Pre-K Vs Kindy

[rainbowmama]

I have a four year old with an October birthday who has never been in school. He has a mild speech delay and is a very spirited child but is starting to read and do other kindergarten math, despite being athird child. He misses the public school cut-off for kindergarten by less than two months: I am less than thrilled with the idea of him being one of the oldest kids in his class. I am struggling with postpartum mood issues following the birth of our fifth and thinking about putting the kids in school next year if my mental health doesn't start to improve soon. I'm really not sure what to do with him. My options are:

 

1) public preschool: it is taught in part by high school students as part of a child development class, but other than minor material fees, it's free and five half days a week; I'd have to drive him there and back and it's not very close; it's also an academic preschool where he likely knows the material - however, he would get additional speech therapy there (currently, he gets private speech)

2) play-based preschool at the nature center: two days a week, very close, but he will not get additional speech therapy there

3) private kindergarten: the only way to accelerate a kid currently where I live is to put them in private kindy at four and then enroll them in first grade at the public school the next year. I'd love to find a play-based half day kindergarten for him next year, but most schools that will take a four year old for kindergarten here are academic

4) Continue to homeschool, I guess, and just send the rest of the kids, but really, he's probably the kid whose education I want to outsource the most, as he's so spirited

Edited December 5, 2017 by rainbowmama

[SKL]

I would probably choose the private KG.  If he is already reading, an academic KG won't hurt him, unless the teachers are poorly trained or nasty.

 

My second choice would be the nature center + homeschooling.

[City Mouse]

With all the pressure on young kids in public school, I would not be quick to accelerate child of mine. It is much easier to be one of the older kids in a class than it is to be the youngest -especially a kid with some special needs.

[rebbyribs]

I've got a child in about the same situation - he turned 4 in September and misses the cutoff here by 2 weeks. I'm going with something like your options 2 & 4 - a one-day a week outdoor program plus homeschooling.  I think the outdoor time is really good for him and the time commitment for homeschooling K is still pretty small.  I

[SKL]

If you do choose KG, keep your options open so you can decide whether or not to do a 2nd year of KG vs. move on to 1st.  You say your son is spirited, so it will be interesting to see how he does with the classroom situation.

 

Both of my daughters started private KG at 4 (October and January birthdays), and it was good for them.  I'm only suggesting an "out" since your child is a boy and you describe him in a way that suggests he might be a challenging student.  :)

 

I do agree that school is more demanding nowadays in many places, but this has not been an issue for my accelerated early reader.  If anything she could use more challenge so she could feel less need for her books and toys in school.  :P

[LMD]

I'd pick #2. It's close, 2 full days so you actually get a decent rest those days, with 3 extra days for speech and homeschooling. 5 days of driving for half days would be too much for me - how much of a break would you even get before having to turn around and pick up?

The private kindy would be my next choice.

[sassenach]

Things to consider- if you accelerate him, he will be the youngest in his grade by a decent margin. I have 2 late August kids- one is on the older end and one is on the younger in their grade. My kid who’s on the older end has had some distinct advantages. His maturity level is a huge plus. Especially in middle/high school. His friend who was accelerated sometimes has these emotional moments that are age appropriate but not grade appropriate, and that has led to some social barriers.

 

So I guess I would ask is he emotionally mature for his age? If not, you might consider sticking with his appropriate grade placement.

[Chris in VA]

I teach preschool currently and have taught public school K. 

Honestly, I would keep him in preK and not attempt K until he's a solid 5 year old. But--why do you hate the idea of him being the oldest? I can tell you, it is a Good and Joyful Thing (lol) when kids come to kindergarten with some

executive function maturity. I would rather have a kid who has a measure of self-control, can listen and follow instructions, and gets along well with peers than a kid who knows how to read and do maths already.

