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Thoughts so far? Looks like we won’t be able to see the men’s free skate on network tv tonight. Anyone want to add your commentary when it’s live?

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Missed it completely so far. We have no cable.

Maybe there is a way to tunnel-bear into some coverage.

Thanks for the reminder.

 

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Watched the women last night, and was really impressed by some of newer ladies. Starr Andrews not only skated beautifully, she did some of the vocals for her music...so amazing!

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Ashley Wagner's reaction to judge's score - totally inappropriate.  She behaves poorly and I think she's a poor example for upcoming skaters.

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Dd just started skating last fall, and is falling in love with pairs event.

 

After watching the quad throw attempt and a botched lift (the worst wedgie ever), I’m okay with the fact she’s starting lessons too late to be very competitive.

Edited by Acorn
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I’ve never been a Wagner fan and have been thinking she should retire for awhile.

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Ashley Wagner's reaction to judge's score - totally inappropriate. She behaves poorly and I think she's a poor example for upcoming skaters.

I thought the reaction was more of a recognition that score would not be high enough to place. It didn't seem like she thought it was unfair, but more a general disappointment for herself.

 

I do think she should have retired. I never liked her style in the first place.

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I am a figure skating fan; the competition is recorded but have not had an opportunity to watch. I like Ashley Wagner, but she has to earn her spot on the Olympic team. On the other hand, I'm thrilled for Mirai Nagasu, who has had a number of very difficult seasons.

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Wagner popped a jump and it cost her big points - points that would have made a difference.  She didn't deserve a spot this time. There are better women who came up behind her. It's their turn to shine. 

 

Fun fact - Ashley's Wagner's first skating instructor back when she was a little kid living in Alaska was my son's ice dance coach who got him to Nationals.

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I thought the reaction was more of a recognition that score would not be high enough to place. It didn't seem like she thought it was unfair, but more a general disappointment for herself.

 

I do think she should have retired. I never liked her style in the first place.

No, she blasted the judges after the competition. She thought she deserved higher scores.

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Ashley Wagner's reaction to judge's score - totally inappropriate.  She behaves poorly and I think she's a poor example for upcoming skaters.

I agree.  She acted like her winning was a foregone conclusion rather than her being more of an outside shot based upon previous performance.  4 years ago, I didn't think she deserved the Olympic spot over Mirai. Even before the competition, I was sick of seeing her smug face on all the promos.  As a result, I felt that there was pressure from the Olympic committee and the sponsors who had invested so much in her as being the next big American star.  

 

I thought the reaction was more of a recognition that score would not be high enough to place. It didn't seem like she thought it was unfair, but more a general disappointment for herself.

 

I do think she should have retired. I never liked her style in the first place.

 

No.  She did actually say that the judging was unfair.  She has since dialed it back, but the cynical side of me thinks that her handlers told her that her attitude was costing her sponsorship dollars.  

 

I was moved to tears by Star and Mirai.  

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I agree. She acted like her winning was a foregone conclusion rather than her being more of an outside shot based upon previous performance. 4 years ago, I didn't think she deserved the Olympic spot over Mirai. Even before the competition, I was sick of seeing her smug face on all the promos. As a result, I felt that there was pressure from the Olympic committee and the sponsors who had invested so much in her as being the next big American star.

 

 

No. She did actually say that the judging was unfair. She has since dialed it back, but the cynical side of me thinks that her handlers told her that her attitude was costing her sponsorship dollars.

 

I was moved to tears by Star and Mirai.

I saw an article today that said that Wagner’s tantrum cost her a spot in the team.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I can see why they wanted to dump Wagner, to be honest.  She was unpleasant at the last Olympics and her recent body of work was not as good as Chen's, so it makes sense that they'd prefer Chen over her.  Even if she was low-scored on purpose, which is kind of a cowardly way to go about it, I can see why they did it (and they were proven right by her reaction afterward).

 

I like Mirai Nagasu a lot.  I like the way she skates.

