Have all these shootings changed your way of life?

[J-rap]

No, not at all.

[Prairie~Phlox]

I am much more aware, but some of that has to do with two girls that were murdered in a town over about 6 months ago. I do have a carry permit, but have not gotten a gun yet due to finances being tight.

 

 

[mom31257]

No, but our church has addressed it. We have a police officer on the premises now for services on Sunday morning, and our children's ministry has developed a full plan for an active shooter along with all kinds of other emergencies. 

 

Honestly, I figure there are so many people in our church who are carrying that I'm more concerned about getting hit by friendly fire than a shooter. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

no

 

 

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

No but someone asked my DH to start carrying at church. I’m not sure if he will or not. I’m pretty sure no one else does (small church, we know everyone). He’s not required to carry off duty and never has so I’m not sure what he’ll do.

[Joules]

I haven't changed my behavior.  I've always been a bit of a worrier.  I always know where the exits are and actually listen to the flight attendant's safety spiel. After an incident, I guess I'm a little more aware of the possibility and being prepared, but I still go and do all the things I did before.

 

Like others have said, I'm way more worried about ds getting back and forth from Atlanta several times a week in his car than I am about him being a victim of a random shooting at one of his events.

 

These one time things just can't be predicted.  I can see how it was different with the DC shooter since that was ongoing and everyone was looking for a pattern.

[8circles]

No. I continue to not have any interest in contributing to the gun culture by participating in it.

 

Generally, it has made me incredibly sad that so many people die from gun violence, that so many don't care, that so many belittle those of us who want to do something about it. It seems quite hopeless, really.

[Laura Corin]

The collateral damage has resulted in total uselessness of public school and made it hard to drive or walk safely off my own property.

 

Really?  I'm sorry you are dealing with this.  What happens locally to make it hard to drive or walk safely?

[poppy]

Personally, no. I don't live in fear.

But, I am on a committee to figure out how my church would handle an armed intruder and how we would evacuate the children.

Gun rights activists really are changing America.

[Crimson Wife]

Generally, it has made me incredibly sad that so many people die from gun violence, that so many don't care, that so many belittle those of us who want to do something about it. It seems quite hopeless, really.

 

My state has the strictest gun laws in the U.S. but we've still had mass shootings (such as that domestic abuser yesterday and that terrorist in San Bernadino a couple years back) and LOTS of run-of-the-mill gang-related shootings (not all of those on the linked map are gang-related but the overwhelming majority are).

 

Plus the existing gun laws aren't even being enforced, as demonstrated by the TX church massacre.

[MedicMom]

In the last three weeks, the city I work in(population 40,000) in rural New York has had one suicide by cop(where my husband, working as a paramedic) very narrowly missed being shot by the suicidal subject when he shot at the cops; a death by police shooting(armed assailant in a vehicle chase who shot at the police); a completely innocent man shot to death in a home invasion; and three other shootings(drug related). The only weapon that was legal was in the suicide by cop death, so I don’t honestly know what stricter gun laws would do.

 

Most of the people I know carry concealed. I don’t have a permit or own a gun, and that makes me the oddity in my circles. Right now I don’t feel like I need to carry one, but drug related armed home invasions are increasingly common here,(drug addicts either high and mistaking a house or simply looking for money) and I am often alone for days with my three young children. I have considered getting a permit and having a weapon for home defense. While my husband does have a concealed carry permit and does often carry, its meaningless when it comes to me and home defense.

 

(I also think geography makes a difference. I live just down the street from the sherriff’s department, but it is small and overnight the police are just as likely to be on the other end of the county. My grandmother lives very rurally, and it would be a 35-40 minute response time for any police to get there. All of this plays into how i feel as well.)

Edited November 15, 2017 by MedicMom

[klmama]

I haven't changed my habits, but I do hope my church leadership is reconsidering the emergency procedures.  Frankly, I felt a lot safer at church back when I knew that at least the off-duty police officers attending were still wearing their guns.  Now, it's a "no weapons" zone, so they don't carry in the building anymore. I know the purpose of the "no weapons" zone was to make people feel safer, but instead it's made us sitting ducks.    

[poppy]

My state has the strictest gun laws in the U.S. but we've still had mass shootings (such as that domestic abuser yesterday and that terrorist in San Bernadino a couple years back) and LOTS of run-of-the-mill gang-related shootings (not all of those on the linked map are gang-related but the overwhelming majority are).

 

Plus the existing gun laws aren't even being enforced, as demonstrated by the TX church massacre.

