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Old School

Big Question about education?

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I’m new here and a father of two home schoolers.

I would love your feedback concerning one of the most important aspects of all of our lives.

MONEY Management.

Why is it that our country faced with so much personal debt that we don’t require in high school

at least one full year say in the 12th grade or even earlier money management. Why do most college educated adults leave college having never learned the power and principles of the Rule of 72 and the power of compounding and that the earlier one begins dollar cost averaging in life the more they will have in retirement? If you asked a college grad to define a well balanced asset allocation plan or the difference in a traditional IRA and a Roth IRA could they? In this course we could teach how ones personal value and success in life will be directly proportional to the value they add to the world and others. The more value we add to others, the more money and success we are most likely to see.

My proof education like this is needed in our country is in as they say, the pudding. This education would affect not only personal finances but our entire national economic security and politics in many ways.

So, why is it in our country that we don’t require something so important yet we require Algebra 2, which in 54 years I’ve never met one person who told me they actually use in their daily tasks at work. From engineers to architects I’ve personally known, not one has said they use it. They may use a computer APP but as far as spending their companies time and money on long math all day, no, that’s not productive nor profitable.

 

When are we going to realize we need to require teaching Money Management?

Edited by Old School

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I believe that my state does require a personal finance course. It's one semester long. I know that many people use Dave Ramsey materials, but there are others, too. My kids are younger, but I hear enough people at our co-op talk about it that I think it's one of those things, like public speaking or typing or a fine arts credit, that students are supposed to do sometime during the 4 years of high school.

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I am all for financial education, and many schools require a personal finance course,  but I find some of your statements puzzling:

 

In this course we could teach how ones personal value and success in life will be directly proportional to the value they add to the world and others. The more value we add to others, the more money and success we are most likely to see.

 

How do you define "value we add to others"? You are on a homeschool board here, and this statement is highly offensive to many parents here who stay home to educate their children and would argue that parenting and educating adds a lot of value, but does not lead to money. And how do you define "success"?

 

Adding value to others' lives has absolutely nothing to do with finances, nor does it lead to material gain.

 


So, why is it in our country that we don’t require something so important yet we require Algebra 2, which in 54 years I’ve never met one person who told me they actually use in their daily tasks at work. From engineers to architects I’ve personally known, not one has said they use it. They may use a computer APP but as far as spending their companies time and money on long math all day, no, that’s not productive nor profitable.

 

As a physicist, I know plenty of people who use algebra 2 and higher math in their work, and who spend a substantial part of their day on mathematics that they cannot relegate to a computer. And how do you think the computer gets programmed to perform calculations?

 

You say that you want a financial education. Understanding compounding and calculating mortgage interests etc requires math skills at algebra 2 level. You cannot have a thorough financial education without  math.

 

Lastly, I don't think the problem is a mere lack of financial education, but the inability of many people to delay gratification. 

 

 

Edited by regentrude
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My kids won't necessarily have a personal finance course on their transcript, but we will have covered many of the same ideas, including budgeting and investing, in a very practical and hands-on way. It isn't a school subject here - it is life.

 

Even my math-hating kid knows the importance of not spending more than you earn. We model, talk, and give chances to apply it early and often. Some kids take longer than others to "get it". A class is one moment in time- easy to blow off.

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We don't require cooking, either.

 

 

I think a good grounding in economics (which, btw, is required) and government/civics, both how they relate on a personal, national, and global level will do us a lot more good than requiring an outside course on money management.  Most people are in debt because of things out of their personal control - stagnated wages, poor social support, spiraling costs, and faulty beliefs that prosperity is directly related to how hard they work and "success". 

 

 

I'm not saying parents shouldn't teach money management. They absolutely should, just like they should teach cooking and life skills.  But I think your reasoning is unsound.

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“How do you define "value we add to others"? You are on a homeschool board here, and this statement is highly offensive to many parents here who stay home to educate their children and would argue that parenting and educating adds a lot of value, but does not lead to money. And how do you define "success"?â€

 

I wonder how Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Tony Robbins, Opra, Mark Zuckerberg, or other highly successful people would define “value we add to othersâ€. Success is not all about money. Adding value to others lives is not all about money. I certainly did not mean to insult anyone.

 

I merely asked why we don’t require teaching money management more and was trying to point out not emotion but fact as we look out at our country and how personal debt is but one pay check away from disaster. We need to fix this with education.

How do we teach future generations how to manage money better? It affects not only their personal lives but our nation as a whole.

 

As far as Algebra 2, I’m sure there are many people who need it, and I was only trying to point out it’s totally useless to those who don’t. The above mentioned billionaires most likely do not need Algebra 2 in their daily lives.

 

As far as the power of compounding and using Allegra 2, I use the money chimp app.

 

I apologize if I offended you or anyone else.

Edited by Old School

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I agree with whomever said financial independence is more related to the ability to delay gratification and to the concept of contentment than it is to financial literacy.

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As I look at our economy and the sorry state of personal finances from the highly educated to the poor, I ask myself, does it have anything to do with cooking skills?

 

The answer is no. It has to do with a total lack of education and training how to make money with money. It has to do with a brain washed society that teaches college is the correct destination after high school before real life begins. College has created in our youth over $1.3 trillion in personal debt and its only moving higher.

 

Most graduates leave with a diploma and an average debt of $45,000 and sometimes triple or even more.

 

Success is not merely measured by a college education.

 

My architect and engineer friends tell me all the time colleges are turning out kids right out of college who want big money but can’t function in the real world. They must totally relearn what colleges fail to teach. This is from professionals in the real world who meet head on fresh college grads totally focused on wanting more money but offer no real world value or experience.

 

Our country is entering a crisis that is getting worse. Our Air Force lacks 4,000 mechanics, 2000 pilots and many other positions. Our tradesmen in construction are on average nearing 50 years old with very few young people entering the trades.

 

Our country lacks people who can get things done, from flying jets, to driving a nail, to twisting wires to get the lights on.

 

I’ve spent over 40 years in building and I’ve persinally seen the degradation of our trades, our work ethic, as our society pushed for college educations.

 

There is a huge demand for Mercedes mechanics or Toyota mechanics that can earn over $100,000 per year.

 

There is huge value, demand and success awaiting those young men and women who may not want college educations and $50,000 in debt at 22. The trades are starving for highly intelligent motivated young people to take over where we 50 plus year olds are now retiring from.

 

Yes, I’m old school and a multimillionaire who never went to college. With the education of the power of compounding, old school hard work ethics, I’m here to say not all success is measured by a college degree. The world has fabulous opportunities in job careers that don’t cost $100,000 in debt to get.

 

But our public education that feeds the professors in college will refuse to teach what the Swiss have been highly successful with. Vocational trade education that can lead to higher education later in life.

 

I’m just old school.

Edited by Old School

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As I look at our economy and the sorry state of personal finances from the highly educated to the poor, I ask myself, does it have anything to do with cooking skills?

 

The answer is no. It has to do with a total lack of education and training how to make money with money. It has to do with a brain washed society that teaches college is the correct destination after high school before real life begins. College has created in our youth over $1.3 Trillion in personal debt and its only moving higher.

 

Most graduates leave with a diploma and an average debt of $45,000 and sometimes triple or even more.

 

Success is not merely measured by a college education.

