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Double Major: whose considering it or done it?


dereksurfs
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I haven’t read this study yet. It’s a 96 page PDF by Dr. Richard N. Pitt and Dr. Steven A. Tepper

 

“Double Majors: Influences, Identities, and Impacts

 

Book · January 2012 with 150 Reads

Publisher: New York, NY: Teagle Foundation

 

Prepared for the Teagle Foundation by Richard N. Pitt, PhD, Vanderbilt University and Steven Tepper, PhD, Vanderbilt Universityâ€

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Richard_Pitt2/publication/279985369_Double_Majors_Influences_Identities_and_Impacts/links/55a1e6f408ae1c0e04641448/Double-Majors-Influences-Identities-and-Impacts.pdf

 

ETA:

This is interesting so far. From page 16

 

“Finally, double majors also take more Advanced Placement classes and enter college with more Advanced Placement credit than their single majoring peers. Double Majors tend to have 3 more Advanced Placement credits. In fact, students with more than 12 AP credits are 83% more likely to double major than those who have 11 or fewer credits.

More students double major across the country in part because there are growing opportunities for them to accumulate college credit while in high school.

...

In some ways, double majors—having taken a number of accelerated/rigorous high school courses—are not only extremely well-prepared for college in general, but have gained many of the skills necessary to overcome the expected time management and other resource challenges caused by adding a second major.â€

 

ETA:

After reading the whole report, it was a good read and quite balanced.

Edited by Arcadia
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Derek,

 

Just thought this June 2017 article on a 20 year old UCDavis scholar who completed a Bachelor of Science in biochemistry and molecular biology and a Bachelor of Arts in psychology in 3 years might interest you.

 

“For Kopparapu, it has been a hot pursuit.

 

UC Davis expects students to graduate in four years or 12 quarters and so recommends undergraduates complete an average of 15 units per quarter.

 

Kopparapu brought with him 68 credits for advance placement courses and testing. Right after graduating from high school, he jumped into Summer Sessions at UC Davis, where he would earn 60 credits over three years of summer study.

 

“I decided to get going right out of the gate,†he said. “I think the summer courses prepared me a little bit for freshman year.â€

 

Kopparapu took an average of 21.3 credits in each of the nine quarters over three regular academic years — his highest load was 28 credits in fall 2016 and again in winter 2017.

 

And on the way to earning a cumulative grade point average of 3.99 through last quarter, he received an A+ in 39 courses, an A in 14, and an A- in one.

...

Kopparapu said his decision to study at UC Davis was sealed by two things: the offer of a prestigious Regents Scholarship, now valued at $7,500 a year, and the opportunity to participate in the University Honors Program.

 

The community provided by the honors program — including the option of living with other honors students during freshman year and taking smaller classes — helped dissolve that initial feeling of intimidation. And then the large campus wasn’t a disadvantage.

 

“It’s the opposite,†he said. “Because there are so many people, you will be able to find people you can connect with.†“ https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/top-uc-davis-graduate-earns-2-degrees-3-years/

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It has been recommended to oldest, but he has no interest in taking more school than he needs to.

 

Middle son is thinking about it.  He isn't quite sure what he wants to do yet, but one of his interests is not something that will be sustainable for a career (unless he is one of the VERY few lucky ones), so he wants a career and a hobby so to speak.

 

 

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Derek,

 

Can’t remember which was your Data Science thread. A friend posted this IBM/Burning Glass/BHEF report link and it is a short read (21 pages) but nice as a for your info.

 

The Quant Crunch

How the Demand for Data Science Skills is Disrupting the Job Market https://public.dhe.ibm.com/common/ssi/ecm/im/en/iml14576usen/IML14576USEN.PDF

Edited by Arcadia
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Apologies as I haven't read all the responses.

 

Mine is still a freshman but has completely shot down any suggestion to double major for now. I don't have numbers but a fair amount of math majors at Cal seem to double major in CS, both majors being under College of Letters and Sciences (not EECS).

