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Oh, please tell me how to handle this. I'm fuming!


Meadowlark
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I don’t think it is useful to imply the ONLY reason for volunteer work is direct personal contact. That is effectively saying that volunteer work is only for extroverts. How about the individual who enjoys performing tasks/working with objects/ doing administrative work? Organizations also need those kinds of tasks done.

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I don’t think it is useful to imply the ONLY reason for volunteer work is direct personal contact. That is effectively saying that volunteer work is only for extroverts. How about the individual who enjoys performing tasks/working with objects/ doing administrative work? Organizations also need those kinds of tasks done.

Agreed. And many people volunteerimg for kid’s activities do it because they realize that if they don’t step up, their kids may not have the opportunities otherwise. I do tons of volunteering. Some of it I enjoy and some of it I don’t. I’ve gotten firm about my own boundaries.

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Agreed. And many people volunteerimg for kid’s activities do it because they realize that if they don’t step up, their kids may not have the opportunities otherwise. I do tons of volunteering. Some of it I enjoy and some of it I don’t. I’ve gotten firm about my own boundaries.

 

Yeah. The ONLY reason I stepped up for American Heritage Girls this year Is because my daughter wants to be part of it.   I can't do more than I'm doing but I'm doing what I can and thankfully a couple of other moms also stepped up to do what they can and together we are making it work (and no one is complaining). Its a kludge and it may yet fall apart because the overall leaders want to step down and that is more than I can do.  I dropped PTO just over a year ago because it was too much commitment and I don't have time for this but-- its for my kid.

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Several thoughts:

 

It is hard to be a volunteer leader, no doubt. I certainly won't declare this person a bad leader. If we want people to volunteer for positions, we can't make it even harder on them with shifting demands. 

 

It does seem weird to me that someone should have to rely on one private company in order to be part of an( unrelated to that company)  group. Like so many have pointed out, you are not limited to one company for email, phone/text service, snail mail, internet service etc.

 

People seem to agree that you should abide by the terms of the group you sign up with and not expect them to accommodate you. I can see that. Facebook has its own terms and that includes how you identify yourself on their service. Should people be telling the op to violate Facebooks usage rules while fussing that she is not abiding by the known communication standards of the 4h group? Facebook is very specific about how you identify yourself. 

 

As far as this site being compared to facebook: I am not terribly secretive on here, yet my bio father's latest wife hasn't tracked me down (despite many yrs) here but did on facebook in a matter of months. I wasn't specifically hiding from them, but it still made me uncomfortable (especially when she had her son contact my brother)...but the point being that there is a difference. I am comfortable with the terms of usage on this site. Not all social media is created equally. SWB provides an excellent product and service that I like. Facebook does not. Feeling that way does not make me ...anything other than someone who likes the hives and not facebook. I don't hate FB, I just don't like a lot about it.

 

I rely on my dh. He has a very locked down FB page (and has no problem handling anyone who comes out of the woodwork looking for me). He maintains our church's FB page. But we also email, text, and make calls if church has to close for weather or whatever. I hate to make calls, but I did it anyway when snow closed our church last Sunday.

 

I don't think that there are easy answers here. Leaders should not have to jump through a thousand hoops,but I don't think people should have to rely on facebook. I don't like that there are no other options here. Even if the op tries to "take responsibility" and contact the leader for changes from the published calendar, she is told that she is annoying the leader. That just seems harsh. 

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If you are a leader that has taken the time to send emails and had members say to your face "I don't have time to check email" or "I never open my email" then I sure don't blame them for deciding to forget the email mess and just post on FB.

 

I have witnessed it so many times and I always cringe. Seems so disrespectful to tell a volunteer leader you are too busy to read her emails.

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Re: Young people and facebook

 

Ds 20 is in a Dungeons and Dragons group that communicates through facebook. It's the only thing he uses it for. I think teens and young adults recognize the usefulness of fb as a communication tool and use it as such when necessary, but they just don't like it as social media. He and his friends either chat on Steam or some group text platform (I don't know what they use but it's not the text app that comes with his phone).