 

My architect and engineer friends tell me all the time Colleges are turning out kids right out of college who want big money but can’t function in the real world. They must totally re learn what colleges fail to teach. This is from professionals in the real world who meet head on fresh college grads totally focused on wanting more money but offer no real world value or experience.

 

Our country is entering a crisis that is getting worse. Our Air Force lacks 4,000 mechanics, 2000 pilots and many other positions. Our tradesmen in construction are on average nearing 50 years old with very few young people entering the trades.

 

Our country lacks people who can get things done, from flying jets, to driving a nail, to twisting wires to get the lights on.

 

I’ve spent over 40 years in building and I’ve persinally seen the degradation of our trades, our work ethic, as our society pushed for college educations.

 

There is a huge demand for Mercedes mechanics or Toyota mechanics that can earn over $100,000 per year.

 

There is huge value, demand and success awaiting those young men and women who may not want college educations and $50,000 in debt at 22. The trades are starving for highly intelligent motivated young people to take over where we 50 plus year olds are now retiring from.

 

Yes, I’m old school and a multimillionaire who never went to college. With the education of the power of compounding, old school hard work ethics, I’m here to say not all success is measured by a college degree. The world has fabulous opportunities in job careers that don’t cost $100,000 in debt to get.

 

But our public education that feeds the professors in college will refuse to teach what the Swiss have been highly successful with. Vocational trade education that can lead to higher education later in life.

 

I’m just old school.

 

What precisely is your point???

 

What does going into trades have to do with financial literacy?

Edited by regentrude
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Regentrude,

 

I have no precise point. There are many points stemming from the lack of money management education of our youth.

 

I do know this as fact though, the current lack of education concerning money management skills and the current trend of $1.3 trillion in college debt will continue moving ever higher. College costs will continue moving higher as enrollment falls. Something will break eventually with this insane equation.

 

My main point reverts to the lack of money management education. So Regentrude you tell me how $1.3 Trillion in debt in our sector of higher education is good for individuals and inevitably our national economy? It’s worse than the CDO scam of the 2008 financial crisis that destroyed much wealth of the most educated people in our country.

 

Our college system is more worried about churning out young adults laden with life long debt vs real world solutions like money management skills.

 

The real truth is I’m afraid that I could teach an 18 year old money skills and a trade vs huge massive debt college offers.

I could teach a young man to become a tradesman who could live at home until 25 or so who invests in dollar cost averaging

vs. giving his hard earned money to a professor. I could teach him the power of compounding and how from 18 to 25 he would be debt free, fully invested, with over $192,000 or more by the age of 25. I could suggest living at home, learn a trade, invest almost 100% of his or hers income while living at home until 25. Suppose he or she could dollar cost average $20,000 or more for only seven years at an average yield of only 8%. That’s $192,000. Move forward in time with the formula and helping ones child and it becomes millions of dollars for retirement.

 

My young adult, free of college debt, working say as a Toyota mechanic using the power of compounding and living debt free under my roof would be wise money management, don’t you agree. I’m not saying my formula is better than anyone else’s.

 

I’m suggesting that a well trained mind is much better off than massive debt from a college education invested wisely can far out run the majority of college degreed people using the power of the Rule of 72.

 

So what is my point?

 

Using the Rule of 72 and zero debt vs massive college debt is a wise money management skill we could teach our children nation wide but won’t because it attacks the myth that a well trained mind must become a debt slave to the institution of Colleges and a supposed higher education. All I see is a nation whose young adults are drowning in $1.3 trillion in debt.

 

I offer old school solutions versus the need for advanced math that most will never ever need. I’m saying college is not for everyone, there are other solutions.

 

I’m saying open back up the old school of common sense. It has value and trades have value. Financial independence and wise money management far outweighs the slavery of debt as our nation continues to feed this myth that a college education

promises success and riches.

 

My point is there are many other solutions and roads to a well trained mind.

 

I’m living proof.

 

I’m self taught and in 2008 I made huge amounts of money not from a college education but because I educated myself with knowledge of the world around me. It was called money management.

 

My point is we are not teaching wise money management skills.

 

The evidence of this statement is irrefutable and surrounds us.

 

My point is why do we keep doing the same old things expecting a different outcome. That’s insanity.

 

My point is why are we not teaching more about what works and what does not work concerning educating our youth in wiser money management skills.

 

We are failing them in whole as a nation.

 

I will ask you and others again?

 

How many in society are financially ready for retirement and older age?

 

Not many at all. Why?

Edited by Old School
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BTW,

 

A 25 year old who invests and has $192,000 who lived at home without college who goes on to marry at say 26 but still contributes $12,000 annually for the next 40 years at an average yield of 8% will have as a married couple over $7.5 Million dollars. All because that young person lived at home and invested with the help of parents and built his or hers nest egg quickly while young.

 

We don’t teach the importance of time and how getting started young and fast is so vital to financial independence.

 

We just don’t teach old school ways to financial independence.

 

Our society is heavily debt laden with educated debt laden masses, not wealth building investors.

 

College is great for many. Higher education is a great path as well but without teaching the power of compounding early, debt can kill ones future.

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Your posts seem to be directed towards what the government should require in public school. I find that a bit of an interesting question on a homeschooling forum since I have no impact at all on the educational objectives in my particular state. As others have pointed out, some states do require or at least offer some financial education in the public schools.

 

In my homeschool, I have not found financial education to be rocket science. We have learned it over the years with my kid’s first business (selling quick breads) at age 8, to getting their own savings accounts, to getting their own checking accounts and credit cards, to opening cds, to making a budget and saving for short and long term goals.

 

They are fiscally responsible teens and young adults. I’m sure they will make mistakes just as we have and will learn from them, but they have a good grasp of the basics. My eldest is doing his own taxes, handles all his own money and pays for his own higher education with zero debt.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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While I don't dispute that some kids who start off at a traditional 4- year college would be better off going into in a vocational program, I don't think more "education" in the traditional sense will be the answer to personal debt or the country's debt crisis. Debt is more nuanced than "live at home, learn a trade, dollar cost average."

Money management isn't something that should be learned strictly by sitting in a classroom and learning terms or even going over case studies. You need to practice. You need to experience. You need to learn by doing, sometimes by failing, and then by trying again. Some may learn money management but never have the seed money to live comfortably or be able to save up enough for retirement due to some of the factors that others have pointed out. Others may have plenty of seed money, but not ever learn delayed gratification that others pointed out. 

 

How many in society are financially ready for retirement and older age?

Not many at all. Why?

How many in society are emotionally ready for all the challenges of having children?

Why?

 

Would a mandatory class on child development help? How about mandatory unpaid stints in child care centers?

 

IMO, some things you have to model and practice, but you never know how you are going to react after your kid has been crying for 36 hours straight until you've been there. Money management isn't as critical as learning how to raise kids, but I don't think a class in either will create a utopian society.

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We don’t teach the importance of time and how getting started young and fast is so vital to financial independence.

 

We just don’t teach old school ways to financial independence.

 

Our society is heavily debt laden with educated debt laden masses, not wealth building investors.

 

College is great for many. Higher education is a great path as well but without teaching the power of compounding early, debt can kill ones future.

