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When to throw in the towel in online class...

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DD is in two online classes at Wilson Hill - Geometry and Physics (H). She has been buried alive in geometry and can’t get herself out of the hole. I’m having to watch the lessons and teach her from the lessons. She’s doing badly on the quizzes and tests and she’s stressed and so am I. Physics is tough but the pace is more manageable. She probably should have been in the regular level but I assume it’s too late to change. She’s holding her own but I don’t know for how long. Our other subjects are suffering too because we’re cknsrantly playing catch up with math and science and there’s no energy left for the others.

 

Now, this is my kid who is lazy and wants to do things her way. She didn’t put much effort in at the beginning. She came out of school so she knows how to do nightly math homework and did it (albeit with some gnashing of teeth) on time. That discipline didn’t transfer to online classes. She’s spent after 90 minutes of class. Actually, she’s gone after 45 minutes but the 90 minutes puts her over the edge so she’s no good for anything else.

 

So, what in the world do we do?? I cannot teach physics. No way. No how. I could possibly do the geometry, especially if I maintain the class and watch the lectures myself. I cannot seem to think of any really good solutions. Please give me some advice. We have reached out to the geometry teacher and her recommendation is to ask questions on the discussion board but dd doesn’t know what to ask and gets lost in written replies. We tried a tutor this week and could continue that I suppose. I think this is lore a problem of pace than material (geometry).

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Could your geometry tutor also tutor her for physics? How much time is she spending per weekday on geometry and on physics?

 

I would pull for geometry and use a tutor if your daughter works better for someone else. You could still help her with the work but someone else is the bad guy assigning the work and quizzes. Also it is easier for a tutor to go slower or faster depending on how well your child is mastering a topic.

 

I won’t pull for physics yet since she is still coping.

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What Arcadia said.  :)

 

If the pace of the geometry class is too fast then I would probably dump the class and use a self-paced program or hire the tutor and see if they can help her get through that class while you bolster her through the physics class.

 

FWIW, sometimes for some students, and especially for students struggling with comprehension of particularly difficult math concepts for their brain, math really does need to slow down.  Was she good at Algebra?  I ask because sometimes people who are good at Algebra, or at least understand it well, struggle with Geometry (and vice-a-versa).  As Arcadia mentioned, the tutor can speed up, slow down, add in extra materials to help with comprehension, etc.  Especially in math, and in an area of struggle, I would definitely look at the tutor as a viable and possibly a really positive option, depending on affordability and the quality of the tutor.

 

And FWIW, with on-line classes in subjects that are harder for me or I find really boring I'm honestly done after 45 minutes, too.  90 minutes in a subject I am really struggling to understand is just too long.  I can make it but it is HARD, especially in an on-line class, since I don't have the stimulation of being in a physical class with physical students/teacher to keep me focused/have discussions with.  At the end of that 90 minutes I have nothing left for outside class work for several hours, preferrably until the next day.  I don't consider myself lazy at all.  I just know what my brain is capable of and I make sure to build in breaks and I try not to take 90 minute once a week on-line classes in topics that are hard for me or I tend to find boring.  When it can't be helped, it can be really hard to slog through.  

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That's a tough one and I don't think there are any easy answers. But I'm sure ideas/suggestions help to at least consider your options. Our son went through WHA Geometry and it was challenging. Though math is one of his strengths, so he enjoyed it. However for our next dd, I'm not sure I'll have her attend WHA for Geometry because math is really one of here weaker subject areas.

 

A lot depends on where she's come from, her strengths, abilities and endurance. WHA is normally academically rigorous similar to WTMA and others like it. So if the student went from relatively easier work before, it can be a big wake up call. As parents, we want to train our kids to do hard things which normally does not come naturally to them. For some that is harder than others even in the same family. This kind of rigor can take building up to like AoPS and other more demanding programs. And sometimes the jump up in challenge may be too great for them to handle. It sounds like she is hitting a wall currently. The question is would it be worth attempting to push through or is it time for something to give in some way? You're the only one who can make that call knowing your daughter as well as you do.