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The people that don't check their email... I want to know if this is because they don't get on the computer much or because they just don't like to check it that often? I have a few accounts and don't check them all the same frequency, but I I know which ones are more important (ie. the one I use to sign up for crap at the store is not going to have my homeschool notices).

 

from what I see, many people moved to fb on a mobile app on their phone for their prime communication  both with friends and for following up on events/organizing; their actual email inboxes are getting more and more empty.

 

They check email less because there is less there to check.  

 

Also, many people only set up 1 or 2 primary email accounts to access from their phone, and leave the others just for the computer - which again, they get to less and less. 

 

I have noticed it with group organization as well as with support groups. Our homeschooling yahoogroups are all pretty much dead - fb is where all the activities and questions are discussed.   i don't particularly like fb fwiw... but if that's how a majority chooses to communicate then you either suck it up or back out & accept that you won't hear about many things. 

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The people that don't check their email... I want to know if this is because they don't get on the computer much or because they just don't like to check it that often? I have a few accounts and don't check them all the same frequency, but I I know which ones are more important (ie. the one I use to sign up for crap at the store is not going to have my homeschool notices).

I find, "But I don't check/read emails" to be one of the lamest excuses ever invented. It's not that hard, truly.

 

ETA - I have already expressed what I'd do as the parent in this situation. As a volunteer leader, I would probably use two methods - fb groups and email (because personally I don't think it's all that hard to copy and paste). Phone calls and text messages would be reserved for on-the-ground, instant communications as needs arise (i.e., we are here in the crowd, standing by the flagpole; ran into road construction, be there in 15).

Edited by Seasider
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This thread is giving me flashbacks to my tenure as president of the booster club for about 60 competitive gymnasts. Yowza, there is just no way to do enough for some people. You emailed once? You should have emailed twice. You posted on FB? Well, you should have sent a note home as well. You single-handedly organized a sit-down banquet for 100 with no budget and no notice? Where is my vegetarian option? Can I get a discount if I skip dessert? You organized a complicated sale of spirit wear, and I missed all 14 notices about try-on dates, and my stuff does not fit—can get a refund? It sure made me dislike a lot of people for a while, and it gave me an entirely new perspective on true volunteers. My mantra now is not to complain unless the next words out of my mouth are going to be, “Here. Let me do that.â€

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What other apps or platforms are there, that have calendar or event options, file sharing/storage, photo sharing, etc? I'd actually like to explore other options. 

 

All of these modes of communication are completely useless if the people involved don't bother to use them. It's not the method of communication that causes most of the problems, it's people not taking the time and effort to use them in a timely and effective way. And it's not just the volunteer world that is problematic, there are just as many issues in the work environment.  

Edited by wintermom
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This thread is giving me flashbacks to my tenure as president of the booster club for about 60 competitive gymnasts. Yowza, there is just no way to do enough for some people. You emailed once? You should have emailed twice. You posted on FB? Well, you should have sent a note home as well. You single-handedly organized a sit-down banquet for 100 with no budget and no notice? Where is my vegetarian option? Can I get a discount if I skip dessert? You organized a complicated sale of spirit wear, and I missed all 14 notices about try-on dates, and my stuff does not fit—can get a refund? It sure made me dislike a lot of people for a while, and it gave me an entirely new perspective on true volunteers. My mantra now is not to complain unless the next words out of my mouth are going to be, “Here. Let me do that.â€

 

And the thing that makes it so frustrating is the justification:

 

Sending 2 emails is really not asking too much.

Copying and pasting into a flyer really isn't that big of a deal.

It isn't too much to ask to have a vegetarian option.

It isn't fair to pay for dessert if you don't eat it.

It is only right to be able to return stuff that doesn't fit.

 

All of those statements are pretty reasonable. But they eliminate the responsibility of the group members and put it all on the volunteer organizer. In that context, they are no longer reasonable.

 

ETA: Oh, and this whole stay up all night because it's all about the people & relationships - gag me with a spoon. Volunteers are people, too, with relationships of their own OUTSIDE of their volunteer duties and group members would be wise to remember that.