 

Strange. I went to high school in the late 80s/early 90s and graduated from college in the mid 90s. I remember hearing over and over again how important it was to get started young with saving and investing. In my very first job, there was an emphasis on explaining how even just a little money invested in their retirement plan would yield great rewards later. (They went to great pains to point out the company partial-match, too, so every $2 you put in was matched by $1 of the company's money.) One woman I worked with refused to put any of her money into her retirement plan because she NEEDED it all to spend now (new furniture, a vacation, a new bike, dates, etc.). No amount of explaining, showing, or modeling would change her mind.

 

I think your idealism in this idea is a nice thought, but unrealistic.

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I completely agree that too many kids are not being taught financial literacy. I'm not sure what you are proposing, though. Are you trying to encourage the homeschoolers on this board to do so? Are you lamenting the lack of this in public schools?

 

My husband is an electrician, and believe me I know the situation in the trades. It is crazy (to me) that young people are not flooding into these jobs. They are not for everyone, either, of course. But I think many, many young people are not even considering them which is unfortunate.

 

I like your idea about kids living at home to allow them to get an early start on saving.

 

Overall, I'm pretty sure I agree with the vast majority of what you are saying. I'm all for increasing financial literacy in the U.S., but that won't make everyone a millionaire by age 25. For one thing, that is simply not a goal for some people. For another, teaching is only half the battle (or maybe less) as others have pointed out.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you, btw, for the fond memory you brought me: My family was eating out at our favorite pizza joint when my grandpa pulled out a pen and used a napkin to explain compounding interest to me. Good stuff! :)

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I agree with whomever said financial independence is more related to the ability to delay gratification and to the concept of contentment than it is to financial literacy.

 

Ditto

 

Our school teaches personal budgeting and the power of compounding interest (negative and positive) in economics - a required course everyone needs to graduate.  In a project they do, students have to figure out their income from a job (a real income, not a desired income!), pick a place to live, pay for a mode of transportation, buy clothes, food, and other necessities including insurance, etc, and figure out just how they are going to live.

 

They technically learn it all, but how much do they retain when they get a paycheck?  That's the question.

 

Most graduates leave with a diploma and an average debt of $45,000 and sometimes triple or even more.

 

...

 

I’m just old school.

 

So was my grandfather when he spieled out the same things in his old age (he passed away a couple of decades ago now).  The "old school" generation never thinks highly of what the young kids know.  Methinks they forgot how little they, themselves, knew at the same age TBH.

 

But I also think you need to check some of your facts - as do many who spout off like this.

 

Here's a look at unemployment and income per degree with overall stats:

 

https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

 

ep_chart_001.png

 

There will be exceptions, of course, so all students should head for the niche they show the most promise for.  That may or may not be college/trades.  Students do best when in their niches.  Students trying to fit into a niche that isn't them are the talk of "that horrible plumber/engineer" stories who often can't make a living.

 

Business Insider's take on average college debt:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/student-loan-debt-average-by-state-map-2017-11

 

Graduates from New Hampshire came out with the most debt on average — at $27,167. Graduates from Utah, meanwhile, had the least — at $7,545.

The report looks specifically at the average student debt "per graduate" — and not "per borrower." That means the number includes the amount of students who graduate debt-free, too.

One can google to get average debt per borrower.  No link I saw had it at 45K.

 

 

How many in society are financially ready for retirement and older age?

 

Not many at all. Why?

 

You might live in a different area than I do, but in the area I live in, the majority of those not ready for retirement and older age are those who took lower paying jobs and simply couldn't make ends meet easily.  Saving for retirement might have been a wish, but so was eating or health care.

 

Tons of jobs have been automated.  Those doing them have few other skills and no degree so have been pretty much sunk when it comes to other options.  Factories have slimmed down considerably.  In my grandfather's day it was possible to have no degree and work at a factory to get a nice retirement, including what he invested himself.  Life has changed since then - considerably.

 

I agree with teaching personal finance in school and consider the major project our students have to do a very worthy one, but there's also the need to look at the bigger picture rather than anecdotes of "well, my dad or grandpa or whoever in the past made this work, so it's my best path too."  Average college debt is about the same as a car debt.  For MANY, it's a good investment - ourselves included.  We paid off 5 figures of debt after graduation within 5 years and have been reaping the benefits ever since.  A trade would not be providing us the same income we have.  No regrets at all.  My engineering hubby would have been suitable for either, but engineering certainly has paid off better for us - AND - he uses that "math thing" pretty much everyday in his job.  ;)  Weird, huh?

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Our society has many issues but two main ones are the massive lack of skilled workers across a broad spectrum of our economy and our personal debt levels are now moving higher than levels we saw in the fall of 2007.

 

The point I was trying to make as a fellow home schooler that if massive personal debt was just a lack of common sense we would not have such a massive problem with it. I just wanted to say we must educate our children in the many ways of money management. Tony Robbins has many educational money management books on tape that can be used. He has comprised educational solutions from the worlds richest and smartest money managers like Ray Dalio, Paul Tudor and others like Warren Buffett. Our children face a jungle out there. From my experiences the vast majority of society are clueless, and sadly unprepared for financial success, because we don’t teach our children enough concerning money management.

 

Yes, I’m saying that even government whose job it is to bail out financial crisis should also help educate our children in how to manage money better, even to the point of teaching the power of compounding and many many other techniques. Why? Because as a nation we are failing and creating more debt in all sectors of our society.

 

I’m also advocating as an alternative to college that our trades and jobs with high paying salaries, bonuses and bright futures are out there for those who do not want college. College is great but not every child will seek their passion there, not even as a stepping stone.

 

We need to become stronger I think in the basics of reading, writing and real world math we as adults use every day in life. How many articles on the Internet do we read daily that college educated writers fail to edit? Over the past five years it’s gotten terrible.

 

Are there not simple old school solutions that have been cast away for far to long that work, that maybe we should look at in such a complicated world?

 

One more morsel for thought.

 

It’s a totally different subject concerning education.

 

Without larger, stronger families our nations heritage and entire future will incur major economic problems whose dimensions are so far blind to the present. Without babies, without grounded growing healthy financially wise young adults getting started off in life on the right foot, our country will not have the manpower to continue its growth.

 

By far our greatest national security concern is not just the lack of money management on every level of society, it’s the demise of faith, the demise of strong families and the continued trend of a dwindling birth rate. Without babies our nation crumbles.

 

Unless of course we have massive increases in immigration which will change America’s current cultural norms.

 

That’s a whole book entirely onto itself for well trained minds.

 

We have a dark future without babies being born. In my opinion we need another massive baby boom but society will find 1000 different excuses why it can’t and won’t happen, which proves my point.

 

We won’t have well trained minds unless we educate our youth as to the purpose of growing healthy families vs playing virtual reality games until we die.

 

Things to ponder.

Edited by Old School

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Old School, I feel like you are not interested in having a conversation but are very interested in mansplaining the issue.

 

I don't see a future in discourse on this topic at this time.

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Our society has many issues but two main ones are the massive lack of skilled workers across a broad spectrum of our economy and our personal debt levels are now moving higher than levels we saw in the fall of 2007.

 

The point I was trying to make as a fellow home schooler that if massive personal debt was just a lack of common sense we would not have such a massive problem with it. I just wanted to say we must educate our children as parents in the many ways of money management. Tony Robbins has many deeply educational money management books on tape that can be used. He has comprised educational solutions from the worlds richest and smartest money managers like Ray Dalio, Paul Tudor and others like Warren Buffett. As parents I’m just suggesting that our children face a jungle out there. By all evidence I’m saying the vast majority of society are clueless and sadly unprepared for financial success because we don’t teach our children enough concerning money management.

