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bcbbmom

Word final disfluency..

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I hope I'm posting this in the right section..  My 6-year-old daughter repeats the last syllable of some words, and has done so for over 2 years.  We thought she would grow out of it, but she hasn't so far.  I finally saw someone for it last week (a teaching college, actually), and they were a little stumped.  They said this isn't the normal type of disfluency they see, but they're interested in looking in to it and possibly providing therapy.  They tested her hearing, language skills, etc., and the final thoughts the Dr. shared with me was that my daughter's language skills are exceptional, and it seems like her mouth can't catch up to her brain, so to speak.  This is what my husband and I have thought the entire time, but I'm still very concerned that it's becoming a habit that she can't grow out of.  The strange thing is that she seems to do this at home more than other places.  She barely did it when they were testing her, so I had to show them a video.  When I google it, it scares me, because it seems as though word final disfluency is rare, and is associated with disorders such as ADHD, Autism, etc.  I would love to hear from others who are familiar with this, and have successfully helped their children to overcome it.  

I'm not sure when they will be able to start therapy, since we're at the end of a semester, so I'm trying to find someplace that could start asap.  We live in the middle of nowhere, however, and good health care is at a minimum.  

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I know this is concerning but you are heading in the right direction by asking questions and seeking help.  Don't be scared.  Even if it IS tied to something like ADHD or Autism or dyslexia or some sort of auditory processing issue or whatever, there are a lot of kids (and parents) on this LC forum that are learning and doing well that have one or some or all of those diagnoses.  Even if she does have one of those challenges, it is not the end of the world.   I promise.  Right now you need answers, though, and those may take some time and effort to find.  Kuddos to you for seeking those answers.

 

I wish I had some experience with what you are describing.  I hope someone else will respond that does.  It would be very beneficial to you and your child if the person doing therapy had had experience with exactly what your child is dealing with and since the people who evaluated her actually don't KNOW what your child is dealing with I agree you should keep seeking answers while you work with the people currently available.  Also, if your child is gifted, you really need someone who has experience dealing with gifted children.  Gifted with glitches is a whole other ballgame.  Without experience dealing with that scenario they may not be able to help your child much.

 

in the meantime, how well does she read silently?  Does she seem to comprehend what she is reading?  When you read to her does she comprehend what you are reading?  How is her writing?  Besides repeating the last syllable of some words, how is her out loud decoding and fluency otherwise?  What sort of reading program, if any, has she used?

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If yor insurance will cover an excellent neuropsych eval, like one in a big city with a really good neuropsych who will take the time to look at parts of the brain affected (which is what a neuropsych is supposed to do), that would be your best bet.

 

https://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/isad4/papers/humphrey.html

 

This article says that word final dysfluency is *not* a form of stuttering and that it is more similar to palilalia, which is associated with neurological disorders, including Parkinsons. So whatever the explanation, it's likely in the brain, meaning an excellent neuropsych would possibly be the one to sort it out. 

 

If you look at the data in that article, there's no reason to think it's strongly correlated with ADHD or ASD. Do you have reasons otherwise to think those things are going on? I think your other next step would be to talk with your pediatrician. You might be required to for insurance purposes for referrals, but also the ped would have screening tools for ADHD, ASD, etc. However, to me even if those things are diagnosed I'm not seeing them as an explanation. They might like to do MRIs and figure out what is actually going on to cause this. I'm not saying they would, just tossing that out as observations. These are not, it seems, normal run of the mill symptoms that they would just go oh yeah she has ADHD and that's why it happened.

 

I would not get therapy with students, just me personally. We've done speech therapy for many years, since my ds was newly 2, and the experience and quality of the therapist matters. Especially when they haven't done neuropsych evals, MRIs, nothing to figure out what is going on, that's absurd. Even to say it's processing speed, well that's presumptive and wasn't followed up with testing to say yes, that's the explanation. That's stuff a neuropsych could quantify, yes.

 

So see if you can get evals and more testing, that would be my advice. She's at a good age for testing. We did my ds when he was newly 6. It's old enough that they can run a lot of the better tests they want to run, so you'll probably find out some things. If necessary, travel farther or go out of state.

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As far as reading goes, she isn't reading on her own yet.  I have some guilt about that, as I was convinced that later was better in regard to any structured schoolwork.  I feel like maybe I've slacked a bit too much in that area.  She does comprehend well when I'm reading to her.  As far as her writing, that's another thing we're working on.  Her pencil grip has been an issue, and I'm still trying new things to help her in that area.

 

I know this is concerning but you are heading in the right direction by asking questions and seeking help.  Don't be scared.  Even if it IS tied to something like ADHD or Autism or dyslexia or some sort of auditory processing issue or whatever, there are a lot of kids (and parents) on this LC forum that are learning and doing well that have one or some or all of those diagnoses.  Even if she does have one of those challenges, it is not the end of the world.   I promise.  Right now you need answers, though, and those may take some time and effort to find.  Kuddos to you for seeking those answers.

