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Just Venting - Non-Committal HS'ers...is it just my area?


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Hi all..this is part vent and part curiosity as to whether other folks are experiencing the same thing.

Flashback to a year ago. I planned a homeschooler get together at our local science museum through a local, active homeschooling Facebook group.  Out of the TEN people that committed as "definitely going" ONE person showed up (and I don't think they were even on the "going" list..I think they were on the "maybe" list and decided to come last minute).  There weren't any last minute, "Sorry we can't make it." the morning of or even any, "So sorry we missed it!" afterwards.  Nothing.  Folks just didn't show up and didn't bother letting me know.

Flash foreword to a couple of days ago.  Against my better judgement I planned another outing to a children's museum that is about an hour away.  Same group of homeschoolers.  I first asked if there was interest.  Oh yes..lots of interest!  I then asked which date was best..everyone agreed on said date and I officially put it up on the calendar.  I bumped the event and posted to remind everyone that it was coming up.  I messaged the folks on the "definitely going" and "maybe" list the day before and asked them to check in by the morning to confirm they were still coming so I knew who to look for.  I sent out my cell phone number so that if something happened last minute or someone was late they could give me a call.  Out of the four families that were "definitely coming" once again ONE showed up (2 hours after the planned meet up time).  Nobody chimed in on the FB group or called my cell phone the morning of to say they couldn't make it.  

WTF?  Ten years ago when I was just starting out with my now 15 year old son people planned things and if someone signed up and couldn't make it for the most part they were courteous enough to let the host/organizer know.  

Am I the only one living in the land of uncommittal, flaky homeschoolers?!

Signed, 

Baffled in Buffalo

 

 

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Hi all..this is part vent and part curiosity as to whether other folks are experiencing the same thing.

 

Flashback to a year ago. I planned a homeschooler get together at our local science museum through a local, active homeschooling Facebook group. Out of the TEN people that committed as "definitely going" ONE person showed up (and I don't think they were even on the "going" list..I think they were on the "maybe" list and decided to come last minute). There weren't any last minute, "Sorry we can't make it." the morning of or even any, "So sorry we missed it!" afterwards. Nothing. Folks just didn't show up and didn't bother letting me know.

 

Flash foreword to a couple of days ago. Against my better judgement I planned another outing to a children's museum that is about an hour away. Same group of homeschoolers. I first asked if there was interest. Oh yes..lots of interest! I then asked which date was best..everyone agreed on said date and I officially put it up on the calendar. I bumped the event and posted to remind everyone that it was coming up. I messaged the folks on the "definitely going" and "maybe" list the day before and asked them to check in by the morning to confirm they were still coming so I knew who to look for. I sent out my cell phone number so that if something happened last minute or someone was late they could give me a call. Out of the four families that were "definitely coming" once again ONE showed up (2 hours after the planned meet up time). Nobody chimed in on the FB group or called my cell phone the morning of to say they couldn't make it.

 

WTF? Ten years ago when I was just starting out with my now 15 year old son people planned things and if someone signed up and couldn't make it for the most part they were courteous enough to let the host/organizer know.

 

Am I the only one living in the land of uncommittal, flaky homeschoolers?!

 

Signed,

 

Baffled in Buffalo

 

 

 

 

I think this is somewhat a homeschooler thing and somewhat a Facebook thing as well. Facebook events can be hard to find after you've committed and there's something about the nature of Facebook that makes people check going without giving it the same thought process as an actual paper or email invitation. That said it is definitely a homeschooler thing for some as well.

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I plan field trips for our co-op and one thing I've learned is to get there money rather than there yes. If they've paid they show up. Also I always say non refundable to make sure people don't try and pay then back out. Many places I can get a refund so if someone gets sick or has an emergency come up I do my best to get them a refund but if you let people think from the start they can back out they will. I think most people now a days have busy lives and often have to choose between A or B so commitment is a big issue. As I said though if they have money paid out already for it then they will show up. It was already budgeted and paid for and if they don't go they will have paid for nothing. 

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The very first field trip I went on as a homeschooler was in San Diego in 1982. My friend organized it: a 4-hour, behind-the-scene tour of the San Diego Zoo. She got verbal "commitments" from enough people to do the tour (probably 20 bodies). At least half didn't show up, and it turned out that we paid for 20 whether we had 20 or not, and it was more than $10 per person. Ouch.

