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rainbowmama
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We didn't homeschool primarily for religious reasons, but are very conservative religiously.  I would not mind being in a homeschool group with those kids. I would not discourage friendship within the group activities, but would probably not pursue a friendship outside of group activities.

 

 

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Adding, I think kids need to know how to interact and be friendly with kids from all different belief systems.  I don't see a point in trying to wall your kid off from that, but rather monitoring and discussion on how to interact and  to make sure it stays within boundaries.  A homeschool group is perfect for that in my opinion.

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When you say "if you homeschool for religious reasons" what do you mean?

 

If you homeschool in order to prevent your children from coming in contact with worldviews other than your own, then yes you probably want to avoid associating with this family.

 

In any other circumstance, I think you need to view the situation as a whole. There are good and moral people who have many different spiritual and religious perspectives. Is the parent someone you generally like and trust? Is the situation one where children are proselytizing to one another? Do your children have a comfortable understanding of the reality that not everyone shares your family's beliefs?

 

What is your perspective on card reading--do you consider it to be occult and inherently dangerous and evil, or just misguided?

 

I'm pretty sure that 99% of kids who associate with the children of card readers do not up and abandon their own family's beliefs in favor of someone else's, but you have every right to establish your own boundaries that you feel will keep your children safe. I don't think anyone else can determine for you what those should be.

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Oh okay. I am conservative and religious. I guess I would consider myself evangelical Christian.

I have an acquaintance who is a professional psychic. She does tarot readings. She even did one for me(none of it came true, but anyway). My kids play with hers. I actually believe in the supernatural and ghosts, and I have specific reasons for that, but generally I believe psychics and tarot readers are at best delusional and at worst out and out frauds.

But I like my acquaintance and what she does for a living doesn’t affect or bother me.

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Not religious but I would discourage play dates. Same class is a non-issue but not things like lunch breaks where the parent might be around. I had classmates that love palm reading and face reading for fortune telling and doesn’t take no for an answer. So I would be wary until I am certain the parent isn’t going to cross those boundaries.

 

What is a card reader? I feel like I’m missing something.

Fortune telling usually.

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When you say "if you homeschool for religious reasons" what do you mean?

 

If you homeschool in order to prevent your children from coming in contact with worldviews other than your own, then yes you probably want to avoid associating with this family.

 

In any other circumstance, I think you need to view the situation as a whole. There are good and moral people who have many different spiritual and religious perspectives. Is the parent someone you generally like and trust? Is the situation one where children are proselytizing to one another? Do your children have a comfortable understanding of the reality that not everyone shares your family's beliefs?

 

What is your perspective on card reading--do you consider it to be occult and inherently dangerous and evil, or just misguided?

 

I'm pretty sure that 99% of kids who associate with the children of card readers do not up and abandon their own family's beliefs in favor of someone else's, but you have every right to establish your own boundaries that you feel will keep your children safe. I don't think anyone else can determine for you what those should be.

 

I read cards, mostly as a hobby but occasionally as a paying gig. I just got offered a very part-time job and am just trying to get a sense of how it might affect the kids socially if I accept and the kids mentioned it to some of our more religiously conservative acquaintances

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I read cards, mostly as a hobby but occasionally as a paying gig. I just got offered a very part-time job and am just trying to get a sense of how it might affect the kids socially if I accept and the kids mentioned it to some of our more religiously conservative acquaintances

 

I'm a beginner hobby reader and I would consider whether what you do for work would even come up around acquaintances that might be offended. I wouldn't be handing out business cards around them, but I wouldn't hide it. 

 

homeschooling for religious reasons does not always serve as code to not allow their children around people who think differently. I always figured I would be judged for many other things from those groups, such as letting ds play video games, have a phone at 10, or allowing him unmonitored computer usage, or even as simple as the Halo shirt he would wear to group meetings.

 

We did have discussions at a fairly early age about people making pre-judgments before they get to know you. He never cared. For us, it feel under the philosophy of being yourself and finding those people that accept you for that, rather than molding myself into something acceptable for one particular group. 

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FYI, you might want to mark your title CC for Christian Content!    ;)

 

(Unless other religions might object to card reading?  And yes, I know not all Christians object, but typically objectors are Christian.)

