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Meadowlark

Oh, please tell me how to handle this. I'm fuming!

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Why are people viewing this as being forced to use facebook?  My business has a website hosted somewhere.  If I tell people to go to my website to get x information or sign up for y, is that me forcing them to use my web host, or is it me using my web host and telling people where to conveniently find me?

 

If we are saying the local leader is expected to research and find a method that is as useful as facebook, also free (or covered by dues), and not ... whatever it is that facebook allegedly is to people who don't actually use it other than to keep up with groups on facebook, that is unfair.  You want it on a platform that does all of that, you set it up and make it just as easy for the leader (and all the other users) as facebook is.

 

I don't have to contract with your web host though.  

 

There are other solutions than proprietary online platforms.

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I had to send out reminders today for one of my groups, I sent them through FB and email, even though I never receive any acknowledgment that anyone checks the email reminders, our tracking software is set up pretty easily for this. 

 

 I find the excuse that people don't check email or messages to be bogus, especially when said people have iPhones that I see them on ALL the time. People keep up when things are important to them. 

 

FWIW I was the FB holdout I tried to use yahoo groups first, since I was the one in charge BUT it has its own problems and people didn't respond to it well. So I gave up and went to FB, because all but a few were already on there. I still don't love it but it is so much easier to use and the response rate is much higher. 

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Use them for data purposes.  Compiling profiles, information analysis, etc.  To decide what kind of person you are.  

 

Privacy settings are only about what you show other users.  Though, they can also change their privacy policies any time, without telling you, and have in the past.

 

How are they using photos for data and informational analysis? Maybe if the photo is tagged with a location...but a photo of my cat laying in the laundry basket? Are you saying they are using recognition software to find photos of cats in my photos to sell me cat food? If so, they are doing a terrible job...i don't get any cat food ads, lol. 

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On a side note, for those that struggle with people forgetting passwords, it sometimes helps to ask all members to follow a standard system for the group.  That way they have something to anchor to in trying to remember a password they are not used to using or don't have to use often.   For instance, maybe the members use the initials of the group plus their favorite flower plus the number of members of their family.  Or something else along those lines.  Maybe it doesn't even need to be that elaborate.  If someone forgets their PW but is reminded of the system being used by the group they may have a much greater chance of recalling their password.

 

Even for the kids' on-line classes they are much better at recalling their PW when the school has a specific system they ask all students to use, even if each PW for each student has something unique about it.  The PW is still unique to that student but the student has an established system they follow to recall it.

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More bad news:

 

Your presence in public grants literally any photographer the same rights.

 

I know. I hate that too.

 

And your children too. It's legal to take photos of children in public and it's legal to post them online. I found that out years ago when ds was little and someone who turned out to be a high school photography student took photos of him at a playground. The idea that staying off Facebook and/or Google sites makes your life more private is somewhat laughable. 

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How are they using photos for data and informational analysis? Maybe if the photo is tagged with a location...but a photo of my cat laying in the laundry basket? Are you saying they are using recognition software to find photos of cats in my photos to sell me cat food? If so, they are doing a terrible job...i don't get any cat food ads, lol. 

 

I don't know, but a lot of what data mining is for is to create data sets about types of people.  Perhaps people who love cats are inclined to by Gucci shoes, or vote a certain way, or respond to certain arguments.

 

How can data be manipulated or analyzed or correlated in ways that are useful?  That people will pay for?  

 

it's a way to create, or magnify, power structures that give more and more informational power and ability to manipulate to the super-wealthy, which means disempowering everyone else.

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I can't believe y'all are on page 8 about this...

 

I'd bet that people working in doctors' and dentists' offices, as well as any other business with scheduled appointments, could probably fill 8 pages of annoyances in less than 2 minutes. And no-shows for appoints costs them money, at least in volunteer situations the money loss isn't as big a factor, though it's present. 

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I can't help but come to the conclusion that there is some real - not disagreement really but just difference of orientation - in terms of individualism vs collectivism, being exhibited in this thread.

Edited by Bluegoat
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I can't help but come to the conclusion that there is some real - not disagreement really but just difference of orientation - in terms of individualism vs collectivism, being exhibited in this thread.

I think if you choose to participate in group activities, you, by definition, have to sacrifice some individualism.  