 

My solution is simple: people pay in advance, by a deadline, and I don't give refunds. I charge for all activities that require any sort of interaction with the place we're going to, even if there is no actual charge. I put the details out there, people pay by the deadline or they don't. If there's a minimum number of bodies required and we don't meet that minimum by the deadline (and I mean that if I don't have all the money in my hand by the deadline), I cancel (and then I give refunds to those who paid). No phone calls, no e-mail reminders, no texting, nothing. All I want is the money, by the deadline.

 

Oh, and if people don't show up on time, we go in without them. No mercy.

 

A friend wanted to organize a tour of a wildlife place. It was free. She brought it up at a Moms' Night Out, and all the attendees thought it was great, and she left the meeting with the names of almost 40 people (children and adults). The wildlife place added one or two extra docents because she said so many people would be coming...and it turned out to be my friend, her son, and one other adult and child. When she told me about it, she said that she used to think I was really hardnosed for requiring payment by deadlines and whatnot, until this happened.

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WeĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ve seen it happen a lot. ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s irritating and embarrassing and doesnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t make homeschoolers look good.

 

We now require payment in advance for all trips. If a trip is free, we still charge a few dollars per family. We set up a PayPal button for each event and also allow cash or check payments, but the PayPal button has REALLY helped people pay promptly. We really havenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t had a problem with people flaking out since we started doing that. Once in a while it happens, or someone gets sick, but having already paid something does seem to get people to stick to showing up.

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Oh, Yes! 

 

Set up a free field trip, lots will sign up, you *may* get 50% attendance. You may get a couple of apologies but probably not.

 

So, yes, our group charges for free field trips. If you actually show up, you get your money back, otherwise, we keep it. 

 

And collect money early. And make sure that people know it is *their* responsibility to get the money to you by the deadline - not the organizer's responsibility to track the attendees down to get their money. 

 

I don't know if people just don't pay attention, mark their calendars, don't care, are just that flaky or what - but it is annoying. 

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We don't generally have this problem, though once we did, and I remember just one family and I being at a place that 18 had signed up for. That was a week of the flu outbreak though. We had just gotten over it, and it was bad, so I understood. Our homeschool group has monthly field trips and generally we have good turn out. We had 50 signed up for our last free trip to a local TV news station, and I think there were 40 that showed. The others that didn't come were things like a sick family and a couple of parents that ended up sending their kids with someone else, so we lost the adults that were in the original count. 

 

We are a co-op that meets weekly though and we also have other events monthly like an extra kids' day for fun and a teen night, so we are in general a group that meets and has a relationship, maybe that is the difference? Are all of these cancelers people just from online, or do you all meet together regularly? 

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Our homeschool group has basically stopped organizing anything that involves money.  We will host parents nights at people's houses and park days/games days and that's about it.  

 

We find that people clamor for activities (both ones they can do with their kids and ones that the parents can attend for support without their kids) and are theoretically going to attend but then no one shows up.  We try to make things accessible by making sure we offer daytime and evening activities in various parts of the city and changing the day of the week on occasion and we even offer free snacks and drinks but so often only a small core shows up.

 

 At least we can say we tried. 

 

As have you.

 

 

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I plan field trips for our co-op and one thing I've learned is to get there money rather than there yes. If they've paid they show up. Also I always say non refundable to make sure people don't try and pay then back out. Many places I can get a refund so if someone gets sick or has an emergency come up I do my best to get them a refund but if you let people think from the start they can back out they will. I think most people now a days have busy lives and often have to choose between A or B so commitment is a big issue. As I said though if they have money paid out already for it then they will show up. It was already budgeted and paid for and if they don't go they will have paid for nothing. 

 

This.  

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Our homeschool group has basically stopped organizing anything that involves money.  We will host parents nights at people's houses and park days/games days and that's about it.  

 

We find that people clamor for activities (both ones they can do with their kids and ones that the parents can attend for support without their kids) and are theoretically going to attend but then no one shows up.  We try to make things accessible by making sure we offer daytime and evening activities in various parts of the city and changing the day of the week on occasion and we even offer free snacks and drinks but so often only a small core shows up.