 

I agree with others in sticking it out with Physics especially if she is holding her own. Geometry is actually easier to teach with a lot of online resources or other programs. Maybe that is where you start next in exploring those options. Do you still want lessons taught by someone else? It sounds like an asynchronous program would be best because it would allow her to move at her own pace. Possibly something like Mr.D's asynchronous Geometry (Option 3) could work. Of course there are many other options including computerized programs. But you don't have to go it alone if you are not prepared for that.

 

Edited by dereksurfs
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90 minutes is a long time to stay engaged in an online class.  Is she 13?  Even an in-class geometry or physics class that lasted 90 minutes would be long for many 13 year olds.  How often does the class meet?  How much time is she spending on work outside the online component?

 

I would suggest trying to rearrange her overall schedule so that she has down time before and after the 90 minute online portion.  Would she function better not to do any additional geometry on that day but wait until the next day to do homework?  

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My son found he needed to skip the next day after a 90 min online class.

For example, Mon. is Writing, so he waits until Wed before he works on writing again.

Tues is Latin, so no Latin work on Wed., and Wed is Logic, no Logic work on Thurs.

 

That's the only way he stays sane.

 

But I agree with the others. Changing to a self-paced, with or without a tutor, is likely the best choice.

 

My son uses Tabletclass and Mr. Zimmerman is available by phone or email and he offers a tutoring service.

 

I hope you find what works.

Edited by historymatters

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I just dropped a class with no hesitation bc it was way too much work for what we signed up for-but, mine is still in 8th and this has no implications on his transcript (because the subject will still get done, etc).

I have bigger issues dropping a DE class because he'd get a W on his transcript.

I just want to say, in sympathy, that this point, in this semester is hard for us. Burn out is setting in something fierce. I booked us to go away Thanksgiving and I will insist on no school work for 2 days.

Edited by madteaparty

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I would ask about stepping down to the regular level of physics. You never know unless you ask. If not, the honors physics class is where I would put my energy since it sounds like she’s still doing okay there. Then, I’d switch to TT or DO for geometry. Frankly, I find that math is something better done at home for us. A short lecture on a dvd each day is more helpful than a long weekly lecture once or twice a week. Both times my son tried to do an outside math class, far more time wound up being taken by lectures than working problems and he really needed to work lots of problems to solidify the material.

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There are YouTube videos that go along with Jurgensen (math text WHA uses). It is a teacher going through the example problems at the beginning of each section. Let me know and I'll find and link them. (They have been linked to before on these boards, so if you are good at using Google search, you can find them.)

 

Jurgensen is challenging. I'm surprised the geo teacher wasn't more helpful with ideas.

 

Like others, I would keep physics (asking to drop down, but keeping honors if the answer was no) and drop the geo class. Either a tutor and videos with the same text or DO/Mr D as a switch. DO's geo program isn't his best, though.

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90 minutes in one class session?   I would find it very difficult to stay focused for that long, even if the Instructor is doing a fabulous job of presenting the material.  Synchronous is IMO easier than an Asynchronous course, but in this case it might be better/easier for the student to be in an Asynchronous course where she can go at her own pace?

 

ETA: Are the classes available online so the students can watch them again, when they are rested and try to   pick up on things they didn't understand the first time? Does the Instructor have other videos and reference material available on the web site?

 

When I took a MOOC course from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, earlier this year, it was Asynchronous, but there were schedules one had to keep up with.  There was a ton of excellent information available (videos, things to read, etc.) and one could refer to it more than once if desired. I found that to be a good learning method for me. Asynchronous, so I could do it when it was convenient for me, but needing to keep up with the requirements of the course, to complete it successfully.  That's easier than what my DD does, totally Asynchronous, which requires more Time Management and Self-Discipline to finish the courses successfully. 