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I don't know, but a lot of what data mining is for is to create data sets about types of people.  Perhaps people who love cats are inclined to by Gucci shoes, or vote a certain way, or respond to certain arguments.

 

How can data be manipulated or analyzed or correlated in ways that are useful?  That people will pay for?  

 

it's a way to create, or magnify, power structures that give more and more informational power and ability to manipulate to the super-wealthy, which means disempowering everyone else.

 

My point was, I get that by clicking on stuff about cats, posting stuff about cats, they can get that info. Or using cookies. But that has nothing to do with them using my photos, which was the post I was talking about. I do not think they are at this point using PHOTOS for data mining. Or using photos in any other way, which was explained above, other than posting them as you determine in your privacy settings. 

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I think if you choose to participate in group activities, you, by definition, have to sacrifice some individualism.  

 

Yes, but OTOH I'm strongly collectivists in terms of my social orientation, and that's my issue with FB and similar platforms and why I wouldn't want to create situations where people feel obliged to use them.

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My point was, I get that by clicking on stuff about cats, posting stuff about cats, they can get that info. Or using cookies. But that has nothing to do with them using my photos, which was the post I was talking about. I do not think they are at this point using PHOTOS for data mining. Or using photos in any other way, which was explained above, other than posting them as you determine in your privacy settings. 

 

I don't know if they use them for data mining, but the technology is certainly available to do so. They already use facial recognition in uploaded photos. 

 

If it makes their information analysis more complete (it would), and people will pay for better information (they will), it's hard to imagine they would not take advantage of that at some point. And they can use them that way if they want to.  

 

It's not just photos of course, anything they record can be used that way, from what you write to where your cursor hovers.

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And your children too. It's legal to take photos of children in public and it's legal to post them online. I found that out years ago when ds was little and someone who turned out to be a high school photography student took photos of him at a playground. The idea that staying off Facebook and/or Google sites makes your life more private is somewhat laughable.

Fine, laugh away at me.

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I am not convinced that someone who takes a random photo of my kids, or me, or anything else,in public is putting it into some number-crunching database.  That seems like it would be an unusual occurrence.

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Fine, laugh away at me.

FWIW, I'm not laughing. 

 

I think people have valid concerns about using something as organized and pervasive as FB.  The data gathering power FB has is very different from some random stranger on the street happening to take a photo of my child or noticing I buy coffee at whatever place every day.  That is just not the same thing.

 

Different people are going to put different levels of weight on the situation with FB and I hope we can respect that.  Those that aren't concerned and happily use FB have the right to do so.  It really can be a HUGE help in running a group.  Those that have serious concerns and choose not to do so have that right.  I think this works a lot better if people are recognizing and supporting each other's choices in this.  I also think situations like this work a whole lot better if all sides are willing to come to the table and work on solutions.  If all anyone does is finger point and stew over it then mostly what is generated are not solutions but hard feelings.

 

If I am joining an organization run by volunteers and their primary form of communication is something I cannot or will not use, then I have to choose whether jumping through hoops to get informed is worth it to me.  If it is, then I join.  I work to find solutions to the communications disconnect that does not negatively impact the volunteer leader and the other members.  I don't think others should belittle my choices nor do I think I should be getting pissed off and complaining because the majority of the group chooses a form of communication I have objections to.  I need to work to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.  And if I am the only one needing a different form of communication but do not proactively seek another way to communicate I am part of the problem.

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FWIW, I'm not laughing. 

 

I think people have valid concerns about using something as organized and pervasive as FB.  The data gathering power FB has is very different from some random stranger on the street happening to take a photo of my child or noticing I buy coffee at whatever place every day.  That is just not the same thing.

 

Different people are going to put different levels of weight on the situation with FB and I hope we can respect that.  Those that aren't concerned and happily use FB have the right to do so.  It really can be a HUGE help in running a group.  Those that have serious concerns and choose not to do so have that right.  I think this works a lot better if people are recognizing and supporting each other's choices in this.  I also think situations like this work a whole lot better if all sides are willing to come to the table and work on solutions.  If all anyone does is finger point and stew over it then mostly what is generated are not solutions but hard feelings.