Edited by 8circles
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What other apps or platforms are there, that have calendar or event options, file sharing/storage, photo sharing, etc? I'd actually like to explore other options. 

 

Shutterfly has those features. IMO, it's even better than FB WRT to the features. But that's the platform we had to abandon to move over to FB, because people just wouldn't check it and we couldn't get business done. If you can get your members onto it, then it should work well for you. 

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This thread is giving me flashbacks to my tenure as president of the booster club for about 60 competitive gymnasts. Yowza, there is just no way to do enough for some people. You emailed once? You should have emailed twice. You posted on FB? Well, you should have sent a note home as well. You single-handedly organized a sit-down banquet for 100 with no budget and no notice? Where is my vegetarian option? Can I get a discount if I skip dessert? You organized a complicated sale of spirit wear, and I missed all 14 notices about try-on dates, and my stuff does not fit—can get a refund? It sure made me dislike a lot of people for a while, and it gave me an entirely new perspective on true volunteers. My mantra now is not to complain unless the next words out of my mouth are going to be, “Here. Let me do that.â€

 

I can relate so hard to this!  :cursing: :hurray:   In solidarity. 

 

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Why are people viewing this as being forced to use facebook?  My business has a website hosted somewhere.  If I tell people to go to my website to get x information or sign up for y, is that me forcing them to use my web host, or is it me using my web host and telling people where to conveniently find me?

 

If we are saying the local leader is expected to research and find a method that is as useful as facebook, also free (or covered by dues), and not ... whatever it is that facebook allegedly is to people who don't actually use it other than to keep up with groups on facebook, that is unfair.  You want it on a platform that does all of that, you set it up and make it just as easy for the leader (and all the other users) as facebook is.

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Most people in our demographic check facebook fairly regularly anyway, so I prefer that to opening new sites and how to learn yet another new system to navigate.  I already have dozens of different passwords and logins and cookies for sites I have to sign into to get things done.  Less is more.  I will do it if I have to, but I will be a lot happier if I don't have to.  And I think the majority of folks in my groups feel the same.

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Shutterfly has those features. IMO, it's even better than FB WRT to the features. But that's the platform we had to abandon to move over to FB, because people just wouldn't check it and we couldn't get business done. If you can get your members onto it, then it should work well for you. 

 

 

Shutterfly’s system is nice.

 

Ugh. I dislike Shutterfly. Since I never use it except to access one group, I always forget the password, need to reset it, and then forget that password. But I don't complain (except just now) because the leadership is working hard to create a good experience for my child and I don't have the ability health-wise to take over any more volunteer activities.

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I can't believe y'all are on page 8 about this...

 

 

A subject about which many of us have strong opinions or feelings.

 

A few of us have strong feelings about FB.  Probably many of us have been frustrated by either trying to run a group as volunteer, or trying to get info about what is going on in a group, or misinformation, or more than one of those.

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Ugh. I dislike Shutterfly. Since I never use it except to access one group, I always forget the password, need to reset it, and then forget that password. But I don't complain (except just now) because the leadership is working hard to create a good experience for my child and I don't have the ability health-wise to take over any more volunteer activities.

 

Yep, I always had the same problem :lol: And you probably just described one of the reasons why we couldn't get people to keep up with group business there vs. on FB, where most of our members check in at least daily. But it's feature-rich for groups like ours, so if someone is looking for an alternative to FB, that's the best one I've found. 

Edited by ILiveInFlipFlops
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Shutterfly has those features. IMO, it's even better than FB WRT to the features. But that's the platform we had to abandon to move over to FB, because people just wouldn't check it and we couldn't get business done. If you can get your members onto it, then it should work well for you. 

Ugg.  When we had an outcry over using Facebook for dd's climbing team, we tried Shutterfly and it was terrible. I'm fairly tech savvy and I struggled with it.  The site is buggy.  It not that accessible via smart phone.  Only half the messages got through to the people who needed them.  The Calendar and Attendance features crashed my computer every single time and would not come up at all on my smart phone.  As a result, people stopped using it and we are back to using Facebook.  The coaches do send emails on occasion, but they sometimes forget to add new people to the list (they are not the best administrators ... they are great coaches.)  I tried to take over communication, but there were issues with getting access to me for to email addresses.  I feel for people who don't want Facebook, but they ended up just setting up a very locked-down account and get notifications on the groups that matter to them.

