Jump to content

Menu

Reasons to Consider a Less Selective, Less Expensive College


dereksurfs
 Share

Recommended Posts

:001_wub:      

 

(A real life example of the nuances of finding a good fit!  A math program that has at least a minimally acceptable frequency of afternoon tea times... :laugh: )

 

Haha, but of course! Without adequate tea times what good is a math program, anyway? Who cares about sympatico 'tribes' and all that rubbish when they can't even get tea right? lol  :lol:

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My daughter is under the impression that most of the top programs have afternoon tea. Her department (Ga Tech) and every workshop she's attended has had daily afternoon tea. Michigan, frankly, seems a little skimpy at one/week. (In Michigan's defense, however, it is on her list of top Ph.D. programs because it is a stellar math department.)

 

And I would adamantly disagree with not being able to do research as an undergrad. My daughter did massive amounts of research as a dual-enrolled student in high school. She was published, collaborated with mathematicians at universities on three different continents and attended multiple workshops and conferences, almost entirely at her department's expense, as a DE student and as a freshman. She has never done an REU; everyone told her the math at your standard REU would be too easy for her. She's doing research with professors, Ph.D. students and post-docs in her department.

 

Anyway, I'm not really following this thread, but there is certainly math research being done by undergrads at some schools.

I'm so glad you posted bc I didn't think it was an accurate assessment (more likely depts' dismissive responses.) Lower level physics students are limited in what they can do just as much as lower level ______ students are. I find it hard to believe that math is any different. Professors who are willing to work with bright, motivated students know how to incorporate them into research projects at an appropriate level and stretch the students and develop their researching skills.

 

Btw, your dd's experience sounds awesome! It also sounds like why she was awarded such a presitigious math award. Kudos to her!

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My daughter is under the impression that most of the top programs have afternoon tea.  Her department (Ga Tech) and every workshop she's attended has had daily afternoon tea.  Michigan, frankly, seems a little skimpy at one/week.  (In Michigan's defense, however, it is on her list of top Ph.D. programs because it is a stellar math department.)

Well, I am hearing better and better things about Ga Tech. That was the 8th school on his list, but honestly we were concerned it would be too hot and full of mosquitoes. How is that for a good reason to throw out a school!!!  But ds has grown up in a coastal town - 68 degrees is a hot summer day and we always have a breeze. However, after reading your post this morning, I asked him about applying there, and he said that maybe he should given all the good vibes we hear.  His cousin *loved* it when he visited two weeks ago. 

 

But as for afternoon tea at top programs, we were told Nope by Harvard, MIT, Waterloo, and CMU.  As for Michigan, I actually thought the prof we met with said *daily* afternoon tea, but I thought I must have misheard.  That it would be too good to be true, but maybe not!  I was *very * impressed with Michigan, and ds was very impressed with the *food*.  Haha, another very important criteria for a university.  

 

And I would adamantly disagree with not being able to do research as an undergrad.  My daughter did massive amounts of research as a dual-enrolled student in high school.  She was published, collaborated with mathematicians at universities on three different continents and attended multiple workshops and conferences, almost entirely at her department's expense, as a DE student and as a freshman.  She has never done an REU; everyone told her the math at your standard REU would be too easy for her.  She's doing research with professors, Ph.D. students and post-docs in her department.

 

Anyway, I'm not really following this thread, but there is certainly math research being done by undergrads at some schools.

Outstanding news. We asked at *every* school we visited, and each one of them said Nope, except for the very exceptional -- which is definitely your daughter. My ds is assuming he is not *that* exceptional. 

Edited by lewelma
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Outstanding news. We asked at *every* school we visited, and each one of them said Nope, except for the very exceptional -- which is definitely your daughter. My ds is assuming he is not *that* exceptional. 

 

I would definitely not assume such a thing.  She is exceptional because of what the faculty there have done with her.  I mean, she's smart, yes, but lots of kids are smart.  As for stories about undergraduate math research, you might want to check out some of the bios of the past winners of the AWM's Schafer Prize; the winners have all done undergraduate research, and they have done it at a variety of schools.  Most are from Harvard, MIT, Chicago, and the like, which are the schools your son is targeting, but there is at least one from U of Utah (and she started at community college!), and obviously one is pending from Ga Tech (should be posted in February).  The bios go back 20+ years, and the most recent, at least, go into a lot of specifics about their undergraduate experience.  One of my favorite things generally are "how I got here" stories, and it is a real treasure trove.