 

If I am joining an organization run by volunteers and their primary form of communication is something I cannot or will not use, then I have to choose whether jumping through hoops to get informed is worth it to me.  If it is, then I join.  I work to find solutions to the communications disconnect that does not negatively impact the volunteer leader and the other members.  I don't think others should belittle my choices nor do I think I should be getting pissed off and complaining because the majority of the group chooses a form of communication I have objections to.  I need to work to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.  And if I am the only one needing a different form of communication but do not proactively seek another way to communicate I am part of the problem.

 

 

This is pretty much how I feel about the whole situation.

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I personally have no problem with this; however, it's been brought up that people don't want to have to be beholden to one company. Wouldn't using Shutterfly give the same complaint? You only have 1 choice. You'd have to have an account there just like you would on Facebook in order to participate.  

 

Sure, I guess? I don't know, I was just responding to someone who asked for an alternative to FB. That's one alternative. I wasn't taking a stand in any particular direction.

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FWIW, I'm not laughing. 

 

I think people have valid concerns about using something as organized and pervasive as FB.  The data gathering power FB has is very different from some random stranger on the street happening to take a photo of my child or noticing I buy coffee at whatever place every day.  That is just not the same thing.

 

Different people are going to put different levels of weight on the situation with FB and I hope we can respect that.  Those that aren't concerned and happily use FB have the right to do so.  It really can be a HUGE help in running a group.  Those that have serious concerns and choose not to do so have that right.  I think this works a lot better if people are recognizing and supporting each other's choices in this.  I also think situations like this work a whole lot better if all sides are willing to come to the table and work on solutions.  If all anyone does is finger point and stew over it then mostly what is generated are not solutions but hard feelings.

 

If I am joining an organization run by volunteers and their primary form of communication is something I cannot or will not use, then I have to choose whether jumping through hoops to get informed is worth it to me.  If it is, then I join.  I work to find solutions to the communications disconnect that does not negatively impact the volunteer leader and the other members.  I don't think others should belittle my choices nor do I think I should be getting pissed off and complaining because the majority of the group chooses a form of communication I have objections to.  I need to work to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.  And if I am the only one needing a different form of communication but do not proactively seek another way to communicate I am part of the problem.

 

 

I agree with all of this...

 

except, your last para is really from the POV of someone joining.

 

If I am volunteering for some organization which has some kind of mandate, which includes being open to public membership - well, that's the other side of the same issue, isn't it?  Do I want to not include people, discourage people who don't use FB, from this organization - something like 4-H?  If I think it's an important activity, I think I would want to know if someone had issues with the communications method we are using, the venue we were meeting in, whatever, and I don't think raising those questions would be illegitimate.

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I did a little 4H when I was a kid, also soccer, track, theater.... Somehow it was possible despite no WWW, cell phones, FB, email.  

 

I guess it pretty much isn't anymore, even for something like 4H which seems to (or at least used to) value things (animals, plants, nature) that may be in many ways the opposite of what FB or similar social media communication values are.  As I recall, times and days were standard, important announcements given at prior meeting.  People knew that if there was an emergency or flooding or snow causing schools to be closed (announced on radio--and generally visible or apparent in other ways) that the activity would not happen either--unless some special reason existed to have it happen despite such conditions, like one church I was at always had a service even if snowstorm because the rector lived right there, so he led the service even if no one showed up. Once I think, he couldn't and people who showed up had their own self-led prayers and coffee.  No big deal.

 

 It seems like all the current rapid communication possible has actually caused an over-all greater level of difficulty and time wasting, not so much real help.

 

More work, not less, for volunteers.  More frustration, not less, for participants.

 

More confusion.  More stress.  

 

Glow-kids. Glow-parents.

 

Okay.

 

My mini-rant done.

 

Sorry.

Edited by Pen
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I did a little 4H when I was a kid, also soccer, track, theater.... Somehow it was possible despite no WWW, cell phones, FB, email.  

 

I guess it pretty much isn't anymore, even for something like 4H which seems to (or at least used to) value things (animals, plants, nature) that may be in many ways the opposite of what FB or similar social media communication values are.  As I recall, times and days were standard, important announcements given at prior meeting.  People knew that if there was an emergency or flooding or snow causing schools to be closed (announced on radio--and generally visible or apparent in other ways) that the activity would not happen either.  If there was a National holiday on the activity day, it was known it would be skipped.  It seems like all the current rapid communication possible has actually caused an over-all greater level of difficulty and time wasting, not so much real help.

