Racial slurs at U.S. Air Force Academy was a Hoax

[Lanny]

I believe this was in a thread here on WTM when it happened, but I cannot locate that thread (I googled for it).  The supposed incident that caused the General to give that awesome speech to everyone on AFA, was a hoax.  The guilty student has either withdrawn from AFA or been expelled.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/08/air-force-academy-discovers-racial-slurs-were-hoax-months-after-superintendent-lauded-for-tough-speech.html

[shawthorne44]

There have been so many racial slur hoaxes that I automatically don't pay attention to a report of one.  

[Sneezyone]

It wasn’t a hoax to the other students who received those messages and were not involved in the ‘prank’. I’m glad the individual was expelled.

[goldberry]

Awful.  But the article seems to be implying that the media was wrong to cover and praise the speech?  I don't think it changes anything about the speech or the response.  The whole incident was handled appropriately and should be handled that way in the future.

[MarkT]

Maybe it was only a "prank"  but the evidence did not show it as a "hoax" .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoax

 

no matter what Fox News used it's headline.

[goldberry]

There have been so many racial slur hoaxes that I automatically don't pay attention to a report of one.  

 

Lots of people feel the same way about rape and sexual assaults.  SO MANY hoaxes, why even listen?  Better to just start out assuming it's a hoax.  That's a great position for society to operate from, and so useful.

 

Let's just completely ignore the hard numbers that show that hoaxes and false accusations are a surprisingly small percentage in both cases, but because they get more media attention, there must be SO MANY.  

 

Yes, in case you can't tell, I am sick to death of this kind of reasoning.

Edited November 8, 2017 by goldberry

[Dmmetler]

For four of the five students, that was no hoax.

[shawthorne44]

Four of the five victims weren't in on the hoax.   But, it was still a hoax.   This was just worse than most because the norm is for the perpetrator to be the only victim.      

 

When you think on it, Hoaxes are actually a promising sign.  If something like this was likely to happen, then the perpetrator/victim could just wait for it to really happen.   

 

[Laurie]

Earlier this week I read about another hoax (supposedly a Halloween "prank") on a local tv news website.  The incident happened in Kansas (I don't live in Kansas), and I don't know if the original story appeared in our local news or just the story that it turned out to be a hoax. 

 One thing that mad me angry was that the person who wrote the article uses "N Word" for the actual word spray painted on the car.  If the person is going to write  "N Word"  in the story, why then include a video showing the car with all the hateful words shown (N word, F word, etc.) ?   It seems very wrong to me to show all that garbage, whether it turned out to be a hoax or not. 

 

  

Edited November 8, 2017 by Laurie

[Bluegoat]

Lots of people feel the same way about rape and sexual assaults.  SO MANY hoaxes, why even listen?  Better to just start out assuming it's a hoax.  That's a great position for society to operate from, and so useful.

 

Let's just completely ignore the hard numbers that show that hoaxes and false accusations are a surprisingly small percentage in both cases, but because they get more media attention, there must be SO MANY.  

 

Yes, in case you can't tell, I am sick to death of this kind of reasoning.

 

I think there is a difference though between taking these things at face value in more personally close situation, as opposed to big media bro-hahas.  It's the latter where people who are looking to make a splash are going to try and make themselves visible, and in any case you really can't know the details and you have no effect on the situation, nor it on you.

[goldberry]

I think there is a difference though between taking these things at face value in more personally close situation, as opposed to big media bro-hahas.  It's the latter where people who are looking to make a splash are going to try and make themselves visible, and in any case you really can't know the details and you have no effect on the situation, nor it on you.

 

It clearly affects people's perception, the same as the constant reporting of stranger abductions made people more afraid of that unlikely scenario.  There were people in the sexual harassment thread proposing that false accusations outnumbered actual assaults.  There are people who think that there is no racial discrimination in our country and it's all made up by the media.

 

No, when someone says they *automatically* don't pay attention to a report of racial harassment, that's a problem.  Paying attention with a bit of skepticism is normal. Heck, we have to do that with disasters now.  Automatically ignoring something is not.  There were people claiming that the racial harassment after the presidential election was all fabricated.  Anyone who has minority racial or religious friends knows that was not true.  I will not give those kind of comments a pass.  The percentage of "hoaxes" is tiny - TINY - in comparison to actual incidents, and anyone who pretends otherwise is furthering a false agenda.