 

I vote for 2 days of nature based preschool, some homeschooling, and you getting services from the school system or community board in your town that are offered to preschoolers. Around here, that's Childfind. IDK what it is where you live, but you are entitled to help. That, with private speech (or maybe without) is probably enough and wouldn't entail you running around quite as much as 3Xweek preschool. 

 

YMMV, and prob does, but around here, public preschool is all Head Start, and it's a nightmare. There are 18-25 kids in a class, with a teacher and an aide, and a planning sub. The kids who come have very little exposure to learning materials, difficult behavior is very common, and it's all worksheet and stuff like that. BUT yours may be different. I never recommend public preschool around here, though. 

[Mommyof1]

Do you think he would benefit from the extra speech therapy?

[rainbowmama]

With all the pressure on young kids in public school, I would not be quick to accelerate child of mine. It is much easier to be one of the older kids in a class than it is to be the youngest -especially a kid with some special needs.

 

My oldest went to the public kindergarten with a more severe speech issue (but the SLP still decided it wasn't severe enough to qualify - though I still regret that I didn't take her privately then!) and academically advanced: reading chapter books and being able to do math with regrouping and square small numbers... and kindergarten was a complete and utter mess and ultimately led us to homeschooling. I really want this child to have a more positive experience, and I do think the lack of academic accommodation played a large role in why things went poorly.

[rainbowmama]

I teach preschool currently and have taught public school K. 

Honestly, I would keep him in preK and not attempt K until he's a solid 5 year old. But--why do you hate the idea of him being the oldest? I can tell you, it is a Good and Joyful Thing (lol) when kids come to kindergarten with some

executive function maturity. I would rather have a kid who has a measure of self-control, can listen and follow instructions, and gets along well with peers than a kid who knows how to read and do maths already.

 

I vote for 2 days of nature based preschool, some homeschooling, and you getting services from the school system or community board in your town that are offered to preschoolers. Around here, that's Childfind. IDK what it is where you live, but you are entitled to help. That, with private speech (or maybe without) is probably enough and wouldn't entail you running around quite as much as 3Xweek preschool. 

 

YMMV, and prob does, but around here, public preschool is all Head Start, and it's a nightmare. There are 18-25 kids in a class, with a teacher and an aide, and a planning sub. The kids who come have very little exposure to learning materials, difficult behavior is very common, and it's all worksheet and stuff like that. BUT yours may be different. I never recommend public preschool around here, though. 

 

This kid definitely struggles with self-control and following directions... but I definitely wonder if putting him with a bunch of less mature kids will really foster him to act more mature, since odds are a lot of those kids are more immature than him, you know? 

[rainbowmama]

Do you think he would benefit from the extra speech therapy?

 

I'm not sure. I'm not even sure he'd qualify: my oldest had/has more severe speech issues and went to public kindergarten but did not qualify for services (but did qualify for private services). The articulation errors has would be perfectly normal in a child who was three, which are most kids in his grade level at this point. I know the public school only does group therapy, so I'm not sure if it would help or not.

[KungFuPanda]

With the speech delay and the high spirit, it might serve him well to have that extra year to mature. With the reading expectations in kindergarten these days, I wouldn’t worry that he’ll be bored while other kids learn their letters. You’re not even holding back a kid who is old enough to go. I doubt he’ll be the oldest once you add to the class the kids born a month ahead of him AND the kids that started K a year late. There’s also the kids who may be younger than him but are mature for their age. There’s just a lot more to cope with in K than math and reading.

 

You may find you WANT that extra year before thebintense homework comes home or for SAT prep.

[SKL]

Another consideration is how big the private KG class is.  There were only 9 kids in my daughters' KG class, which made it a lot more like preschool to be honest.  A class of 30 might be difficult for a "spirited young boy" to navigate.

 

As for the reading expectations in KG, I honestly don't see a difference between kids learning "cat" / "dog" vs. "ABC" vs "light/fight" when my kid is reading Harry Potter.  All of them are the same for her - having nothing to do while the kids learn stuff you already know.  My goal was to get my kid into the higher grades ASAP where she could actually participate in what the class was doing for some % of the time.