 

Not so. The 3 major world religions all oppose any type of fortune-telling: Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. If it seems like typical objectors are Christian, that's probably because you live in a Christian-dominated area. I also think that many Muslims would be reluctant to be as vocal as others are on the subject, simply because they are under the microscope. 

 

 

I read cards, mostly as a hobby but occasionally as a paying gig. I just got offered a very part-time job and am just trying to get a sense of how it might affect the kids socially if I accept and the kids mentioned it to some of our more religiously conservative acquaintances

 

I'm not religious myself, but my experience is that many religious people will be okay with being in a class or group, but will discourage friendship. If your kids are old enough, I'd simply tell them not to mention it. 

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I've always considered our local homeschool group as being pretty open (vs. the extremely closed & closed-minded evangelical Christian group in the town north of us). However, there are always some who react strongly to "outsiders" (in terms of belief system). We recently had a mom absolutely freak out over the possibly of a witch and her agnostic (atheist?) children joining our group (including joining a facebook page or just showing up at some events). I missed most of the drama because I'm not on Facebook, but it was such a big deal that I heard about it offline.

 

I already knew (of) the mom/family and could simply not understand the idea that this family would be excluded from our events purely because of the mom's beliefs with the assumption that the mom and the kids wouldn't be openly discussing/ sharing their belief system. Our group members generally don't share their belief systems (Christian or not) at group events. I'd assume the same of the newcomers.

 

I wouldn't necessarily have my kids hang out with hers, but I've made that decision for certain families who belong to churches in the area that are rabidly against members of my faith, too. If your kid is going to tell mine (in private) that my kid going to he)) because they belong to [insert denomination/faith], I'm going to keep my (younger than 12) kid(s) away from yours.

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Not so. The 3 major world religions all oppose any type of fortune-telling: Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. If it seems like typical objectors are Christian, that's probably because you live in a Christian-dominated area. I also think that many Muslims would be reluctant to be as vocal as others are on the subject, simply because they are under the microscope. 

 

Thanks for the info!

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Honestly, I'd struggle with knowing what to do.  I know a number of people reading this will be upset at me, but I have to give an honest answer, since you (the OP) want to know what may happen.

 

My Christian religion teaches me to avoid "witchcraft" and card reading would fall under that heading.  I'm aware that I'm not being exact on the definitions of witchcraft: just in general, using cards to tell the future is something my religion frowns on a lot and they'd call it "witchcraft" whether or not it technically or even non-technically is.

 

Part of me would greatly want you and yours to feel included.  I would want to extend a hand of friendship, without expecting anything back (not expecting you to convert to my religion or anything like that.)

 

And yet, it would be very, very, very hard for me to break away from 44 years of teaching that card reading is literally evil.  I would feel uncomfortable if I thought my kids were somehow around something "evil."  Urgh.  I think I'm sounding horrible, but I want to give you honest feedback about how a Christian group may feel about it.  I honestly think that a number of them would feel that what you were doing was literally evil and they wouldn't want their kids around an evil activity.  Even if you're not reading the cards at co-op, I think they'd feel funny having their kids visit your kids.

 

Of course, different Christian groups may feel differently about it.  

 

And I would struggle, because I hate the idea of excluding people...but I've had it drummed into me for so long that astrology and the like is evil.  I would probably err on the side of not taking any action.  I wouldn't prohibit my kids from playing with yours at co-op, but I probably also wouldn't encourage a deeper friendship between the kids outside of co-op.

 

 

 

Edited by Garga
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FYI, you might want to mark your title CC for Christian Content! ;)

 

(Unless other religions might object to card reading? And yes, I know not all Christians object, but typically objectors are Christian.)

My family culture objects anything to do with fortune telling because there is a life debt to pay for knowing. It doesn’t mean they won’t resort to fortune telling if a relative is gravely ill but the asker owe a debt for the answer.

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I read cards, mostly as a hobby but occasionally as a paying gig. I just got offered a very part-time job and am just trying to get a sense of how it might affect the kids socially if I accept and the kids mentioned it to some of our more religiously conservative acquaintances

 

Are you reading for fun/art, or because you believe that the cards actually predict the future?

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My family culture objects anything to do with fortune telling because there is a life debt to pay for knowing. It doesn’t mean they won’t resort to fortune telling if a relative is gravely ill but the asker owe a debt for the answer.