 

Yes, I’m saying that even government whose job it is to bail out financial crisis should also help educate our children in how to manage money better, even to the point of teaching the power of compounding and many many other techniques. Why? Because as a nation we are failing and creating more debt in all sectors of our society.

 

I’m also advocating as an alternative to college that our trades and jobs with high paying salaries, bonuses and bright futures are out there for those who do not want college. College is great but not every child will seek their passion there, not even as a stepping stone.

 

We need to become stronger I think in the basics of reading, writing and real world math we as adults use every day in life.

How many articles on the Internet do we read daily that college educated writers fail to edit. Over the past five years it’s gotten terrible.

 

Are there not simple old school solutions that have been cast away for far to long that work that maybe we should look at in such a complicated world?

 

One more morcel for thought.

 

It’s a totally different subject concerning education.

 

Without larger, stronger families our nations heritage and entire future will incur major economic problems whose dimensions are so far blind to the present. Without babies, without grounded growing healthy financially wise young adults getting started off in life on the right foot, our country will not have the manpower to continue its growth.

 

By far our greatest national security concern is not just the lack of money management on every level of society, it’s the demise of faith, the demise of strong families and the continued trend of a twindling birth rate. Without babies our nation crumbles.

 

Unless of course we have massive increases in immigration which will change America’s current cultural norms.

 

That’s a whole book entirely onto itself for well trained minds.

 

We have a dark future without babies being born. In my opinion we need another massive baby boom but society will find 1000 different excuses why it can’t and won’t happen, which proves my point.

 

We won’t have well trained minds unless we educate our youth as to the purpose of growing healthy families vs playing virtual reality games until we die.

 

Things to ponder.

 

You should take time to read a few threads on here.  I think you'll find all of your points discussed at one point or another.  Many of us disagree with your conclusions, but there are some who agree with it.  ;)

 

I can't help but wonder why you suddenly felt the need to educate us all with your vast knowledge TBH.

 

If you want to change American spending habits, from what I see, you need to figure out a way to stop advertising and the whole materialistic culture.  Kids learn about interest - even in math class(!) and what it can do on purchases and for investments.  What's tough for adults and kids to overcome is that belief that they "need it now" whether that's an updated kitchen, new stylish clothes, or that pizza.

 

BUT, again, from what I see IRL, the biggest problem comes from those who get too little education and are stuck in poorly paying jobs so their paycheck doesn't really cover all the basics + savings.  A trade education is fine for those students who can do them (not all can), but not all trades pay off handsomely either.

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By far our greatest national security concern is not just the lack of money management on every level of society, it’s the demise of faith, the demise of strong families and the continued trend of a twindling birth rate. Without babies our nation crumbles.

 

You might want to take your proselytizing elsewhere because this is not an issue related to homeschooling high school.

Your pot stirring is  a very interesting thread for a first time poster.

 

Btw, the word you mean is "dwindling". (ETA: I normally don't mention spelling mistakes, but this poster just griped about poorly edited online writings by college educated people)

Edited by regentrude
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There is nothing unrealistic about a young person living at home from 18 to 25 investing only $20,000 per year at 8%, having at 26 approx $192,000 and from then on every year for 40 years a mere $12,000 per year is saved at 8% and by age 65 to 66 having over $7.5 Million dollars.

The realistic part of this simplistic road to educating others in its simplicity is that the majority will say and program themselves and others that it’s unreal, not achievable because most people thrive on negativity and saying everything is impossible.

I simply point to the vast majority of the poor who then blame government and everyone else for their lack of trying.

A person in this thread that this lofty goal is just unrealistic.

 

That is correct because the fact is most humans set themselves up for failure before they ever soar.

 

Dreamers like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and so many other great achievers were told I’m 100% positive that their dreams were impossible.

 

I was told by co workers and friends my goals were unrealistic and I would never reach my dreams.

 

We teach that a lot in our society.

 

Simply saving and investing and educating our kids there are other very successful roads they can take is not unrealistic but very simply achievable.

 

As far as those here who try to point out misspelled words, I have no time for petty attacks.

 

I will never use words attacking others here like you spout off this or that.

 

I will stand firm though that a very simple subject like money management can be turned upside down, inside out and created into something so negative by so many.

 

Why?

 

What’s wrong with educating our youth how to invest. I never used the word trade, as someone here insinuated. I said invest long term for 40 years using the power of compounding but then it gets twisted into trading and something I’m totally not discussing.

 

I can see now just by the replies why America can’t save and invest using the power of compounding.

 

The lack of educating our youth as to how possible and easy it is to use time, money earned, and the power of compounding to use our money to build wealth is quite apparent on a national level.

 

Do we as a family practice what we preach?

 

Yes. Every dollar our two sons earn we invest long in the markets for decades of returns to come.

 

We are slow moving turtles just using the time proven methods that work. We don’t try to reinvent what works.

 

All I wanted to point is more money management could lead to financial success instead of being broke at 65.

 

I entered a home about three weeks ago in my line of work. I asked the bank representative what had happened here. It was a $3.5 Million home.

 

The man who lived there with his family was living way beyond his means, got sick and died of cancer young. He had no emergency funds, no cash, but was debt laden. When he fell, it destroyed his families standard of life leaving them devistated the bank rep told me.

 

So again, my only point is very simple.

 

Money management education at a very early age is critical and should really be pressed and taught.

Yes, only living and doing it and falling and failing will truly teach, but giving our kids an edge could possibly stop the pain of failure.

 

BTW... I filed bankruptcy on my way up the ladder. It taught me what not to do. Lessons learned.

 

But our kids can do better with our guidance and excuses are for losers.

 

Education is for those seeking a well trained mind.

 

Just humbly suggesting, NOT PREACHING, for anyone interested, just show your kids the money chimp calculator for a realistic picture of how time and I interest yield works over time, its really as simple as starting there, unless you feel bashing me is more productive for their long term success.

 

God Bless Always

Edited by Old School

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Just humbly suggesting NOT PREACHING for anyone interested, just show your kids the money chimp calculator for a realistic picture of how time and I interest yield works over time, its really as simple as starting there, unless you feel bashing me is more productive for their long term success.

 

I'm glad you suggested it because none of us have ever thought of it before!   :lol:

 

I guess it's a figment of my imagination that we teach it (to ALL kids) in our school as I mentioned before and as others have mentioned.

 

FWIW, getting an 8% return on investments can happen, but generally not in safe investments.  I'm also glad you know that recently graduated folks can have 20K per year to invest.  Assuming they get a job working 40 hours per week at $12/hour (a pretty common rate around here for unskilled labor) they earn roughly 25K per year before any taxes are pulled out.  Living at home can definitely save them money, but do mom and dad really pay for all of their expenses?

 

Going back to the BLS stats I posted earlier about average wages (did you even see that?), the average high school diploma worker older than 25 earns almost $700/week.  This comes out to essentially $36K/year before taxes.  Are they still living with mom and dad or are they then supposed to be able to live on 16K per year (before taxes) to save that 20K in a risky investment?