[Zinnia]

My June birthday waited for kindergarten. He was not thr most mature in the class. There were girls 14 months younger that are more mature. :D

[Lecka]

I would do the 2-day nature center. I think all your choices are fine, though, and it can be personal preference.

 

I wouldn't want to drive farther and I don't think I'd mind only 2 days a week.

 

If your son might be bored with older kids at school that would push me toward the 5-day, especially if you won't want to supervise him at the park or library or whatever bc you aren't getting enough sleep (or whatever).

[Lecka]

I would do the 2-day nature center. I think all your choices are fine, though, and it can be personal preference.

 

I wouldn't want to drive farther and I don't think I'd mind only 2 days a week.

 

If your son might be bored with older kids at school that would push me toward the 5-day, especially if you won't want to supervise him at the park or library or whatever bc you aren't getting enough sleep (or whatever).

 

Edit: the speech therapy is probably a non-issue, when he is already doing private. You can ask the private therapist for an opinion on that, too.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Lecka

[wendyroo]

Is the nature center preschool full days?  If so, I would choose that.

 

Or, are there any "preschools" at nearby daycare centers.  I went to visit a couple of them when I was considering putting my oldest in preschool.  Several of the centers allowed you to choose three, four or five full days (with commensurate prices, obviously).  The academics weren't anything to write home about, but since the kids were there all day, spending half an hour doing worksheets didn't seem so bad when the rest of the time was spent listening to stories, playing inside and out, eating lunch, having a quiet rest time, etc.

 

Wendy

[sassenach]

This kid definitely struggles with self-control and following directions... but I definitely wonder if putting him with a bunch of less mature kids will really foster him to act more mature, since odds are a lot of those kids are more immature than him, you know? 

IME self-control is developmental, not learned. So you can put him with older kids, and he might end up alienating himself because their self-control is not going to just rub off on him.

 

Alternately, being in a group of developmentally appropriate peers might allow him some true growth and on-level peer interactions. And don't forget, it's not like he's going to be the only fall birthday kid. He will have agemates, too.

[chiguirre]

Would you want him to go away to college at 17?

[TechWife]

I recommend not enrolling him in kindergarten. Being the oldest boy in a class is an advantage, not a disadvantage. Kindergarten is about much more than academics.

[Xahm]

I understand completely your desire to not have him bored out of his mind in kindergarten. My five year old is currently in public kindergarten. She's there all day, and while she finds some aspects fun, overall she dreads it. They think they are differentiating for her when they occasionally hand her an easy reader she read literally a year ago. She gets exhausted by the length of day and being away from home, so she comes home wanting stimulation but too tired to do much. Not a good combo. We are going to home school starting in January. She is one of the youngest in her class (late June birthday, early August cutoff). I have thought how rough this would be with her brothers, who are set to be among the oldest in their classes.

I have no advice, sorry, as I'm still muddling through myself, but I understand your concern. And lots of 17 year olds go to college and are fine, and lots of kids take gap years, so I wouldn't worry about that part now.

[rdj2027]

I would go with the nature center and homeschooling.  I have had accelerated kids in K, they ended up either being ignored because they already knew all the material or they were the "helper" supposed to teach other kids and rein in their behavior.  Our oldest was way ahead but like yours a "spirited child".  The combination between active, curious, academically ahead and sitting close to 7 hours a day did not work out well.

[lavender's green]

My 4 year old will miss the cut-off date by mere days. It used to kill me that he'd be waiting a whole year to get going on school, just because I didn't go into labor with him quite early enough - and I nearly did!. But after watching that big brother (very young for his class) and some friends' kids, I'm feeling more confident about keeping him as the oldest in his class. YMMV. There are so many factors and preferences to consider. Being oldest is not a bad thing, though.