 

Ugh. I dislike Shutterfly. Since I never use it except to access one group, I always forget the password, need to reset it, and then forget that password. But I don't complain (except just now) because the leadership is working hard to create a good experience for my child and I don't have the ability health-wise to take over any more volunteer activities.

Ooh, I hated the password issue.  Nothing like having to request a new password, wait for the email, reset it and then be able to go in at send the message and hope that it gets to everyone.  All for one simple message.

 

I just wasted to add a huge Kudos to all the volunteers out there.  

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So, I've not read all the replies.

 

But I'm a volunteer who coordinates lots of things. In fact, I had so much to do over the last couple of days that I didnt even sleep at all from Monday morning until late wednesday. And it's not a big deal to me to post on facebook, screenshot it and then text it to the few who need it. I do it all the time.

 

The op was in a Facebook group with 6 people. The volunteer can send a text. If I'm in a group, especially leading, of 6 people, I know them pretty well. I make a point of that. I can easily avoid schedule conflicts, and keep everything running smoothly by having a relationship with the people I'm spending time with. "Hey Sue, does Joey still have gymnastics on Tuesday?" "Ok, great, I can schedule the awards banquet that night?"

 

Groups are about the people, and connections with the people. Good leadership is about the people.

 

I find this ridiculous.

I think that getting that little sleep isn't healthy. Maybe you could delegate some of the tasks?
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It just occurred to me: Do the groups that use fb put the kids' pictures and names on their Facebook page? [emoji15]

You can have completely private fb groups. These aren't pages that anyone can visit. You won't even know the pages exist if you're not invited - they won't show on any searches. 

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It just occurred to me: Do the groups that use fb put the kids' pictures and names on their Facebook page? [emoji15]

 

In private members-only groups, and only with permission.  Is standard in the -- 6? 8? -- Facebook groups I'm in. 

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And the thing that makes it so frustrating is the justification:

 

Sending 2 emails is really not asking too much.

Copying and pasting into a flyer really isn't that big of a deal.

It isn't too much to ask to have a vegetarian option.

It isn't fair to pay for dessert if you don't eat it.

It is only right to be able to return stuff that doesn't fit.

 

All of those statements are pretty reasonable. But they eliminate the responsibility of the group members and put it all on the volunteer organizer. In that context, they are no longer reasonable.

 

ETA: Oh, and this whole stay up all night because it's all about the people & relationships - gag me with a spoon. Volunteers are people, too, with relationships of their own OUTSIDE of their volunteer duties and group members would be wise to remember that.

 

Just this week I had a woman send me twelve private FB messages to justify her request to save $4 on an event (she registered after the deadline for the lower price tier; I don't' set the price).  And then put an eye roll emoji about prices and deadlines in the group page.    

 

 

For an event I set up.  That her kid spent hours at and really enjoyed.  That she failed to sign up for after many reminders.  On Facebook and email, I may add. 

 

Over $4.

 

Do you think there was a thank you? Ha!!

 

That's why this thread is 8 pages.  Because this nonsense  happens way too often.   People treat volunteers like servants,  and get mad over petty stuff, and think it's "not unreasonable" to feel that way, and aaargh.

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Just this week I had a woman send me twelve private FB messages to justify her request to save $4 on an event (she registered after the deadline for the lower price tier; I don't' set the price).  And then put an eye roll emoji about prices and deadlines in the group page.    

Have you noticed how fb is so glitchy sometimes and it just auto blocks people all on its own. Weird how that is.... 

 

:D 

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You can have completely private fb groups. These aren't pages that anyone can visit. You won't even know the pages exist if you're not invited - they won't show on any searches.

I understand that, but you have to have a Facebook account to use the Groups. It's against FB TOS to use a fake name, so I wouldn't do that. I use my phone for most communications, and would not want to access FB from my phone because then FB gets access to my contact list and who knows what else with the now mandatory Messenger.