 

I have a mixed response to this post. Here's my over/under:

 

Again, FB or any social media can just be a tool. I follow FB pages and groups that are about music, nature study with children, Waldorf crafts, almanac, plant and tree study, so my FB news feed can be as placid, peaceful, and "values" driven as I'd like. I could ignore all of that to follow celebrity gossip, talk radio hosts, and political pundits, but I'm in the driver's seat.

 

I agree with you that there is too much pivoting in every single activity we're all involved with now - it WAS simpler, clearer, and more effective in the good ol' days. I agree 100%. I think the extra fancy footwork about constantly accommodating everybody's whims and schedules has not simplified anything, even if the intent is to include more people. It's just exasperating. Back when the deal was "every second Tuesday at 4, at the same place, there will be an update ONLY if there will be a very rare cancellation of the event" - you got there or you didn't. You knew if you wanted the news and information, you needed to be present.

 

But I don't reckon there's any going back. I've been the secretary for a not-for-profit that is committed to simple schedules and communication (nothing's changed since 1975), and I run a business now. People will not LET you be simple about it. They'll ring your phone off the hook or blow up your email inbox, wanting special attention and restatement of information that is readily accessible (and they know it).

 

Which is what the thread is about, I guess. If families would calm down, streamline their schedules a wee bit, and take personal responsibility, then we could run things more simply again. 

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I agree with all of this...

 

except, your last para is really from the POV of someone joining.

 

If I am volunteering for some organization which has some kind of mandate, which includes being open to public membership - well, that's the other side of the same issue, isn't it?  Do I want to not include people, discourage people who don't use FB, from this organization - something like 4-H?  If I think it's an important activity, I think I would want to know if someone had issues with the communications method we are using, the venue we were meeting in, whatever, and I don't think raising those questions would be illegitimate.

 

But, how far do you go to accommodate every single persons preferences?  It's impossible to make everyone happy, even if you're willing to drive yourself nuts making sure everyone gets exactly what they want.

 

My 4-H club meets in the clubhouse at our lake.  It has two rooms, one small, one the size of a gymnasium, easily accessible bathrooms, fully handicap accessible, sinks, a kitchen and an easy to clean floor.  It's easy to do a variety of activities because of the space.  But, there is a bar upstairs.  It's not open when we have our meetings, the lights are all out, nobody is allowed up there, the kids don't even notice it.   But I've had people object to where we meet because of it.   

 

Finding a space to meet around here is extremely difficult.  Libraries only let you book once a month, can boot you out, can't do anything messy (I do science so....), and the rooms are fairly small.   Schools no longer let you use rooms unless every single adult is background checked and fingerprinted.  Including the parents who just walk in long enough to drop their kids off.  Plus there is a lot of stuff that we'd have to be careful of in a classroom.  Most rec centers, churches, etc. are already fully booked.  Most also don't have the space to do science with 20+ kids.

 

So, do I accommodate this person's problem by driving myself crazy trying to find another meeting location?  Dissolve the club because our location isn't good enough for this one person?  Or does their problem with it mean we aren't the right group for them and since the majority don't have a problem with it, we just keep doing what we're doing?

 

I actually find email and Facebook much easier than the "old" methods.  Even back then, things happened but since changes were harder to communicate, people showed up to find a note on the door.  

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I agree with all of this...

 

except, your last para is really from the POV of someone joining.

 

If I am volunteering for some organization which has some kind of mandate, which includes being open to public membership - well, that's the other side of the same issue, isn't it?  Do I want to not include people, discourage people who don't use FB, from this organization - something like 4-H?  If I think it's an important activity, I think I would want to know if someone had issues with the communications method we are using, the venue we were meeting in, whatever, and I don't think raising those questions would be illegitimate.

I absolutely agree which is why I have, multiple times, said that there needs to be a DISCUSSION.  People need to know there is an issue and to be willing to work towards solutions.  If people are not talking to each other, they are just getting more and more upset behind the scenes, then it makes it a lot less likely that solutions will be found, especially since not everyone may even be aware that there IS an issue.  I absolutely do agree that raising these questions is a  legitimate concern.  I also think it is important while raising these issues to try and be understanding of the other side, whichever side that is.