 

 

Edited by Lanny
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Just chiming in about the class length. My 9th grader is a very good student and enjoys school and, in particular, online classes. He has take several online classes beginning in sixth grade. This year, for the first time, he has two classes from a provider that has 90 minute classes vs. the hour or 50 minutes he is used to. He is struggling with the length. Even for my college kids, I tend to advise them not to take the longer length math classes. It is just a lot to process for most kids.

 

I don't know what to advise about dropping the classes but if she is drowning at this point, I would consider it. There is a lot of year left to go and if everyone is already miserable and burned out and behind in other subjects I doubt the situation will improve. While we have not dropped online classes here, we have had years where things did not get done to what my expectations were going in. Geometry was one we struggled with and one ds got through just checking the box with TT and the other with MUS. They aren't pursuing STEM majors and I have yet to see where it has hurt them (other than possibly a couple points on the math ACT). Not everyone needs physics and honors physics is definitely not necessary. I think I missed her grade level but if she is young there is always a chance at taking another run at physics with an older more mature student. You could drop and do physics lite and hit it again later if you felt it necessary.

 

I don't know anything about your dd's goals or aptitude but high school is a long haul and rarely will these decisions about particular classes have lasting impact. The other subjects are important too, as is everyone's sanity.

 

My lazy kid turned it on jr/sr year doing de. I still don't know that I could have done anything differently those earlier high school years. He made up a lot of ground through de and he is doing just fine now.

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My daughter is in WHA Geometry as well. I agree that it is fast paced but She is very motivated. She hates to use the discussion board as well. But discussion board is where you can ask help for homework. If your ds does 45 mins everyday, she should be able to catch up. My Dd loves geometry. She thinks it is fun. Mine attends online on Tuesday and Thursday. Would you like me to PM my contact info? Maybe they can be study buddies? This is till early. If you help her catch up she should be able to pull through this and you can review in summer. Hang in there is my humble opinion.

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We did WHA Geometry and like dereksurfs said, this was for my mathematically-inclined kid. My dd will continue on with Jann in TX's Myhomeschoolmathclass for Geometry. No way can she handle their level of rigor. That said, he is still using WHA for Pre-Calc but it works really well for him.

 

I have dropped classes both last year and this year. This year, because I saw it was a bad fit and my son would be drowning (we dropped early by Sept 1) . We lost a little money, but it wasn't too bad. WHA has a pretty strict refund policy, so keep that in mind.

DON'T feel bad about dropping a class. If it's making you & your child miserable, drop it - find a better alternative. My ds was so happy when we made our change (swapped APUSH for regular USH), and isn't that what it's all about! Don't make school onerous in 9th. Keep it manageable, enjoyable. That's the beauty of homeschooling. You have more freedom and flexibility.

 

 

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Thank you so much for the advice. To answer a few questions, DD is 14 (August). She did very well in algebra (BMS) but has a lot of trouble following lectures - in school as well. She was tested for ADHD but was not diagnosable. This is our first entry into online classes and I just didn't realize the impact they would have on her. 

 

She's not spending the recommended time (1-1.5 hours) per day on each subject. By the time the online class is over, she's spent. She has Physics M/W and Geometry T/Th so every day has a 90-min block. Geometry is designed to have homework every day of the week so, if she goes a day without doing a geometry lesson, she must do two the next. There's really not much more work than she had in school - the pace is similar - but the loss of daily accountability is impacting her. I'm sure much of this is a maturity issue so I've waffled on pulling her. She kept asking me to back off and let her do it, sink or swim but....it's pretty evident she'll sink on her own and it's affecting the entire household. 

 

Does anyone know if there's an option to audit the class so we still have access to the recorded classes till the end of the year? 

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We did WHA Geometry and like dereksurfs said, this was for my mathematically-inclined kid. My dd will continue on with Jann in TX's Myhomeschoolmathclass for Geometry. No way can she handle their level of rigor. That said, he is still using WHA for Pre-Calc but it works really well for him.