 

I wish I had some experience with what you are describing.  I hope someone else will respond that does.  It would be very beneficial to you and your child if the person doing therapy had had experience with exactly what your child is dealing with and since the people who evaluated her actually don't KNOW what your child is dealing with I agree you should keep seeking answers while you work with the people currently available.  Also, if your child is gifted, you really need someone who has experience dealing with gifted children.  Gifted with glitches is a whole other ballgame.  Without experience dealing with that scenario they may not be able to help your child much.

 

in the meantime, how well does she read silently?  Does she seem to comprehend what she is reading?  When you read to her does she comprehend what you are reading?  How is her writing?  Besides repeating the last syllable of some words, how is her out loud decoding and fluency otherwise?  What sort of reading program, if any, has she used?

 

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Thank you.  I think you're both right, that I need to find someone better qualified.  I have no problem going out of state if need be.  I'm in Central Kansas (2 hours from Wichita) if anyone knows of any good doctors!  :)  We do have a Children's hospital in Kansas City (5 hours from me), so maybe I will give them a call.  

If yor insurance will cover an excellent neuropsych eval, like one in a big city with a really good neuropsych who will take the time to look at parts of the brain affected (which is what a neuropsych is supposed to do), that would be your best bet.

 

https://www.mnsu.edu/comdis/isad4/papers/humphrey.html

 

This article says that word final dysfluency is *not* a form of stuttering and that it is more similar to palilalia, which is associated with neurological disorders, including Parkinsons. So whatever the explanation, it's likely in the brain, meaning an excellent neuropsych would possibly be the one to sort it out. 

 

If you look at the data in that article, there's no reason to think it's strongly correlated with ADHD or ASD. Do you have reasons otherwise to think those things are going on? I think your other next step would be to talk with your pediatrician. You might be required to for insurance purposes for referrals, but also the ped would have screening tools for ADHD, ASD, etc. However, to me even if those things are diagnosed I'm not seeing them as an explanation. They might like to do MRIs and figure out what is actually going on to cause this. I'm not saying they would, just tossing that out as observations. These are not, it seems, normal run of the mill symptoms that they would just go oh yeah she has ADHD and that's why it happened.

 

I would not get therapy with students, just me personally. We've done speech therapy for many years, since my ds was newly 2, and the experience and quality of the therapist matters. Especially when they haven't done neuropsych evals, MRIs, nothing to figure out what is going on, that's absurd. Even to say it's processing speed, well that's presumptive and wasn't followed up with testing to say yes, that's the explanation. That's stuff a neuropsych could quantify, yes.

 

So see if you can get evals and more testing, that would be my advice. She's at a good age for testing. We did my ds when he was newly 6. It's old enough that they can run a lot of the better tests they want to run, so you'll probably find out some things. If necessary, travel farther or go out of state.

 

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Around here, hospital psychs are about 3X the cost of private, so it really matters who is paying. 

 

The other thing you can do is network through your ped. Doesn't have to only be one or the other. The ped office can then call and let the nurse at the hospital figure out which psych would be best qualified to do the eval. It's just a way. They'll often have specialties. For instance one psych we used had done a lot of work in assessing the effect of chemo on children, and another was very into EF. So you could try to find someone that is particularly into the neurological aspects and see if they'll sleuth a bit. They'll usually talk with you on the phone for a few minutes, so you could tell them briefly what is going on and see if they seem like they'd be helpful.

 

At 6 with pencil grip, might be nice to go ahead and get an OT eval while you're at it. Not that it's an issue, but at this point don't screw around, kwim? Go ahead and get the eval (usually around $100 around here), let them tell you what is going on, let them give you things to target it. Doesn't have to be a lot of $$$ sessions if you're paying. Even just an eval and feedback on what to DO could be enlightening.

Edited by PeterPan
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You wrote that:'she seems to do this at home more than other places.'

Which suggests that it isn't pathological.  As it would then occur more generally.

 

Though she could be using it as what is called a 'postponement device'?

Where it provides a little extra time, to consider what she will or wont say next?

 

The most effective treatment for this, is for her to become aware that she is doing. 

Then taking control of it.

This involves catching her when does it, and have her repeat the word correctly.

As she mostly does it at home, this would make it easier to do.

 

 

Edited by geodob
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We have had our share of issues to address with my kids. What you describe has not been one of them, so I totally don't have knowledgeable advice to offer about how to help her.