 

 At least we can say we tried. 

 

As have you.

 

And that's why you charge for activities. Even if it's only $1 per person, the fact that they had to put money out there makes the event not only more desirable than a free event but it also motivates people to actually show up. Go figure.

 

Nevertheless, there's nothing wrong with a support group only hosting parents' nights or park days/games days. In fact, those are the first and most important things that a support group should do, IMHO.

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I think it's getting worse, but I think it's always been like this among homeschoolers.  I learned my lesson a few times about paying for a group field trip upfront.  Eventually I required checks to be mailed to me.  If you didn't show you lost your money.  You could find a replacement.  It helped me plan larger field trip events by collecting money up front.  People show up when they have money involved.  

 

Otherwise I plan to do something I would want to do and if no one shows up oh well.  No big deal.  

 

I noticed that people want to do things, but many have anxiety and others just can't get it together to get out the door on time.  Even asking people to send you $1 per person for the event helps.  They mail in a few bucks and if they show up, they get it back.  If not, you get it.  Seriously, people are tied to their money.  

Keep going, keep planning, but just realize if there is nothing tied to this event they might all flake out.  

I reserved tickets for broadway shows this year not understanding when I did so I was committing to paying the money.  It had been worded that IF we got the tickets.  Well I can't afford Broadway shows monthly for my family, so when I was being emailed how much money I owed I had to rethink committing.  I wasn't the only one.  Several emails have gone out about this was a commitment.  I ended up asking to be removed from all shows but one next summer.  I felt bad but I was not understanding that committing was set in stone even though the tickets wouldn't be reserved/purchased until later.    So be clear if there is a cost and collect beforehand.  You can always return if it things change.  

 

 

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Evidently this is pretty common in my area too.  We have a local Facebook group that is just for field trips and activities.  The mom who posts most of the field trips posted about 6 weeks ago that nobody will be considered a yes RSVP until they paid, and if enough people haven't paid by a certain deadline, the trip would be cancelled.  It appeared that she got burned a couple times.  More recently I've seen her post about cancelling field trips a few times.  It's kind of sad.

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I think this is somewhat a homeschooler thing and somewhat a Facebook thing as well. Facebook events can be hard to find after you've committed and there's something about the nature of Facebook that makes people check going without giving it the same thought process as an actual paper or email invitation. That said it is definitely a homeschooler thing for some as well.

 

I feel like Facebook sends me a million reminders about every event I've expressed any interest in at all.  Some even if I didn't check "Interested" or "Going" or "Maybe" or anything at all (so I didn't answer No either), I continue to get reminders right up until the day of.

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It's very common.  A lot of people I know all around the country have made it so people pay in advance for a field trip that costs and if they don't show, too bad, they are out the money (unless there's some real emergency like getting the flu) and they have to pay to hold their spots for free field trips and get the money back only if they show up.  PayPal has made doing that pretty easy.  It really ups the people who show up.

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It's definitely common where I live. I only plan field trips with one friend who never commits unless she is positive she is going, and is always reliable (and not just on time, but early!). Better to plan for a small field trip from the get-go than be disappointed in others who don't show. 

 

 

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I just had a field trip today with a minimum required number of people. Two cancelled last minute (at least they emailed me) and then a third just no-showed, which dropped us below the number required for the tour. I was scolded, but then we were allowed to go on the tour after all "since we have a spot reserved for you and the tour guide is here." 

 

The flaky no-shows didn't bother me half as much as the parents who let their kids climb up the exterior of the building. It's a freaking historical building, not a climbing wall - what in the world?! 

 

Stuff like this makes homeschoolers look terrible. I'm at the point where I only organize field trips when it's something that has to be done as a group. Otherwise, I just take my own family and we enjoy it alone.

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Yes, for sure. I just started scheduling things again after a long hiatus and am doing it totally different. I hate being a hard a** but I'm also not going to let people take advantage of me. I spend enough time and money planning and organizing, if people want to participate they follow the rules. The thing is if people really want to participate they will find a way to come up with the money and actually commit and if they don't it really isn't that important. 