 

When guns rights activists and the firearm lobby start demanding laws be enforced, it might actually happen. Until then, it's nothing but a handy excuse.  Where is the outrage?

Edited November 15, 2017 by poppy

[poppy]

I haven't changed my habits, but I do hope my church leadership is reconsidering the emergency procedures.  Frankly, I felt a lot safer at church back when I knew that at least the off-duty police officers attending were still wearing their guns.  Now, it's a "no weapons" zone, so they don't carry in the building anymore. I know the purpose of the "no weapons" zone was to make people feel safer, but instead it's made us sitting ducks.    

 

As a child in the 1980s and 1990s, it never once occurred to me that I was unsafe unless there were armed people near me. 

Something has profoundly changed in America.,

[prairiewindmomma]

People disregard the vehicle laws as they invoke the 'its all about me' philosophy.  Driving on the sidewalk rather than waiting for the car ahead to make a turn, driving impaired (heroin is big here), driving without needed corrective lenses, not moving over per the 'move over law' so that law enforcement can do what they need to do, harassing bicyclists, hitting school busses or disregarding the law about waiting while they discharge passengers, blocking mailboxes and driveways, sounding the horn when a stroller pushing person legally uses the crosswalk --causing them to have to stop or slow down, running red lights from a block away, passing in no passing zones, ignoring the crossing guard to the point of hitting him, swerving to 'brush' a pedestrian, etc.

 

Its not going unnoticed, the town I live in has hired a full time officer to deal with it and he is writing tickets as fast as he can. The state has a 'safe route to schools' program and we are using it. The community is trying to reach the addicts.

 

The drivers where I live are like this also.  Add to the list: weaving through traffic, including outside the yellow lines, bumping cars in front of you if they aren't moving fast enough (this happened to my dh--he was in heavy traffic and was literally gridlocked all of the way around him and still got bumped by a big truck who was aggressively honking), and driving 60mph in pedestrian areas.

 

There are 2-3 shooting a week in my town over road rage, so it's not like you can vent by honking your own horn back.

[Word Nerd]

No. I continue to not have any interest in contributing to the gun culture by participating in it.

 

Generally, it has made me incredibly sad that so many people die from gun violence, that so many don't care, that so many belittle those of us who want to do something about it. It seems quite hopeless, really.

 

I doubt you could find even one person who doesn't care that so many people die from gun violence. 

[8circles]

I doubt you could find even one person who doesn't care that so many people die from gun violence. 

 

If one's caring doesn't prompt one to do what one can to change it, one's caring is worthless to the point of not really caring.

 

There is a lot of that going on around here and it seems to be an accurate reflection of the wider populace. Seeing as how nothing ever changes.

[8circles]

My state has the strictest gun laws in the U.S. but we've still had mass shootings (such as that domestic abuser yesterday and that terrorist in San Bernadino a couple years back) and LOTS of run-of-the-mill gang-related shootings (not all of those on the linked map are gang-related but the overwhelming majority are).

 

Plus the existing gun laws aren't even being enforced, as demonstrated by the TX church massacre.

 

Right. Guess there's nothing we can do. 

[HS Mom in NC]

No. I've always been aware of exits and I tend to avoid large crowds because of my personality. I live in a concealed carry state so the idea of lots of guns around doesn't itself bother me. I know I'm around people with concealed weapons when I'm out and about.  I wish all gun owners were like my extended family members who took reputable classes about the legalities and usage of firearms. I do think if there are laws on the books then they need to be enforced.

I consider driving to be the riskiest thing I do and I don't see myself making changes in that department either.
 

[rainbowmama]

I drill the kids on what to do if they are in a shooting, but otherwise, no. I am a worrier, and knowing the kids know what to do helps me.

[Library Momma]

I have always had pretty good situational awareness, but I have definitely become more alert to my surroundings in the last few years. Just things like paying attention to the people near me, what kinds of things they have with them, and whether they seem agitated or not. I also trust my gut and if something doesn't feel right, I may move to another area. Like the other day, I was walking into Home Depot to get something and there was a guy about 20 feet ahead of me that sent all my red flag alarms in full alert. I got back in my car and went back to Home Depot later in the day.

 

 

I am similar.  I grew up learning to avoid situations that send up red flags.  When I was about 9 I was in Manhattan with my mom in a coffee shop and a man came in and started ranting about the end of the world.  My mother threw money on the counter and dragged me out of the shop so quickly I barely knew what happened.  I was always astounded when I would see people gathering around the site of any kind of trouble, like the scene of a crime.

