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Approach for Finding Best Fit for College


OnMyOwn
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So, now that I've just completed the application process with my son, I'd like to get a head start on it with my dd. I think we will have some nice choices for ds, but I found myself scrambling at the last minute thinking he should have a few more options than he initially had.

 

Is there a good book out there on college selection? Anyone have a great method for narrowing down the choices? Good sites for my dd to read?

 

I've read the Colleges That Change Lives book, but I'm thinking that must be getting pretty dated.

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I have Fiske, Princeton Review, and the Hidden Ivies.  I think only dh and myself have cracked them open so far...

Also use online search tools (e.g. http://www.collegeview.com/collegesearch/index.jsp) for more that you may not have thought of.  My goal is to point out a long list of options that my child (and dh) will then eliminate choices from.  I am finding that there are fit aspects I can only guess at, that will need a more personal determination from my child.

Edited by wapiti
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What seems to work for us is to visit a couple of very different colleges, sit in classes, eat in the dining hall, walk the campus, and poke around the surrounding neighborhood. After that, figure out what your student likes and dislikes and then repeat based on the new criteria. Once you have a keeper, figure out what schools the keeper considers to be their peer schools and check them out first online and in person if possible. It is not necessary to see all of these schools, that can wait until after the student is accepted if the school doesn’t place a high priority on visits.

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Both my boys had strong feelings about the kinds of locations: one wanted a small town feel, the other wanted a big happening city; neither wanted an out-of-town campus in the middle of nowhere.

 

That narrowed it down and then we worked through the rankings for the undergraduate courses where they were a likely match in the right kinds of locations.

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I have Fiske, Princeton Review, and the Hidden Ivies.  I think only dh and myself have cracked them open so far...

 

 

I like the Fiske book many libraries carry it. Unfortunately it only covers only a fairly small amount of colleges.

 

We also used College Niche:

https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/best-colleges/

 

I tried out:

http://www.collegeview.com/index.jsp

Of interest: if your SAT/grades are considerably above the overall college average it will lower the match score.

IMHO most large Unis use your intended major to help decide admission and merit aid.

It does well if a particular sport is important to your student (not our case).

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Some self surveys to help figure out what you are looking for before you get overwhelmed by choices -- By Stephen Antonoff

 

Qualities that make a school right for you -- if you do no other survey, do this one! http://www.schoolbuff.com/qualities.asp

 

Self-survey and values quizzes

http://schoolbuff.com/self-survey.asp -- more focused on the student's interests than on what schools might have

http://schoolbuff.com/values-assessment.asp -- a follow-up to the self survey above, use the results of that one to rank your values

 

 

And some places on the web to look for starter lists of colleges:

 

College Transitions Dataverse

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/

 

Building a College List Podcast by Ethan Sawyer

https://www.collegeessayguy.com/blog/how-to-create-a-great-college-list

Be sure to download the PDF too!

 

Mark Moody's Quick and Dirty College List - particularly useful if you don't have a major yet and just want to match by test scores

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/527cc9ffe4b06105448def23/t/5956c079f7e0aba4bff0bfc7/1498857597321/MMQDCLB+062917.pdf

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I think the most important place to start is knowing the student.  It really helps if you have some idea of what you are looking for.  Does the student want to be a certain distance from home?  to be in a metropolitan area? to be at a large school?  to be involved in Greek life? to major in an area that is only offered at a few schools?  If a student doesn't have some idea to what he is looking for, I think it is a good idea to visit several different types of campuses (even if they aren't possibilities of where the student will end up) to start getting a feel for what he does and doesn't like.  

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This looks like a lot of great information. Thanks so much!

 

I think I'm going to start by going through the first survey Janet posted with my kids to get a better idea of what is important to each of them. Then, I will move on to the other resources you have all listed to find schools that seem to fit. This will keep me busy now that we are done with ds' apps.

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I'm finding it really difficult to come up with a list of possible colleges to look into because dd doesn't have any idea what she wants to major in other than listing classes she's liked taking so far. I've decided on a two prong approach:

1) college visits (a large one, a smaller one, small town, small city, etc.) - She needs to get a feel for a few campuses (campi?) because she doesn't know yet what atmosphere she'll like.