 

Most people I've dealt with are great, I think b/c people around here really are desperate for activities but of course, there are always those who think rules don't apply to them or don't read the rules.  I've had great turn-out to our free events, 30-60 people. I was going to require a small deposit for free events but decided to see how it went and it has worked. 

 

For anything requiring money, I require payment before registration and have held to deadlines. No refunds and no one has even asked. No waiting for people who are late. 

 

*ETA- Anything requiring a certain number requires a hard commitment but mostly I've stuck to things that are not so structured as I wasn't sure what kind of commitment I'd get from people.

Edited by soror
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I wonder why this is, when homeschoolers are the group of people shouldering complete responsibility for their children's education? One would think they'd be the most reliable people...

 

Edited because spelling.

 

Are they "shouldering complete responsibility for their children's education" or are they free-spirits who feel comfortable walking their own path outside of traditional school? I see a lot more free-spirit types locally - especially among those homeschooling younger kids. 

 

If they don't feel like going on a field trip today . . . well, isn't that the reason they homeschool? So they can have the freedom to do whatever feels best in the moment?

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WeĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ve seen it happen a lot. ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s irritating and embarrassing and doesnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t make homeschoolers look good.

 

We now require payment in advance for all trips. If a trip is free, we still charge a few dollars per family. We set up a PayPal button for each event and also allow cash or check payments, but the PayPal button has REALLY helped people pay promptly. We really havenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t had a problem with people flaking out since we started doing that. Once in a while it happens, or someone gets sick, but having already paid something does seem to get people to stick to showing up.

I love that paypal button for the co-op trips!

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Paying for field trips and capping the size of the group seems to work around here.  Also being very clear about expectations (ex. is it one where parents must drop off unless they are pre-arranged as a chaparone, or must parents stay.  What are ages/grades for the event?  Are younger siblings allowed?)  Payment is done by Paypal and payment is the reservation, not a "me too" on FB.

 

However, I'll say that it isn't just homeschoolers.  I see similar lack of commitment within scouts and other activities. After one spectacular Model UN no show by half the students at one school, our league started charging $10 per person for registration.  No money, no country assignment.  The host school usually provides pizza for lunch and refunds $5 at the end of the conference.  Leaving early or no showing forfeits the money.  

 

With scouts, I see families who won't decide if they are going on a campout until the day of.  As in they won't pay and make a commitment even the meeting a couple days before the event.  For summer camp a couple years ago, we had three scouts from two different families who asked for refunds within 2 weeks of attending.  Council has since made a policy that there are only refunds if requested 30 days before the event.  Otherwise they have supplies and food ordered that they can't return.  We make the deadline for refunds abundantly clear with sign ups.

 

 

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Are they "shouldering complete responsibility for their children's education" or are they free-spirits who feel comfortable walking their own path outside of traditional school? I see a lot more free-spirit types locally - especially among those homeschooling younger kids. 

 

If they don't feel like going on a field trip today . . . well, isn't that the reason they homeschool? So they can have the freedom to do whatever feels best in the moment?

 

And this may be true, but part of being a responsible adult person is following through with commitments. If they want that much freedom, then they shouldn't "commit" to things.

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I think the other thing is homeschooling is actually pretty busy and hard. Sometimes people are flaky because they can't be bothered but sometimes they are probably just overwhelmed with the reality of life. Also there's a higher percentage of kids with various learning difficulties and potentially some of them are genetic so maybe a higher percentage of parents with some kind of executive function skill deficit.

 

If I've said I'll be there I will and I will pay on time but I have three nt kids and sometimes it just about kills me. I can imagine in larger or special needs families sometime life might just get in the way.

 

I agree though - if it costs you personally, make it payment up front or don't attend. If it's just a park day it's not such a big deal.

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I thought this was just a local phenomenon! We live on the west coast right now and I figured being flakey was just part of the "granola culture" people joke about. When I was growing up in the Midwest my mom was a scout and 4-H leader and I don't remember nearly the headaches and neither does she. Maybe it's more of the times and broad culture (with social media having a big hand in it) than a location though.

