False missile warning in Hawaii

[Moxie]

Google your favorite news source.

 

WTH do you do if you are watching tv and the voice comes on “there is an inbound missile expected to reach land, this is not a drillâ€. How terrifying!

[Mimm]

Yeah, my inlaws are in Hawaii... They were supposed to take off to go to the big island, and the airport shut down for a little while. Apparently it was a false alarm. But this is the world we live in I suppose... :(

[Ann.without.an.e]

Crazy.  I can't even imagine.

[Rosika]

Most of my kids, my parents, and my grandmother are there now. I'm glad I don't watch the news!! I think I'd have a heart attack, my blood pressure is already so high and this would have sent me over the edge.  :eek:

[highspirits]

My brother and his wife are visiting there right now and were just telling us this story! Everyone’s phones in their group just started beeping at the same time. They got all panicked and went outside and thought they heard fighter jets. They couldn’t figure out where to go or what to do though and they couldn’t find anything online. They are back to relaxing at the beach now though [emoji4]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited January 13, 2018 by highspirits

[MBM]

We’re in Kauai and were on our way to see Tunnels Beach. Weren’t expecting that sort of message!

[Lanny]

I just finished watching approximately 10 minutes of coverage about this incident on the TV news from the USA.  One problem was that apparently one (1) person was able to send out the Alert. It should take some verification...  The next problem was that it said that it was not a False Alarm. The next problem was that it took them about 30 minutes to send out messages that it was a mistake.  A total failure of the State of Hawaii Emergency Management.  The other issue, hopefully will never happen. They only have 20 minutes, from Launch to Impact. 

[Seasider]

It would take me several pina coladas to recover.

 

Seriously, terrifying.

[dsmith]

I can't imagine how I would react to that. I know it wouldn't be pretty! I'd be freaking out while finding a basement or something.  :willy_nilly:

[Twolittleboys]

It is hard to imagine the number of people who must have been terrified...

[creekland]

It would take me several pina coladas to recover.

 

Seriously, terrifying.

 

Hang on, we'd be in Hawaii.  Make that several Mai Tais instead of Pina Coladas.  ;)

 

If nothing else, it's a good excuse to have them. 

 

I have no idea how I'd have reacted TBH.  It takes a lot to unnerve me.  Considering we're talking nuclear we might have just pulled out chairs to sit on the beach and watch.  If something nuclear really were to get set off by some idiot or another, ground zero isn't that bad of a spot to be (better than dying of radiation poisoning or nuclear winter).  Whether the beach would have been ground zero or not would be impossible for minions to figure out though.  So yeah, in retrospect, a Mai Tai or two would be enjoyed.

[athomeontheprairie]

I just heard about this and was coming here to post.

 

Terrifying. And unbelievable.

 

And hopefully this is a wake up call to state officials and they can fix it before/if an actual warning is need

[Tsuga]

Well, I am not in Hawaii but reading threads and news stories online was enough to get me to bite the bullet and order those emergency backpacks I've been meaning to order because I am too disorganized and overextended to make my own emergency backpacks.

 

I'm also ordering big water bottles. Not because of missiles but I just remembered we don't have proper emergency supplies in our home. :P

 

We're probably dead but who knows, someone might survive and find the stash later.

[Seasider]

Hang on, we'd be in Hawaii. Make that several Mai Tais instead of Pina Coladas. ;)

 

If nothing else, it's a good excuse to have them.

 

I have no idea how I'd have reacted TBH. It takes a lot to unnerve me. Considering we're talking nuclear we might have just pulled out chairs to sit on the beach and watch. If something nuclear really were to get set off by some idiot or another, ground zero isn't that bad of a spot to be (better than dying of radiation poisoning or nuclear winter). Whether the beach would have been ground zero or not would be impossible for minions to figure out though. So yeah, in retrospect, a Mai Tai or two would be enjoyed.

Mai Tais it is then! Cheers!

[BarbecueMom]

Yikes.

 

I thought it was bad when I was dispatching, we were moving furniture in the middle of the night, and my coworker bumped the tornado siren button.  It was funny later (and because I didn't do it).  This is a smidge worse, to put it mildly.