2) reverse-engineering from a scholarship standpoint. Seeing if there are any full tuition and/or full tuition+ scholarships that DD is automatically eligible for or where she'd be competitive. If so, put them on the list of possibilities (as long as they have enough Spanish classes for her).

 

We'll see how this works.  :hat:

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I'm finding it really difficult to come up with a list of possible colleges to look into because dd doesn't have any idea what she wants to major in other than listing classes she's liked taking so far. I've decided on a two prong approach:

1) college visits (a large one, a smaller one, small town, small city, etc.) - She needs to get a feel for a few campuses (campi?) because she doesn't know yet what atmosphere she'll like.

2) reverse-engineering from a scholarship standpoint. Seeing if there are any full tuition and/or full tuition+ scholarships that DD is automatically eligible for or where she'd be competitive. If so, put them on the list of possibilities (as long as they have enough Spanish classes for her).

 

We'll see how this works. :hat:

Both of my daughters are undecided. As we looked at schools for the oldest, we learned that some welcome undecided students and some force them to make some type of decision. As the oldest was firm about wanting to explore more options at a college level, she selected a school where exploration was welcome even encouraged. All in all, we found that small liberal arts colleges most accommodating with this approach. For this reason, the proverbial fit was even more important in my daughter’s decision making process as it was hard to evaluate majors when one has not been decided. I did have her make sure that each school had viable majors for her.

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I'm finding it really difficult to come up with a list of possible colleges to look into because dd doesn't have any idea what she wants to major in other than listing classes she's liked taking so far. I've decided on a two prong approach:

1) college visits (a large one, a smaller one, small town, small city, etc.) - She needs to get a feel for a few campuses (campi?) because she doesn't know yet what atmosphere she'll like.

2) reverse-engineering from a scholarship standpoint. Seeing if there are any full tuition and/or full tuition+ scholarships that DD is automatically eligible for or where she'd be competitive. If so, put them on the list of possibilities (as long as they have enough Spanish classes for her).

 

We'll see how this works.  :hat:

We are in the same position.  Dd has many strengths and passions, but no major or career really appeals to her at this point.  

 

Love your #1 idea for college visits.  We will keep that in mind for when we start.  This is different for me since my sons knew exactly what they wanted to do.  When dd spoke with a few admissions officers at college fairs, they seemed very welcoming to an undecided major.  

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We really liked the colleges that change lives list but we used the website, they update the list regularly as some colleges no longer meet their criteria. For example Grinnell in Iowa became too selective. 

 

We tried other search engines and found crossover with the CTCL list so we knew we had found good possibilities. 

 

 

We also have visited different size colleges even if I knew he wouldn't want to go there, just to see how they vary. He sits in on classes as well at the colleges he is interested in, to see if he likes the classroom feel. 

Edited by PinkyandtheBrains.
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We are going through all of that with 2nd son.

 

We finally figured it out for my oldest.  He toured 2 schools.  Yup, 2.  He was done.  He only applied to one because that was where he wanted to go.  He has Aspergers and once a decision is made, it is made.  End of story.

 

He starts in January after being at CC for close to 2 years.

 

Second son we are having more difficulty with as he has no clue what he wants to do.

 

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My kid is interested in a common major, so basically we will look for the best academic program he can get into according to his stats. There is no way we can be flying around the country to check out campuses. It will have to be a half blind choice.

I can see the advantages of visiting though if you can afford.

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My kid is interested in a common major, so basically we will look for the best academic program he can get into according to his stats. There is no way we can be flying around the country to check out campuses. It will have to be a half blind choice.

I can see the advantages of visiting though if you can afford.

Lots of "virtual tours" these days so not as a good as IRL but still can give you a feel for the campus.

Yes I agree if we couldn't drive there then no visit.

 

We did visit 2 colleges near Albany NY when we were on summer vacation visiting family.  DS wasn't interested.

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Until we visited a wide variety of schools in different settings, oldest son's ideas of what kind of school he wanted to attend were nothing close to what he actually wanted.  He thought he wanted U-T Austin.  Hated the feel of the campus.  He liked the setting of King's College in PA much better (still more of an "urban" campus, but small town vs. HUGE city).  His favorite non-swim school is Alabama.  (Knowing my son, *I* wasn't surprised.  When DH initially heard DS wanted to go to U-T Austin, he freaked -- I told him not to worry).  Most of the schools seeking DS out are liberal arts schools with swim programs.  BUT, they don't have his major.