 

But I will agree with others that paying people to provide therapy, when they admit they have no idea what is actually wrong.....not the best choice. I know it sometimes feels like we should grab any help that is offered, but I think that you should consider this evaluation you just had to be a start of a journey toward figuring it out. A good step, but not where you stop.

 

Somehow, you need to find someone who is an expert in this kind of thing and take her there for evaluation.

 

I know it can be scary to think there may be something wrong and that we might hear distressing news about disabilities. It's really emotional and hard!! But don't let that block you from seeking help. Whatever the cause is, being able to NAME it won't change anything, other than knowing better how to help her. The underlying cause is present, whether you name it or not. It's a normal fear, but you can face it and march forward!!

 

:grouphug:

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Hello! I signed up for an account just to post in this thread. 

 

My son (now eight) has/had this. Like you, I got pretty freaked out when I googled about it. I hesitate to say "don't worry about it", but I have noticed in him that it comes in waves, and now that he's eight, it seems that it has diminished so much that I haven't thought about it in months. I think it was at its peak around six. The people I talked to about it (his pediatrician, his head of school, who has an advanced degree in child development) both thought, like the doctor you spoke with, that it was more an issue of language skills that dramatically outpace his physical ability to speak. 

 

I would often notice that he would "hang" on a final syllable seemingly when his brain was preparing the next clause. Sort of a placeholder to let people know he wasn't done talking. (He's a big talker.) So it often looked like "Yesterday morning, I went to the playground-ound-ound-ound and when we arrived, I saw that a tree had been knocked over during the storm-orm-orm-orm, I discovered that workers had brought an excavator to cut it into pieces and take it away!" 

 

I'll have to pay close attention to see if this is still happening these days. As I said above I haven't thought about it in months. I got the impression from the folks I talked to about it that the fact that it was situational, and/or came in waves, and then went away again for long periods, might mean that it had something to do with developmental leaps. I often wondered if it was connected to his brain making new connections that outpaced his ability to say what he wanted to say. 

 

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Thank you so, so much for posting this!  I honestly haven't even checked this thread for days, but something made me come here today.  I feel like I've spent so much time researching and trying to figure it out, and it's been pretty stressful.  This post gave me a sense of peace, and I'm just going to give myself permission to relax my mind about it until after the holidays.  

 

 

Hello! I signed up for an account just to post in this thread. 

 

My son (now eight) has/had this. Like you, I got pretty freaked out when I googled about it. I hesitate to say "don't worry about it", but I have noticed in him that it comes in waves, and now that he's eight, it seems that it has diminished so much that I haven't thought about it in months. I think it was at its peak around six. The people I talked to about it (his pediatrician, his head of school, who has an advanced degree in child development) both thought, like the doctor you spoke with, that it was more an issue of language skills that dramatically outpace his physical ability to speak. 

 

I would often notice that he would "hang" on a final syllable seemingly when his brain was preparing the next clause. Sort of a placeholder to let people know he wasn't done talking. (He's a big talker.) So it often looked like "Yesterday morning, I went to the playground-ound-ound-ound and when we arrived, I saw that a tree had been knocked over during the storm-orm-orm-orm, I discovered that workers had brought an excavator to cut it into pieces and take it away!" 

 

I'll have to pay close attention to see if this is still happening these days. As I said above I haven't thought about it in months. I got the impression from the folks I talked to about it that the fact that it was situational, and/or came in waves, and then went away again for long periods, might mean that it had something to do with developmental leaps. I often wondered if it was connected to his brain making new connections that outpaced his ability to say what he wanted to say. 

 

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Hello! I signed up for an account just to post in this thread. 

 

My son (now eight) has/had this. Like you, I got pretty freaked out when I googled about it. I hesitate to say "don't worry about it", but I have noticed in him that it comes in waves, and now that he's eight, it seems that it has diminished so much that I haven't thought about it in months. I think it was at its peak around six. The people I talked to about it (his pediatrician, his head of school, who has an advanced degree in child development) both thought, like the doctor you spoke with, that it was more an issue of language skills that dramatically outpace his physical ability to speak. 

 

I would often notice that he would "hang" on a final syllable seemingly when his brain was preparing the next clause. Sort of a placeholder to let people know he wasn't done talking. (He's a big talker.) So it often looked like "Yesterday morning, I went to the playground-ound-ound-ound and when we arrived, I saw that a tree had been knocked over during the storm-orm-orm-orm, I discovered that workers had brought an excavator to cut it into pieces and take it away!" 

 

I'll have to pay close attention to see if this is still happening these days. As I said above I haven't thought about it in months. I got the impression from the folks I talked to about it that the fact that it was situational, and/or came in waves, and then went away again for long periods, might mean that it had something to do with developmental leaps. I often wondered if it was connected to his brain making new connections that outpaced his ability to say what he wanted to say. 