 

I wouldn't argue with the weather being a factor in a college search, and Atlanta is just nasty during the summer, but if undergraduate research in math is your thing, you could do a lot worse.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would definitely not assume such a thing. She is exceptional because of what the faculty there have done with her.

I can't like this statement enough. Faculty mentors are worth their weight in gold. They take a true interest in their mentees and really help them grow. I cannot say enough good things about the mentors my ds has had. Edited by 8FillTheHeart
  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Derek,

 

We were discussing early college yesterday and my husband’s take on choosing a less selective and less expensive college is

 

1) our kids are so generalist that they are likely to stay for a long time in college either to do more majors and/or to get to PhD. So to stretch the dollar further, better to go to a less expensive college so we could afford to pay for more years. Also fresh graduates pay at his company is a flat rate regardless of where the person graduated from, so the less money spent on undergrad means the more money left over for later years.

 

2) real estate is also cheaper near less selective universities other than downtown San Jose which we aren’t keen on. Buying a home in somewhere like SLO for kids to stay for college and then keeping it as rental property until time to use it as a retirement home is affordable.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Derek,

 

We were discussing early college yesterday and my husband’s take on choosing a less selective and less expensive college is

 

1) our kids are so generalist that they are likely to stay for a long time in college either to do more majors and/or to get to PhD. So to stretch the dollar further, better to go to a less expensive college so we could afford to pay for more years. Also fresh graduates pay at his company is a flat rate regardless of where the person graduated from, so the less money spent on undergrad means the more money left over for later years.

 

2) real estate is also cheaper near less selective universities other than downtown San Jose which we aren’t keen on. Buying a home in somewhere like SLO for kids to stay for college and then keeping it as rental property until time to use it as a retirement home is affordable.

 

Arcadia, 

 

Those sound like some good reasons and a excellent plan. We love the SLO area and if we could afford to buy there we would do it! That's a very nice school as well.

 

Right now we are also considering moving to an area nearer nice, affordable public schools. WA is one option we're considering. Most of the public U's are not impacted like in CA inlcluding UW, WWU, WSU, etc... In addition, they have satellite campuses like UW-Bothell which is highly regarded for its computer science program among others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Arcadia, 

 

Those sound like some good reasons and a excellent plan. We love the SLO area and if we could afford to buy there we would do it! That's a very nice school as well.

 

Right now we are also considering moving to an area nearer nice, affordable public schools. WA is one option we're considering. Most of the public U's are not impacted like in CA inlcluding UW, WWU, WSU, etc... In addition, they have satellite campuses like UW-Bothell which is highly regarded for its computer science program among others.

 

My friend's son went to UW-Bothell for two years.  There is a CC on the campus as well and he took classes there for less and inter-mixed them with some UW classes.  He did quit college and didn't finish, but it was a nice place to go.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right now we are also considering moving to an area nearer nice, affordable public schools. WA is one option we're considering. Most of the public U's are not impacted like in CA inlcluding UW, WWU, WSU, etc... In addition, they have satellite campuses like UW-Bothell which is highly regarded for its computer science program among others.

Don't romanticize Washington's colleges.

 

UW has plenty of capacity-constrained majors - including computer science http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/academic-planning/majors-and-minors/list-of-undergraduate-majors/

 

WWU has had a policy for years that really raises the bar for kids who fail to get into CS at UW trying to transfer in and bump out kids who started in Bellingham. The CS program is starting to become more competitive for the kids who start as freshmen as well.

 

WSU is a party school to a very unhealthy degree. During the rececession, the previous president cut a lot of the arts and other creative outlets for the kids who don't party. So now, when class is over, there's basically just beer. While I don't think the "rolling river aquatic center" is a campus necessity, when you take the "college is for studying, not an entertainment center" ethos too far, you get something very unhealthy. Look just across the border at UIdaho, also a party/fratty school. But they generally have a fuller campus calendar of events, lots of ski trips organized by the rec center, etc. There is also an unhealthy right-wing political presence. The president of the campus Republicans was forced to resign after being filmed marching in Charlottesville. They reelected him president again this year.