[goldberry]

 and in any case you really can't know the details and you have no effect on the situation, nor it on you.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  That we can't work to correct problems that don't involve us directly?  Or that those problems shouldn't affect us and how we view and live within society?

[goldberry]

It's this kind of post that is turning this WTM board into a hateful, nasty place to hang out.

 

If it's hateful and nasty to stand up to false claims and people perpetuating them, then so be it.  I don't consider that hateful and nasty.  The poster suggested that there were so many hoaxes that they could be automatically ignored.  I believe that to be a false idea and harmful to perpetuate.

[Lady Florida.]

If it's hateful and nasty to stand up to false claims and people perpetuating them, then so be it.  I don't consider that hateful and nasty.  The poster suggested that there were so many hoaxes that they could be automatically ignored.  I believe that to be a false idea and harmful to perpetuate.

 

I find that to be much more hateful and nasty than pointing out false claims. 

[goldberry]

I'm just not willing to let that particular fallacy pass by unchallenged anymore.  Meaning, the idea that hoaxes and false accusations are somehow comparable to the amount or scale of real incidents.  It is not true.  And it leads to just what Shawthorne stated, people deciding they can just ignore those stories because there is no real problem.  Or the real problems are isolated enough not to cause worry.

 

That is harmful to us as a society.  These problems are real and ignoring them or minimizing them is not the answer.

[Xahm]

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution article is significantly better than the Fox one that was linked. I would link it, but I'm not that good on my phone.

[goldberry]

Silveria responds perfectly:

 

“Regardless of the circumstances under which those words were written, they were written, and that deserved to be addressed,†Silveria said in an email to the Gazette. “You can never over-emphasize the need for a culture of dignity and respect — and those who don’t understand those concepts aren’t welcome here.â€

 

 

[nixpix5]

I'm just not willing to let that particular fallacy pass by unchallenged anymore. Meaning, the idea that hoaxes and false accusations are somehow comparable to the amount or scale of real incidents. It is not true. And it leads to just what Shawthorne stated, people deciding they can just ignore those stories because there is no real problem. Or the real problems are isolated enough not to cause worry.

 

That is harmful to us as a society. These problems are real and ignoring them or minimizing them is not the answer.

I agree that as a society we shouldn't become desensitized to this. We shouldn't but people are only human. I was raped as a teen and was a crusader for many years in this area, then I became a counselor. In the course of the years I have worked as a counselor, I have, no joke, had girls commit false accusations about 1 in 3 times. On their parents, on their partner, you name it. I have also worked with 3 boys who had legitimate false accusations against them and it almost ruined two lives and annihilated one life. So I am much more skeptical now for better or for worse. I don't automatically assume people tell the truth. I don't want to feel this way but my personal statistics have not aligned with the "rarely happens" stats.

[EmseB]

Whenever something like this happens I assume nothing until the perpetrator is found and charged.

 

Good on the USAFA for their handling of the situation.

 

[TravelingChris]

I definitely think the General's words of treating people with dignity and respect should be the standard.  The culprit certainly did not adhere to that standard.  Trying to foment fear, anger, resentment, racial discord, etc, is certainly not treating others with dignity and respect. 

 

As to the amount of hoaxes versus real incidents--  there seem to be a whole lot of hoaxes in the specific area of colleges and dorms and writing on doors, cars, slipping paperwork, etc.  In my state, there have been so-called KKK flyers left about in some neighborhoods and authorities have thought that while they may be work of some white supremacist types, it is doubtful that the papers were left by actual KKK.  So it is completely unknown if the harassing papers are the work of one WS type nut or someone else who just wants to foment trouble.  Are there real racist incidents- yes.  Are there fake ones- yes.  Altogether, college as described by my kids, seem to be more worrisome places nowadays compared to when I went.  More divisions, more distrust, etc.

[goldberry]

. I don't automatically assume people tell the truth.

 

I don't think we can ever assume that.  It's right to keep an open mind about what might be happening.  I just see people going the other direction, and using that to support certain agendas.  There's already people talking about a "flood" of fake hate crimes.  