 

For a few years I had maintained a Facebook account to keep up with the local groups and even try to put together some things. I gave up on it a year ago and don't miss it at all. I don't miss people who are late because they lost track of time on their phone, or people "forgot" because the app didn't remind them (use a calendar!), or people that spend 8 hours a day cruising their feeds and then complain about their kid's behavior and the fact that they aren't learning anything, or conversations that start off with, "did you see what I posted on Facebook?", or "Why haven't you liked/commented on...?", or "Oh, we have to get a photo for Facebook!" (Instead of, what a fun day, let's get a photo to remember). And, I get that homeschooling can be hard financially but I got sick of trying to constantly sort out whether people were looking to genuinely make friends or sell/recruit for their MLM business.

 

But even beyond that we have largely stopped looking to specifically do things with other homeschoolers and switching from the daytime homeschool version of an activity to the evening version that has a mix has been overwhelmingly positive or at least more positive. I never would have guessed that it would be that way but it is, even with people in general being more flakey than in my childhood years and the other issues that come up. It is really too bad.

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I think the other thing is homeschooling is actually pretty busy and hard. Sometimes people are flaky because they can't be bothered but sometimes they are probably just overwhelmed with the reality of life. Also there's a higher percentage of kids with various learning difficulties and potentially some of them are genetic so maybe a higher percentage of parents with some kind of executive function skill deficit.

 

If I've said I'll be there I will and I will pay on time but I have three nt kids and sometimes it just about kills me. I can imagine in larger or special needs families sometime life might just get in the way.

 

I agree though - if it costs you personally, make it payment up front or don't attend. If it's just a park day it's not such a big deal.

HS'ing is a busy and hard job but the hs moms leading and organizing events are busy too. We're also hs'ing. As with any group, it is often the case that 10% of people do 90% of the work. It is not just Moms with special needs kids that have trouble committing or flaking out, it is generally just "regular" hs Moms.

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Are they "shouldering complete responsibility for their children's education" or are they free-spirits who feel comfortable walking their own path outside of traditional school? I see a lot more free-spirit types locally - especially among those homeschooling younger kids. 

 

If they don't feel like going on a field trip today . . . well, isn't that the reason they homeschool? So they can have the freedom to do whatever feels best in the moment?

 

This is just making me laugh today, especially the mildly snarky last line, perhaps because it reminds me of a few times my (otherwise very thoughtful) unschooling friends have told me they won't be able to make something because, at the last moment, it turns out their kids aren't in the mood, or had stayed up too late the night before and wanted to sleep in. I love free spirits, and I love doing whatever feels best in the moment, but it's really not that hard to just RSVP 'no' and go on your own field trips when you're in the mood if you know you're kind of flaky, or only attend loosey-goosey events. (And even those can be disappointing; Park Day is discouraging here when the general idea is 'come if you feel like it', because as it turns out, few people want to come if there's no assurance that it's going to be a good-sized group with kids who are actually older than 5 or 6.)

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HS'ing is a busy and hard job but the hs moms leading and organizing events are busy too. We're also hs'ing. As with any group, it is often the case that 10% of people do 90% of the work. It is not just Moms with special needs kids that have trouble committing or flaking out, it is generally just "regular" hs Moms.

I'm not justifying it at all. It's still wrong. I just don't like to think that homeschoolers are inherently flakier than other families. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

I think people in general are flakier these days.

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I think the other thing is homeschooling is actually pretty busy and hard. Sometimes people are flaky because they can't be bothered but sometimes they are probably just overwhelmed with the reality of life. Also there's a higher percentage of kids with various learning difficulties and potentially some of them are genetic so maybe a higher percentage of parents with some kind of executive function skill deficit.

 

If I've said I'll be there I will and I will pay on time but I have three nt kids and sometimes it just about kills me. I can imagine in larger or special needs families sometime life might just get in the way.

 

I agree though - if it costs you personally, make it payment up front or don't attend. If it's just a park day it's not such a big deal.

I understand..but really how long and how much effort does it take to chime in or call and say, "You know what we can't make it today after all." especially after reminders and requests for a "who's still coming?" update are sent out. I am absolutely guilty of backing out last minute on events but I ALWAYS let the host know and I always pay regardless.  Thankfully this was a pay for yourself when you get there event so I didn't lose out on any money but like I said, our destination was to a children's museum an hour away..if I had known we were going to be walking around by ourselves with no friends to talk to or play with I would have just waited until my husband was on vacation and gone as a family.