 

You are correct that UW Bothell is an underappreciated gem, though. It is a commuter school with somewhat limited majors, but they seem to be doing great things there.

 

The community colleges -- gosh lots to say there. Like Cascadia/Bothell, there are four year programs available at just about any CC. The new WSU programs on the Everett campus are promising and the new WSU engineering center there looks gorgeous. Edmonds has a unique robotics program. My kid is at Bellevue, which offers nursing and other healthcare opportunities. Yet there are noticeable budget cuts happening. My daughter is finishing up this spring. She needs one more random elective class. When searching for classes in the 9:30 time slot, it was really hard to find something. They are moving tons of classes online to save money, and one online class was plenty for DD. My kids both had excellent overall experiences, but we are noticing things like advisors who leave and are not replaced making it harder to get appointments, cost cutting mergers between offices, etc. I'm not sure how much of it is blowback from a spending spree that the recently-fired president went on and how much is a sign of lasting decline.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't romanticize Washington's colleges.

 

UW has plenty of capacity-constrained majors - including computer science http://www.washington.edu/uaa/advising/academic-planning/majors-and-minors/list-of-undergraduate-majors/

 

WWU has had a policy for years that really raises the bar for kids who fail to get into CS at UW trying to transfer in and bump out kids who started in Bellingham. The CS program is starting to become more competitive for the kids who start as freshmen as well.

 

WSU is a party school to a very unhealthy degree. During the rececession, the previous president cut a lot of the arts and other creative outlets for the kids who don't party. So now, when class is over, there's basically just beer. While I don't think the "rolling river aquatic center" is a campus necessity, when you take the "college is for studying, not an entertainment center" ethos too far, you get something very unhealthy. Look just across the border at UIdaho, also a party/fratty school. But they generally have a fuller campus calendar of events, lots of ski trips organized by the rec center, etc. There is also an unhealthy right-wing political presence. The president of the campus Republicans was forced to resign after being filmed marching in Charlottesville. They reelected him president again this year.

 

You are correct that UW Bothell is an underappreciated gem, though. It is a commuter school with somewhat limited majors, but they seem to be doing great things there.

 

The community colleges -- gosh lots to say there. Like Cascadia/Bothell, there are four year programs available at just about any CC. The new WSU programs on the Everett campus are promising and the new WSU engineering center there looks gorgeous. Edmonds has a unique robotics program. My kid is at Bellevue, which offers nursing and other healthcare opportunities. Yet there are noticeable budget cuts happening. My daughter is finishing up this spring. She needs one more random elective class. When searching for classes in the 9:30 time slot, it was really hard to find something. They are moving tons of classes online to save money, and one online class was plenty for DD. My kids both had excellent overall experiences, but we are noticing things like advisors who leave and are not replaced making it harder to get appointments, cost cutting mergers between offices, etc. I'm not sure how much of it is blowback from a spending spree that the recently-fired president went on and how much is a sign of lasting decline.

 

Hi Janet,

 

Thanks for sharing your kids experiences in WA. Yes, I've heard about some of the problems and realize its not all roses. UW is 'highly' competitive and also more crowded than most schools in the PNW as the major flagship U. Its probably the closest thing to our impacted public CA flagships such as UCLA, UC Berkeley, UCSD, etc... That's also why we haven't been considering it at least at the main campus.  That said, there are still some good opportunities such as UW Bothell which is actually the fastest growing U in the state. I've heard great things about that program including working closely with companies in the area for internships and jobs later for grads. Lots of activity going on in Everett as well at the WSU branch.

 

I've been warned about WSU Pullman being a party school. Since we're looking to stay in Western WA we're not really looking there. We also haven't been looking at WWU for computer science. Rather, we're considering it for our younger girls who are interested in other areas such as environmental science. But they are still not sure what they'll major in. So time will tell.