[Halftime Hope]

No. 

 

We have always been a family that is very aware of surroundings, assesses risk/benefit, and lives an intentionally low drama life.

 

I do remember being pretty shaken when I had littles; there were two public, evening shootings, one across the street from our house in a grocery store front parking lot (we lived behind the store), and later one at our local mall.

 

I changed to using a fanny pack so that I could have my hands free to wrangle my kidlets, and so that I could unclip it and throw my pack if I were mugged, while we went the opposite direction. We also were very intentional about limiting the number of unimportant (discretionary) things we did out and about at night.

 

We raised my kids to try to pick low(er) risk activities--for example, staying off the roads on high-risk holiday evenings--and we planned/hosted things for our kids' youth group to provide the same kind of protection for their friends.   For years, the youth group met at our house on New Year's Eve, played and worshipped together all evening, and then the guys adjourned to a very close-by home shortly after midnight for all-night videogames, while the girls stayed at our house for a sleepover. 

 

We've lived with the risk of public events being a target for a number of years, so that is nothing new. The best we can do is to be alert to what is going on in our surroundings and be prepared for the worst. 

 

For big events, we routinely carry a backpack which includes water for all present, other event-appropriate gear, and a first-aid packet that has catastrophic bleed-out prevention equipment, just because that's about the easiest way to die, and with large events you could be a long way from medical help.  If properly trained, people might not want to risk moving you.

 

Our cars are also stocked more thoroughly with both first aid, life-saving, and roadside assistance items.

 

 

What I'm saying, over-all, is that no, nothing is new.  We live with appropriate measures so that we can enjoy life to the fullest while knowing we've not neglected reasonable precaution.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MedicMom]

No, I've not changed my behavior much.

And nope, I'd never live in your town, medicmom. I'm pretty sure I know it, and that whole area has gone downhill. I've never seen more uneducated, outright stupid people in an urban area, lol. It's totally different than what it was in the 70's and 80's. Even the local newscasters sound like buffoons! The number of drug addicts is horrid, I'm not sure how to fix it. The school districts could certainly be improved, tho!

Need to add that my husband's side of the family reside in this area, and there's a good chance they have brought down the average IQ of the place.

I wouldn’t live there either. I happily live a few blocks away from the edge of one of the finger lakes and drive 45 minutes to work in the next county. Unfortunately it seems that it’s starting to spill over to up here to my little town, because in the last six months home invasions, vehicle theft and drug arrests have skyrocketed.

I’m really convinced there’s just no cleaning up that particular city between the lack of decent jobs and the crime rate. And the complete lack of interest.

 

My cousin is a teacher at one of the schools. The stories she tells would be unbelievable if I wasn’t in many of the homes as a paramedic and saw it with my own eyes.

Edited November 15, 2017 by MedicMom

[poppy]

If one's caring doesn't prompt one to do what one can to change it, one's caring is worthless to the point of not really caring.

 

There is a lot of that going on around here and it seems to be an accurate reflection of the wider populace. Seeing as how nothing ever changes.

 

No no, if you care when people die from gun violence, you  say "thoughts and prayers are with the victims".

Poof ,  you showed you care and hope it doesn't happen again.   

Voting, legislation, accountability,  money from the firearm industry-- that's a whole different conversation. 

We're saying we care when sometime bad happens.

[Halftime Hope]

No. I continue to not have any interest in contributing to (1) the gun culture by participating in it.

 

Generally, it has made me incredibly sad that so many people die from gun violence, (2)

 

that so many don't care,  (3)

 

that so many belittle those of us who want to do something about it.  (4)

 

It seems quite hopeless, really.

 

1) I think it could be reasonably said that I and my family are participants in one facet of gun culture, although we wouldn't chose that designation to describe ourselves, nor do we have much, if anything, in common with some other individuals to which people apply that name. Further, the moniker does not define us, nor does it encompass my life.  I don't see that balance in a lot of the very. loud. voices.

 

It might help to consider that, just as an example, the number of white supremacists is estimated at only about 6,000. That is quite a few less than mainstream media give the impression; I know it's in media's economic best interest to stir up strife. I'm hopeful that the facet of gun culture that is despicable is similarly small. Criminals, on the other hand, cause me numerical concern.

 

2) Heartbroken is the word I would use for how I feel about what gun violence and criminal activity does to families.  Sad just doesn't describe the anguish in families due to unjust, undeserved, unexpected loss of loved ones.  I have had such a loss from criminal activity.