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There is a huge difference between sharing "Hey, I found this neat calculator that has really helped me to teach my kids about money" and telling us that you know the right way to financial security not only for your family but for all of society.  The first, actually invites dialogue as others can share how they teach their kids about money (because we aren't so unenlightened that we've never thought of doing that) and the other shuts down dialogue and is patronizing. 

 

And yes, I would like to know a safe investment nowadays that actually brings in 8% interest.  I do realize that young people can afford some more risky investments but they do need to understand the risks. 

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Okay, so here’s what I’ve learned here today in my thread.

 

Don’t bring up money management as part of education to people who talk like liberal communists that feel society is to blame for our own ignorance when it comes to capitalizing in a free enterprise materialistic society. I guess it’s taboo.

 

I point a simple time proven methodology called the power of compounding, and the claws of some very nasty spirits come out to prove just how nasty people can be. I never said my way is better than anyone else’s. I just suggested proper asset allocation and long term dollar cost averaging using the Rule of 72 might be a great thing to teach our kids, but again I was called a preacher, that this type of education is not appropriate material etc.

 

I would gander to say that the vast majority who did not reply and those who had kind words were actually the majority. I appreciate your feed back.

 

To the negative and nasty replies well, it doesn’t surprise me that even in an intellectual forum there can be found vitriol and rudeness.

 

May I point out it’s nothing different than we see now before us nationally, constant vitriol, constant hateful retorts launched from both sides against a middle ground that is ever widening.

 

I did come here for conversation and with a simple post found once again the root of negativity that seems daily to grow in our nation.

 

Who would have thought suggesting the power of compounding to an intellectual forum like this could be thrown back in my face twisted a hundred different ways. Incredible derision and division concerning not theory but a proven

postulate - that time, education, investing ones hard earned money, investing a life working in a trade might be an alternative

to high dollar high stress college.

 

I was just suggesting that we truly need tradesmen and women to build our nation. We can’t all sit in front of a computer all day. We need jet fighters, we need so many people to fill great paying jobs that require no college. This was my was point.

 

I never said don’t stress college. I simply asked how many teach their kids there is a vast world of jobs and opportunities outside of college?

 

I know a young man who 25 years ago stepped out of the hood, high crime, drugs etc.. and became an electrician.

 

Today this same great success story works in Afghanistan as an electrical Superintendent in charge of projects earning tax free money of over $250,000 per year all expenses paid. He drives a Lamborghini, his weakness but hey, the kid from the hood loves fast cars and paid cash.

 

The rest of his money is invested wisely not because he lucked out, but because a guy like me taught him over 25 years ago that just because society looks down on us construction workers without college degrees, don’t let it stop you from your dreams and your greatness and your financial success. He’s another millionaire electrician where hard work and great work ethic paid off in trumps.

 

So who am I to preach here?

 

I’ve helped and taught thousands in my career both men and women much much more than electrical work.

I taught them to never let the negativity of others stop you from your dreams, no matter how nasty others can be and will be.

I taught them the power of compounding and investing using time. I taught them how to take their tools before them not only to build massive projects like but to take everything they had to make their dreams come true.

 

Yes, I’m a preacher so to speak, and faith has played a major role in my life. The power of faith in God, in self, in helping others always even through the dark valleys of others negative vitriol I learned long ago you just can’t that ever slow you down because the world is full of others who say it’s impossible, it’s not going to work, it’s not relevant, you’re an idiot, you’re a preacher, and on and on.

 

Well, I’ve got my castle, I’ve got my Queen, I’ve got my faith, and the more I learn the more I realize I know nothing.

 

Just a humble soul this morning trying to just point a few things that truly work.

 

Maybe hard work and using time to grow wealth are just to old school.

 

Maybe trying to help others with 54 years of living the dream and seeing my dreams come true is just to old fashioned.

Maybe striving always to help others is just not in Vogue anymore.

 

But maybe not.

 

God Bless Always

Edited by Old School

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Honest dialogue is not hateful vitriol. 

 

(Signed the pastor's wife who is not all the extremes that you seem to think people have to be if they are not bowing down at your feet in awe.)

 

Honestly, one of the reasons you haven't gotten huge raves is because your ideas aren't new, aren't unheard of even in secular society, and yet aren't the sum total of what it means to give our kids a good financial education.  And because you haven't learned to talk TO people instead of talking AT them. 

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If everybody saved all their money except for rice and beans, then companies would have to lay off a lot of workers, since consumption going way down would mean they'd sell fewer things, so then they'd have to produce fewer things, which would mean fewer jobs. In other words, we can't ALL decide to save $20k/year all of a sudden and expect ALL of us to come out ahead. Yes, people overspend and have too much debt and probably should save more, but it's not as simple as "if everybody on the planet would save a ton, we'd all be rich". 

 

But thanks for the mansplaining stuff that probably the vast, vast majority of the people on this forum were already aware of (how many of the threads on here have you read before posting)?

 

P.S. A lot of people on this forum are quite conservative. 

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Okay, so here’s what I’ve learned here today in my thread.

 

Don’t bring up money management as part of education to people who talk like liberal communists that feel society is to blame for our own ignorance when it comes to capitalizing in a free enterprise materialistic society. I guess it’s taboo.

 

I point a simple time proven methodology called the power of compounding, and the claws of some very nasty spirits come out to prove just how nasty people can be. I never said my way is better than anyone else’s. I just suggested proper asset allocation and long term dollar cost averaging using the Rule of 72 might be a great thing to teach our kids, but again I was called a preacher, that this type of education is not appropriate material etc.

 

I would gander to say that the vast majority who did not reply and those who had kind words were actually the majority. I appreciate your feed back.

 

To the negative and nasty replies well, it doesn’t surprise me that even in an intellectual forum there can be found vitriol and rudeness.

 

May I point out it’s nothing different than we see now before us nationally, constant vitriol, constant hateful retorts launched from both sides against a middle ground that is ever widening.

 

I did come here for conversation and with a simple post found once again the root of negativity that seems daily to grow in our nation.

 

Who would have thought suggesting the power of compounding to an intellectual forum like this could be thrown back in my face twisted a hundred different ways. Incredible derision and division concerning not theory but a proven

postulate - that time, education, investing ones hard earned money, investing a life working in a trade might be an alternative

to high dollar high stress college.

 

I was just suggesting that we truly need tradesmen and women to build our nation. We can’t all sit in front of a computer all day. We need jet fighters, we need so many people to fill great paying jobs that require no college. This was my was point.

 

I never said don’t stress college. I simply asked how many teach their kids there is a vast world of jobs and opportunities outside of college?

 

I know a young man who 25 years ago stepped out of the hood, high crime, drugs etc.. and became an electrician.

 

Today this same great success story works in Afghanistan as an electrical Superintendent in charge of projects earning tax free money of over $250,000 per year all expenses paid. He drives a Lamborghini, his weakness but hey, the kid from the hood loves fast cars and paid cash.

 

The rest of his money is invested wisely not because he lucked out, but because a guy like me taught him over 25 years ago that just because society looks down on us construction workers without college degrees, don’t let it stop you from your dreams and your greatness and your financial success. He’s another millionaire electrician where hard work and great work ethic paid off in trumps.

 

So who am I to preach here?

 

I’ve helped and taught thousands in my career both men and women much much more than electrical work.

I taught them to never let the negativity of others stop you from your dreams, no matter how nasty others can be and will be.

I taught them the power of compounding and investing using time. I taught them how to take their tools before them not only to build massive projects like but to take everything they had to make their dreams come true.