 

The private U's also tend to be more generous when it comes to scholarships than those in CA. Lastly, Running Start seems to be a well recognized program for high school students wanting to obtain college credit. We are doing something similar in CA under dual enrollment. However, it's more organized and widely adopted in WA.

 

Its interesting to see what they are doing at some of the CCs like offering certain 4 year degrees. I hadn't heard about the robotics program at Edmonds. 

Edited by dereksurfs
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My daughter graduated from UW, and it was wonderful, but engineering and comp sci are definitely impacted there. If you are not a direct admit as a freshman, it's probably not wise to proceed.

 

I just heard a sad story about a potential nursing major at WSU, the daughter of a friend who we have known from childhood; great student. She spent two years at WSU as a pre-nursing major, and then was not admitted to the program for junior year. She had all the required classes, a 3.6 GPA, and no disciplinary issues or other red flags. She had to leave her school and return to our state. She is working this year and is applying to our local nursing program (which is also impacted, but she would have had a better chance had she started here freshman year.)

 

Selective school or no, everyone should investigate the likelihood of being able to graduate with their desired major, ideally in four years.

 

 

Edited by GoodGrief
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

UW has a new engineering admissions system starting with this year's admissions cycle. It should make it more predictable whether you will be able to get a major in the college of engineering.

 

That will be wonderful for their students!

 

As far as the original question in the thread, one reason our current college student chose the college that she did (highly selective private, and not her cheapest choice, but by far one of the more affordable ones) is that there was no question that she could get her major. Freshmen there don\t even commit to a major until the end of the first year. At her full ride option, it was going to be difficult or impossible to switch gears. She did, in fact, ultimately choose a different branch of engineering after a year of exploration at the school, so the choice was a wise one for her.

Edited by GoodGrief
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My daughter graduated from UW, and it was wonderful, but engineering and comp sci are definitely impacted there. If you are not a direct admit as a freshman, it's probably not wise to proceed.

 

Hi GoodGrief,

 

I'm glad to hear your daughter's experience at UW was wonderful. Would you mind sharing a bit more about what she liked and what made it wonderful? Did she enter as a freshman from out of state? If out of state, why did she choose it over other local options?

 

I'm assuming your daughter went to the main Seattle campus. At least in the past, I've heard students had to get accepted twice for engineering, once to the main school and second to the school of engineering. That's actually fairly common here in CA as well. But not knowing acceptance to the later would be difficult indeed. It sounds like they are changing that part based on Janet's post. The thing that's different about UW is that they have satellites which are less impacted such as UW Bothell and UW Tacoma. In addition, the students have a smaller campus with better student/teacher ratios yet still receive a quality UW education.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi GoodGrief,

 

I'm glad to hear your daughter's experience at UW was wonderful. Would you mind sharing a bit more about what she liked and what made it wonderful? Did she enter as a freshman from out of state? If out of state, why did she choose it over other local options?

 

I'm assuming your daughter went to the main Seattle campus. At least in the past, I've heard students had to get accepted twice for engineering, once to the main school and second to the school of engineering. That's actually fairly common here in CA as well. But not knowing acceptance to the later would be difficult indeed. It sounds like they are changing that part based on Janet's post. The thing that's different about UW is that they have satellites which are less impacted such as UW Bothell and UW Tacoma. In addition, the students have a smaller campus with better student/teacher ratios yet still receive a quality UW education.

 

I was just reading about the new UW engineering admissions policy after JanetC's comment. It really sounds great! It's tough to get into UW as an engineering major, but for those who get in, they have a guaranteed engineering spot and get their freshman year to explore all the engineering options before picking a track. They have not solved their overall issue with capacity, but are making the best of resources they have.

 

My daughter really enjoyed the atmosphere at UW Seattle; the urban campus, the ease of public transportation. There were plenty of places to find community. Her instructors were excellent. UW was very easy to work with when she became ill, as far as processing withdrawals, and they did not pull her scholarship when she was struggling. It's a beautiful campus, and for those inclined, there's the whole big school sports thing available too.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

ETA: Our son really enjoys math. Though he hasn't competed or done anything collaboratively yet with peers beyond the chats in his online class. He may eventually double major in math and CS or Physics. So I truly am interested in the collaborative nature of programs you've looked into and what you like about them.