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We cannot see it (no cable account). Usually we send our Tunnel Bear to do the job but it appears the Canadians are not broadcasting this - yet.

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I am no great scorer or commentator on figure skating. I can’t argue that Ashley Wagner is ‘right’ in her protests.

 

But she’s always said what she thinks, and women who do that will always be criticized. My guess is that if she wouldn’t trade her right to speak her mind for a spot on the Olympic team no matter how badly she wanted it. If that’s how the selection process works, that makes me mad too! I hope that’s not how it works.

 

I think the top three skaters earned their spots in the Olympic team. But I like Ashley and I am sad for her.

Edited by Danestress
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I watch it afterward on youtube; we don't have a TV :)

 

You can probably stream it realtime on bosscast

 

 

Thanks for the tip. We were not aware of bosscast.  :)

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I saw an article today that said that Wagner’s tantrum cost her a spot in the team.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Well her skating was not as good as the others. Additionally, her record this season is subpar. Tantrum or not, she should never have been in consideration. If they were even considering her for the team, something is terribly wrong with the selection process.

 

I thought the comments about her behavior were related to her behavior in Kiss and cry. I actually didn't see she had interviews and what she said (I went to bed due to early work schedule) If she had a tantrum later I did not see it and my comments do not reflect that.

 

 

I actually don't think general temper tantrums should affect team selection (for more extreme behavior, there may be consideration for whether it affects the training and performance of team mates or if it has an affect on the team overall)

 

Selection should be

1. Performance at competition

2. Consistency of performance over the current season

3. Consistency of performance of other competitors over the current season.

 

(IOW if her performance had been better and still scored just outside of medals AND she had had significantly better performances at every competition all season AND someone who did place higher had had very inconsistent performances all season, then maybe considering her for the team would be appropriate. That is not what happened.)

 

The punishment for general tantrums (whining "I am owed more") is loss of sponsorships. That is huge in skating since that is the main way to get paid. The additional cost is potential work commenting for news organizations on future competitions. Any 26 year old who doesn't understand this is really stupid. At that age she is unlikely to compete well again so that how her career is remembered, thus reducing her chance to earn anything from her career. Someone who is younger may be able to roar back in later competitions and have relevant opportunities to show she's learned sportsmanship to redeem herself to the public.

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Well her skating was not as good as the others. Additionally, her record this season is subpar. Tantrum or not, she should never have been in consideration. If they were even considering her for the team, something is terribly wrong with the selection process.

 

I thought the comments about her behavior were related to her behavior in Kiss and cry. I actually didn't see she had interviews and what she said (I went to bed due to early work schedule) If she had a tantrum later I did not see it and my comments do not reflect that.

 

 

I actually don't think general temper tantrums should affect team selection (for more extreme behavior, there may be consideration for whether it affects the training and performance of team mates or if it has an affect on the team overall)

 

Selection should be

1. Performance at competition

2. Consistency of performance over the current season

3. Consistency of performance of other competitors over the current season.

 

(IOW if her performance had been better and still scored just outside of medals AND she had had significantly better performances at every competition all season AND someone who did place higher had had very inconsistent performances all season, then maybe considering her for the team would be appropriate. That is not what happened.)

 

The punishment for general tantrums (whining "I am owed more") is loss of sponsorships. That is huge in skating since that is the main way to get paid. The additional cost is potential work commenting for news organizations on future competitions. Any 26 year old who doesn't understand this is really stupid. At that age she is unlikely to compete well again so that how her career is remembered, thus reducing her chance to earn anything from her career. Someone who is younger may be able to roar back in later competitions and have relevant opportunities to show she's learned sportsmanship to redeem herself to the public.

The thing about the Olympics is that you are representing your country. I think that makes sportsmanship or the lack of it a consideration as well.

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The thing about the Olympics is that you are representing your country. I think that makes sportsmanship or the lack of it a consideration as well.

I get that. I think it really is subjective to how bad it is perceived. We've had people who were known not to behave well selected.