 

ETA:  And I also feel it is important for members to understand that the leader may be juggling a ton of different "simple requests" and demands of their time.  They add up.  Rapidly.  

 

 

Edited by OneStepAtATime

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Why not just see if one of the club officers, probably the president or secretary, could have the added duty of texting anyone who wants to be put on the text list about any changes?

 

Otherwise it seems very reasonable to me for the OP to simply text the leader before meetings and verify the time is correct. 4-H meetings are once a month so we're not talking about requiring more than 15 seconds a month of extra time on the leader's part, or 30 seconds if there's a 2nd activity that month, and she doesn't have to remember anything extra. "Meeting tomorrow still at 6?" "Yes" or "No changed to 5:30". Done. (Or text your 4H friend, OP, and ask her every month.)

 

And while that might be a hassle for the leader if she's doing that for a bunch of different people or with multiple groups, the OP isn't responsible for any communications accomodations anyone else is asking for. She'd take responsibility for her own lack of FB access in a way that puts very minimal strain on anyone else (and the leader could always tell her it was too much hassle for her to check in via text if that were actually the case).

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But, how far do you go to accommodate every single persons preferences?  It's impossible to make everyone happy, even if you're willing to drive yourself nuts making sure everyone gets exactly what they want.

 

My 4-H club meets in the clubhouse at our lake.  It has two rooms, one small, one the size of a gymnasium, easily accessible bathrooms, fully handicap accessible, sinks, a kitchen and an easy to clean floor.  It's easy to do a variety of activities because of the space.  But, there is a bar upstairs.  It's not open when we have our meetings, the lights are all out, nobody is allowed up there, the kids don't even notice it.   But I've had people object to where we meet because of it.   

 

Finding a space to meet around here is extremely difficult.  Libraries only let you book once a month, can boot you out, can't do anything messy (I do science so....), and the rooms are fairly small.   Schools no longer let you use rooms unless every single adult is background checked and fingerprinted.  Including the parents who just walk in long enough to drop their kids off.  Plus there is a lot of stuff that we'd have to be careful of in a classroom.  Most rec centers, churches, etc. are already fully booked.  Most also don't have the space to do science with 20+ kids.

 

So, do I accommodate this person's problem by driving myself crazy trying to find another meeting location?  Dissolve the club because our location isn't good enough for this one person?  Or does their problem with it mean we aren't the right group for them and since the majority don't have a problem with it, we just keep doing what we're doing?

 

I actually find email and Facebook much easier than the "old" methods.  Even back then, things happened but since changes were harder to communicate, people showed up to find a note on the door.  

 

I'm thinking of my time in leadership at a community theater with a diverse group of families, many of whom had strong religious beliefs. One of the big points of contention involved performance and practice dates. Some families considered Saturday to be sacred. Others were convinced that Sunday should be "family time." There were a few who did no work on Friday nights. Absolutely impossible to accommodate the diversity of beliefs and opinions. A portion of the group actually started up a movement to boycott the theater when we scheduled a Sunday activity. Then there were opinions on fundraising; again the sacrosanct day thing came into play, but also people had deeply held beliefs on the use of various substances that could or could not be made available at fundraisers. Coffee and alcohol were frequently up for debate.

 

I have a friend whose husband has some particularly paranoid opinions about the staffing of a particular airline. It's limited the travel their kids can do with their teams out of state (we live in a geographically distant state, and driving is not generally a practical option.)

 

Anyone who has spent any amount of time as a volunteer organizer knows that it is impossible to please everyone, no matter how good one's intentions.

 

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Fwiw, when I was a FB holdout, I accepted that I would miss out on some stuff. 

 

Now, very kindly, a friend often would email me with things that came up on FB she thought I'd be interested in.

 

That was a kindness, not a 'should' or a 'must'. 

 

 

 

 

 

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The people that don't check their email... I want to know if this is because they don't get on the computer much or because they just don't like to check it that often? I have a few accounts and don't check them all the same frequency, but I I know which ones are more important (ie. the one I use to sign up for crap at the store is not going to have my homeschool notices).

I don’t check my email because no one ever emails me other than junk.

 

Even my kids public school teachers and counselors Facebook message me.

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Yeah, it would, potentially.