 

Have you looked into Santa Barbara's college of creative studies? They have a Computer Science major, as well as Math and Physics -- they have priority enrollment in classes and are supposed to have automatic research opportunities.  I don't know about the quality of those majors, though I have heard I don't know where that that computer major is very good. We looked at it for Writing and Literature for my daughter and decided against it as it didn't seem to quite have it all together for that particular major -- which is good because my dd is now majoring in Poli Sci and History. 

 

We were very worried about impacted majors for my dd at UCLA but so far it hasn't been a problem. Yes, large lectures, but all classes taught by full profs and she says her TA's are outstanding -- she is very impressed by them. Other majors might have a different experience as far as difficulty with enrollment.  She has friends at UCSD and UCSC. I don't know much about their experience other than the one at UCSD is extremely happy and is getting the classes she needs so far (engineering) and the one at UCSC is struggling socially -- but that is mainly the effect of one going in with friends she already knew vs. going there knowing no one. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a jumble of thoughts from trying to catch up on this thread...

 

A big yes to UCSB's College of Creative Studies. Great program from all that I've heard and my kid almost ended up there. I believe kids can double major with two CCS majors -- good to have a look and tour if you can. The head of the math department was incredibly kind when A applied and was admitted. She reached out many times to answer questions and invite A to visit her. We were debating between that and UC Berkeley but Berkeley was of course much more doable as we live much closer and would not have to move to yet another expensive area (SB's rents exceed or equal the Bay Area's and it would have been nuts to let go of the low mortgage we pay for a house we own! Not to mention we were choosing a great math dept anyway).

 

Our experience (or rather my kiddo's) with our somewhat selective (17% acceptance rate), in-state and less expensive college:

  • So glad to be able to take advantage of an in-state school like UC Berkeley -- it's a huge huge school but the math department is not as large and not as impacted as EECS or Economics or Chemistry.
  • A takes only honors core upper division major requirement classes -- these rarely go over 30 students per class...it's been easy to be added even on a waitlist by just appearing at every class. However, no prof has taken attendance...not in math or in the humanities. A has not taken EECS classes yet so cannot be sure if they do take attendance in those departments. An UG could potentially sit in on those classes for interest. Other upper div classes A is taking/taken are not honors but have only about 20-35 students a class.
  • A has completely bypassed the need to take those 400-600-strong lower division and general ed classes that Berkeley is famous for. SO glad A covered general eds via community college. Our CC was not excellent for math but was top-notch for the humanities. Just fabulous that A could jump directly over all of those requirements at a low cost and at a pace A was comfortable with.
  • Big difference between honors and regular sections. A is now a grader (an opportunity open to students who have already taken the class) for a regular section upper division math class and is stunned by the difference between honors classmates' work and these regular section students' work -- all are math majors, many pure math like A, but still...it really shows when you've had practice with math research or at least with writing proofs and I keep reminding A that A's background is very different. A is learning to be patient.
  • I pay $3500+ a semester, split 50% with A's dad (my ex) for a total of $7000+ a semester. A did not qualify for any aid as we have to report dad's income in finaid applications. Again, glad to be in-state!
  • Commuting from home costs about $250-ish a month for train and food and little snacks/stationery etc. (A has classes every single day so the kid eats on campus not to mention it costs about the same for me to pack food for A from home).
  • From March, A will receive about $300 a month as a grader which will cover train tickets and food cost, yay!
  • Fingers crossed that A will be able to find a UGSI (undergrad student instructor/TA) position from fall onwards which will help significantly towards tuition (pays about $1000/month, possibly more).
  • A has a grad student mentor now for the math department's directed reading program, which will hopefully lead to math research in that area in the very near future. DRP is open to all interested students and lots of students are admitted as long as they answer the application carefully and are specific about the kind of text/research they want to work on. A's research will probably center on algebraic topology.
  • None of A's instructors were grad students. We were a little concerned after hearing from someone that UC employs grad students to teach classes. It might still be true in some UCs, not too sure, but so far in Berkeley Math, they are all profs/assoc. profs.
  • Lots of research available as far as A knows...A's just having too much fun right now in input mode (vs output mode) and specifically wanted a lighter freshman year (mainly to deal with health issues).
  • The culture is actually not extremely competitive that A can see. There's lots of collaboration. Someone asked how to know what a fit is like. I think at this age/stage, students create "the fit". Fit is just SO subjective that I don't think you can tell by hanging out at a campus for a few hours during a tour. In fact, A has taken math circle at Berkeley for years and it's still not been completely evident what culture/fit was till A went after opportunities. Yes, there are kindred spirits but they now know A's age so it's been a little uncomfy for A but I think those kids are getting over it. A is long past caring what anyone thinks about A's age.
  • I think A's age though is making a difference in some other ways, one of which is that A cannot truly experience the college experience of collaboration/discussion by having to come home instead of living in dorms and meeting classmates at night/study hall/library etc. For now, A will commute from home due to reasons we cannot avoid.
  • Lots of pizza! A loves pizza and I can't have pizza anymore (unless gluten free) so that's helpful. :) Every math meet (there's one at least 2x a week) has pizza. Profs appear when invited. A loves these in general.
  • Going to UCB knowing no one has been a little hard...but it's getting better. A's classmates now text A for help and vice versa...that is a development I like watching. Otherwise, the main draw is the professors and A's had some pretty cool ones already just 2 semesters in.
  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