 

It is a competition after all. If I'm watching a competition I want to see the people who really are the best skilled compete. If the best skilled person is left out because he's a doofus, it really ruins the excitement of the competition itself. And it devalues the performances of this who do win, because there will always be the cloud of X wasn't there so we'll never know if the winner really was the best skilled.

 

That's why it's a balance. You don't want whiney bad sports on the team, but you do want to win and have a competition that reflects the true top level athletes.

Edited by Diana P.

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I get that. I think it really is subjective to how bad it is perceived. We've had people who were known not to behave well selected.

 

It is a competition after all. If I'm watching a competition I want to see the people who really are the best skilled compete. If the best skilled person is left out because he's a doofus, it really ruins the excitement of the competition itself. And it devalues the performances of this who do win, because there will always be the cloud of X wasn't there so we'll never know if the winner really was the best skilled.

 

That's why it's a balance. You don't want whiney bad spots on the team, but you do want to win and have a competition that reflects the true top level athletes.

 

 

This is true, and if she were a world class top skater, or even one with a chance to medal in the Olympics, I think they would have been more willing to overlook the whining (both this year and 4 years ago).  the combination of not being all that great plus being kind of a poor sport about it doomed her.  

 

interestingly, the absolute best in their sport never seem to be nearly as unpleasant (at least not at the time of their dominance); I guess there's less to complain about when you're the unquestioned best.  Simone Biles, for instance, never seems anything but absolutely gracious.

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I get that. I think it really is subjective to how bad it is perceived. We've had people who were known not to behave well selected.

 

It is a competition after all. If I'm watching a competition I want to see the people who really are the best skilled compete. If the best skilled person is left out because he's a doofus, it really ruins the excitement of the competition itself. And it devalues the performances of this who do win, because there will always be the cloud of X wasn't there so we'll never know if the winner really was the best skilled.

 

That's why it's a balance. You don't want whiney bad spots on the team, but you do want to win and have a competition that reflects the true top level athletes.

 

But part of her bad sportsmanship was a "I should have gotten better scores because I really wasn't that bad".  Ie.  she didn't really have a realistic view of her own performance.  I do realize that there have been scoring scandals in the past where things seemed subjectively stacked but this doesn't seem to be one of those. 

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But part of her bad sportsmanship was a "I should have gotten better scores because I really wasn't that bad". Ie. she didn't really have a realistic view of her own performance. I do realize that there have been scoring scandals in the past where things seemed subjectively stacked but this doesn't seem to be one of those.

I agree she wasn't realistic. She probably is unrealistic about her generally crappy season this year.

 

My statements are in general, not specifically to Wagner, but they do apply. The athlete's behavior has to be weighed against his actually skill by the selection committee. If the athlete has the skill to be truly competitive, then the committee needs to evaluate how bad the behavior is.

 

Say Wagner had an amazing season. Say her performance in all parts of the competition were better than she posted, but three other women still scored higher. At that point the discussion would be concern about someone who has been performing better in international competition recently. The person who is most recently consistent internationally is likely the best skilled and it would take away from the competition part of the Olympics to not have that person compete.

 

Wagner's behavior should not come into play for team consideration because she never displayed she was actually better skilled this season. If she actually had displayed better skill, then there would be a quandary for the selection committee. (How bad is the behavior? Will the behavior affect other team mates? Etc)

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I agree she wasn't realistic. She probably is unrealistic about her generally crappy season this year.

 

My statements are in general, not specifically to Wagner, but they do apply. The athlete's behavior has to be weighed against his actually skill by the selection committee. If the athlete has the skill to be truly competitive, then the committee needs to evaluate how bad the behavior is.

 

Say Wagner had an amazing season. Say her performance in all parts of the competition were better than she posted, but three other women still scored higher. At that point the discussion would be concern about someone who has been performing better in international competition recently. The person who is most recently consistent internationally is likely the best skilled and it would take away from the competition part of the Olympics to not have that person compete.