 

Now, people might not have the same issues with Shutterfly - so, it might be that it wasn't a problem in the same way.  Whereas quite a ew people have issues with FB.  So it kind of becomes a bit like compelling everyone in the group to sell Nestle chocolate bars, or, I don't know, Monsanto weed killers, for a fundraiser.  You'll get more objections than you would selling local vegetable boxes.

 

Probably the main reason nobody has the same issues with Shutterfly (as far as you know) is that Shutterfly isn't as widespread / well known as Facebook (yet).

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Why not just see if one of the club officers, probably the president or secretary, could have the added duty of texting anyone who wants to be put on the text list about any changes?

 

Otherwise it seems very reasonable to me for the OP to simply text the leader before meetings and verify the time is correct. 4-H meetings are once a month so we're not talking about requiring more than 15 seconds a month of extra time on the leader's part, or 30 seconds if there's a 2nd activity that month, and she doesn't have to remember anything extra. "Meeting tomorrow still at 6?" "Yes" or "No changed to 5:30". Done. (Or text your 4H friend, OP, and ask her every month.)

 

And while that might be a hassle for the leader if she's doing that for a bunch of different people or with multiple groups, the OP isn't responsible for any communications accomodations anyone else is asking for. She'd take responsibility for her own lack of FB access in a way that puts very minimal strain on anyone else (and the leader could always tell her it was too much hassle for her to check in via text if that were actually the case).

 

This is exactly what the OP was asked to do, which made her fuming mad.

 

Everyone  here talking about being forced to use Facebook.  No.  All you have to do is take the initiative-- check with the leader, have a friend update you.   Why that's so unreasonable... I have no idea.

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How are they using photos for data and informational analysis? Maybe if the photo is tagged with a location...but a photo of my cat laying in the laundry basket? Are you saying they are using recognition software to find photos of cats in my photos to sell me cat food? If so, they are doing a terrible job...i don't get any cat food ads, lol.

We are getting better. It is going to take off in about two years. They are still training the machines.

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I am not convinced that someone who takes a random photo of my kids, or me, or anything else,in public is putting it into some number-crunching database. That seems like it would be an unusual occurrence.

Don't give anyone any ideas. :D

 

What do you think they are doing with that data? They are just going to sell it to someone who wants to sell you stuff and your data is quite overpriced at the moment because the goods of the application are still a couple of years away. They think better targeting is worth more than it is. And someone taking photos in public can sell them for pure profit.

 

I hate both but whatever... My privacy is non-existent so why not just deal?

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From your link, from FB's privacy novel:

 

"For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it."

 

Um, no thank you.

 

For Facebook to post the photos  at all, they need to have rights to the photos.  That is why these legalese exists.

But they also can't share them beyond what your privacy settings permit.  Their license only extends to what you set up and agree too. 

This can be universal (all images only seen by me & my mother), or it can be different for every photo.

 

And of course you never ever have to post any photos , or post any text,  to be in a group.

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I guess it pretty much isn't anymore, even for something like 4H which seems to (or at least used to) value things (animals, plants, nature) that may be in many ways the opposite of what FB or similar social media communication values are. 

 

A method of communication does not have values. It is a tool that can be used to support whatever values you choose. Technology itself is neutral.

 

For example, I run a website and companion facebook page for hiking in our area. Numerous people in the community have told me how much this resource helps them get out in nature more. 

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I haven't read all the responses, but there is an app called "GroupMe" that works pretty well for group texts (both android and iOS).  I prefer that to using FB for making sure people are informed in a group activity context.  (I'm not on FB and I would find it annoying to be required to sign up for a FB account to be informed about a group activity, but that's just me).

Edited by amsunshine

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I find a direct text MUCH more personal and invasive than a FB communication. In group situations where the other families are acquaintances and not close friends or family I would not be giving the group my phone number for communication purposes when everything, including FB, seems more secure to me. FB only has the information you type in. That can ALL be false and you’ll still get your messages.

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This thread has reminded me why I don't volunteer any more.

I was just thinking today how glad I am not to be a community leader for our 4-H club anymore. I have time to volunteer for one-off activities and board leadership now, and I like that so much better than parent wrangling.

Edited by Word Nerd
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But, how far do you go to accommodate every single persons preferences?  It's impossible to make everyone happy, even if you're willing to drive yourself nuts making sure everyone gets exactly what they want.