 

The speech that Silveria gave was direct and inspiring.  Some comments referred to it as "hysterical", as in his "hysterical" reaction was not substantiated.  A measured and direct speech against racism, delivered professionally and without inflammation was "hysterical"?  And just who would choose to call it that, and what would their motives be for framing it like that?  We should be asking ourselves those questions.

[mamajag]

Lots of people feel the same way about rape and sexual assaults.  SO MANY hoaxes, why even listen?  Better to just start out assuming it's a hoax.  That's a great position for society to operate from, and so useful.

 

Let's just completely ignore the hard numbers that show that hoaxes and false accusations are a surprisingly small percentage in both cases, but because they get more media attention, there must be SO MANY.  

 

Yes, in case you can't tell, I am sick to death of this kind of reasoning.

How many have happened since the election? I can't count 4 that got national attention off the top of my head. I don't automatically disbelieve, but I don't automatically believe, either. I do what should be done: I wait for the investigators to do their work and see what the facts are.

 

In both cases, the purported victims should be believed insofar as much as the allegations should be thoroughly and vigorously investigated.

 

The hoaxes aren't bringing light to a problem. They're becoming an excuse to ignore actual incidents, and therefore they should be soundly rebuked.

[8circles]

This isn't what I think of when I think "hoax". The words were written. They shouldn't have been. 

 

The headline makes it seem like the words weren't really written. It's misleading. 

[EmseB]

This isn't what I think of when I think "hoax". The words were written. They shouldn't have been.

 

The headline makes it seem like the words weren't really written. It's misleading.

Doing something to deliberately make people think a hate crime was committed when one was not committed and framing one's self as a victim of said crime is a pretty textbook hoax. Yes, he wrote the words. The whole point of writing them was to commit a hoax.

[KungFuPanda]

It's not a hoax just because the person was caught. It's still a hate crime. Presenting yourself as a victim doesn't make the crime any less hateful. Trying to make a social point or create drama or whatever doesn't make it less criminal. A hoax would be giving the speech if the vandalism never actually happened.

[Xahm]

At first I thought it should have been labeled a prank, but reading another article made me think hoax was correct. Apparently, the perpetrator was in trouble for other, unrelated, infractions around the school. In an attempt to get mercy or distract from wrong doing, he or she made themself out to be a victim of a hate crime. That seems to take it into hoax territory.

[Bluegoat]

I'm not sure what you're saying here.  That we can't work to correct problems that don't involve us directly?  Or that those problems shouldn't affect us and how we view and live within society?

 

I'm saying that when we see and hear about something that is going on in another part of the country, or world, a particular situation, we really have a limited relationship.

 

We are not directly affected, we don't really know the people, we don't know what the culture is like, the situation.  We can guess, but our guesses might be wrong.  We can have an opinion, but we don't have to live with the context or the people.  Our assessment of the situation is limited even without taking into account whatever the media chooses to highlight which is a further distortion.

 

I think how we view and live in society, fundamentally, should be local.  I think that there is generally speaking reason to be very cautious and stand-offish with our relationship to events through media.  In the same way that people can become over-sensitized to violence, or scary things, so you end up with people who feel like having your kids abducted or being broken into and murdered in your bed are common things, people's brains interpret other things they see in the media as if they were personal experiences.  That leads to a heightened response.

 

I's generally the people in a place that are going to have to solve a problem.  I think there is very little advantage to paying a lot of attention to those kinds of news stories where we really have no role. 

 

 

ETA: I think there is a huge difference between being a skeptic about an individual who makes a claim, and a media presentation.  The former needs to be approached in one way, that is sensitive but also looks to discover what happened in ab open way.  The latter is a lot more about the nature of media communications.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Daria]

Doing something to deliberately make people think a hate crime was committed when one was not committed and framing one's self as a victim of said crime is a pretty textbook hoax. Yes, he wrote the words. The whole point of writing them was to commit a hoax.

But a hate crime was committed against 3 people. The fact that the perpetrator was the same race, or that they pretended that they were a victim doesn't change the fact that 3 people were victims.

 

This is like a situation where a bank robber pretends to be his own kidnappings victim and sneaks out with the $. We don't just say "it was a hoax" because the money was still stolen.