 

Yes, I’m a preacher so to speak, and faith has played a major role in my life. The power of faith in God, in self, in helping others always even through the dark valleys of others negative vitriol I learned long ago you just can’t that ever slow you down because the world is full of others who say it’s impossible, it’s not going to work, it’s not relevant, you’re an idiot, you’re a preacher, and on and on.

 

Well, I’ve got my castle, I’ve got my Queen, I’ve got my faith, and the more I learn the more I realize I know nothing.

 

Just a humble soul this morning trying to just point a few things that truly work.

 

Maybe hard work and using time to grow wealth are just to old school.

 

Maybe trying to help others with 54 years of living the dream and seeing my dreams come true is just to old fashioned.

Maybe striving always to help others is just not in Vogue anymore.

 

But maybe not.

 

God Bless Always

 

Hmm, a super long post that I just read through and not a single educated sentence in it responding to my "these are the figures and the facts, how do you make it work" question.

 

Why is this not surprising me?

 

I'm also guessing you didn't know, but jet fighter pilots?  They have to have a college degree.  ;)

 

I haven't seen anyone dispute the power of compounding interest...

 

I haven't seen anyone dispute that we need tradesmen (and women).  Around here it takes a relative in the field to get into the electrical union though - at least - according to my neighbor who is in it and was able to get his sons in it.  The field is pretty saturated, but it is still a good field if you can get in.

 

Out of curiosity, how old are your homeschooled kids?  You can see what mine have done/are doing in my signature.  

Edited by creekland
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Ditto

 

Our school teaches personal budgeting and the power of compounding interest (negative and positive) in economics - a required course everyone needs to graduate. In a project they do, students have to figure out their income from a job (a real income, not a desired income!), pick a place to live, pay for a mode of transportation, buy clothes, food, and other necessities including insurance, etc, and figure out just how they are going to live.

 

They technically learn it all, but how much do they retain when they get a paycheck? That's the question.

 

 

So was my grandfather when he spieled out the same things in his old age (he passed away a couple of decades ago now). The "old school" generation never thinks highly of what the young kids know. Methinks they forgot how little they, themselves, knew at the same age TBH.

 

But I also think you need to check some of your facts - as do many who spout off like this.

 

Here's a look at unemployment and income per degree with overall stats:

 

https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm

 

ep_chart_001.png

 

There will be exceptions, of course, so all students should head for the niche they show the most promise for. That may or may not be college/trades. Students do best when in their niches. Students trying to fit into a niche that isn't them are the talk of "that horrible plumber/engineer" stories who often can't make a living.

 

Business Insider's take on average college debt:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/student-loan-debt-average-by-state-map-2017-11

Graduates from New Hampshire came out with the most debt on average — at $27,167. Graduates from Utah, meanwhile, had the least — at $7,545.

The report looks specifically at the average student debt "per graduate" — and not "per borrower." That means the number includes the amount of students who graduate debt-free, too.

One can google to get average debt per borrower. No link I saw had it at 45K.

 

 

 

You might live in a different area than I do, but in the area I live in, the majority of those not ready for retirement and older age are those who took lower paying jobs and simply couldn't make ends meet easily. Saving for retirement might have been a wish, but so was eating or health care.

 

Tons of jobs have been automated. Those doing them have few other skills and no degree so have been pretty much sunk when it comes to other options. Factories have slimmed down considerably. In my grandfather's day it was possible to have no degree and work at a factory to get a nice retirement, including what he invested himself. Life has changed since then - considerably.

 

I agree with teaching personal finance in school and consider the major project our students have to do a very worthy one, but there's also the need to look at the bigger picture rather than anecdotes of "well, my dad or grandpa or whoever in the past made this work, so it's my best path too." Average college debt is about the same as a car debt. For MANY, it's a good investment - ourselves included. We paid off 5 figures of debt after graduation within 5 years and have been reaping the benefits ever since. A trade would not be providing us the same income we have. No regrets at all. My engineering hubby would have been suitable for either, but engineering certainly has paid off better for us - AND - he uses that "math thing" pretty much everyday in his job. ;) Weird, huh?

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Creekland,

 

Thank you for sharing. On average a college education in most sectors pay more, however there are trades that are very lucrative, in demand, and require less time and money than college. Higher education is important to some, but not all, or even most. There is a huge cost to many years of college, including soaring debt and lost years of earning and saving. I was just trying to point out that how one manages money over time is very important, regardless of college.

 

With technological advances coming that will extend our lives, this is even more important. In the next twenty to thirty years, the average life expectancy may move up much higher than we expect, and with longer lives we will need to prepare ourselves to the related financial consequences,

 

I don’t think most will be able to fully retire at 65 if average life expectancy moves up to say, 90, or 100 or more, with the coming medical advancements, making investing properly from a young age even more important.

 

Thank you again for sharing and replying.

Edited by Old School
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There is no sales pitch. I’m just an American dad.

I thought I might bring up money management here as an area that our youth and others could use more education in.

I brought the importance of saving and investing as young as possible because time is an important factor.

I’m not selling anything other than established proven financial investing doctrine as it relates to dollar cost averaging, using the power of compounding to grow our wealth and getting started as soon as we can in life.

I was also trying to point out that if a child doesn’t want to go to college there are of course as many of us know other alternatives but regardless my main point to this thread was just to say I don’t think the vast majority gets the whole idea of the power of compounding interest as it relates to investing as early as possible in life. If the vast majority practiced wise investing

the vast majority would not be in debt.

 

A poster here said it’s unrealistic to think the majority will ever change. I agree.

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my main point to this thread was just to say I don’t think the vast majority gets the whole idea of the power of compounding interest as it relates to investing as early as possible in life.

I think this is the main reason your thread went awry. You seem to be vastly under estimating the majority of posters here. I dare say most people here do understand compounding of interest and teach it to their kids, so it came across as somewhat insulting to have a new poster come along trying to lecture us all about the importance of it. That mansplaining thing. It’s not the idea of teaching compounding of interest that anyone was objecting to, as far as I can see.

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I taught it to my kids.

Our public high school requires it.

Our Community College teaches it in their first year student seminar (a required class).

 

I learned about the value of saving and compounding interest from both family and school--but never in my life have made enough to put that kind of money away (we do save all we can and live frugally).

 

At ages 18-26, the jobs we had didn't have an option for living at home (they weren't anywhere near our homes). Life doesn't always work out the way one might think, hope, or want. But the stats on paper of how to be a millionaire by X age always look great. 

 

I agree that the problem is not merely one of financial literacy (though I agree that needs to be taught). You can't tell me that state and national bureaucrats don't have financial literacy, and yet our country is driven further and further into debt! The problem for both individuals and governments is learning to live within our means and use what we have responsibly--and that's a lot more involved than simply learning how to save and invest. 

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Thank you, btw, for the fond memory you brought me: My family was eating out at our favorite pizza joint when my grandpa pulled out a pen and used a napkin to explain compounding interest to me. Good stuff! :)

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MerryatHope,

 

The government has no power large enough I am afraid other than its utter and total collapse upon its self to live within its means.

 

There is no physical nor political constraints large enough to stop the beast from unbridled spending. With its back against the wall on March 9, 2009 the FED had two options. Our markets could totally cease up causing a total global financial dead stop and a modern Stone Age or it had to create a back stop from thin air whereby printing money with nothing but faith to ignite the present almost nine year bull market.