 

My 4-H club meets in the clubhouse at our lake.  It has two rooms, one small, one the size of a gymnasium, easily accessible bathrooms, fully handicap accessible, sinks, a kitchen and an easy to clean floor.  It's easy to do a variety of activities because of the space.  But, there is a bar upstairs.  It's not open when we have our meetings, the lights are all out, nobody is allowed up there, the kids don't even notice it.   But I've had people object to where we meet because of it.   

 

Finding a space to meet around here is extremely difficult.  Libraries only let you book once a month, can boot you out, can't do anything messy (I do science so....), and the rooms are fairly small.   Schools no longer let you use rooms unless every single adult is background checked and fingerprinted.  Including the parents who just walk in long enough to drop their kids off.  Plus there is a lot of stuff that we'd have to be careful of in a classroom.  Most rec centers, churches, etc. are already fully booked.  Most also don't have the space to do science with 20+ kids.

 

So, do I accommodate this person's problem by driving myself crazy trying to find another meeting location?  Dissolve the club because our location isn't good enough for this one person?  Or does their problem with it mean we aren't the right group for them and since the majority don't have a problem with it, we just keep doing what we're doing?

 

I actually find email and Facebook much easier than the "old" methods.  Even back then, things happened but since changes were harder to communicate, people showed up to find a note on the door.  

 

I don't think there is an answer to the question how much to accommodate.  Any more than, how much should the person who the situation doesn't suit compromise?  It really depends on the specific instance, what solutions there could possibly be, who happens to be involved.

 

My point was, it isn't a one sided question about how to approach solving it, if you are talking about a group meant to serve the community, which theoretically means anyone could want to join.  

 

Personally, I think the old method a lot simpler, as was stated above.  Turning up to find a note on the door was rare and not the end of the world.  The ability to change things up until the last moment causes a lot of trouble.

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Don't give anyone any ideas. :D

 

What do you think they are doing with that data? They are just going to sell it to someone who wants to sell you stuff and your data is quite overpriced at the moment because the goods of the application are still a couple of years away. They think better targeting is worth more than it is. And someone taking photos in public can sell them for pure profit.

 

I hate both but whatever... My privacy is non-existent so why not just deal?

 

I think that we haven't really seen how this kind of information is going to ed up being used.  Which maybe is why people aren't taking it that seriously.

 

But I think ultimately it will be used as a way to control masses of people through things like manipulating the information they see, targeting political and economic messages, and that kind of thing.  If they can make it work it's intelligence on a scale we've never seen in human history, and it works to disempower all but a few people/organizations with vast wealth behind them.

 

We already have political destabilization now being influenced in this way, and I don't think it's very developed yet.

 

I find it really a head scratcher that people feel that being highly dependent on infrastructure they have little ability to control is empowering in a robust way.  But maybe it is the illusion of control in things like privacy settings for individuals?  I don't know.

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I don't think there is an answer to the question how much to accommodate.  Any more than, how much should the person who the situation doesn't suit compromise?  It really depends on the specific instance, what solutions there could possibly be, who happens to be involved.

 

My point was, it isn't a one sided question about how to approach solving it, if you are talking about a group meant to serve the community, which theoretically means anyone could want to join.  

 

Personally, I think the old method a lot simpler, as was stated above.  Turning up to find a note on the door was rare and not the end of the world.  The ability to change things up until the last moment causes a lot of trouble.

 

Being one half hour late to a meeting where one's child is still able to participate as planned isn't the end of the world either.  And yet we have someone fuming and wanting to take it all the way up to the county leadership. 

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A method of communication does not have values. It is a tool that can be used to support whatever values you choose. Technology itself is neutral.

 

For example, I run a website and companion facebook page for hiking in our area. Numerous people in the community have told me how much this resource helps them get out in nature more. 

 

 

I'm not sure that people who study communications would agree that methods of communications don't have values.   Marshal McLuhan said that cultures are shaped by their form of communication more than the content of it - that seems pretty value laden to me.

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...

 

I have a friend whose husband has some particularly paranoid opinions about the staffing of a particular airline. It's limited the travel their kids can do with their teams out of state (we live in a geographically distant state, and driving is not generally a practical option.)

 

...