 

For kiddo, here are some stats and info:

- 80.6 transfer units when starting this fall (brought 70.6 units from CC coursework with all but one gen ed completed and 10 units from AP classes)

- currently 3 classes or so away from graduating with a math BA

- bumped up to junior status about a month+ after starting as first year

- planning to declare math major early (by the end of first freshman semester) despite not completing the discrete math requirement - will be speaking to faculty advisor soon with recommendation from the major adviser (the recommendation note says, "can we consider giving Mr. Last Name a waiver from Math 55 seeing his track record?" :laugh:)

- therefore, could technically graduate if desired after sophomore year. But kiddo wants to wait and rightfully so...leaving kiddo 4 more semesters to dabble or double major.

 

My kid is currently choosing to keep taking more math classes along with a wide variety of other classes in philosophy, literature, and possibly film. Kiddo also wants to make full use of the excellent foreign language offerings in Cal. One example of a kid with wide interests who is NOT planning to double major. Kiddo has a rough four-year plan that has kiddo taking classes deep into graduate level math. I think this can change but right now this is kiddo's plan. This plan also allows for time to deal with some health concerns and to reduce workload to 15-17 units a semester if needed vs the 18+ it would take to double major.

 

Just remember that with the UCs, despite what it says on the website, the student could ask for individual waivers depending on the student's situation. You'll need to inquire whether this is campus-wide or specific college/department-related. The biggest challenge at Cal's Letters and Sciences has been getting appointments but with some early planning, it's possible to talk to the people to get what you need provided you have the GPA/track record and other general requirements.

 

We didn't read the Newport book or anything but I think kiddo is just very besotted with math (as well as other things but does them more from interest and does not plan to major in them). I've tried giving the "you know, CS is very useful" talk but like every other teen I know I think kiddo needs to realize this without mom's interference. :glare:

Edited by quark
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Lots of good stories about double majors in this thread.  My kids aren't old enough to major in anything yet, so I'll balance by linking to Cal Newport's  review of how double majors can ruin your life, lol.  

 

Does Cal Newport have any experience with being a hiring manager outside of academia? I'm guessing not.

 

If a student wants to major in something out of pure intellectual interest and love of the subject, that student has either got to be (A) lucky enough to be passionate about something marketable or (B) double-majoring in something practical.

 

My DH loved his history classes undergrad and his public policy classes in grad school. But those aren't the classes that employers care about. They hire him for his Electrical Engineering B.S. and his M.B.A. in finance.

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Does Cal Newport have any experience with being a hiring manager outside of academia? I'm guessing not.

 

If a student wants to major in something out of pure intellectual interest and love of the subject, that student has either got to be (A) lucky enough to be passionate about something marketable or (B) double-majoring in something practical.

 

My DH loved his history classes undergrad and his public policy classes in grad school. But those aren't the classes that employers care about. They hire him for his Electrical Engineering B.S. and his M.B.A. in finance.

 

There are a lot of hiring managers on CC who agree with Cal Newport.  There are posts there all the time about how liberal arts non-science/math degrees are often sought for their critical thinking and communication skills.

 

I am personally not quite sold on the idea, but my niece has a very successful career that is completely unrelated to her art history degree. So, I do know it is possible.

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Below is quoted from a July 2017 article on UCDavis website by Julie McGilvray who is an undergraduate advisor in the College of Letters and Science Arts Group there.

 

“What if you are interested in more than one major? This dilemma occurs for both high school students applying to college and for undergraduates discovering their possibilities once they are here. Consider these questions when trying to decide if you should double major in college.

 

1. Does a double major align with your career goals?

...

2. Would a minor or graduate degree fit better?

...

3. Can you graduate in four years while finishing a double major?

 

If you are thinking of pursuing a double major, you must plan early to stay on a four-year track. Meet with an academic advisor in your first or second year, and work closely with this advisor to determine your best options.

 

Academic advisors in your college can help you understand more about coursework, requirements and implications for adding a second major. They can help guide you toward specific courses that will allow you to explore a second major more in depth, and may also satisfy General Elective course requirements to graduate. There are also cumulative credit limits at UC Davis that may impact your options that your academic advisor can help explain.

 

The time to degree with a double major depends on the number of units required for each major, your study habits, time-management skills and persistence. Plan early, and you may not need more than four years of coursework to complete a double major. If you begin taking courses toward a double major in your second or third year of college, you will definitely need to take courses for more than four years to graduate.

 

Taking courses during Summer Sessions may be an option to reduce the amount of time to degree.