 

I have dropped classes both last year and this year. This year, because I saw it was a bad fit and my son would be drowning (we dropped early by Sept 1) . We lost a little money, but it wasn't too bad. WHA has a pretty strict refund policy, so keep that in mind.

DON'T feel bad about dropping a class. If it's making you & your child miserable, drop it - find a better alternative. My ds was so happy when we made our change (swapped APUSH for regular USH), and isn't that what it's all about! Don't make school onerous in 9th. Keep it manageable, enjoyable. That's the beauty of homeschooling. You have more freedom and flexibility.

 

 

What happens long-term if we drop one class and keep the other? Someone mentioned not wanting to have a W on the transcript. I wouldn't have to submit the transcripts to a college, would I? Couldn't I still use the grade of one of the classes on our homeschool transcript without including the paper transcript? 

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What happens long-term if we drop one class and keep the other? Someone mentioned not wanting to have a W on the transcript. I wouldn't have to submit the transcripts to a college, would I? Couldn't I still use the grade of one of the classes on our homeschool transcript without including the paper transcript?

I think all that happens is that you lose your$ (WHA won't refund you) and you have to figure out how to cover the subject if you want the subject covered. The W I mentioned is for the college classes only.

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Jurgensen is challenging. I'm surprised the geo teacher wasn't more helpful with ideas.

 

Like others, I would keep physics (asking to drop down, but keeping honors if the answer was no) and drop the geo class. Either a tutor and videos with the same text or DO/Mr D as a switch. DO's geo program isn't his best, though.

 

The teacher is lovely. I just get the feeling that she wants DD to show some initiative and come to the discussion board. That's just not happening yet. 

 

Can you give me feedback on DO geometry? You mentioned it's not his best. I looked at a couple of the videos and I thought they look good. The book, however, looks wordy (Amazon preview).  

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Does anyone know if there's an option to audit the class so we still have access to the recorded classes till the end of the year? 

 

I think you can continue and just do the course without relation to grades, etc. They issue a grade report at the end, but it's not like it's official or anything you would submit. If you are using them as simply an online provider, you likely would never submit a transcript from them anyway. So her Geometry grade would simply be yours to tally.

 

I would talk with the teacher and ask her if it's OK we continue, but at our own pace as she's so far behind, it's either that or we drop the class. And I've paid for it, so I'd like to continue in a more 'audit' fashion so we can have access to your lectures but do it on our own. If she can't answer that, reach out to the head of administration. They can likely work with you. It's not like you're asking for money back.

 

There's no such thing as a W for an online provider, when you don't submit a transcript. You will have just used WHA Geometry as one of many tools/materials to teach your at-home Geometry course.

 

And math is so important that you don't want to scare her off of math or make her hate it. You'll likely never turn her back, and she'll forever feel insecure and inadequate about it.

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I think all that happens is that you lose your$ (WHA won't refund you) and you have to figure out how to cover the subject if you want the subject covered. The W I mentioned is for the college classes only.

 

I see! Thanks!  I know WH won't refund the money and that's why we're not jumping ship quickly. :-)  That's not a little matter but I've had to remember that it is not worth damaging her health and feelings toward math. 

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I think you can continue and just do the course without relation to grades, etc. They issue a grade report at the end, but it's not like it's official or anything you would submit. If you are using them as simply an online provider, you likely would never submit a transcript from them anyway. So her Geometry grade would simply be yours to tally.

 

I would talk with the teacher and ask her if it's OK we continue, but at our own pace as she's so far behind, it's either that or we drop the class. And I've paid for it, so I'd like to continue in a more 'audit' fashion so we can have access to your lectures but do it on our own. If she can't answer that, reach out to the head of administration. They can likely work with you. It's not like you're asking for money back.

 

There's no such thing as a W for an online provider, when you don't submit a transcript. You will have just used WHA Geometry as one of many tools/materials to teach your at-home Geometry course.