 

DD knows herself much better.  It is pretty easy to predict which schools she would like from their profile/size/photos.  Picking her school will be in many ways easier -- but made more difficult because she's in the loop for much heavier recruitment for swimming -- and she's a highly qualified math major (she has two university math department heads she's in contact with on a fairly regular basis).  The availability of German, the math department's take on her MIT OCW-Scholar's courses, and final financial picture (assuming she doesn't detest the swim coach) will make the final decision.   She wants a SMALLer school (or at least a school that doesn't feel huge -- Liberty is the only big school she's applying for, but because of how the campus has grown up, it doesn't feel huge like UA or UT for example).   Her current picks include: USNA, Gardner-Webb, William and Mary, Liberty, MIT, and Messiah -- I'm actually quite nervous about her Junior year when her box starts exploding...I kind of like her narrow range of schools, and will hate it when the coaches start calling!!  It's been bad enough with our oldest -- but our saving grace in keeping him focused was 80% of the schools calling didn't have a mech engineering program, and could only offer a Physics or Math major, with a path to grad school in engineering -- and he absolutely did not want that).

 

My younger DS loved every school we ate at... that is not a joke.  He most likely won't have swimming to worry about, but his interests and talents are very broad (everything from pre-med to graphic design and engineering.  I need to get him involved in debate, though.  He's my debater.  

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My current college student learned a lot about what she did and didn't want in a campus by visiting several. They didn't even have to be campuses she was even considering. Visiting nearby schools can help them think through different campus set ups.

 

For example, Dd never considered VCU but she learned from their campus that she hated the city runs through it, non-defined, city sprawl campus. She visited a tiny campus, Sewanee, and said she felt claustrophobic. It was interesting bc before that she thought she wanted a small campus. We drove all the way to UOk and she felt off kilter there. Why? Silly reasons. She felt landlocked and couldn't imagine living somewhere for 4 yrs that didn't have trees. (I think there was 1 tree. For a girl who has lived in a house in the woods on the side of a mountain, that southwest region just really had a different feel.) She went to camp at BYU and knew there was no way she could live 4 yrs at the periphery of the dominant culture. (And she didn't see this as just BYU's religious culture. She translated her experience there to campuses with dominant cultures that were pretty much the opposite of her core.)

 

One factor she hadn't considered important but ended up being important to her is distance from home. She realized she doesn't want to feel trapped by the inability to come home. So weekend driveable became a key value.

 

Fwiw, our 10th grader will only talk about living at home and commuting. Proximity to home is the only filter she will consider. We'll see how long she sticks to that POV.

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So many factors:

 

Location

Cost

Ranking or non-ranking

size of school 

Religious/Secular

Type of program and how that particular school runs that particular program

 

ETA:  I see I answered this question twice!  HAHA!  Editing to delete repeat info.

Edited by DawnM
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OnMyOwn, I know you've just been through this, but for the sake of throwing out thoughts for others reading this...

 

  • Make sure you are very transparent about finances with your student. This is a great way to eliminate colleges. If you are counting on merit and a school doesn't even offer merit (which many don't), get those schools off the table. Do NOT even visit. Repeat. Do NOT even visit.  :lol:
  • Summer Programs. This was a nice way for dd to feel connected to a school. She didn't love any school that wasn't a super reach, so this was a great way for her to see herself somewhere.
  • College Confidential is a good place to get first-hand knowledge about school cultures. Just don't get sucked in!
  • Don't brush off talking to students or alumni. The schools would be happy to connect you with them. If you are on campus, go out of your way to ask current students questions about their school.
Edited by lisabees
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We really liked the colleges that change lives list but we used the website, they update the list regularly as some colleges no longer meet their criteria. For example Grinnell in Iowa became too selective. 

 

We tried other search engines and found crossover with the CTCL list so we knew we had found good possibilities. 

 

 

We also have visited different size colleges even if I knew he wouldn't want to go there, just to see how they vary. He sits in on classes as well at the colleges he is interested in, to see if he likes the classroom feel. 

 

CTCL is a perfect start for someone looking into liberal arts colleges. DD's list is filled almost entirely of CTCL schools.  And not intentionally! Even within their list of schools, there is much variety in cultural and academic fit. And then do what Pinky recommends - do a crossover search.