Edited January 14, 2018 by BarbecueMom

[Daria]

What I don't understand with this, is why it took them so long to correct.  

 

I get that it seems to have been an accidental button push, but wouldn't the person almost immediately have said "expletive" and started to fix it?  Or even if they didn't notice, wouldn't the phones have started lighting up and they would have realized the error right away?

 

[sassenach]

RIP that guy’s job

[eternalsummer]

Well, I am not in Hawaii but reading threads and news stories online was enough to get me to bite the bullet and order those emergency backpacks I've been meaning to order because I am too disorganized and overextended to make my own emergency backpacks.

 

I'm also ordering big water bottles. Not because of missiles but I just remembered we don't have proper emergency supplies in our home. :p

 

We're probably dead but who knows, someone might survive and find the stash later.

 

Don't forget iosat (if it's isn't included in the emergency backpacks); it's so cheap and small to store that you might consider having extra on hand, too.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Ok so my DH totally thinks this was rigged to be a test to see how people respond and to get them prepared. He isn’t buying the wrong button theory 😂

[Tap]

Ok so my DH totally thinks this was rigged to be a test to see how people respond and to get them prepared. He isn’t buying the wrong button theory 😂

This is my thought as well.  

 

OR.....someone leaked that that there was an actual missle coming just to screw with people....or to check for a mole. 

[Arcadia]

My home country (277.6 mi² in size) has bomb shelters built by the current government and we had bomb shelter drills. The bomb sirens would blast. My parents were born in Asia, but not Japan, before Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bombed. My relatives and I grew up knowing that bombs are a possibility due to the political turbulence in Asia.

 

Business Insider science section 2014 article Where To Hide If A Nuclear Bomb Is Dropped On Your City http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-survive-a-nuclear-blast-2014-1

Edited January 14, 2018 by Arcadia

[Ausmumof3]

Don't forget iosat (if it's isn't included in the emergency backpacks); it's so cheap and small to store that you might consider having extra on hand, too.

What is iosat? Iodine pills or something?

[Ausmumof3]

What I don't understand with this, is why it took them so long to correct.

 

I get that it seems to have been an accidental button push, but wouldn't the person almost immediately have said "expletive" and started to fix it? Or even if they didn't notice, wouldn't the phones have started lighting up and they would have realized the error right away?

 

 

I know right?! Is it harder to send a correction. Or did they not realise they sent the message?

 

Is there any possibility/ likelihood that there was something underlying the whole false alarm thing? That sounds pretty much too far fetched but.

[scoutingmom]

 

 

My high school’s fire alarm system was broken for a week and it kept sounding off 3-4 times a day. It trained us not to believe it—and it took a lot to get us to leave our chairs during an alarm —long past the time after the system was repaired.

That is a storyline in a tv show I used to watch... then during the year end dance the alarms were going off and no one was taking it seriously but there was a fire. Everyone did get out safely however (the explosion in the boiler room speeded people up....) but the school burned down.

 

But Yes, it is hard not to ignore after a while.

 

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[Daria]

From the press conference, my understanding was that they had never considered the possibility of a false alarm, so didn’t have a correction/false alarm message ready to go. They had to manually program one for the system to send, and it sounds like that was a big part of the delay. They are now remedying that, of course.

 

How hard can that be?  Wouldn't you just type the new message in?  I mean, they must have ways to send out novel messages, wouldn't they?

[Carrie12345]

Ok so my DH totally thinks this was rigged to be a test to see how people respond and to get them prepared. He isn’t buying the wrong button theory 😂

 

While I can't resist entertaining a few theories, I sure as bleep hope that one is way off.  Whatever reaction people had this time is going to be colored with "Maybe it's a mistake" if it ever goes off again.

[Tsuga]

How hard can that be?  Wouldn't you just type the new message in?  I mean, they must have ways to send out novel messages, wouldn't they?

 

Depending on the system, they might have had to go get the person who maintained the application that ran the automation and type it in there.

 

In addition, they have to craft the message and get approval from people all the way up.

