time anyone says, "Why pay for the government, they never do anything," I hope they have their own ballistic missile alert system set up, because if you don't pay the government, they just won't do it.

 

Sincerely, your friendly ex-government-worker.

 

What I don't get is why any of this precludes them from calling up the major news networks and immediately getting THEM to spread the word that it is a false alarm. That's what news crews LIVE for, to cut into my regularly scheduled programing and give me breaking news. 

[Carrie12345]

This is true, I don't know that Trump is necessarily the soul of discretion.

 

I'm not saying that I do believe something was launched.  BUT, if I were to entertain the theory that something was, I'd also entertain the theory that maybe it's being kept from him, too.

[La Condessa]

I saw an article with video of parents lowering their children down into a storm drain in lieu of a bomb shelter.  So scary!

[Lanny]

I read this Opinion article awhile ago. He knows what he is talking about. This situation has been allowed to progress to where we are today, over the past 30 or 40 years. Now, we are in truly DEEP stuff with North Korea...

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/01/15/north-korea-might-be-able-to-nuke-us-homeland-right-now.html

 

From what I read and saw on TV, after the debacle in Hawaii last Saturday morning, if one can get into a Basement and seal the  doors and windows (if any) shut and keep the doors shut, for 2 or 3 days, that's the best case. Also, high floors of buildings?  If one is in a car, stop the car and lie flat on the ground. 

 

Obviously, the farther one is from Ground Zero, the better their chances of survival are.

 

Very very very scary..

[Seasider]

I thought I heard a news blip as I was dressing this morning, but have heard no more since and don't have time to search.....was there also a similar incident in Japan overnight?

[maize]

I thought I heard a news blip as I was dressing this morning, but have heard no more since and don't have time to search.....was there also a similar incident in Japan overnight?

Yes! I just heard about it on the radio.

[Lanny]

Yes. Here's a link about the incident in Japan... 

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5351824/japan-false-alarm-nuclear-attack-alert-national-broadcaster-latest/

[Butter]

On the 12th there was a false alarm in Israel as well.  Now, a false alarm in Israel isn't unheard of for sure, but taken with Hawaii and Japan, it makes you wonder.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/rocket-sirens-wail-in-southern-israel-but-idf-says-false-alarm/

[Seasider]

The three false alarms together seriously have me thinking on the hacking theory.

[TravelingChris]

There was no panic in Japan because they have already been having real missile warnings and had to do civil defense manouvers.  The missiles  have flown over Japan and since NK does its; engineering the old fashioned way- test, see what happens and then adjust your missile accordingly- a missile flying over a place could be dangerous even if not meant to be since it can explode.  We also don't know when NK will launch a missile with a nuclear warhead (not towards anybody necessarily but as a test).  

 

I know that Israel has had false missile alerts in the past too.  Having a false alert isn't so much the problem as not fixing it fast enough.  And the state of our emergency preparadness with regards to missile attacks of any kind is basically non existent. 

 

So I think it was government incompetence, not any type of conspiracy and probably not hacking either.  The thing is that Hawaii doesn't have the technology to detect a NK launch or track its trajectory.  Those are all US military responsibility- NORAD, though we may be also getting some data from Canada too.  So no one in Hawaiian government should be issuing a missile alert unless US government tells them to because how would they know?

 

 

I was lived in the DC area growing up.  One book we had in the house or maybe it was the phone book, had a diagram of which areas were in what zone if a nuke was dropped on the White House or maybe it was Washington Monument or somewhere near there.  I think I lived in the second zone- that not instanteousy but the one where the nuclear fire goes, I think if I remember correctly.  I worried about it for a long time but finally made my peace with I am going to die if that happens.  I have pretty much lived my life that way about all the missile and terrorist events.  I am just going to keep living my life (doing routine prep) but not deciding I can't visit Europe because of terrorism or Hawaii because of possible missile attacks, etc.  I am going to talk to dh about us getting pottassium iodide pills because we do have a nuclear plant not too far and that might be a wise decision to have those in case of nuke accident or nuke attack.  I don't think NK can attack any particular place so easily but just about everyplace I have lived has been a big potential target in some types of nuke wars.