 

And math is so important that you don't want to scare her off of math or make her hate it. You'll likely never turn her back, and she'll forever feel insecure and inadequate about it.

^

I agree!

 

Definitely stay in the Physics class and probably Geo also if there is way to avoid a grade. Contact the school about a "W". I assume they give you a grade report and you certainly do not want a "F" on it.

 

I believe Wilson Hill is pay for the whole year up front so you probably will not save anything by dropping out completely.  You could use the summer to complete the Geo course (maybe get some quizzes and tests from the teacher at the end of the school year).  Setup a pace/schedule for a summer completion and maybe drop a few of the more challenging topics.

========update ====

If you choose to self pace:

from
JURGENSEN 
Textbook: Geometry by Ray C. Jurgensen, Richard G. Brown, and John W. Jurgensen. ISBN 0395977274 (2000 edition).
Note: Problems in this textbook are offered at three difficulty levels: A for easy, B for intermediate and C for challenge.
videos:

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I just want to note that your dd who was 14 just this past August is very young! Many of the kids with parents on this board are way ahead of the curve but most 14 yos would be extremely challenged by those two courses (rigor, length, online format). So I think you could back off and your dd can still do amazing things and excel. In fact, in my state your dd would still be 8th grade.

 

Good luck!

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I just want to note that your dd who was 14 just this past August is very young! Many of the kids with parents on this board are way ahead of the curve but most 14 yos would be extremely challenged by those two courses (rigor, length, online format). So I think you could back off and your dd can still do amazing things and excel. In fact, in my state your dd would still be 8th grade.

 

Good luck!

 

Yes! She is young and not at all a "mature" 14 yo. I considered having her wait a year before starting high school officially but it was a hard sell because she had straight As at school and 2 for-credit classes already. I brought up the subject again last night about us changing things up this year and have her repeat 9th next. She opposes that adamantly. And I don't really know the implications of that long term. She is college bound. 

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Yes! She is young and not at all a "mature" 14 yo. I considered having her wait a year before starting high school officially but it was a hard sell because she had straight As at school and 2 for-credit classes already. I brought up the subject again last night about us changing things up this year and have her repeat 9th next. She opposes that adamantly. And I don't really know the implications of that long term. She is college bound.

Oh I don't think struggling with these two courses indicates needing to repeat the grade at all! There is so much "in between" these rigorous WHA courses and needing to repeat a grade. Just reminding you your dd is young so you don't need to be overly discouraged by her performance or feel like a failure. I would not have her repeat the grade. She will probably be more than ready for graduation by the time it rolls around.

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I think you can continue and just do the course without relation to grades, etc. They issue a grade report at the end, but it's not like it's official or anything you would submit. If you are using them as simply an online provider, you likely would never submit a transcript from them anyway. So her Geometry grade would simply be yours to tally.

 

I would talk with the teacher and ask her if it's OK we continue, but at our own pace as she's so far behind, it's either that or we drop the class. And I've paid for it, so I'd like to continue in a more 'audit' fashion so we can have access to your lectures but do it on our own. If she can't answer that, reach out to the head of administration. They can likely work with you. It's not like you're asking for money back.

 

There's no such thing as a W for an online provider, when you don't submit a transcript. You will have just used WHA Geometry as one of many tools/materials to teach your at-home Geometry course.

 

And math is so important that you don't want to scare her off of math or make her hate it. You'll likely never turn her back, and she'll forever feel insecure and inadequate about it.

 

Mirabillis makes a good point in that you've already paid for the course. And these courses are not cheap. So before completely bailing out of it, I would consider your options first. I know for fact your daughter isn't the first one to struggle with WHA math courses. And yes, some get so far behind they've dropped out. Since they will not refund your money especially this late into the school year, those services are yours.

 

Also, the teachers are very caring from our experiences with them. We've taken vacations and missed assignments. They've also worked with us to get our son back on track through adjusting our schedule for homework/tests, etc... I think they also record the classes which you can listen to at a later time.