 

Edited to add: when photos are uploaded to Facebook, Facebook owns them. The children's photos are there whether it's private or public and I don't like or particularly trust that company.

Edited by Sandwalker
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I understand that, but you have to have a Facebook account to use the Groups. It's against FB TOS to use a fake name, so I wouldn't do that. I use my phone for most communications, and would not want to access FB from my phone because then FB gets access to my contact list and who knows what else with the now mandatory Messenger.

 

Edited to add: when photos are uploaded to Facebook, Facebook owns them. The children's photos are there whether it's private or public and I don't like or particularly trust that company.

not trying to convince you either way but just as a point of information you can have  fb & fb messenger on your phone & deny it access to your contacts on your phone.  

 

I have no problem violating TOS for them. What's the worst that will happen - they kick you off. Whoopdeedoo. 

 

And the other part of the issue is that anyone else at any outing might take a photo of you or your family and upload it to any social media site - incl to facebook.   I sometimes think it's better to be there so you can see what's being uploaded.  If anyone tries to id me in a photo I'll get notified. 

 

Again, I don't have warm fuzzy feelings for fb and I have issues with many things they're doing so I'm not defending the platform...

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I understand that, but you have to have a Facebook account to use the Groups. It's against FB TOS to use a fake name, so I wouldn't do that. I use my phone for most communications, and would not want to access FB from my phone because then FB gets access to my contact list and who knows what else with the now mandatory Messenger.

 

Edited to add: when photos are uploaded to Facebook, Facebook owns them. The children's photos are there whether it's private or public and I don't like or particularly trust that company.

 

No,you don't have to give access to your contacts.  

No, Facebook doesn't own photos you upload unless you give consent.

Where are you getting all this  bad info?

 

But really, no one has to use Facebook.  This isn't a case of someone being required to use Facebook. 

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No,you don't have to give access to your contacts.

No, Facebook doesn't own photos you upload unless you give consent.

Where are you getting all this bad info?

 

But really, no one has to use Facebook. This isn't a case of someone being required to use Facebook.

From your link, from FB's privacy novel:

 

"For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it."

 

Um, no thank you.

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From your link, from FB's privacy novel:

 

"For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it."

 

Um, no thank you.

 

As the link says, YOU control how those photos are used. if I set a post/photo to friends only, that's who can see them. If I set it to public, anyone who clicks on my account can see them. If I delete it, no one can. The license is so that when i put "friends" on my settings my friends can actually see them. 

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The groups my kids are in - choir, sports, etc. all use Shutterfly to communicate. Not one of them uses Facebook. You can view a calendar, make a roster of who is in the group, post pictures, send a group email reminder, etc. If you don't want to use Facebook then tell the leader you will set up a group Shutterfly account and be in charge of it.

 

https://www.shutterfly.com/sites/create/welcome.sfly?fid=134ceeedcbe4ac56

 

My son's hockey team uses shutterfly. His debate uses email. All of my dd's sports and activities use text and/or email exclusively. Not one group they've ever belonged to used Facebook.

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As the link says, YOU control how those photos are used. if I set a post/photo to friends only, that's who can see them. If I set it to public, anyone who clicks on my account can see them. If I delete it, no one can. The license is so that when i put "friends" on my settings my friends can actually see them.

You are giving Facebook the right to use your photos by posting them there. That's not OK with me, YMMV. I know many people use and enjoy Facebook, it's great that we each can choose what we do and don't make use of.
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You are giving Facebook the right to use your photos by posting them there. That's not OK with me, YMMV. I know many people use and enjoy Facebook, it's great that we each can choose what we do and don't make use of.

 

Use them how? It specifically says that how they use them is determined by your privacy settings. If I set it to friends, Facebook only lets friends see them. Period. The only "using" them they are doing is showing them to my friends, which was the whole point of me posting them with the "friends" level of privacy. If I put "only me" as the privacy, only I see them. Etc. 

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Messenger is not mandatory.