 

The FED prostponed a total catastrophe in March 2009, jump started the global economic engine and created $13 plus Trillion in debt and over $109Trillion in unfunded liabilities.

 

So I totally agree with you, our government must live within its means but I’m afraid the only game in town is growth no matter the level of debt created to get us there, until it simply doesn’t.

 

The great FED unwind hasn’t even really begun yet. But that’s a whole story not meant for this forum.

 

I guess we shall see.

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Kinsa,

 

I’ve been in the construction industry all my life beginning as a young boy. My grandparents and parents had their own businesses and I worked alongside them starting at age 4.

 

Long before we were too scared as a society of lawyers and litigation, I worked earning money in the summers in chemical plants, and I was snuck into to many other projects throughout our state. I worked and had my own checking account and savings at ten years old.

I’m semi retired now.

Edited by Old School

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Just an aside....Compound interest is an Algebra 2 topic in the logarithms and exponential functions unit.

Great. A blue collar self made guy like me who hated Algebra because it wasted my time, I use an app created by someone really good at Algebra 2 while I was busy getting the power run to his lights and computers and making millions in the stock market because I’m self taught there too.

 

The Monkey Chimp App was probably created by a person really great at Algebra for dummies like me.

 

God Bless them.

It takes a village full of us helping each other to build a better village. Some like dirt, some like Algebra 2. I still like dirt and the smell of building massive projects as the sun rises on a new day. I would die in a cubicle. No sun, no wind, no snow, no fun.

 

 

 

Peace

Edited by Old School

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I think this is the main reason your thread went awry. You seem to be vastly under estimating the majority of posters here. I dare say most people here do understand compounding of interest and teach it to their kids, so it came across as somewhat insulting to have a new poster come along trying to lecture us all about the importance of it. That mansplaining thing. It’s not the idea of teaching compounding of interest that anyone was objecting to, as far as I can see.

I never attacked the people here, nor said they weren’t teaching their kids. However I do find here people who make us things concerning my posts. I never attacked or berated anyone here. It’s been the opposite. I wasn’t preaching, I suggested our society needs more education concerning money management and I pointed out the dire fact of a country full of all kinds of people who find themselves in huge debt while they sip their $6 Starbucks and Tweeting away on their $1,000 iPhone while Christmas shopping charging more on their credit cards making Visa and Macy’s richer while striving to pay off their college loans and 84 month car loans on top of their 30 year house note making yet another bank richer.

 

We have vast tools in our country we can use to get ahead, like supportive families who are now helping each other by living at home longer to cut down on the outrageous cost of living.

We have many investing vehicles we can use to get ahead with our earnings. We live in a great country but the vast majority are totally uneducated in money management and the power of investing properly.

 

What harm I thought would there be in suggesting we strive to teach our young children much more about this topic so their generation might be able to govern their own lives better or govern a city, state or our federal government in the future so they don’t repeat the mistakes of this generation when it comes to total failure of society in general to manage their finances better for retirement and or older age.

 

What harm would it be to discuss this very important topic.

 

Higher learning in finances, investing and a well rounded understanding of how money can grow in time if invested properly is key not only in making money with money but how to keep it once we have great wealth. How many great success stories are there where an undereducated person in money lost everything. That college degree and higher education can not stop a failed money management plan where one has no plan, nor education.

 

All of the degrees and education in the world won’t save ones standard of living and wealth if one doesn’t lean how the game of money is played in the jungle of life.

 

I say train and educate our kids for the jungle where everyone and all businesses are out to take ones money.

 

I bet most people here have no clue as to the hundreds of thousands of dollars most mutual funds in the $7 Trillion mutual fund market soaks its participants in high hidden fees. Some are as high as 3.93% a year, which over twenty to thirty years can rob vast fortunes from the uneducated populous. It’s highway robbery that 99% of our clueless public that participates in company 401K plans are never educated in. They have no clue the DOL can be called in to audit a companies 401K mutual fund plan and if you own a business and are unaware of how your employees are being fleeced in high fees, guess what, you are liable and be fined by the federal government now.

 

Education. So why are 100% of people who participate in the great American scam of mutual funds clueless about the fees that are robbing them blind? Because the administrators like Fidelity don’t want the public educated. They make money regardless of the markets performance because they rob the masses in high fees because the masses are not educated in money management tactics.

 

So you all tell me how the game of money management is played in the jungle of life.

 

They don’t teach this level of reality in high school nor in home school because entire industries count on the ignorance of the masses in the jungle to rob.

 

Only now are most people waking up and moving their IRAs into low cost index funds and converting to ROTH accounts because taxes in the future will be higher not lower.

 

I could go on and on about educating the masses in proper money management skills.

I will say it again, our country lacks education greatly in this realm.

 

The evidence is clear. The vast majority have zero savings, tons of debt and not enough money to invest.

 

Why?

 

There is no excuse for a country so rich with higher education. None.

 

We can do much better as a nation. I don’t accept we can’t change the uneducated in this matter.

 

I’m not preaching to the intellect here but rather for a nation struggling with the lack of money management skills from a personal level to a federal government that is over run with stupid insane out of control spending.

 

We can do much better.

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They don’t teach this level of reality in high school nor in home school because entire industries count on the ignorance of the masses in the jungle to rob.

 

I could go on and on about educating the masses in proper money management skills.

 

I’m not preaching to the intellect here but rather for a nation struggling with the lack of money management skills from a personal level to a federal government that is over run with stupid insane out of control spending.

 

 

There is no "they" teaching or not teaching things in home school. What's taught in home school depends on what the parents decide to teach. IIRC we have at least one finance professor on this board - she's probably way more qualified to teach about this topic than you or I, and for all I know she might teach a kick-ass personal finance course for her kid(s? - I don't remember how many she has). 

 

What people are saying is that we don't need you to lecture to us (I see you're claiming that you're not doing that, but it sure seemed like it), nor to lecture us about what "the masses" are or are not learning. We're not in charge of that. Maybe try writing letters to your congresspeople and your school board and all that instead. 

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I haven't seen anyone dispute that we need tradesmen (and women).  Around here it takes a relative in the field to get into the electrical union though - at least - according to my neighbor who is in it and was able to get his sons in it.  The field is pretty saturated, but it is still a good field if you can get in.

 

 

Around here (MN) there is a huge need for electricians. My dh isn't union, but the local union rep visits him about every 9mos to try to get him to join. DH makes over twice the median wage for our area, but still there is a huge shortage. My brother is a carpenter, and he could tell the same type of story.

 

Just to add info relevant to another part of the country. :)

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Creekland,

 

Thank you for sharing. On average a college education in most sectors pay more, however there are trades that are very lucrative, in demand, and require less time and money than college. Higher education is important to some, but not all, or even most. There is a huge cost to many years of college, including soaring debt and lost years of earning and saving. I was just trying to point out that how one manages money over time is very important, regardless of college.

 

With technological advances coming that will extend our lives, this is even more important. In the next twenty to thirty years, the average life expectancy may move up much higher than we expect, and with longer lives we will need to prepare ourselves to the related financial consequences,

 

I don’t think most will be able to fully retire at 65 if average life expectancy moves up to say, 90, or 100 or more, with the coming medical advancements, making investing properly from a young age even more important.