[Bluegoat]

I agree that as a society we shouldn't become desensitized to this. We shouldn't but people are only human. I was raped as a teen and was a crusader for many years in this area, then I became a counselor. In the course of the years I have worked as a counselor, I have, no joke, had girls commit false accusations about 1 in 3 times. On their parents, on their partner, you name it. I have also worked with 3 boys who had legitimate false accusations against them and it almost ruined two lives and annihilated one life. So I am much more skeptical now for better or for worse. I don't automatically assume people tell the truth. I don't want to feel this way but my personal statistics have not aligned with the "rarely happens" stats.

 

I've known people who made false allegations.  In those instances, it was pretty much for the same kind of reason people commit the crimes, it's an attempt to assert power over another.  I don't think any one group of people are more prone to that kind of thing than another - and if there is an institutional method to assert power, people who want that will seek it out.

 

It seems like this is also what happened in this hoax.  It was an attempt to gain a power advantage for one individual. I kind of feel like trying to push that tendency under the rug actually creates much more skepticism - people start to wonder if that is what is happening, for political reasons.

[Bluegoat]

But a hate crime was committed against 3 people. The fact that the perpetrator was the same race, or that they pretended that they were a victim doesn't change the fact that 3 people were victims.

 

This is like a situation where a bank robber pretends to be his own kidnappings victim and sneaks out with the $. We don't just say "it was a hoax" because the money was still stolen.

 

Yeah, actually I would say that is a hoax.  And a robbery.

 

In this case, it wasn't a hate crime as that is really a category that deals with motivation.  

Edited November 9, 2017 by Bluegoat

[EmseB]

But a hate crime was committed against 3 people. The fact that the perpetrator was the same race, or that they pretended that they were a victim doesn't change the fact that 3 people were victims.

 

This is like a situation where a bank robber pretends to be his own kidnappings victim and sneaks out with the $. We don't just say "it was a hoax" because the money was still stolen.

 

 

In your example, I would say that the bank robber used a hoax in order to commit a bank robbery.  His intention was stealing the money.  In the case at USAFA the perpetrator's intention was to fake a hate crime. To what end, who knows?

 

He should absolutely be held to account for the damage he caused to the people who thought a rogue racist was roaming USAFA and felt free enough to write epithets on people's dorms. Just because something is a hoax doesn't mean that it didn't hurt actual people.  To the contrary, this was actually very damaging to a lot of people on several different levels. Those three people were victims of a hoax, not a hate crime.

 

It matters, legally, when prosecuting these cases what the motivation actually was, specifically when you're talking about hate crimes.  The whole notion of a hate crime hinges on motivation when committing the act.  The motivation in this case was to lead a lot of people to believe something that wasn't true by doing something egregious.

Edited November 9, 2017 by EmseB

[nixpix5]

I've known people who made false allegations. In those instances, it was pretty much for the same kind of reason people commit the crimes, it's an attempt to assert power over another. I don't think any one group of people are more prone to that kind of thing than another - and if there is an institutional method to assert power, people who want that will seek it out.

 

It seems like this is also what happened in this hoax. It was an attempt to gain a power advantage for one individual. I kind of feel like trying to push that tendency under the rug actually creates much more skepticism - people start to wonder if that is what is happening, for political reasons.

This is so true and such a good point. In the cases I worked with when it was false allegations of rape it was for two main reasons 1. The girl consented but didn't want anyone to know she did and 2. Or the guy didn't want to have a relationship with her and it was to destroy his character, his future, or his current relationship. I had girls who knew all the right language and how to act like a victim. Their was no remorse on their part and I was convinced they had been victimized. I had no reason not to. I was especially vulnerable to the deceit because I myself had been victimized. I remember feeling victimized myself upon finding out the first few times the girls were lying because they were making light of an experience that had robbed me of my own emotional security for years. Someone claiming they are victimized when they are not does feel like a hoax to me. They are trying, like you said, to wield power and outcomes. It is gross and does damage to a country as a whole. Their are implications.

 

I hear a couple different narratives lately though. Due to sensationalized news I hear how crime in America is out of control and you would think people are being raped, assaulted and shot left and right. However, when you look at the statistics, the US has never been safer since the 60s. We are at an all time low in theft, murder, assault, rape. So I do wish the news would stay responsible and even handed when reporting. It ignites people who believe the US is going off the rails. This type of hype is how Hitler came to power and we need to be careful and responsible as a country how we digest this type of news.