 

Thank you, interesting.

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Honestly, I'd struggle with knowing what to do.  I know a number of people reading this will be upset at me, but I have to give an honest answer, since you (the OP) want to know what may happen.

 

.  I wouldn't prohibit my kids from playing with yours at co-op, but I probably also wouldn't encourage a deeper friendship between the kids outside of co-op.

 

I'm with you, Garga.  I would not consider it likely that card reading or fortunetelling would come up in the co-op/homeschool group environment.  If it "came up" as just a comment or discussion, I could be fine with that and could discuss it with my kid.  I would not pursue further relationship though, because I believe it to be a dangerous road.  But I wouldn't run from the family or give them the stink eye.

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If you homeschool for religious reasons, would you be comfortable with your kids being in a homeschool group with the kids of a card reader? Would you discourage a friendship with those kids?

 

This has never occurred to me, honestly.  Associating within a homeschool group, no problem.  My comfort level with varying degrees of closeness beyond that would depend on a lot of factors on both sides.  Regardless, I think your personal experience will depend very much on the religious climate in your area as well as the individuals you end up associating with.  :)

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Really strange to me that whether or not to shun a child is considered a reasonable question in some circles.

Try the perspective of choosing which influences you want for your kids. If, say, you knew a particular family were outspoken racists--would you choose for your children to associate closely with them? Especially young children who may not yet have formed strong moral opinions about racism?

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I wouldn't mind for myself, but I'd be a little more alert about a kid, especially a young one, especially if the reader didn't seem to have boundaries or be consultative with parents before talking this up to the kids.  So I'd be watchful for a while.  Most people who I have known who do readings or rituals seem to bring them into settings where it is hard to back out of them OR keep them very secret--I'm not saying you're like either one of those, but I would not want this to be taught to my kid by an adult so I'd be watching for the first.  Rosie, OTOH, sounds both matter of fact and boundary respecting, and I love that, but I don't know anyone like that IRL.  So I'd be cautious.

 

Examples of settings like that--I belong to a business networking group, and the group's MFT planned to use her presentation time to lead us in a cleansing ritual that had nothing to do with MFT work but rather with her (side) tarot work.  She ended up needing to be out of town that day, but it would have been very awkward to refuse, and I thought it was inappropriate, similar to if I tried to teach that group a Christian hymn and lead them in prayer as my presentation time, both of which I would do with people who WANTED to and were not sort of bait and switched into it.  I would have dealt with that OK, but I would not EVER allow my kids to be pressured / taught that way.

 

ETA:  I was picturing this as a homeschooling teacher doing it.  If it's kids to kids, not a teacher doing this, I'd have a quick private discussion with the parent, and we would go ahead and pursue the friendship unless I observed that it was inflicted on my kids by the parent despite the prior commitment otherwise.

 

ETA also:  I show the same respect to other parents wrt our beliefs.  Kids don't have to join us at the table prayer, which is short and memorized, and I make SURE that it is easy not to, a la, 'those who would like...' plus we have a secular handholding ritual afterwards so everyone is included regardless of beliefs, for instance.  Because of this, at various points I've been the translator when, for instance, a folk tale makes Biblical references that I don't want to be disparaged to my kid but that other parents don't want their kids to be told to believe.  I know how to express those references as 'background' in a way that respects both views.

 

ETA The Sequel:  But, I didn't homeschool for religious reasons.  However, I am Christian and take that quite seriously.  I would feel the same about it in a school setting friendship.  In fact, one of the reasons I shied away from the local Waldorf school, which was a great fit for us in many ways, was their direct teaching occult beliefs.

Edited by Carol in Cal.
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Ditto.

 

Guess I know why some people turned down our play date offer!

 

(I don't use tarot or i ching anymore, but you're right, they are good thinking tools. I'm suprised when people think they are more than that. Obviously, a lady with a pack of cards can't literally tell the future).

Except that some people think they can.

 

 

A friend of mine has gone that route, believing that she has special spiritual abilities that let her use the cards to actually see people's future/give them direction.

 

I'm not at all comfortable really with the direction she has taken. She moved to another state, but if she were still nearby I might in fact limit the time my family spent interacting with hers. Children in the same class once a week wouldn't bother me but my kids in her house on a regular basis would.