 

Then you have to send a test message to ensure that sending the new message, with the change to the application, is going to work.

 

Then you can send the message.

 

This is even in an extremely low-bureaucracy environment. I would say that if you asked my team to do the same thing, and we have like zero overhead, if it was unexpected and the application developer were not there, 30 minutes would be considered a very fast response time. If you had the application developer / maintenance on site all the time for that very purpose (extremely expensive), maybe 15 minutes, provided you had a message approved within 5?

[Daria]

Depending on the system, they might have had to go get the person who maintained the application that ran the automation and type it in there.

 

In addition, they have to craft the message and get approval from people all the way up.

 

Then you have to send a test message to ensure that sending the new message, with the change to the application, is going to work.

 

Then you can send the message.

 

This is even in an extremely low-bureaucracy environment. I would say that if you asked my team to do the same thing, and we have like zero overhead, if it was unexpected and the application developer were not there, 30 minutes would be considered a very fast response time. If you had the application developer / maintenance on site all the time for that very purpose (extremely expensive), maybe 15 minutes, provided you had a message approved within 5?

 

I guess what I'm saying is that, where I live, I get all sorts of alerts on my phone that are obviously not preprogrammed.  X elementary school is closed due to a power outage.  A water mane broke a Y Ave and Z streets, so please take alternate routes. Amber Alert with a description of the car and the license plate etc . . . 

 

So, it seems odd that there was no way to get out a correction message, and if they couldn't send it via the original system, you'd think they'd have some way to contact people who have alternate systems, and get emails out.  

[creekland]

Ok so my DH totally thinks this was rigged to be a test to see how people respond and to get them prepared. He isn’t buying the wrong button theory 😂

 

This possibility came up in our discussion too.

 

I hadn't thought of the mole theory Tap mentioned, but I could see that too.

 

Both seem to fit the actual scene better than "we didn't know how to correct it."  Duh, send the police out on the streets with bullhorns if you literally can't do anything else.  This is not a difficult problem to try to correct and any thinking person would want to correct it ASAP before folks died panicking. Is the place loaded with dumb people or was there something else?

[Carrie12345]

I guess what I'm saying is that, where I live, I get all sorts of alerts on my phone that are obviously not preprogrammed.  X elementary school is closed due to a power outage.  A water mane broke a Y Ave and Z streets, so please take alternate routes. Amber Alert with a description of the car and the license plate etc . . . 

 

So, it seems odd that there was no way to get out a correction message, and if they couldn't send it via the original system, you'd think they'd have some way to contact people who have alternate systems, and get emails out.  

 

I don't really want to make jokes out of a situation that I truly do find upsetting but...

 

This is probably the only situation in which I'd actually appreciate a group text!  :tongue_smilie:

[TechWife]

I guess what I'm saying is that, where I live, I get all sorts of alerts on my phone that are obviously not preprogrammed. X elementary school is closed due to a power outage. A water mane broke a Y Ave and Z streets, so please take alternate routes. Amber Alert with a description of the car and the license plate etc . . .

 

So, it seems odd that there was no way to get out a correction message, and if they couldn't send it via the original system, you'd think they'd have some way to contact people who have alternate systems, and get emails out.

But you have no idea how long it took to get that message ready from the time it was conceived. Additionally, there are already processes and programs in place to send these types of messages. It’s likely approved templates already exist and the people who send them are just “filling in the blanks†so to speak.

[MBM]

They knew within minutes. The thing is, a bureaucracy will always take longer to decide what to do because the process becomes more important than the results.

This is very likely why it took so long to send out the second message. My husband works for the federal government. It’s ridiculous how things are run at times. Procedure take precedence.

 

Years ago, he was part of a team that identified nuclear fallout shelters throughout the US, so at least he knows what to look for and the odds of survival.

[creekland]

Years ago, he was part of a team that identified nuclear fallout shelters throughout the US, so at least he knows what to look for and the odds of survival.

 

It's not really so difficult to survive the blast unless one is literally at Ground Zero.  The "trick" comes in being able to survive the aftermath.