 

3) I am a firm gun rights advocate.  Because I speak out for gun rights and give people here small glimpses of my family's life, some think they can broad-brush me and others, so yeah, I'm right there with you on feeling belittled.  It is simplistic, very polarizing, and ultimately does the nation a disservice to say that "gun culture" doesn't care. The NRA instructor in Sutherland Springs demonstrated that he cared by running toward danger, at the risk of his own life. My family would do the same.  You are right though, some people don't care:  criminals don't care.  A few mentally ill are incapable of caring.  You care. I care.  We have that in common.

 

4) We are pretty tired of having those want to "do something about it" maligning us, saying--at best--that we don't care or that we are selfish.  The problem with most of the proposals is that they've been proven to be ineffective, they are flat out un-Constitutional, they penalize entire large groups of law-abiding citizens, and worst of all, they will make us more vulnerable to those who won't give a rip about a law-abiding life.

 

I do think there is much that can be done; I'm working a couple of things that I consider promising. There were quite a few promising proposals or thoughts in the other thread. 

 

Peace.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Halftime Hope

[Crimson Wife]

When guns rights activists and the firearm lobby start demanding laws be enforced, it might actually happen. Until then, it's nothing but a handy excuse.  Where is the outrage?

 

Turns out that guy yesterday who went on a shooting spree had been barred from possessing firearms. I don't think we need more gun restrictions so much as better enforcement of existing ones.

[hornblower]

 

 

It might help to consider that, just as an example, the number of white supremacists is estimated at only about 6,000.

 

 

 

**Citation please? 

 

I've read 5,000-8,000 for KKK alone, never mind all the other neo nazi and white supremacist groups plus all the others who don't bother joining a group and are just racist in private and public life. 

 

Also, more generally, I'm not sure I follow your train of thought here. The country is awash in guns, gun production and sales have been growing exponentially and the guns are more lethal than ever. That is a problem imo. 

 

[8circles]

1) I think it could be reasonably said that I and my family are participants in one facet of gun culture, although we wouldn't chose that designation to describe ourselves, nor do we have much, if anything, in common with some other individuals to which people apply that name. Further, the moniker does not define us, nor does it encompass my life.  I don't see that balance in a lot of the very. loud. voices.

You have an interesting definition of "balance".

It might help to consider that, just as an example, the number of white supremacists is estimated at only about 6,000. That is quite a few less than mainstream media give the impression; I know it's in media's economic best interest to stir up strife. I'm hopeful that the facet of gun culture that is despicable is similarly small. Criminals, on the other hand, cause me numerical concern.

No, it doesn't help.

2) Heartbroken is the word I would use for how I feel about what gun violence and criminal activity does to families.  Sad just doesn't describe the anguish in families due to unjust, undeserved, unexpected loss of loved ones.  I have had such a loss from criminal activity.

You are clearly much more emotive than I am. +1 for HH.

3) I am a firm gun rights advocate.  Because I speak out for gun rights and give people here small glimpses of my family's life, some think they can broad-brush me and others, so yeah, I'm right there with you on feeling belittled.  It is simplistic, very polarizing, and ultimately does the nation a disservice to say that "gun culture" doesn't care. The NRA instructor in Sutherland Springs demonstrated that he cared by running toward danger, at the risk of his own life. My family would do the same.  You are right though, some people don't care:  criminals don't care.  A few mentally ill are incapable of caring.  You care. I care.  We have that in common.

Oh, I'm so sorry that you feel broad-brushed. Thoughts and prayers.

4) We are pretty tired of having those want to "do something about it" maligning us, saying--at best--that we don't care or that we are selfish.  The problem with most of the proposals is that they've been proven to be ineffective, they are flat out un-Constitutional, they penalize entire large groups of law-abiding citizens, and worst of all, they will make us more vulnerable to those who won't give a rip about a law-abiding life.

Again, thoughts and prayers.

I do think there is much that can be done; I'm working a couple of things that I consider promising. There were quite a few promising proposals or thoughts in the other thread. 

 

Peace. 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by 8circles

[slackermom]

Well, we chose to buy a crappy condo in a fairly safe neighborhood, rather than a better place in a neighborhood with higher crime rate. MIL was held up at gunpoint in her driveway when DH was a kid, and he wanted to move away from that area when he was ready for his own kids. In the last few years, someone shot up a pizza parlor in Dh's old neighborhood, and in researching schools there, I found a report of a handgun left on a window sill (to get around the metal detectors). There have been many many other shootings around there, mostly gang related, but the bullets are indiscriminate.