UCSB's College of Creative Studies sounds wonderful, but they don’t assign letter grades. I know many consider this a plus, but what if my kid wants to pursue a master of a PhD program? My friend (a college prof) told me this factor could work against the student in graduate school admissions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

UCSB's College of Creative Studies sounds wonderful, but they don’t assign letter grades. I know many consider this a plus, but what if my kid wants to pursue a master of a PhD program? My friend (a college prof) told me this factor could work against the student in graduate school admissions.

According to this article, 75% of CCS alumni go on to grad school, so I don't think it hurts as long as the student has good test scores and really strong recommendations. My undergrad school didn't give grades either, and I was accepted to every grad school I applied to, including a couple of top 10 schools. I think top test scores and really strong recommendations, plus a transcript with interesting and unusual courses, compensated for the lack of grades, and I would expect that a graduate of CCS would have similar qualifications.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to this article, 75% of CCS alumni go on to grad school, so I don't think it hurts as long as the student has good test scores and really strong recommendations. My undergrad school didn't give grades either, and I was accepted to every grad school I applied to, including a couple of top 10 schools. I think top test scores and really strong recommendations, plus a transcript with interesting and unusual courses, compensated for the lack of grades, and I would expect that a graduate of CCS would have similar qualifications.

Would you assume that for med school as well? Or is that a different animal altogether?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Would you assume that for med school as well? Or is that a different animal altogether?

 

I know of at least two people in my graduating class who got into med school without grades, but I also know that part of the push to start giving grades there (which they do now) specifically came from students who were concerned about med school, so it may be more of a factor for med students than for general grad students. But I don't really know anything about med school admissions — of the two MDs I'm friends with, one did undergrad & med school at the same (not very selective) university, and the other had a history degree, worked and traveled the world for a while, and then applied to med school at the age of 30.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

UCSB's College of Creative Studies sounds wonderful, but they don’t assign letter grades. I know many consider this a plus, but what if my kid wants to pursue a master of a PhD program? My friend (a college prof) told me this factor could work against the student in graduate school admissions.

When we visited UCSB the advisor said many students double major in the College of Arts and Sciences, and all the gen eds and any other coursework is graded. So the only PF grades are in the CCS.

 

My dd just decided she is not the type to stay on top of her game without grades. She performs better under stress. As I will remind her this weekend since she told me she has three midterms and a paper all on next Monday and Tuesday!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always hear people talk about campus culture and if a student fits in into that. How would one even go about researching such a thing?

Frankly I find researching a "fit" so hard. It's one think to find a school with academic stats that match your own, but beyond that it seems to me a shot in the dark.

 

I have heard UCs are impacted. What does that really mean for a student?

 

I agree on the "fit" issue. You can't research that. Does it come down to your experience on the campus visit? That's not enough to make a decision.