Edited by lisabees
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We drove all the way to UOk and she felt off kilter there. Why? Silly reasons. She felt landlocked and couldn't imagine living somewhere for 4 yrs that didn't have trees. (I think there was 1 tree. 

 

There is a point where you are glad to have reasons to eliminate! There are so many fabulous schools.

 

Oldest ds eliminated Lafayette because cars were parallel parked all throughout campus.

 

And, as he recently reminded me, the students' heads were looking down - to him, no one looked happy or engaged or welcoming.

 

I would also recommend starting with local school visits to get a feel for campuses. Lafayette was local, so it wasn't a waste of time or money. But, we live in an area where there are some great schools.

Edited by lisabees
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I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but I would research the Greek culture at a college you are considering for your child.  Not only whether there is one, but what are the odds of being accepted if a student rushes.  I had a heartbreaking conversation with a friend over Thanksgiving.  Her nephew rushed and did not get selected by any of the fraternities.  The rejections have caused him to question his self worth and his mom is very worried about his mental health.  He also is having a very hard time finding activities and groups to join that don't revolve around the Greek culture. 

 

 

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I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but I would research the Greek culture at a college you are considering for your child. Not only whether there is one, but what are the odds of being accepted if a student rushes. I had a heartbreaking conversation with a friend over Thanksgiving. Her nephew rushed and did not get selected by any of the fraternities. The rejections have caused him to question his self worth and his mom is very worried about his mental health. He also is having a very hard time finding activities and groups to join that don't revolve around the Greek culture.

I can imagine wanting to be part of Greek life and being rejected by it would be devastating on a heavy Greek life campus.

 

But, for kids not interested in Greek life, I would not dismiss a college with a heavy Greek presence just bc there is a strong Greek culture. Bama and USC are both Greek heavy campuses. Neither of my kids is even the slightest bit interested in Greek life. Neither are drinkers or partiers (if that partying culture is what kids want, I can equally imagine feeling like an outsider if not Greek even if they didn't attempt to pledge. Greek life is expensive, so some kids may feel like an outsider simply bc they can't afford to pledge but want to.)

 

But, my kids have had no problems finding large peer groups outside of Greek life. They have lots of friends who spend time playing board games, going swing dancing, cooking meals and watching movies, going to sporting events, etc.

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I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but I would research the Greek culture at a college you are considering for your child.  Not only whether there is one, but what are the odds of being accepted if a student rushes.  I had a heartbreaking conversation with a friend over Thanksgiving.  Her nephew rushed and did not get selected by any of the fraternities.  The rejections have caused him to question his self worth and his mom is very worried about his mental health.  He also is having a very hard time finding activities and groups to join that don't revolve around the Greek culture. 

 

 

I can imagine wanting to be part of Greek life and being rejected by it would be devastating on a heavy Greek life campus.

 

But, for kids not interested in Greek life, I would not dismiss a college with a heavy Greek presence just bc there is a strong Greek culture. Bama and USC are both Greek heavy campuses. Neither of my kids is even the slightest bit interested in Greek life. Neither are drinkers or partiers (if that partying culture is what kids want, I can equally imagine feeling like an outsider if not Greek even if they didn't attempt to pledge. Greek life is expensive, so some kids may feel like an outsider simply bc they can't afford to pledge but want to.)

 

But, my kids have had no problems finding large peer groups outside of Greek life. They have lots of friends who spend time playing board games, going swing dancing, cooking meals and watching movies, going to sporting events, etc.

 

I think it depends on the student's personality, too. If they are not the type to seek out those outside peer groups AND the school's Greek life has a dominant culture, the school would be worth eliminating (to me).

 

If Greek life is a negative to some kids (as it was to three of mine), seek out schools where it doesn't dominate campus life. You might have to do some researching to find this out, but it can be well worth it.

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I think it depends on the student's personality, too. If they are not the type to seek out those outside peer groups AND the school's Greek life has a dominant culture, the school would be worth eliminating (to me).

 

If Greek life is a negative to some kids (as it was to three of mine), seek out schools where it doesn't dominate campus life. You might have to do some researching to find this out, but it can be well worth it.