Oh my goodness, I had totally forgotten that my dyslexic kiddo used to do this. It was troubling! He is 17 now and does not do this. I can't remember exactly when he stopped. He went to public high school at 14, and certainly wasn't doing it then. In hindsight, I would think it likely to be asynchronous development, just as mentioned here. He was a late talker, but when he spoke it was in complete sentences. So here too, yes probably bigger thoughts than physical ability to get them out.

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Thank you so, so much for posting this!  I honestly haven't even checked this thread for days, but something made me come here today.  I feel like I've spent so much time researching and trying to figure it out, and it's been pretty stressful.  This post gave me a sense of peace, and I'm just going to give myself permission to relax my mind about it until after the holidays.  

 

I so understand this! I remember googling about this and really sinking into a feeling of anxiety, it seemed that the only people talking about it were discussing pretty alarming issues. 

 

Oh my goodness, I had totally forgotten that my dyslexic kiddo used to do this. It was troubling! He is 17 now and does not do this. I can't remember exactly when he stopped. He went to public high school at 14, and certainly wasn't doing it then. In hindsight, I would think it likely to be asynchronous development, just as mentioned here. He was a late talker, but when he spoke it was in complete sentences. So here too, yes probably bigger thoughts than physical ability to get them out.

 

This is good to hear! My son was also a late talker who spoke in sentences when he got going. 

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My 8yo DS#2 and 6yo DS#3 both do this, too.  DS#2 does it more frequently and about the same in all situations; DS#3 is just as likely to repeat entire words or even several words in a row but it also seems to be situational for him.  8yo has ADHD combined type and stealth dyslexia (he's 2e and actually reads several years above grade level, but *is* dyslexic).  My 6yo doesn't have any academic issues at all, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he eventually ended up with an ADHD inattentive type diagnosis.  Also, he has speech articulation issues.  Besides repeating the last syllable of or entire words, he also omits end (and sometimes other) consonants and makes some sound substitutions. 

 

Both boys have had speech evals, and DS#3 has been in weekly speech therapy since last spring-ish.  The SLPs they saw thought it was weird, but neither seemed particularly concerned by it.  In DS#2's case, it seems to be his mouth trying to catch up to his brain or maybe him loosing track of what he's saying in the middle of saying it.  For DS#3 it appears to be stress related.  It happens mostly when he's really excited/agitated/afraid/happy and rarely when he's calm.  DS#3 has gotten a lot better as he's gotten older (it was BAD when he was 3), but DS#2 has stayed pretty much the same over time.

 

So, no advice or useful information, but maybe this is a little more common in children than most people realize?

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So, we went to our 2nd speech therapy session this morning, and I'm feeling concerned.  They showed my daughter a short video of kids who stuttered, then read her a little book about stuttering, and then continued to talk and play  the rest of the session, constantly referring to stuttering or "getting stuck".  My daughter looked thoroughly confused.  This was at the Teaching college I mentioned earlier.  I absolutely don't know who to call, but I'm going to look for someone who is more qualified.  

Edited by bcbbmom
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So, we went to our 2nd speech therapy session this morning, and I'm feeling concerned.  They showed my daughter a short video of kids who stuttered, then read her a little book about stuttering, and then continued to talk and play  the rest of the session, constantly referring to stuttering or "getting stuck".  My daughter looked thoroughly confused.  This was at the Teaching college I mentioned earlier.  I absolutely don't know who to call, but I'm going to look for someone who is more qualified.  

 

Does she understand that the sounds she makes are called stuttering?

 

I think it's standard to try to normalise the disfluency, as anxiety about it can make things worse.

 

FWIW, the speech therapist that we saw once we came to Scotland said that Hobbes was the least anxious stuttering child whom she had met.  She thought it might be down to his not having dealt with playground teasing (he had had  lots of social contact but it was mostly in Chinese, where he didn't tend to stutter, or in controlled situations).

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I'm not convinced that it is considered stuttering.  And from what I've read, the treatments are different than stuttering treatments.  She has zero anxiety about her disfluency, but I'm afraid they're going to give her anxiety by drawing attention to it (or to something that she doesn't even have).  

 

Does she understand that the sounds she makes are called stuttering?

 

I think it's standard to try to normalise the disfluency, as anxiety about it can make things worse.

 

FWIW, the speech therapist that we saw once we came to Scotland said that Hobbes was the least anxious stuttering child whom she had met.  She thought it might be down to his not having dealt with playground teasing (he had had  lots of social contact but it was mostly in Chinese, where he didn't tend to stutter, or in controlled situations).

 

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Fwiw, I totally agree with you about not using students for this. They are not bringing anything diagnostically to the table with experience to realize what they're doing isn't a good fit. Run, run, run.  Let them learn on someone else.

 

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