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Unless the children are constantly quoting you about spirituality/religion or trying to predict my kids' future I wouldn't care if they interacted in class. Outside of class? At your home? I would want to know maybe if the cards were out and being used there, that type of thing. Like I've told my son (he saw it on TV) that we don't use Ouija boards. But likewise, I keep conversations pretty secular unless I'm in a Christian circle. And even then, I don't talk about religious stuff much.

 

I do occasionally host homeschool meet-ups in my home. I often have cards out in my room, which is off limits but I've had a stray toddler wander in there anyway (and quickly ushered out). I couldn't guarantee that a kid would never see a book or deck put away on a bookshelf, but I've never had kids playing with tarot or oracles cards in my house that weren't my own. It's never been an issue, and if a parent or child noticed, they didn't say anything.

Edited by rainbowmama
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I’m Catholic. As long as your kids are decent human beings, you are welcome to sit at our table! But, I know that that is not true for many of the HS families I know.

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Except that some people think they can.

 

 

A friend of mine has gone that route, believing that she has special spiritual abilities that let her use the cards to actually see people's future/give them direction.

 

I'm not at all comfortable really with the direction she has taken. She moved to another state, but if she were still nearby I might in fact limit the time my family spent interacting with hers. Children in the same class once a week wouldn't bother me but my kids in her house on a regular basis would.

 

Yes, I have known a lot of tarot readers and several people who get visions when they lay hands on someone, and they all believe that they can predict the future.  No question about it. 

 

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I'm not religious myself, but my experience is that many religious people will be okay with being in a class or group, but will discourage friendship. If your kids are old enough, I'd simply tell them not to mention it. 

 

Well, one of my kids is a preschooler, but even then, I'd feel uncomfortable asking the kids to keep secrets like that for me.

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I'd probably want those kids in my house, to show them that brown people are just like you and me, mister. Sadly, they wouldn't be allowed to visit.

 

That's an honest answer - kids in a racist family ? I'd have them here in a heartbeat to offer them a different perspective. Unless my kids requested I didn't, in which case their needs come first.

 

In any case, a job is not the equivalent of holding racist views.

I don't think the job is an equivalent either but to a person with strong beliefs about the spiritual dangers of something like tarot the association could appear dangerous.

 

You mentioned that you would happily have the racist children in your home. Would you be equally happy about your children (I'm thinking young children here) spending a lot of time in their home? What if they weren't racist against people like your family but we're rabidly opposed to, say, people from Japan and were constantly denigrating them? Again, think young children who might not yet have fully adopted your own moral viewpoint on the matter?

 

And of course the analogy isn't perfect.

Edited by maize
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Are you reading for fun/art, or because you believe that the cards actually predict the future?

 

In my personal practice, I believe it to be a form of prayer. When reading with others, it can feel like prayer, it can feel like counseling, with hostile seekers it can feel like an awful test designed to see me fail... it really depends on the seeker.

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What about her kids in your house ?

That would really depend. If the kids were into the same things--say, doing pretend readings on my kids--i would probably still have to limit things. I've got too many kids under foot to keep a close watch on what they were doing.

 

If the kids seemed to be just doing normal kid stuff it wouldn't bother me. Almost none of my friends growing up shared my religious worldview but it mostly just didn't come up, ya know?

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My dh grew up in a Christian home, his best friend in high school was wiccan, in a wicca practicing family. They spent many hours at each other's homes and the parents were always kind to each other - though at that age it was a kid friendship rather than a family friendship.

 

Neither tried to convert the other, though I think each invited their friend to something once or twice. It was just nbd. Dh is still a Christian btw.

 

For younger kids I would be a little more cautious, honestly. More in the sense of being present so I can explain, rather than shunning. I wouldn't be impressed if meeting included pressure to participate. The family would be welcome here.

Edited by LMD
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I don't know any Tarot readers who treat their cards as toys to give to the kids to take to their friends houses, tbh.

 

Idk, guys. It's a job. I object to the military (in large part). Think I'm a good person if I won't have the kids of someone serving at my house, because the kids might want to play armies ? If that happened, I wouldn't be thrilled, but we'd just talk about it afterwards.

Personally I'm inclined to agree with you on this particular situation but OP was asking particularly about how this might be taken by religious homeschoolers so I've tried to explore some possible concerns from that perspective.