[Dmmetler]

It still made those students feel unsafe and unwanted. And that was the reaction that the person was counting on who did it.

 

The fact that he was of the same race and painted himself as a victim is immaterial. To the kids who woke up and found racial epithets on their doors in what should be a safe space it felt the same.

 

I am very comfortable with expelling this student. Such behavior, regardless of intent, is not acceptable.

[Bluegoat]

I'd almost be more inclined to expel him.  In the former case, it's not impossible he could be re-educated, so to speak, depending on the person.  But this to me speaks to a greater ability to manipulate, and a greater level of cynicism.  

[EmseB]

It still made those students feel unsafe and unwanted. And that was the reaction that the person was counting on who did it.

 

The fact that he was of the same race and painted himself as a victim is immaterial. To the kids who woke up and found racial epithets on their doors in what should be a safe space it felt the same.

 

I am very comfortable with expelling this student. Such behavior, regardless of intent, is not acceptable.

 

I am not saying it didn't make them feel unsafe, in fact, it probably made them probably terrified.  My point was that the person's motivation and intent is exactly what makes something a hate crime versus a hoax versus bullying versus any other kind of crime. The whole reason we have definitions for these things is so that people can be accurately prosecuted. And equating a hoaxed hate crime with an actual hate crime muddies the waters when people who are really racist really do those sorts of things in order to really threaten someone.  Which is why hoaxes of such things are really bad.  See the second reply in this thread.  Saying someone committed a hoax is not an attempt at minimizing what happened or saying that it didn't happen or saying that there weren't real victims.

 

Some people seem to equate that saying something was a hoax means I'm saying it didn't happen or cause damage or hurt people.  That's not what that word means. Hoaxes can and do cause real damages (see the previous bank robbery example).

 

I think expulsion is the most appropriate course of action, but I'm not sure of his status as a cadet to begin with.  If he was AD, I'd say a dishonorable discharge.

[poppy]

I'm curious if the OP ever posts in outrage about non-hoax racial injustices.

[Catwoman]

I'm curious if the OP ever posts in outrage about non-hoax racial injustices.

 

Lanny's only post to this thread was his OP, and it seemed to me that he was interested in hearing what other people thought about the topic.

 

I don't see any "outrage" at all in his post.

 

I believe this was in a thread here on WTM when it happened, but I cannot locate that thread (I googled for it). The supposed incident that caused the General to give that awesome speech to everyone on AFA, was a hoax. The guilty student has either withdrawn from AFA or been expelled.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/08/air-force-academy-discovers-racial-slurs-were-hoax-months-after-superintendent-lauded-for-tough-speech.html

Edited November 9, 2017 by Catwoman

[Bluegoat]

Is it actually a CRIME though?

 

Does writing "Go Home N-word" constitute a CRIME?

 

Well, it's vandalism, I'd think.

[Lanny]

Lanny's only post to this thread was his OP, and it seemed to me that he was interested in hearing what other people thought about the topic.

 

I don't see any "outrage" at all in his post.

 

 

Yes, I am interested in what other people thought about that.

 

That one of the supposed victims was the perpetrator, seems to have become increasingly common recently, with regard to this, to the 2 Hawaiian women on the Sailboat, etc.  I am angry as hell about that. There are enough truly bad things going on in the world, without people claiming to have been the victim of something that didn't occur. 

 

The Commander of AFA responded, swiftly, with an outstanding message to the students and staff at AFA.  It never occurred to him that this was a hoax and he responded assuming that this was true.

I believe that all Americans should be proud of that General, for the way he reacted, because he believed it was true. 

[EmseB]

Is it actually a CRIME though?

 

Does writing "Go Home N-word" constitute a CRIME?

No, probably not in civilian life. I was using it in the sense of the motivation of the perpetrator. But, it probably violates some academy code of conduct at the very least.

[Bluegoat]

I thought they were written on dry erase boards....with the dry erase markers on the boards?

 

Oh, then no.  For some reason I thought they were written on doors?

 

Probably not a crime then, but I'm sure against the rules of the institution.

[Lanny]

My concern about all of the hoaxes is that when someone is truly a victim, people may doubt their honesty.. One of my youngest cousins was kidnapped and raped (she was in the parking lot of a Community College in So CA).  It would be more than sad, if victims like her are doubted, because there are so many hoaxes.