 

As for UCs, they are impacted. It is really hard to get actual data about the consequences, however. I tried to find the average 4-year graduation rate for UCLA, and it was impossible. The closest I could get is that 90% of students graduate within 6 years.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree on the "fit" issue. You can't research that. Does it come down to your experience on the campus visit? That's not enough to make a decision.

 

As for UCs, they are impacted. It is really hard to get actual data about the consequences, however. I tried to find the average 4-year graduation rate for UCLA, and it was impossible. The closest I could get is that 90% of students graduate within 6 years.

 

this is probably the 6 year rate - which I think is used as a "standard"

 

https://www.niche.com/colleges/university-of-california---los-angeles/after-college/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is really hard to get actual data about the consequences, however. I tried to find the average 4-year graduation rate for UCLA, and it was impossible. The closest I could get is that 90% of students graduate within 6 years.

 

UCLA 4 year graduation rate is 78.7% for the cohort who entered in 2013. Link below quote has data for cohort entering in 2000 to 2013.

 

“The average time to degree was 11.8 registered quarters (excludes time off) for freshman entrants who graduated in 2016-17; students who entered as transfers and graduated in 2016-17 registered for an average of 6.5 academic quarters. Of these transfers, 72% registered for 6 or fewer quarters.†http://www.apb.ucla.edu/campus-statistics/graduation-ttd

Edited by Arcadia
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree on the "fit" issue. You can't research that. Does it come down to your experience on the campus visit? That's not enough to make a decision.

 

As for UCs, they are impacted. It is really hard to get actual data about the consequences, however. I tried to find the average 4-year graduation rate for UCLA, and it was impossible. The closest I could get is that 90% of students graduate within 6 years.

 

 

My dd was told she'd have no problem graduating on time ... granted she's a poli sci major which while impacted, is not a super involved major.  Now she's wanting to double major which means she might take all four years rather than the three she had planned, but she really wouldn't have had trouble even graduating in three years. So far she's had no problems getting classes she needs -- albeit a stats class at 8 am and maybe her second chose for a gen ed requirement. But so far no worries. 

 

Kids that change majors or have pre-req's might impact the graduation rate, but she was told at the orientation that at most people take one extra quarter -- so graduate with 13 quarters instead of 12.

 

For fit, especially since my dd was applying far and wide, we spent a lot of time on college confidential and niche just to pick up trends.  Then we went and visited and that really did make a huge impact. Our dd was really interested in a city school and looked at NYU and Emerson in Boston, and we also looked at non city schools like William and Mary and Brandeis. We realized Emerson was basically a tiny campus of buildings with very slow elevators, making it a no-go for us as parents.  For a time she was dead set on William and Mary but when we visited it felt so large and empty to her, (large campus with only 6000 students) and she realized she wanted something more bustling.  We also visited on a normal late fall day and realized what a difference it can make on one's outlook if the entire campus feels windy and cold and you have to walk half a mile to class! That's a big adjustment! So that shaped her to appreciating a bustling student population of 30,000 students crammed into a campus  less that half the size of William and Mary, but warm enough to be outside all year long. 

 

Our next kids will probably focus less on fit since its going to be state schools for them. It will be more on what's available for their major. They are also less independent so I don't necessarily see them as wanting to go out of state. By this age my oldest was already researching early college boarding schools, she was so desperate to be independent! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Very, very proud momma brag alert, so be forewarned!! :)

 

I wanted to add this post here since our ds followed this path. His UG school is not ranked in the top 100. He was blessed with multiple stacking scholarships and was in essence paid to go to school. He pursued opportunities and used his UG experience to its absolute fullest.

 

His experience fits Bruni's and Gladwell's theories :) bc he has been accepted to some of the top theoretical physics programs in the country (including a top 5 and top 15 (with 1/4 time responsibilities)). His grad admissions process was so positive that early on he turned down a top 40 school's elite fellowship so they could offer it to someone else.

 

So for all of those families that are concerned their kids' future options will be limited if they can't afford the price tag of elite schools, encourage your students to bloom where they are planted and seize the opportunities on their campus.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
  • Like 31
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...