 

Wagner's behavior should not come into play for team consideration because she never displayed she was actually better skilled this season. If she actually had displayed better skill, then there would be a quandary for the selection committee. (How bad is the behavior? Will the behavior affect other team mates? Etc)

Oh I agree. But we don’t really know if the article I read about why she wasn’t selected was accurate in reporting her tantrum as reason for her not being selected . There was no direct quote from the selection committee listing that as a cause. So much of today’s reporting seems to be on the editorial side of things. It gives us fodder for discussions like this but few hard facts. My own biases don’t want a spoilsport to be selected but you are absolutely correct about how they should choose the team.

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Who will be 2nd and 3rd named to the men’s Olympic team?

 

I had hoped Jason Brown would have had a better result.

 

Can I just say 1) I miss the 80s because figure skating received better tv coverage and 2) I hate football and how dare nbc choose that over men’s national finals?

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I dont see how saying, “I am furious, I think this was wrong,†it’s a “tantrum.†Maybe I missed the part you are referring to.

 

When her scores were posted, she gave her head a little shake and raised an eyebrow. Later she told a reporter she was furious. No throwing skates, no shouting, no mentioning other skaters by name, no stomping.

 

What “tantrum†did I miss?

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I agree she wasn't realistic. She probably is unrealistic about her generally crappy season this year.

 

My statements are in general, not specifically to Wagner, but they do apply. The athlete's behavior has to be weighed against his actually skill by the selection committee. If the athlete has the skill to be truly competitive, then the committee needs to evaluate how bad the behavior is.

 

Say Wagner had an amazing season. Say her performance in all parts of the competition were better than she posted, but three other women still scored higher. At that point the discussion would be concern about someone who has been performing better in international competition recently. The person who is most recently consistent internationally is likely the best skilled and it would take away from the competition part of the Olympics to not have that person compete.

 

Wagner's behavior should not come into play for team consideration because she never displayed she was actually better skilled this season. If she actually had displayed better skill, then there would be a quandary for the selection committee. (How bad is the behavior? Will the behavior affect other team mates? Etc)

 

USA Today has an article dissecting the possible reasons the selection committee passed on Wagner:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2018/01/06/winter-olympics-ashley-wagner-not-going-pyeongchang/1010584001/

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Adam Rippon certainly had the opposite experience of Wagner. I thought he was very gracious after what was not a great program, and he was clearly rewarded for both his attitude and his other performances this season.

 

Also, I love the couple that won pairs' gold. They were so amazing on the ice...oldest ds happened by as I was watching highlights from their long program, and was shocked at the throws. I think his exact words were: "How is she still alive?!?" :) And they're so adorable...I love married couples who skate together!

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Sigh. Could not access it last night. Maybe someone posted it somewhere today. 

I 'd like seeing it even if it's not live.

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That was a weird article - the idea that the judges were biased against her (and toward Tennell) because Tennell can land all of her jumps and Wagner can't, and landing jumps is the new thing in figure skating - I dunno.  I mean, if the US judges can see that internationally, the Russian style (which is evidently landing jumps?) is in favor, why wouldn't they want to send skaters who can compete in that style?  Furthermore, is the author really arguing that Wagner should have gone instead of Bradie Tennell?

 

As for the idea that she's the most accomplished US skater in the last 5 or 6 years - yes, that is true.  But the selection committee really only cares (at least the stated criteria say they only care) about the past world championships and current nationals.  In both of those, Wagner fell behind Chen; if the argument is, well, she used to be good!  Not a great argument in figure skating (or women's gymnastics, for instance).

 

I can see the committee choosing someone who came in 4th instead of someone who came in 3rd, but they weren't going to bump Nagasu for Wagner again, and they can't bump the winner of the competition for Wagner.

 

So the question that was left was just, did they underscore Wagner so they wouldn't have to bump her for Chen (Wagner wasn't going to win in any case, or come in 2nd, as far as I can tell)?  Probably they did, because they got a lot of flack 4 years ago bumping Nagasu for Wagner and didn't want the drama again.

 

Personally I think they should have given Wagner her PCS scores, let her come in 3rd, then taken Chen to the Olympics.

 

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