 

From an early age it was clear that my DH could have skipped several grades from an academic point of view. Socially, he couldn't have handled it. Yes, school bored him to tears, but now he's a successful adult with no ill effects from the early boredom.

[MinivanMom]

I am generally a huge advocate of placing kids in their correct grade - which in your case would be preschool since he misses the cut-off. However, I wanted to address this:

 

IME self-control is developmental, not learned. So you can put him with older kids, and he might end up alienating himself because their self-control is not going to just rub off on him.

 

Alternately, being in a group of developmentally appropriate peers might allow him some true growth and on-level peer interactions. And don't forget, it's not like he's going to be the only fall birthday kid. He will have agemates, too.

 

I have a little guy who is super intelligent and has always been several grade levels ahead of his peers academically. But he is socially immature for his age and has been slow to develop executive function and self-control. It's nothing out of the range of normal for little boys his age, but there is a glaring gap between his maturity and his academic level.

 

Anyway, we had a situation at our church where he was placed in the higher Sunday school class due to a lack of children his age. I was strongly opposed to the placement, but wasn't really given a say. It was a disaster - a huge ongoing disaster. He was surrounded by kids who were a year or more older than him, and he seemed to be glaringly lacking in self-control when you saw him surrounded by older, more mature children. The teachers would get frustrated with him for completely age-appropriate behaviors, and he became more and more alienated from the other children over time. He had no friends.

 

We finally got the situation fixed so that he was with kids his own age, and it was like a miraculous change happened overnight. He was exactly the same kid with exactly the same amount of self-control, but he no longer stood out. All the same-age kids were pretty close to his maturity level, and the new teachers gave the amount of guidance and support that kids that age need. He started to have positive peer interactions and make friends.

 

Kids do not magically learn self-control or pro-social behavior by being around older kids. It is developmental. I have seen early-kindergarten entry and grade-skipping work out very positively for kids who are both academically advanced and have strong executive function and self-control. But I would think very carefully before moving forward with early-kindergarten entry for a little boy who is a spirited handful. 

[sassenach]

I am generally a huge advocate of placing kids in their correct grade - which in your case would be preschool since he misses the cut-off. However, I wanted to address this:

 

 

I have a little guy who is super intelligent and has always been several grade levels ahead of his peers academically. But he is socially immature for his age and has been slow to develop executive function and self-control. It's nothing out of the range of normal for little boys his age, but there is a glaring gap between his maturity and his academic level.

 

Anyway, we had a situation at our church where he was placed in the higher Sunday school class due to a lack of children his age. I was strongly opposed to the placement, but wasn't really given a say. It was a disaster - a huge ongoing disaster. He was surrounded by kids who were a year or more older than him, and he seemed to be glaringly lacking in self-control when you saw him surrounded by older, more mature children. The teachers would get frustrated with him for completely age-appropriate behaviors, and he became more and more alienated from the other children over time. He had no friends.

 

We finally got the situation fixed so that he was with kids his own age, and it was like a miraculous change happened overnight. He was exactly the same kid with exactly the same amount of self-control, but he no longer stood out. All the same-age kids were pretty close to his maturity level, and the new teachers gave the amount of guidance and support that kids that age need. He started to have positive peer interactions and make friends.

 

Kids do not magically learn self-control or pro-social behavior by being around older kids. It is developmental. I have seen early-kindergarten entry and grade-skipping work out very positively for kids who are both academically advanced and have strong executive function and self-control. But I would think very carefully before moving forward with early-kindergarten entry for a little boy who is a spirited handful. 

I've seen exactly this scenario happen several times. The other kids aren't trying to exclude, it's just that immaturity ends up being expressed in less body awareness, or more interrupting. Then the more mature kids think of the younger kid as weird or rude or mean (I cannot tell you how many times I've had to talk kids through a situation where they interpret lack of self-control as meanness), and the less mature kid ends up with a much smaller circle of peers who want to be his/her friend. 