 

4. Finally, have you discussed this idea with your advisors?†https://www.ucdavis.edu/majors/blog/majors-minors/steps-decisions-double-major

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We are a STEM family who has had two students graduate from college with double majors and a third who is currently enrolled with a double major.  OTOH, our fourth child is likely to pursue a single major in college.  Here are some thoughts in no particular order:

 

- In this world in which many companies require a bachelors degree for jobs which previously required only a high-school diploma, a double major can be one way to help differentiate a student from other graduates.  It can help in launching them into a career or graduate program, particularly in multidisciplinary areas such as robotics or the many areas of biomath.

- In all three cases of our double majors, their second major was math.  Math adds a significant amount of work, but in all three cases it has been a very good addition.

- Both schools involved (VA Tech and Liberty University) have excellent math programs.  This has made the double major more attractive.

- DS27 and DD25 were both invited by their respective math departments to declare math as a second major based on their performances in math during their freshman year.  DS19 opted for a double major from the beginning.

- DS27 was extremely overloaded (multiple semesters with 23 credits) due to the double major because he had very few credits when he entered college and he graduated in four years.  He is a bit of a machine, so it worked for him.

- DD25 had normal-to-light loads and still managed to graduate in four years because she entered college with lots of credits (72 credit-hours).

- DD25 had to graduate at the end of four years because she hit the credit-hour limit for being an undergraduate student.  It was actually a little tricky to schedule since her scholarship required undergraduate status, so she had to make sure she did NOT graduate from one of her two majors prematurely.

- DS19 has fairly heavy loads, but he is not overloaded like DS27 was.  He entered college with credits somewhere between what DS27 and DD25 had.  He is a fast study, so he is finding he has time to pursue other interests.

- If the double major is in two different departments, your student may have very different experiences in the two majors.  This can add additional challenges as the two departments may have somewhat-conflicting requirements.

- The double major has been somewhat of a blessing to DS19 since he is not having a positive experience in his computer science major.  As such, he has shifted his focus to math and away from CS.  He considered dropping CS altogether, but we convinced him to stick with it to get the degree.  If it were not for the math department, he likely would be miserable and looking for another school.

- DS18 is not pursuing a double major since he will likely be pursuing nursing (or possibly pre-med) and we do not perceive that a second major will be a significant benefit to him.  He has some credit going into college, but not a lot like DD25 did.  He is a "plodder" like his sister was and we do not think that a heavy load will work for him in college.  He needs to spend time on his studies to succeed and we want him to have that time available to him.

- We don't what the youngest three Guheerts' college careers will look like.  They are all very different people.  But a double major is certainly not a given for any of them.

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I did French and Drama - it was essentially two-thirds of each subject, accomplished in the normal three years, so it was a fair bit of work but doable.  There was no academic connection between the two departments so, for example, I studied Moliere in both subjects without any useful liaison.

 

'Calvin' is studying English and Classics, again in three years.  There are 'link' courses that take full advantage of the dual background, which I think is really interesting.  'Hobbes' intends to study English and French (over the normal four years at an English university including a year abroad, or over five years at a Scottish university including a year abroad) and again the universities make efforts to have academic links between the subjects studied.

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Apologies as I haven't read all the responses.

 

Mine is still a freshman but has completely shot down any suggestion to double major for now. I don't have numbers but a fair amount of math majors at Cal seem to double major in CS, both majors being under College of Letters and Sciences (not EECS).

 

How about a minor in CS?  Do they offer that?

I ended graduating with a BS Math, minor in CS and unofficial minor in EE after 4.5 years of college (I transferred to a state U because I foolishly lost my scholarship at the expensive private college but was able to cross-register back there and take courses without paying extra)  I had a car and campuses were 1/2 hour apart. I was foolish but not stupid :)

 

OR

 

just take some CS courses for his resume - employers are looking for computing skills these days

 

-------------------------------------------

update Berkeley has a CS minor:

http://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate/degree-programs/computer-science/

 

He should definitely take:

COMPSCI 61A

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How about a minor in CS?  Do they offer that?