[elegantlion]

No, it hasn't really changed much of my actions although it has affected how I think about some situations. I do consider what I would do if an active shooter was on campus or if one came into our classroom. 

 

I've always watched my surroundings and kept track of exits. 

[lauraw4321]

I was near a terrorist attack. If I am anywhere besides Home, especially anywhere with my kids, I make a plan. I look for escapes. For places to hide. For things I can use as weapons. I have my phone within easy reach. I still do things and go places, but I exercise a lot of vigilance.

[Halftime Hope]

**Citation please? 

 

I've read 5,000-8,000 for KKK alone, never mind all the other neo nazi and white supremacist groups plus all the others who don't bother joining a group and are just racist in private and public life. 

 

Also, more generally, I'm not sure I follow your train of thought here. The country is awash in guns, gun production and sales have been growing exponentially and the guns are more lethal than ever. That is a problem imo. 

 

I've given it about 15 minutes of search time, and I can't find it in print.  I listen to NPR a lot, and I know I *heard* it as part of a discussion [ETA: while I was working] in my kitchen, but of course I can't find or cite something I heard.  Maybe what I cited is no longer accurate.  It didn't occur to me that it might have changed in a pretty short timeframe.

 

I lost one post on explaining my train of thought.  I'll try again:

 

On the news, we hear so much about the threat of the alt-right, Nazis or neo-Nazis, white this or white that.  I was surprised that the number I heard that morning was actually so small, for all the press time and attention being given.  (Similar to my feelings about David Duke.  For God's sake, just shut up about that stooopid bit of sewerage. Dear media: quit talking about him. He's irrelevant. Quit giving him a platform, and you won't have to repudiate him.)

 

Let's assume my number is wrong and that collectively, it's 10,000 or even 20,000.  That's 10,001 or 20,001 too many, but it's still quite a small number, thank God.  The overwhelming, vast majority of Americans repudiate their horrible ideology(ies).

Edited November 16, 2017 by Halftime Hope

[Halftime Hope]

"You have an interesting definition of balance."

 

Fair point on questioning my definition of balance; I didn't complete the thought well.  Here's what I meant:

 

Although we enjoy shooting sports and take seriously staying in shape and in practice for self-defense, being part of "gun culture" doesn't consume or define our lives. It isn't the be all, end all of everything we stand for, participate in, or enjoy, nor who we hang out with.  It is one part of my family's life.  There are several aspects of my life that I consider defining; this is not one of them.

 

I don't see that same kind of balance in a lot of the loudest voices in society, be it this issue or others. It does us a grave disservice when we forget how complex and nuanced each other are, and when we lose our grip on what binds us together, on our commonality.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Halftime Hope

[madteaparty]

I'm not going to host exchange students anymore, and feel free to openly ask their parents (if know them) whether they're insane for considering.

I hate putting DD on the bus everyday. Her seat is near a window and I wonder if she'll think to pull up a chair and break through.

[mommyoffive]

I'm not going to host exchange students anymore, and feel free to openly ask their parents (if know them) whether they're insane for considering.

I hate putting DD on the bus everyday. Her seat is near a window and I wonder if she'll think to pull up a chair and break through.

 

Why will you not host students?

 

 

 

Does anyone have a good link for what you should teach children and adults? 

 

I like some of the ideas about having medical supplies on hand.  Hmm.  What exactly do you have? 

 

 

I haven't changed anything, but it is something that I do think about. 

[hornblower]

 

 

I like some of the ideas about having medical supplies on hand.  Hmm.  What exactly do you have? 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if you saw the link I posted above about first aid training specifically for hemorrhage?  In addition to the classes they offer, they also have kits. http://www.bleedingcontrol.org/

 

Generally taking and keeping utd with first aid training is probably one of the better ideas. Car accidents, heart attacks and strokes are the most common life threatening events which we'll be faced with responding to...

[madteaparty]

Why will you not host students?

 

 

 

Does anyone have a good link for what you should teach children and adults?

 

I like some of the ideas about having medical supplies on hand. Hmm. What exactly do you have?

 

 

I haven't changed anything, but it is something that I do think about.

Because I don't think it's safe here.

[Wabi Sabi]

Not really in my everyday life, but last month I took the kids to NYC and I'll admit that I had a few "What if" thoughts when we were in Times Square, on the Staten Island Ferry, and other more crowded touristy areas.