 

Put that same kid with peers at the same developmental level and presto-chango! you have a child who is no longer the problem child and accepted into his peer group.

[sassenach]

I have so many opinions about this, I'm sorry!

 

Another positive for my old-for-his-grade kid, if your son might have any athletic leanings (I know it's hard to tell w a 4 year old), my son is gaining some major advantages in his sport. It may make the difference in college recruitment. (this is where the term red-shirting originated)

 

Also, just a word of support, I totally get that this child is driving you bananas right now. Definitely choose a route that will help support your mental health needs, even if that means 2 years of K.

[musicianmom]

*

Edited May 21, 2022 by musicianmom

[DesertBlossom]

JMO but I would never accelerate a boy. I think it would be really good for him to be one of the older kids in his class. It really makes a big difference. I would find a pre-k for this year.

[JenneinCA]

I usually stay out of these conversations, but given the amount of “I would never let my son be the youngest kid in the class†posts, I feel obligated to say something.

 

My older son has an October birthday. He has been the youngest in his classes for several years and will be for many more. He is distracted and has executive function issues sometimes. He is also very very smart. Holding him back from learning at an appropriate level would have made all of the executive function and maturity issues worse. It is horribly difficult to pay attention to boring material that is light years below instructional level. There is no situation with age mates that will work for my son.

 

Make the best choice you can for the child in front of you right now. There is no magic ball that will let you see the future. Take your best guess with the information and resources available and go from there. No decision is unchangable. And enjoy the little person you have.

[Zinnia]

Holding him back from learning at an appropriate level would have made all of the executive function and maturity issues worse. It is horribly difficult to pay attention to boring material that is light years below instructional level. There is no situation with age mates that will work for my son.

 

 

This is true.

 

My 5th grader goes to a high achiever magnet school. It's not *that* high achieving or anything, but all the kids are who would be in gifted in their home schools. The vast majority of the boys have birthdays from August-december, with a few having June or July birthdays. It's lottery based, so just sort of how it worked out that year.

 

However, there are 2 kids in the grade that were grade skipped, plus spring birthdays. They are 18 months younger than the rest of the boys, and they seem to do fine.

[Lanny]

My DD has an October birthday.  The school we started her in (she was there for K4 and K5 and First Grade and then most of our income stopped and we had to pull her out of there)  has 2 years of Kindergarten.  K4 and K5.  Most of the kids there probably had no exposure to English, so that gave them some extra time to begin with English and to mature.

 

I do not see a disadvantage to being one of the older kids in a classroom.  I think the kids who were in the classroom my DD was in in K4 were selected for that teacher, because they were more advanced.

 

Also, before K4, my DD was in a wonderful Pre School for 2 school years. She learned a lot there and I'm sure that helped her when she went to the big school. 1 or 2 of the kids who were in her group there were held back, because they were not ready to go to a big school.

 

I hope you make a decision you are happy with and can relax more.

[TechWife]

This kid definitely struggles with self-control and following directions... but I definitely wonder if putting him with a bunch of less mature kids will really foster him to act more mature, since odds are a lot of those kids are more immature than him, you know? 

 

That isn't the idea. The idea is that he will be more mature in his own right, more able to meet the social expectations of Kindergarten. If he struggles with self-control and following directions now, giving him one more year to mature in those area as well as in other areas will be to his advantage, not his disadvantage.  If you put him in K now, he will be less mature than his classmates, with less self-control and he may not be able to keep up with the class as his ability to follow directions isn't quite there. This inability to control oneself (emotionally, physically) and follow directions (which is also self-control) is normal for young children. That's why cut-off dates exist. There is only so much time and energy a teacher can give to a student. Having a student that isn't ready act out in class and not keep up is a disadvantage to all of the students in the class. You also don't want to set him up for failure. If he is is not on-level with his classmates in the self-control department, then you risk him falling apart emotionally, socially and academically. Do you want your child to have crying spells, temper tantrums, etc. in a classroom and at home because he is overwhelmed by the expectations of the classroom - expectations that are simply not developmentally appropriate for him at this time, but in another year, will be much more appropriate? 