I ended graduating with a BS Math, minor in CS and unofficial minor in EE after 4.5 years of college (I transferred to a state U because I foolishly lost my scholarship at the expensive private college but was able to cross-register back there and take courses without paying extra)  I had a car and campuses were 1/2 hour apart. I was foolish but not stupid :)

 

OR

 

just take some CS courses for his resume - employers are looking for computing skills these days

 

-------------------------------------------

update Berkeley has a CS minor:

http://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate/degree-programs/computer-science/

 

He should definitely take:

COMPSCI 61A

 

Thanks Mark. Yes, many different plans were made by plan-loving mom only to be frowned upon by kid who thinks anything other than a 100% pure math concentration is not up for discussion. I'm wondering if I could secretly feed my plan to one of kiddo's new friends and have them convince kiddo instead. But that would be creepy and kiddo will never forgive me. All this to say, we've talked about it but unless the kid realizes this for himself they will just remain as plans.

 

I think kiddo will feel the pull of CS at some point...but it has to be from within. Thank you so much for the thoughtful suggestions!

 

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I think kiddo will feel the pull of CS at some point...but it has to be from within.

Does he like probability? Something like this course CS 174. Combinatorics and Discrete Probability or he might have already taken it. https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Courses/CS174/

 

ETA:

Now I am checking out Perimeter Institute

Edited by Arcadia
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Perimeter is really, really cool but my kid was not interested in the intense theoretical physics aspect. I know someone's kid who loved it very much. Also like kiddo with multiple interests but more in depth into those multiple interests than kiddo.

 

Kiddo is signed up for Math H185, 114, and waitlisted for 142 in spring. Very much an algebra-ist right now with nil interest in probability/discrete math.

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Thanks Mark. Yes, many different plans were made by plan-loving mom only to be frowned upon by kid who thinks anything other than a 100% pure math concentration is not up for discussion. I'm wondering if I could secretly feed my plan to one of kiddo's new friends and have them convince kiddo instead. But that would be creepy and kiddo will never forgive me. All this to say, we've talked about it but unless the kid realizes this for himself they will just remain as plans.

 

I think kiddo will feel the pull of CS at some point...but it has to be from within. Thank you so much for the thoughtful suggestions!

 

 

I think an easier way to get him involved is to peak his interest in Data Science which a truly a multidisciplinary area of study which can include a lot of complex mathematical algorithms. Some of those are used to perform predictive analytics. The math involved with some of it can make my head spin. Some of our data scientists use it to help predict outcomes. Here are a few related links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_geometry

http://proceedings.mlr.press/v32/suna14.pdf

 

Here's an article entitled The Mathematics of Machine Learning.

 

And this one: SCIENTIFIC DATA HAS BECOME SO COMPLEX, WE HAVE TO INVENT NEW MATH TO DEAL WITH IT.

 

Berkeley actually has been doing a lot of work and research in these areas of data science. Take a look at this: https://data.berkeley.edu/

Edited by dereksurfs
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If a student wants to major in something out of pure intellectual interest and love of the subject, that student has either got to be (A) lucky enough to be passionate about something marketable or (B) double-majoring in something practical.

 

My DH loved his history classes undergrad and his public policy classes in grad school. But those aren't the classes that employers care about. They hire him for his Electrical Engineering B.S. and his M.B.A. in finance.

 

Plan B is a strong possibility here.

Edited by Woodland Mist Academy
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I think an easier way to get him involved is to peak his interest in Data Science which a truly a multidisciplinary area of study which can include a lot of complex mathematical algorithms. Some of those are used to perform predictive analytics. The math involved with some of it can make my head spin. Some of our data scientists use it to help predict outcomes. Here are a few related links:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_geometry

http://proceedings.mlr.press/v32/suna14.pdf

 

Here's an article entitled The Mathematics of Machine Learning.

 

And this one: SCIENTIFIC DATA HAS BECOME SO COMPLEX, WE HAVE TO INVENT NEW MATH TO DEAL WITH IT.

 

Berkeley actually has been doing a lot of work and research in these areas of data science. Take a look at this: https://data.berkeley.edu/

 

Thanks Derek! He's really into pure math right now. All theory. No application. I'm learning to step away. :laugh:

 

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Dd has a double major with a complimentary minor. History and Anthropology majors which dovetail together nicely and an art minor (required by her history major). So far, so good. Several classes she will take fall into both majors so she shouldn't have a problem finishing in the 4 years of undergrad.

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