 

Thank you again for sharing and replying.

 

With a post like this, I bet you have pretty much 100% agreement on this board.  There are many successful paths out there (many of which are discussed on our high school board).  It all depends upon the student and their situation.

 

And yes, retirement - for many - looms.

 

Kinsa,

 

I’ve been in the construction industry all my life beginning as a young boy. My grandparents and parents had their own businesses and I worked alongside them starting at age 4.

 

Long before we were too scared as a society of lawyers and litigation, I worked earning money in the summers in chemical plants, and I was snuck into to many other projects throughout our state. I worked and had my own checking account and savings at ten years old.

I’m semi retired now.

 

We still have kids working in the construction industry with parents and relatives.  That hasn't changed.  Some of them continue on in the family business and some don't. It has no bearing on how they handle money though.  I've seen kids inherit a successful business and have it go bankrupt due to their decisions. (I work in our local high school.  I see first hand what many kids do.)

 

For myself, I had my first savings account at age 8 - helping my dad with his beekeeping and earning $2/hour for the effort.

 

It takes a village full of us helping each other to build a better village. Some like dirt, some like Algebra 2. I still like dirt and the smell of building massive projects as the sun rises on a new day. I would die in a cubicle. No sun, no wind, no snow, no fun.

 

This is true too.  Several niches.  Several students.  Find the proper one for each and our world works better.  Try to toss all students into a certain path and it doesn't turn out as good IME.

 

My professional engineering spouse gets to go out and play in the dirt.  He doesn't work in a cubicle.  He can choose what he wants to do most days and even can work from out of country when we're traveling.  There are quite a few benefits he has with his job - all due to getting his college degree and building up his business since.  He's super good at his job.  It definitely was the right niche for him.

 

All that said... I handle our finances.  He's a great engineer... but we agreed I'd be better at our finances since about our second month of marriage.  What comes easy to some doesn't necessarily come easy to others.

 

I never attacked the people here, nor said they weren’t teaching their kids. However I do find here people who make us things concerning my posts. I never attacked or berated anyone here. It’s been the opposite. I wasn’t preaching, I suggested our society needs more education concerning money management and I pointed out the dire fact of a country full of all kinds of people who find themselves in huge debt while they sip their $6 Starbucks and Tweeting away on their $1,000 iPhone while Christmas shopping charging more on their credit cards making Visa and Macy’s richer while striving to pay off their college loans and 84 month car loans on top of their 30 year house note making yet another bank richer.

 

We have vast tools in our country we can use to get ahead, like supportive families who are now helping each other by living at home longer to cut down on the outrageous cost of living.

We have many investing vehicles we can use to get ahead with our earnings. We live in a great country but the vast majority are totally uneducated in money management and the power of investing properly.

 

What harm I thought would there be in suggesting we strive to teach our young children much more about this topic so their generation might be able to govern their own lives better or govern a city, state or our federal government in the future so they don’t repeat the mistakes of this generation when it comes to total failure of society in general to manage their finances better for retirement and or older age.

 

What harm would it be to discuss this very important topic.

 

Higher learning in finances, investing and a well rounded understanding of how money can grow in time if invested properly is key not only in making money with money but how to keep it once we have great wealth. How many great success stories are there where an undereducated person in money lost everything. That college degree and higher education can not stop a failed money management plan where one has no plan, nor education.

 

All of the degrees and education in the world won’t save ones standard of living and wealth if one doesn’t lean how the game of money is played in the jungle of life.

 

I say train and educate our kids for the jungle where everyone and all businesses are out to take ones money.

 

I bet most people here have no clue as to the hundreds of thousands of dollars most mutual funds in the $7 Trillion mutual fund market soaks its participants in high hidden fees. Some are as high as 3.93% a year, which over twenty to thirty years can rob vast fortunes from the uneducated populous. It’s highway robbery that 99% of our clueless public that participates in company 401K plans are never educated in. They have no clue the DOL can be called in to audit a companies 401K mutual fund plan and if you own a business and are unaware of how your employees are being fleeced in high fees, guess what, you are liable and be fined by the federal government now.

 

Education. So why are 100% of people who participate in the great American scam of mutual funds clueless about the fees that are robbing them blind? Because the administrators like Fidelity don’t want the public educated. They make money regardless of the markets performance because they rob the masses in high fees because the masses are not educated in money management tactics.

 

So you all tell me how the game of money management is played in the jungle of life.

 

They don’t teach this level of reality in high school nor in home school because entire industries count on the ignorance of the masses in the jungle to rob.

 

Only now are most people waking up and moving their IRAs into low cost index funds and converting to ROTH accounts because taxes in the future will be higher not lower.

 

I could go on and on about educating the masses in proper money management skills.

I will say it again, our country lacks education greatly in this realm.

 

The evidence is clear. The vast majority have zero savings, tons of debt and not enough money to invest.

 

Why?

 

There is no excuse for a country so rich with higher education. None.

 

We can do much better as a nation. I don’t accept we can’t change the uneducated in this matter.

 

I’m not preaching to the intellect here but rather for a nation struggling with the lack of money management skills from a personal level to a federal government that is over run with stupid insane out of control spending.

 

We can do much better.

 

You need to come work in our public school and see the wide range of students out there.  You need to see that a fair number of them do not have parents they can count on living with.  You need to see those who have parents, but are still helping to pay the bills themselves - while in high school.  Then perhaps you can meet those who have medical issues with crappy insurance.

 

I'm sure there are some who pay $6 for Starbucks and talk on their $1000 phones while going deep into debt.  I have not found that to be a very big cause of poverty IME.  Instead, I see low wages, higher rents and general costs, "life" happening (medical, mental issues, or otherwise) as being the biggest causes of financial problems.

 

One can't invest what they don't have and most are not spending oodles on "toys."  Some are, I'm sure, but... come to my school and let me introduce you to some real people.

 

Around here (MN) there is a huge need for electricians. My dh isn't union, but the local union rep visits him about every 9mos to try to get him to join. DH makes over twice the median wage for our area, but still there is a huge shortage. My brother is a carpenter, and he could tell the same type of story.

 

Just to add info relevant to another part of the country. :)

 

Yes.  It's extremely important to know what's needed in an area because areas differ.  One can't make blanket statements.  This is why I added my local area thoughts to the OP's suggestion that we need to encourage more electricians.  In some areas this is probably true.  In mine?  Not so much.  Our school is turning out welders because companies have come to them mentioning that as a need.  ;)

 

FWIW, a beginning welder still doesn't earn enough to save 20K per year though, esp in a risky investment.  They should be able to save some - just not that much.

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My purpose in bringing up government was to point out that it's not a mere lack of education in money management that leads both people and governments into debt. The problem is much deeper and much more serious than that.

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Living at home does save money. But..transportation costs can eat that savings in a heartbeart.

 

Basic problem is lack of affordable housing near jobs.  You work construction.  Where's the housing for young people?  I see plenty for that income level, but funny, its all reserved for seniors. What the heck do they need housing by a work site for, while their gc are commuting an hour and a half ?  And funny, those seniors have tax exemptions and subsidized rent while they have the same income and more wealth than the gc...where's the govt policy to let the kids get launched? Why can granny support two homes on SS, while the gc can't rent a 1 bedroom apt for less than 25% of their gross income?

Edited by Heigh Ho
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