[bettyandbob]

I have a DS with a November birthday. He was reading at 4. He progressed rapidly through early chapter books to Harry Potter 1 and 2 by the end of K. He was also ahead in math. His preferred reading was actually nonfiction so he had quite advanced knowledge of science and history.

 

He went to private school halfway through grade 2. It was a school that had an advanced curriculum, they still had him skip a grade. We left that school due to bullying a few years later. DS homeschooled again and then did public high school.

 

Long story short. DS is 23 and in grad school. I know now that grade skipping did not help him at all. He was going to find his way academically anyway. But he was so socially immature and had no executive function skills. These are things you won't notice in elementary school.

 

If I had it to do again I absolutely would not grade skip.

 

Dh was really pushing it and kind of over ruled me. I actually skipped 2 grades. It was not good for me. I convinced myself it would be different for ds.

 

In your situation I'd go observe the public school program. If my gut told me it was safe and pleasant, I'd do that. I'd have stuff at home for ds to explore/read on his own for enrichment.

[2squared]

I have two boys with sep and oct bdays. My other three have March and April birthdays. My fall birthday kids have a lot of kids older than them in their class. My spring bday kids all have kids more than a year older than them in their classes.

 

Being older in a class is a clear benefit imo. My spring bday boy is gifted. Academics at school bore him no matter which class he is in (as an 8th grader he is in some 9th grade classes), so he has to find challenge in other ways. This would be his fate whether we had grade skipped him or held him back.

[2squared]

With an oct bday, I think you will find he is closer to the middle of his grade rather than on the older side.

[luuknam]

Nature center. Partly because 2 full days would be so much better for my schedule than 5 half days. Of course, YMMV on that one. 

[Terabith]

Nature center. I think putting him in kindergarten early is a bad idea; the two full days would be much better for my schedule, and I think an outdoors nature program sounds awesome and ideal for an active, spirited boy. I wouldn’t want to pass up that opportunity no matter what the other options are.

[Lecka]

But redshirting is a lot more common now. 

 

My son who has an April birthday, with a September cut-off, has been the youngest boy in his class several times in elementary school, and he has even been the youngest child in his class out of boys and girls. 

 

Granted it is late in April, but still, an awful lot of those June, July, and August birthday boys are actually older than him. 

 

So really, most of the boys born in June, July, August, and September could be older, if redshirting is common. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Lecka

[Lecka]

I also didn't retain my April birthday boy in Kindergarten.... it was suggested by his K teacher. 

 

Really, he is fine, but in middle school his executive functioning is not quite up to the expectations.  I think he would be fine if he were in 6th grade now instead of 7th grade.  And I also think he would be fine either way, but I can see why people recommend letting kids be on the older end instead of one of the youngest. 

 

[Lecka]

My husband was old for his grade and HATED it, which is why our son didn't repeat K..... And I think with him he is honestly fine in 7th, and he would also be fine if he were in 6th right now.  He has an April birthday, though, too, and not a summer birthday, and also my husband matured earlier than other boys in his grade, which was a huge concern to him as far as repeating K, but my son is now one of the smaller kids in 7th grade while many other boys have had their growth spurts.  So it has turned out that ----- it is just impossible for us to predict based on my husband's experiences, or what I would have predicted back when we were deciding.  He is taking responsibility for himself academically, it is just harder for him I think, but I also thought he would be earlier to get tall and shave and stuff!  And so far -- none of it. 

 

I hear a stereotype often that boys like to mature earlier and to have girls like them sooner, but my husband didn't like it, he was just embarrassed. 

 

But I don't know if we can predict that with kids, since my son is now older than either myself or my husband were! 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Lecka