They didn't have to seek out those outside groups. They are everywhere. Even on heavy Greek campuses like Bama, typically only 1/3 of students are Greek. 2/3 aren't. (Greek makes a huge presence, but by the numbers they are not the dominant population. ) They didn't even have to seek out non-partiers. Doing the things they normally do, like going to daily Mass or Adoration, honors activities, on-campus speaker events, etc, automatically brought them in contact with peers with similar values and interests,

 

Interestingly, Dd's freshman hall turns out to be predominantly Catholic. She goes to Mass all the time. She started going by herself. She started inviting other kids. She started off with about 5 kids who went with her, but she told me that they have growing in number and have recently been joined by a group of kids that have never been regular Mass attenders. :) So now they have a large group of kids from her dorm who are all going to church together. Not all of them are kids who have much else in common with Dd, but kids can belong to all sorts of groups with kids with diverse interests and other main activities.

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I think it depends on the student's personality, too. If they are not the type to seek out those outside peer groups AND the school's Greek life has a dominant culture, the school would be worth eliminating (to me).

 

If Greek life is a negative to some kids (as it was to three of mine), seek out schools where it doesn't dominate campus life. You might have to do some researching to find this out, but it can be well worth it.

 

I agree.  I think the fact that he wanted to be part of the Greek culture, but was not accepted is the main issue in this student's case.  I don't know if there is any way to research ahead of time what the acceptance rate is for each frat/sorority on a particular campus, but that is something I would try to look into if I had a child that really wanted to be involved in Greek life.

 

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...I think the fact that he wanted to be part of the Greek culture, but was not accepted is the main issue in this student's case. I don't know if there is any way to research ahead of time what the acceptance rate is for each frat/sorority on a particular campus, but that is something I would try to look into if I had a child that really wanted to be involved in Greek life.

 

I agree with this completely.

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8, I love your dd's story! A close relative - who lives in Alabama - is very hesitant to consider that school because of its party reputation. Her kids are ones who attend Mass regularly, so I'd love to hear about Bama in that sense.

Bama Catholic is very active. https://bamacatholic.org Until the middle of this semester, ds was one of the student leaders. He was a Search retreat leader, helped organize the freshman retreat, taught Catholicism 101, etc. If she wants to contact him over Christmas break, I'm sure he would be happy to answer any questions. (I know he is in the thick of finishing grad school applications and getting ready for finals right now, but in a few weeks he should have time.) If you pm me, I can give you his email address if she wants it.

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There is a point where you are glad to have reasons to eliminate! There are so many fabulous schools.

 

Oldest ds eliminated Lafayette because cars were parallel parked all throughout campus.

 

And, as he recently reminded me, the students' heads were looking down - to him, no one looked happy or engaged or welcoming.

 

I would also recommend starting with local school visits to get a feel for campuses. Lafayette was local, so it wasn't a waste of time or money. But, we live in an area where there are some great schools.

or they were all introverts!

 

at work (Engineering) we have a saying, an extrovert looks at your shoes while talking and the introvert looks at his/her own shoes  :lol:

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Ok, I'll jump in... Dd goes to Mass everday. I would like her to have the option to continue that with a group of likeminded kids whether she goes to a secular or Catholic college. She wants diversity but also an active Catholic community.

 

The school that impressed her the most was the one where she had tour guides and hosts who were not Catholic or any other variety of Christian who started to go to daily Mass at college and eventually converted due in part to the openhearted and welcoming kids who they met who went to daily Mass. They talked about how they were shown respect despite their differences when they first visited and then started attending the college. That part appealed very much to my dd.

 

I think there are quite a few schools that would offer what dd wants but she does not want large or urban and she had good states but not super high.

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Tiramisu, Benedictine College sounds like it might be a good fit for your DD. They have daily mass available several times a day. Many non-Catholics convert due to the environment. It is a good fit for many good but not tip top students. Atchison is a small town but only about an hour from Kansas City. My niece is currently attending and is quite happy there.

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There is no way we can be flying around the country to check out campuses. It will have to be a half blind choice.

I can see the advantages of visiting though if you can afford.

We are checking out campus early because it is my husband’s turn to do campus recruitment and interviews. Those who did campus interviews the last few years are tired of it so he and a few of his colleagues are doing the current rounds. His colleagues have high school age kids so they don’t mind the travelling either to check out campuses. Another advantage is that the hotels we stayed in are either on campus or very close by since interviews start at 8am.