 

There's life getting in the way and then there's thoughtless and rude and based on the replies here it seems like there is a thoughtless and rude epidemic currently ravaging the homeschooling community, lol.

Edited by JennSnow
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I understand..but really how long and how much effort does it take to chime in or call and say, "You know what we can't make it today after all." especially after reminders and requests for a "who's still coming?" update are sent out. I am absolutely guilty of backing out last minute on events but I ALWAYS let the host know and I always pay regardless. Thankfully this was a pay for yourself when you get there event so I didn't lose out on any money but like I said, our destination was to a children's museum an hour away..if I had known we were going to be walking around by ourselves with no friends to talk to or play with I would have just waited until my husband was on vacation and gone as a family.

 

There's life getting in the way and then there's thoughtless and rude and based on the replies here it seems like there is a thoughtless and rude epidemic currently ravaging the homeschooling community, lol.

Yeah I agree. People need to commit and communicate.

 

I'm obviously not explaining myself well.

 

I just think that flakiness is there with public school parents too but it somewhat masked by the inherent structure of school. If you have to get your kid a certain place every day and you have mental space from kids its more likely that you are going to have them at the right place and time because you already have that inbuilt routine.

 

I also think there's an epidemic of flakiness not related to homeschooling at all. I don't know if it's people being busier or some kind of cultural change that makes it suddenly OK to not turn up or something else altogether. I just think that the challenges of homeschooling accentuates the general epidemic of flakiness.

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Wow, all of these stories make me feel fortunate for my ultra dependable "it takes a village" group of wonderful homeschooling mamas. This hasn't been my experience at all but I am super picky about who I keep in my close circle. I cannot handle flakey people or people who don't have any behavior expectations on their kids. A lack of boundaries with their children often trigger a warning to me that they themselves lack boundaries which often leads to flakey behavior. I have zero tolerance for that unless they are in my counseling office seeking help for it.

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I have a few non-flaky homeschooler friends, but the rest drive me crazy.

 

I am required to plan one field trip per year for our co-op. This year I decided to plan a free field trip that I would have been happy to do with my own kids by ourselves. If no one showed up, it wouldnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t matter because I would just do it with my own kids. That plan helped me a lot because I didnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t care too much when many of the committed families flaked out. My kids and I had a great day and a useful, educational outing despite what the rest of our Ă¢â‚¬Å“friendsĂ¢â‚¬ did.

 

Honestly I prefer to spend time with the families of our travel club teams. We all have to pay $800-$1200 per season just for fees. No question everyone shows up for everything, and they arrive early!

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I also hold dual citizenship in Flaky Land.  Nowadays I rarely organize anything for the general homeschooling public.  I invite families I know well to be reliable and low maintenance.  They also happen to be my kids' friends.   

 

I think unreliable families end up not being invited to future events, and they wonder why there aren't more trips organized for them.  

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We don't do a lot of group field trips, but once we were invited by a family (that we didn't really know) to an event at a state park, an hour away. We showed up at the arranged time and waited. And waited. The EVENT ORGANIZER and her kids were an hour late (and acted like it was no big deal). I was so annoyed.

Edited by alisoncooks
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The very first field trip I went on as a homeschooler was in San Diego in 1982. My friend organized it: a 4-hour, behind-the-scene tour of the San Diego Zoo. She got verbal "commitments" from enough people to do the tour (probably 20 bodies). At least half didn't show up, and it turned out that we paid for 20 whether we had 20 or not, and it was more than $10 per person. Ouch.

 

 

Totally off topic but just wanted to say we just moved to San Diego, and it's a good thing that didn't happen today, because now they would have been out around $50 per person (ok, with group rates, I'm sure less...but still!). 

 

 

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In donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t find this to be homeschoolers but people in general. Many many people take advantage of planners and just ride along without ever taking notice to a he havoc they cause because commitment means nothing. And IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m tired of people saying itĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s because they are just too busy. I homeschool, run a medium sized construction company, have a farm, and live 70 miles from a grocery store! So I know IĂ¢â‚¬â„¢m as busy as the average person!

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