 

 

 

That is fascinating.  I am trying to figure out what would be so different, staffing-wise, about one airline over another?  Pilot training or some other vaguely safety-related thing?  Or something about the flight attendants?  Do tell!

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Being one half hour late to a meeting where one's child is still able to participate as planned isn't the end of the world either.  And yet we have someone fuming and wanting to take it all the way up to the county leadership. 

 

No, it's not.  I think people's expectations have changed significantly.

 

It probably works in different ways, to.  Something like changing the time by half an hour seems less likely when it means multiple phone calls to each family involved.  So things would just be more stable.

 

I find it interesting to watch other parents - most of the ones my age are fairly low-key but the younger ones - say under 33 - are really different in their orientation.  They want things like an app to show the school bus on it's way to pick up and drop off.  

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I'm not sure that people who study communications would agree that methods of communications don't have values.   Marshal McLuhan said that cultures are shaped by their form of communication more than the content of it - that seems pretty value laden to me.

 

Then how does that explain vast differences in cultural values though times when technology of communication was very limited?

 

Oral speeches, books, handwritten letters, typed leaflets, telephone calls, email, TV  - every medium can be used for good and for evil.

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Then how does that explain vast differences in cultural values though times when technology of communication was very limited?

 

Oral speeches, books, handwritten letters, typed leaflets, telephone calls, email, TV  - every medium can be used for good and for evil.

 

I don't imagine he thought it was the only thing.  Lots of things that have nothing to do with communication shape culture - the environment being the main one I can think of.

 

But for example, think of how oral cultures compare to cultures with writing.  It doesn't matter when or where this occurs, it has huge implications for what kind of culture it is - in fact often determines what the content is.

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Oh, I should have mentioned that GroupMe does not share your phone number or email with others in the group, if that is a concern. 

 

eta:  This is something that is just made for the situation the OP is in.  No one has to join FB if they don't want to.  No one has to share their phone number with anyone.  The group is created on the GroupMe app and people join the group, or leave the group when they are no longer affiliated with the activity.  Simple.  No one is offended or left out.  That's why I like it.  There may be other apps out there like it, but this is the one I've used that has been successful.  I've known other moms who've said their other parent groups use it too, with no issues.  

Edited by amsunshine
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Being one half hour late to a meeting where one's child is still able to participate as planned isn't the end of the world either.  And yet we have someone fuming and wanting to take it all the way up to the county leadership. 

 

And this is where someone's stance on FB is irrelevant. 

 

I happen to pretty much agree with most of what bluegoat said about FB. Doesn't give me the right to fume at volunteers.

 

Personally, I think being 30 min late is a great opportunity for kids to practice resilience. Learning how to cope with feeling flustered when something goes (mildly) wrong is a fabulous skill. 

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Otherwise it seems very reasonable to me for the OP to simply text the leader before meetings and verify the time is correct. 4-H meetings are once a month so we're not talking about requiring more than 15 seconds a month of extra time on the leader's part, or 30 seconds if there's a 2nd activity that month, and she doesn't have to remember anything extra. "Meeting tomorrow still at 6?" "Yes" or "No changed to 5:30". Done. (Or text your 4H friend, OP, and ask her every month.)

 

And while that might be a hassle for the leader if she's doing that for a bunch of different people or with multiple groups, the OP isn't responsible for any communications accomodations anyone else is asking for. She'd take responsibility for her own lack of FB access in a way that puts very minimal strain on anyone else (and the leader could always tell her it was too much hassle for her to check in via text if that were actually the case).

That may be the case in your area, but not in mine.  All of the 4-H clubs we are active with meet more than once a month.  We just finished robotics season, which is a meeting 3-5 days a week, depending on competition level, and that's for one club.  We participate with four different clubs, and I volunteer with three of them right now.  The idea that it's only 15 seconds just isn't realistic.

Edited by melmichigan
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That is fascinating.  I am trying to figure out what would be so different, staffing-wise, about one airline over another?  Pilot training or some other vaguely safety-related thing?  Or something about the flight attendants?  Do tell!

 

It's a conspiracy theory thing, and, quite frankly, deeply offensive, so I won't be specific. Truly not based in reality. But impacts his kids and would impact certain activities of any group that would try to accommodate his sincerely held belief in the name of inclusivity.

Edited by GoodGrief
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