 

Three decades ago I worked on some of those calculations... doubt much has changed.

[Carrie12345]

It's not really so difficult to survive the blast unless one is literally at Ground Zero.  The "trick" comes in being able to survive the aftermath.

 

Three decades ago I worked on some of those calculations... doubt much has changed.

 

The CDC postponed its plans for updated public education, but I printed their published recommendations a few months back.  ;)

[eternalsummer]

This map is pretty interesting:

http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

 

As far as a blast radius goes, anyway.  

[Farrar]

This map is pretty interesting:

http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

 

As far as a blast radius goes, anyway.  

 

Within the air blast radius if the most recent NK bomb tested were dropped on DC. I hope we all go fast.

[Arcadia]

What is iosat? Iodine pills or something?

Potassium Iodide pills.

 

From Scientific American Does Potassium Iodide Protect People from Radiation Leaks? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/japan-earthquake-tsunami-radiation/

“Why is potassium iodide administered to people who have been exposed to radioactive iodine?

The thyroid is like a sponge for iodine. It's been known from the 1970s that if you administer normal iodine the thyroid will absorb it and then block the uptake of subsequent exposures to radioactive iodine. Therefore, if you take potassium iodide and then are exposed to radioactive iodine, there won't be any place for it to go because your thyroid is all filled and the radioactive material will be excreted from the body.

 

One pill is good for 24 hours, but then you have to take another pill. You don't take two pills at once, because having too much potassium iodide isn't good for you either. Like anything else, it's not 100 percent effective, but it appears to be quite a benign thing to take, and it does block the uptake of radioactive iodine.

 

Is thyroid cancer the foremost risk when radioactive iodine is in the air?

With regard to radioactive iodine, it's just the thyroid gland that you're worried about; you're not concerned about anything else. Of course, in an event like Chernobyl where the reactor's containment vessel did not hold everything a number of other radioactive elements were also released, including cesium and strontium as well as some of the reactor fuel—the uraniums and plutoniums. Still, the two main elements of concern from a radiation leak would be radioactive iodine and cesium, [the latter of] which has a half-life of 30 years, so it stays around for a little while.

 

Would potassium iodide protect a person from other forms of cancer?

No, this is unique. These potassium iodide pills are not magic pills. They protect against thyroid cancer but they don't protect you against other possible cancers.

 

Assuming there is more than radioactive iodine in the air, what can people do to protect themselves?

There is no protective agent against other cancers. The protective measures are to evacuate, get as far away from the radiation exposure as you can so that your dose is much lower. Stay inside, don't go out and breathe contaminated air. If you do get some exposure to radioactive elements, take a shower and wash them off immediately.â€

[wonderchica]

Hmmm. What if your thyroid already doesn’t work?

[Alicia64]

Ok so my DH totally thinks this was rigged to be a test to see how people respond and to get them prepared. He isn’t buying the wrong button theory 😂

 

My DH thinks the gov't is covering something up. That, in fact, something did happen, but they dealt w/ it and then acted all, "false alarm! Our bad!"

 

I'm Team I Have No Idea What Happened. (But for something that's been in place for decades with nothing happening, it feels odd that all of a sudden. . . it happens.)

 

Alley

[eternalsummer]

I think both of the above theories make sense.

[creekland]

My DH thinks the gov't is covering something up. That, in fact, something did happen, but they dealt w/ it and then acted all, "false alarm! Our bad!"

 

I'm Team I Have No Idea What Happened. (But for something that's been in place for decades with nothing happening, it feels odd that all of a sudden. . . it happens.)

 

Alley

 

But what would be keeping all the other countries quiet about it?  We're not the only ones who would know of a launch.

 

The only possible theories I could get behind are a leak to test to see if there's a mole or someone thinking a test of the system to see what people would do is a good idea.

 

Or, it could have just been a mistake with a bunch of clueless people having no idea how to correct it in a timely manner.

 

Any of those three would fit.  A covered up actual launch doesn't.  Countries don't keep secrets together all that well.

[umsami]

This map is pretty interesting:

http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

 

As far as a blast radius goes, anyway.  