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Fair enough.

 

I'd just point out to religious homeschoolers (not you, just general) that shunning people's kids is a really, really good way of making people have a poor opinion of your religion.

 

Parental values generally withstand playdates, imo.

I think you are generally right about values and play dates.

 

The other twist to this--and this is one point where the racism analogy breaks down--is that some people will believe that things like tarot reading are actual expressions of very real forces of evil--so there is a danger there beyond that of a child picking up someone else's values. They may be exposed to satanic influence that can do them actual harm.

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We didn't homeschool primarily for religious reasons, but are very conservative religiously. I would not mind being in a homeschool group with those kids. I would not discourage friendship within the group activities, but would probably not pursue a friendship outside of group activities.

This. And I would add that I would not want the card reading done in class.

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Try the perspective of choosing which influences you want for your kids. If, say, you knew a particular family were outspoken racists--would you choose for your children to associate closely with them? Especially young children who may not yet have formed strong moral opinions about racism?

 

I agree.

 

People make choices about friendships and associations all the time, and for lots of different reasons.   

 

As for the OP, I am pretty conservative religiously though that was not the reason I homeschooled.  My (very limited) experience with card readers is that they either believe they can tell the future (and take it very seriously), or they are acting unethically by telling people that the cards can show them things when they (card reader) knows they can't.  I guess if I heard of a mom who did card readings professionally, I might be cautious about building a relationship. If I knew you and your family, I wouldn't cut off a relationship with you over it unless something negative came up - such as, you doing a reading for one of my kids without my permission. Which I'm pretty much assuming you wouldn't do.  

 

I have never heard of using them as a thinking tool, and if it's not too much of a derailment I would be interested in reading more about that.  

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In my personal practice, I believe it to be a form of prayer. When reading with others, it can feel like prayer, it can feel like counseling, with hostile seekers it can feel like an awful test designed to see me fail... it really depends on the seeker.

 

Thanks for answering!

 

I can not answer your original question, since I'm an agnostic somewhere between very liberal Christian and atheist depending on the day you ask, and my reasons for homeschooling have nothing to do with religion. 

 

What you describe wouldn't have any bearing on my decisions about whether to be friends, or have our children be friends. 

 

If you told my young child that you believed the cards could tell his future, I'd probably tell him that I didn't believe that, and that he could make up his own mind.  Not that different from what I would tell him if someone told him that bread and wine could literally turn into the body and blood of Christ, or that Muhammad was the prophet of Allah.   It wouldn't impact our friendship one bit.  

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I have had a person tell me she does not become friends with the local group of Christian homeschoolers, because while they are friendly at evens, they would never invite her kids into their homes. She's not a card reader or anything.  She's a financial analyst actually.  But she doesn't attend a church.  We are in New England where people are typically fairly tight lipped about religion.  And I thought she was being paranoid. But this thread has really opened my eyes.

 

As an outside observer, comparing a person with different beliefs to a outspoken racist is .... odd.  Living where I do, I know so many people with different beliefs.  I guess I can understand the "circle the wagons against the evil of most everyone in the USA" is a thing but I didn't realize how widespread it was here.

 

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I wouldn't mind for myself, but I'd be a little more alert about a kid, especially a young one, especially if the reader didn't seem to have boundaries or be consultative with parents before talking this up to the kids.  So I'd be watchful for a while.  Most people who I have known who do readings or rituals seem to bring them into settings where it is hard to back out of them OR keep them very secret--I'm not saying you're like either one of those, but I would not want this to be taught to my kid by an adult so I'd be watching for the first.  

 

Examples of settings like that--I belong to a business networking group, and the group's MFT planned to use her presentation time to lead us in a cleansing ritual that had nothing to do with MFT work but rather with her (side) tarot work.  She ended up needing to be out of town that day, but it would have been very awkward to refuse, and I thought it was inappropriate, similar to if I tried to teach that group a Christian hymn and lead them in prayer as my presentation time, both of which I would do with people who WANTED to and were not sort of bait and switched into it. 

 

It would be pretty strange for a Tarot reader to read for someone else's kids, even *with* parental permission.