 

You don't have to post (or allow others to post) photos of your kids on fb.  Though I don't see what the big deal is.  My kids are two of a billion kids that everyone knows exist.  I don't veil them when they walk down the street either.

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PS I heard that facebook changed their policy and now allows fake names.  I use a fake name and it sure doesn't keep me up at night.

Yeah, I am friends with a lot of military wives (obviously, lol).  A few years ago there must have been an OPSEC briefing or something, because all of a sudden a bunch of them changed their names, not to "fake" names, but to variations.  So for example "Allison Jamieson" would become "Al Meeson" or someone who was "Janet" with a color last name became "Jay" with a last name of that color in a different language.  Obviously they weren't taking on a new identity or trying to be deceitful, but it did make them (and their husbands) more secure.  And none of them have had any issues with FB kicking them off or whatever.  So I think you don't have to use your full, legal name, but I also don't think you want to try "Miss Rainbow Pony" either, you know?

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Use them how? It specifically says that how they use them is determined by your privacy settings. If I set it to friends, Facebook only lets friends see them. Period. The only "using" them they are doing is showing them to my friends, which was the whole point of me posting them with the "friends" level of privacy. If I put "only me" as the privacy, only I see them. Etc. 

 

Use them for data purposes.  Compiling profiles, information analysis, etc.  To decide what kind of person you are.  

 

Privacy settings are only about what you show other users.  Though, they can also change their privacy policies any time, without telling you, and have in the past.

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Why? Not all commercial entities are created equal. Just like I don’t purchase items from some companies I have issues with, I can choose to use or not use some communication platforms.

 

My primary reasons for not liking or using Facebook haven’t even been mentioned in this thread, but they are not strong enough that I wouldn’t do as many have suggested an open a fake account and link the email if I belonged to a group that communicated only via Facebook.

From a practical point of view here, the mods do not own this platform. They pay to use it. Re-read the terms of agreement if you are worried, because many platforms sell your data.

 

In addition, I feel sorry for this leader. No good deed goes unpunished. Volunteer to manage a group and someone will complain to you to the volunteer coordinator for not doing it their way.

 

I would probably quit if that were me.

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Shutterfly has those features. IMO, it's even better than FB WRT to the features. But that's the platform we had to abandon to move over to FB, because people just wouldn't check it and we couldn't get business done. If you can get your members onto it, then it should work well for you. 

 

I personally have no problem with this; however, it's been brought up that people don't want to have to be beholden to one company. Wouldn't using Shutterfly give the same complaint? You only have 1 choice. You'd have to have an account there just like you would on Facebook in order to participate.  

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If you are a leader that has taken the time to send emails and had members say to your face "I don't have time to check email" or "I never open my email" then I sure don't blame them for deciding to forget the email mess and just post on FB.

 

I have witnessed it so many times and I always cringe. Seems so disrespectful to tell a volunteer leader you are too busy to read her emails.

 

Yes, I've never quite understood this attitude about not having time to check messages either - what do they want, personal fairies delivering the message? I wonder if what they really mean is, I'm not in the habit of checking my email? Now, if they were on dial-up, had no internet, etc, I'd see that differently.  But then, FB wouldn't be available either.

 

My tendency for responding to "no time" wouldn't really be to change what I'm doing though.

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From your link, from FB's privacy novel:

 

"For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it."

 

Um, no thank you.

More bad news:

 

Your presence in public grants literally any photographer the same rights.

 

I know. I hate that too.

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I personally have no problem with this; however, it's been brought up that people don't want to have to be beholden to one company. Wouldn't using Shutterfly give the same complaint? You only have 1 choice. You'd have to have an account there just like you would on Facebook in order to participate.  

 

Yeah, it would, potentially.

 

Now, people might not have the same issues with Shutterfly - so, it might be that it wasn't a problem in the same way.  Whereas quite a ew people have issues with FB.  So it kind of becomes a bit like compelling everyone in the group to sell Nestle chocolate bars, or, I don't know, Monsanto weed killers, for a fundraiser.  You'll get more objections than you would selling local vegetable boxes.

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