 

This is depressing, especially as you can see how "small" the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were compared to today.

[Alicia64]

But what would be keeping all the other countries quiet about it?  We're not the only ones who would know of a launch.

 

 

Well, dh is saying that if North Korea's missiles are neutralized. . . they might have completely lost face and won't want to crow about it. Like, they'd be thinking, "if the U.S. (or China?) can shut us down that quickly we're in worst shape than we thought."

 

And they wouldn't want to tell the world about how lame they are.

 

This is from DH.

 

Alley

[eternalsummer]

This is depressing, especially as you can see how "small" the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs were compared to today.

 

 

Well, think of it this way:

 

anyone who is going to use one bomb, or maybe two, is going to have something as small as or smaller than the Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombs.

 

Anyone who has the larger bombs is either going to not use them at all or is going to launch 500 of them at once, minutes after which everyone else launches all of theirs, and the world is kaput.

 

So it's not really that depressing.

[eternalsummer]

But what would be keeping all the other countries quiet about it?  We're not the only ones who would know of a launch.

 

The only possible theories I could get behind are a leak to test to see if there's a mole or someone thinking a test of the system to see what people would do is a good idea.

 

Or, it could have just been a mistake with a bunch of clueless people having no idea how to correct it in a timely manner.

 

Any of those three would fit.  A covered up actual launch doesn't.  Countries don't keep secrets together all that well.

 

Major powers, and minor ones, who are not renegade states, all have a massive and overwhelming interest in maintaining the status quo for as long as possible.  

 

No one wants the US in a war with NK, or even to take a nuclear reaction to North Korean aggression.  China doesn't want it, South Korea doesn't want it, Japan doesn't want it, we don't want it, Canada doesn't want it, Russia doesn't want it.  Russia also doesn't want the US on their border; the original NK leader, Kim Il-Sung, was trained in the USSR, so there are ties there, but no one wants Armageddon because of some crazy guy in North Korea.

 

So yes, I can believe that if NK launched a functional missile and we shot it down, and other governments knew about it, they'd keep quiet if that's the way the US wanted it played.

 

 

On the other hand, I think it's just as likely that they wanted to test emergency response (and especially popular reaction given the current level of non-planning) and wrote it off as a mistake, or that it was actually a mistake.  Or a deliberate malicious act, maybe, to sow confusion in the later event of a real strike - who knows.

[snowbeltmom]

Major powers, and minor ones, who are not renegade states, all have a massive and overwhelming interest in maintaining the status quo for as long as possible.  

 

No one wants the US in a war with NK, or even to take a nuclear reaction to North Korean aggression.  China doesn't want it, South Korea doesn't want it, Japan doesn't want it, we don't want it, Canada doesn't want it, Russia doesn't want it.  Russia also doesn't want the US on their border; the original NK leader, Kim Il-Sung, was trained in the USSR, so there are ties there, but no one wants Armageddon because of some crazy guy in North Korea.

 

So yes, I can believe that if NK launched a functional missile and we shot it down, and other governments knew about it, they'd keep quiet if that's the way the US wanted it played.

 

 

On the other hand, I think it's just as likely that they wanted to test emergency response (and especially popular reaction given the current level of non-planning) and wrote it off as a mistake, or that it was actually a mistake.  Or a deliberate malicious act, maybe, to sow confusion in the later event of a real strike - who knows.

If we shot down a missile, I don't think our government would be able keep it a secret - I think the little rocket man would have been taunted on twitter.

[creekland]

Well, dh is saying that if North Korea's missiles are neutralized. . . they might have completely lost face and won't want to crow about it. Like, they'd be thinking, "if the U.S. (or China?) can shut us down that quickly we're in worst shape than we thought."

 

And they wouldn't want to tell the world about how lame they are.

 

This is from DH.

 

Alley

 

I could fully get behind NK not wanting to mention it, but not the other countries or other professional/amateur sky watchers staying quiet.

 

Major powers, and minor ones, who are not renegade states, all have a massive and overwhelming interest in maintaining the status quo for as long as possible.  