 

Also, cleansing rituals have nothing to do with reading Tarot unless you want them to, like your interesting associate does. She probably doesn't think it is in any way like you teaching the unsuspecting a hymn. Tarot cards and cleansing rituals are not inherently religious to the person doing them. If it comes up again, though, go ahead and be awkward. I always leave the room when people do breathing exercises and hide behind a tree during Indigenous smoking ceremonies.

 

I've given Tarot readings that said "I think it's about time you went back to church," and you all know how un-churchy I am.

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FWIW the only time I can personally recall limiting my children's exposure to other particular children was when we lived near a group of children who were getting into serious mischief--as in, breaking into people's houses and stealing stuff mischief. They were pre teens and younger, some of them adopted out of foster care so lots of trauma in their backgrounds. I didn't dislike the kids and certainly didn't want to ostrasize them, but definitely did not trust whatever influence they might have on my own young children.

Edited by maize
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One of my book club moms (the book club I ran and hosted FOR FREE at my house), saw a statue of Ganesh on dh's desk (he is Indian but not Hindu - it's a cultural connection with country, not a religious thing for him), freaked out and never came back to our house again. 

 

I will give my reply to the question next (we didn't homeschool for religious reasons mainly) but I had to comment on this.  My kids would have really loved to see it;  We find cool things in lots of cultures and when we were moving to Europe, we stayed at a hotel next to Dulles Airport (Washington DC) for a few days while we took our truck to get shipped out, got cats health certificates, etc.  On the day before we were getting on the plane, the hotel hosted an American/Indian wedding.  There was a large Ganesh statutue (I think it might have been paper=mache) and the kids were so interested and thought it looked neat.  

 

I am not a freak out type and in fact, my middle daughter has a friend who came over for watching a movie and dinner and explained her Tarot business, etc with my polite questions.  I did not confront her nor did my daughter. She knows we are CHristians (she was raised Christian and actually met my daughter through a Christian gathering where she was welcomed where they were making jewelry to raise money for what is now a Christian school opened up in an area here near public housing and where they have lots of scholarships and support-- It is a ministry.  Am I going to go to her for a reading- no.  Am I going to go to the Botanica where the main leader/witch/Yoruba/Santeria priestess is? No but not because I am afraid of her.  More because I am uninterested.  I don't do occult things and I just remember my father, who was Catholic, not allowing us to play with Ouija board or Magic 8 ball.  I don't remember anything specific about restrictions on tarot cards though we may have had that discussion because of us seeing Live and Let Die (the first James Bond I saw and the second PG movie).  Like Carol in CA, my father had looked into Waldorf school for my sister and me. We ended up transferring to the Catholic school. But freak out- no.

 

When my kids were small, we did mostly do things with Christian homeschool groups but not exclusively at all.    Some of them included groups of Christians who believed things we didn't believe.  My son had a good friend who was from a non believing family. One group had a kind of Gothard follower--- the family did the books, and girls wore dresses but they were attending a non Gothardite church, non Gothardite group that even included Greek Orthodox family, and they were super nice and non judgemental so I am not sure exactly how involved they were. 

 

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<snip>

 

As an outside observer, comparing a person with different beliefs to a outspoken racist is .... odd.  Living where I do, I know so many people with different beliefs.  I guess I can understand the "circle the wagons against the evil of most everyone in the USA" is a thing but I didn't realize how widespread it was here.

 

For some people, this is not simply a matter of different beliefs.  I don't have time to do any searching right now, but there are specific commands in the Bible to avoid associations with witches and soothsayers (I think that's the word used).  If a person takes that seriously, they are not going to hang out with someone who tells fortunes.  

 

So I think it would be reasonable to assume that though an individual Christian person might be perfectly happy to befriend people of all faiths and no faith, that same person might shy away from someone he/she perceives as practicing witchcraft/soothsaying.  

 

BTW I've been dumped as a friend by people who didn't like Christians, and in a homeschool group endured much nasty anti-Christian commentary by a self-described "atheist and God-hater." It was an inclusive group,which I had sought out specifically so my kids would not grow up in a Christian bubble. So much for that. And I am a mild-manner Presbyterian; no one in that group would have even known we were Christian if the question hadn't been asked. 

 

And, sure, there are Christians who don't want to associate with the "wrong kind of Christian."   But it's not just a crazy Christian thing. 

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