 

Some of the colleges we visited are because my husband is curious about those colleges as our kids don’t have a list yet. (ETA: my husband had fun comparing Caltech’s buildings architecture to Stanford’s)

 

My kids kind of remember which campuses have Panda Express in their food courts. It’s their favorite comfort food in the fast food/food court category.

 

ETA:

We actually like a mix of old and new architecture versus all new. All old is fine as my kids like the wide ornate covered walkways.

Edited by Arcadia
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at work (Engineering) we have a saying, an extrovert looks at your shoes while talking and the introvert looks at his/her own shoes :lol:

Not just the shoes, also the cellphone, headset, cubicle table decor, bag, coat ... :lol:

 

ETA:

My introvert kids would look at everything too. They are inquisitive introverts.

Edited by Arcadia
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Tiramisu, Benedictine College sounds like it might be a good fit for your DD. They have daily mass available several times a day. Many non-Catholics convert due to the environment. It is a good fit for many good but not tip top students. Atchison is a small town but only about an hour from Kansas City. My niece is currently attending and is quite happy there.

Thank you! My friend's dd went to Benedictine and loved it and the area so much she never came back. But for us the cost is high when combined with travel expenses.

Edited by Tiramisu
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For me, I learned a lot about fit when we helped dd1 through the recruiting process. I will give you our scenario and the questions we asked as they related to swimming and then we adapted them for ds2.

1. If you are pretty good (handful of jr national times, maybe a national time, highly ranked in your state) you have tons of options. They boil down to: do you want to be the best one on the team? do you want to be a contributing member of a solid, mid-ranked major conference team? Do you want to be barely hanging on in a top ten program?

 

This is where you have to listen to your kid. You might think that you know what they will choose, but you have to listen. It is comfortable to be the best-but you have to be willing to BE the best. That is the expectation.

It is hard to be a contributing member. You will have to work hard, chase faster people, and earn your spot for travel and conference teams. You might have to come to terms that you will never be the best one.

It is very different to be the worst one on a great team. You will struggle in practice, you will never travel, you will never contribute. Rough, but true. Yet you will always get to say you were on "that" team and swam with "those" swimmers.

 

Swimming is pretty easy because it is very metric. You can decide which of the scenarios you want and then find the team.

 

Financial stuff goes on top of that. Because a good fit financially can't really take the place of a good fit on the team. And there are lots of choices.

 

For my current senior (a non-athlete) we took his personality, test scores and grades and found a wide variety of places that could fit.

Then we looked at what we could afford. And made a few cuts.

Then we listened to what he wants. That is actually the hardest part, because it is always to tempting to "know" what is best. And somehow, we managed to get a short list. Affordability, location, clubs, etc.

And then visit. And then listen some more.

 

 

So far, it has worked well. ds2 has some criteria for schools that dh thinks are ridiculous. But it is about fit for ds2, not fit for us.

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Thank you! My friend's dd went to Benedictine and loved it and the area so much she never came back. But for us the cost is high when combined with travel expenses.

I assume that you already checked out their automatic merit scholarships. They also have a scholarship competition for larger merit scholarships. I don’t know for how much as DD wasn’t interested in BC enough to do that much research.

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I assume that you already checked out their automatic merit scholarships. They also have a scholarship competition for larger merit scholarships. I don’t know for how much as DD wasn’t interested in BC enough to do that much research.

I looked into their scholarship competition awhile back and it seemed like a pretty big investment to make to fly out from the East Coast for a low chance.

 

D has already done one scholarship competition, has another invite, and is hoping for one more invite. She also submitted an involved competitive scholarship application. It's getting a little crazy, but if D is game, I can do crazy if it's in driving distance. :)

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  • 1 month later...

Just bumping this to say how amazing it is to actually have *two* colleges on DD's possible list and to have crossed off so many others. (Practically ALL the email/snail mail she's getting are automatic 'no's from a financial standpoint and even more are too big of an academic reach. It has been fun to see the different brochures & emails, though.) 

 

Knowing what type of ACT/SAT she will need to shoot for to be competitive for the scholarships at just those two colleges plus what things they are looking for (one requires 1/2 credit of PE & another 1/2 credit of Fine Arts that she doesn't currently have on her transcript, for example) is so helpful.

 

One college visit down, many more to go! 

 

 

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