 

 

 

 

[shawthorne44]

....

I believe that all Americans should be proud of that General, for the way he reacted, because he believed it was true. 

 

I am.   

[Catwoman]

My concern about all of the hoaxes is that when someone is truly a victim, people may doubt their honesty.. One of my youngest cousins was kidnapped and raped (she was in the parking lot of a Community College in So CA). It would be more than sad, if victims like her are doubted, because there are so many hoaxes.

I'm so sorry to hear about your cousin, Lanny. That's just awful. :crying:

[KungFuPanda]

My concern about all of the hoaxes is that when someone is truly a victim, people may doubt their honesty.. One of my youngest cousins was kidnapped and raped (she was in the parking lot of a Community College in So CA). It would be more than sad, if victims like her are doubted, because there are so many hoaxes.

There were still several victims. The only thing vaguely hoax-like was that the perpetrator wasn’t really one of them. I don’t think the nuances of intent matters when you choose to do something this hateful.

 

I don’t think this kid is doomed or all bad. That age group is huge on deflecting blame for their own shortcomings and they can get really creative about their own self-protection. He/She made a huge mistake that’s going to have serious consequences. I’m curious to know if the kid was able to feel responsible in the end.

[Bluegoat]

There were still several victims. The only thing vaguely hoax-like was that the perpetrator wasn’t really one of them. I don’t think the nuances of intent matters when you choose to do something this hateful.

 

I don’t think this kid is doomed or all bad. That age group is huge on deflecting blame for their own shortcomings and they can get really creative about their own self-protection. He/She made a huge mistake that’s going to have serious consequences. I’m curious to know if the kid was able to feel responsible in the end.

 

It was a hoax because the kid didn't in fact hate black persons, which is the meaning of calling it a hate crime.  He purposefully faked a hate crime for completely different purposes.

 

Intent is the whole point of the designation of "hate crime".  Which is why some people don't like that such a category exists - they feel the intent of crime isn't that important, compared to the effect.

[KungFuPanda]

It was a hoax because the kid didn't in fact hate black persons, which is the meaning of calling it a hate crime. He purposefully faked a hate crime for completely different purposes.

Intent is the whole point of the designation of "hate crime". Which is why some people don't like that such a category exists - they feel the intent of crime isn't that important, compared to the effect.

That might be true, but anyone who lives in a military environment for more than 5 minutes knows that civilians can get away with things that you can’t. I don’t know if UCMJ has any jurisdiction in an Academy situation with the students, but they all know they’re held to higher and different standards. The victims were just as victimized and I’m not sure the intent makes it better for them.

 

ETA: I’m kinda glad for the kid’s sake that there is a legal distinction. He’s probably facing enough consequences for this.

Edited November 10, 2017 by KungFuPanda

[tampamommy]

Just to clarify a few things that have come up:

 

1. Indeed, the student who wrote the racist slurs was not a USAFA cadet. He was a student at the USAFA Prep School (a "preppie").

 

2. Every cadet and/or preppie that I know -- or that my children know--or that their friends know--was outraged that the incident occurred and sees no place for any such attitudes/behavior at the prep school, the Academy, the AF, or our country. Likewise, they all think General Silveria handled it in an outstanding manner.

 

3. The actual incident occurred, was immediately and strictly dealt with, and properly investigated. I am sure that the other preppies who were affected have been offered any type of support they might want/need, by the administrators of the prep school.

 

4. The fact that the incident was "staged" by a preppie does indeed make it a hoax: "something intended to deceive or defraud."

 

I agree with Lanny that the General, the AF, the AFA and the prep school deserve kudos for their swift and intolerant response.

[Carol in Cal.]

1.  The preppie did this to make it seem like there was a rash of anti-Black written aggression on campus due to racism from other nationalities or races.  

2.  That was not true.

3.  Hence it was a hoax.

 

Obviously.

[EmseB]

Another reason to distinguish between an actual hate crime vs. a hoax incident is because the number of hate crimes or racist incidents (or whatever you want to call it) every year on a campus or in a town tells us something very different about the climate of the setting than the number of faked hate crimes every year.

 

This is true despite the fact that the victims' feelings are very much identical in both situations, even if the incidents are in different categories. Which is why both types of incidents should be taken seriously.