 

No one wants the US in a war with NK, or even to take a nuclear reaction to North Korean aggression.  China doesn't want it, South Korea doesn't want it, Japan doesn't want it, we don't want it, Canada doesn't want it, Russia doesn't want it.  Russia also doesn't want the US on their border; the original NK leader, Kim Il-Sung, was trained in the USSR, so there are ties there, but no one wants Armageddon because of some crazy guy in North Korea.

 

So yes, I can believe that if NK launched a functional missile and we shot it down, and other governments knew about it, they'd keep quiet if that's the way the US wanted it played.

 

 

On the other hand, I think it's just as likely that they wanted to test emergency response (and especially popular reaction given the current level of non-planning) and wrote it off as a mistake, or that it was actually a mistake.  Or a deliberate malicious act, maybe, to sow confusion in the later event of a real strike - who knows.

 

I agree that everyone (sane & knowledgeable about consequences) wants to avoid any nuclear action - or war in general.  This is why nothing has been done (war-wise) in the past few decades.  But there are far too many amateur and professional sky watchers to believe ALL would stay quiet if they saw something go off.  The chances that none of them are paying attention to that hot spot is nil.

[eternalsummer]

If we shot down a missile, I don't think our government would be able keep it a secret - I think the little rocket man would have been taunted on twitter.

 

 

This is true, I don't know that Trump is necessarily the soul of discretion.

[Ausmumof3]

Well, dh is saying that if North Korea's missiles are neutralized. . . they might have completely lost face and won't want to crow about it. Like, they'd be thinking, "if the U.S. (or China?) can shut us down that quickly we're in worst shape than we thought."

 

And they wouldn't want to tell the world about how lame they are.

 

This is from DH.

 

Alley

A 3rd option is a mistake where someone thought something was launched and reacted but actually nothing was.

 

Honestly though I think it probably was just an error.

 

Maybe more adjustments, tests and modifications to the system are being made due to everyone being on edge about the situation. And with any change there's an increased likelihood of error.

[Tsuga]

I guess what I'm saying is that, where I live, I get all sorts of alerts on my phone that are obviously not preprogrammed.  X elementary school is closed due to a power outage.  A water mane broke a Y Ave and Z streets, so please take alternate routes. Amber Alert with a description of the car and the license plate etc . . . 

 

So, it seems odd that there was no way to get out a correction message, and if they couldn't send it via the original system, you'd think they'd have some way to contact people who have alternate systems, and get emails out.  

 

They didn't have it in the algorithm. Think of a computer program as a series of "if this, then that" statements. Sometimes they loop around, "if this, then that until this plus 1000". When they say they didn't have a correction message built in, they mean that there is was no, "if there is a mistake, then send this correction".

 

They would have to fill in an existing sending algorithm, such as the warning message one, with another text, and then press the warning button to send the texts. "If there is an emergency button pressed, tell everyone it's a mistake."

 

If they didn't have a correction message built into the system, then they had to program it in there.

 

And again, remember: they probably don't have someone who logs into the message system on site. Likely, the button or whatever is all part of one application. So they need to call the developer / engineer, have that person write an alternative message somewhere that can easily be deployed, test it, and then send it. A big time lapse would be the engineer actually getting the message and logging in to the system since I don't know if you all know this...

 

and sorry to get political but... rant...

America spends JACK ALL on its IT infrastructure and you all are depending on 20 - 50 year old systems for like everything because you are so dang cheap with your tax dollars and spend it all on tanks and detaining people for weed.

 

So, you wouldn't have a lot of backup. There's a good chance only one person in the greater Honolulu area knows that system. You get what you pay for, people, and you don't pay for "bureaucracy" or government workers. Don't expect what you aren't willing to pay for.

 

n/m this is too angry... so frustrated at our country not willing to spend time or money on these systems then complaining when they don't work. :(

 

 

 

And of course, this assumes that we have zero oversight of the message itself, which is unlikely.

 

You can't just type it in like you'd type it in to a message board. That would be extremely insecure and moreover, we aren't paying for that level of technology.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Tsuga