 

Knowing all this, there may be a way for you to treat it more like an asynchronous course and go at 'her' pace with a tutor, for example. Then just continue into the Summer after the official class is over. I would ask if they could make all the tests, quizzes and even possibly the lectures available after May/June. That's at least worth considering before switching programs entirely.

Edited by dereksurfs
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The teacher is lovely. I just get the feeling that she wants DD to show some initiative and come to the discussion board. That's just not happening yet. 

 

Can you give me feedback on DO geometry? You mentioned it's not his best. I looked at a couple of the videos and I thought they look good. The book, however, looks wordy (Amazon preview).  

 

Derek Owens is really great. His geometry uses Jacobs 3rd edition Geometry which is more of a discovery-based text. Many people on this board prefer the 2nd edition which is a lot more straight forward. So, DO is awesome, but the text he uses for his geometry isn't a match for quite a few kids. Something to think about with DO is that he doesn't have due dates, so you'll have to be on your daughter to keep up on lessons. She can go at her own pace - which many people like.

 

There are many online providers with different formats & strengths. My oldest needs the accountability of an online provider to keep her on track for certain subjects. My next one has requested to never again take an online class. She gets up & gets her work done pretty consistently by herself. Some do better with live classes & some with the asynchronous (as Lanny discussed, above).

 

FWIW, my DD doesn't like discussion boards or asking for help publicly either. It is good to get into the habit of approaching the teacher for help when you need it. It is a skill that comes in very handy at college - but your DD still has several years before then. 

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If your daughter was in brick and mortar school last year, she might need a lot more hand holding with time and homework management for her online classes. She might be able to cope with the content and the classes with sufficient scaffolding.

 

My oldest is rather independent but I make him do an hour of physics and chemistry daily before he does his math. Else he would forget to do everything else but math. I also have to remind him from time to time to check that all homework are submitted.

Edited by Arcadia

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And agreed, 14 is young. We struggled last year with the lazy bug and work ethic for 9th grade. Now my ds in 10th @ 15 is better on that front - really it's worlds different. Hang in there, and do what will keep your dd smiling and feeling confident!

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Derek Owens is really great. His geometry uses Jacobs 3rd edition Geometry which is more of a discovery-based text. Many people on this board prefer the 2nd edition which is a lot more straight forward. So, DO is awesome, but the text he uses for his geometry isn't a match for quite a few kids. Something to think about with DO is that he doesn't have due dates, so you'll have to be on your daughter to keep up on lessons. She can go at her own pace - which many people like.

 

There are many online providers with different formats & strengths. My oldest needs the accountability of an online provider to keep her on track for certain subjects. My next one has requested to never again take an online class. She gets up & gets her work done pretty consistently by herself. Some do better with live classes & some with the asynchronous (as Lanny discussed, above).

 

FWIW, my DD doesn't like discussion boards or asking for help publicly either. It is good to get into the habit of approaching the teacher for help when you need it. It is a skill that comes in very handy at college - but your DD still has several years before then. 

 

Both of our younger dds are taking Derek Owens courses and like them. However, we will use a different provider for Geometry. There have been many reports of problems with the text and course lectures, etc... not being a good match or out of synch. Since our middle dd struggles with math in general, I do not want to throw unnecessary monkey wrenches into Geometry. We've been working on building her confidence in her math abilities which was in the pits prior to DO. 

 

Right now we're considering a number of other providers such as Jann in TX and Mr.D. After Geometry we'll likely return to DO or possibly WHA if I feel they are ready for that level of rigor as well as the live aspect.

 

Live delivery is obviously what we're working toward as we prepare them for college courses. Learning to take notes, interact with the instructor, ask questions when confused, prepare for quizzes, tests and even interact with other classmates all are important.  We plan to have all our kids take DE courses at our local CC. I think it does take scaffolding to prepare them for that on a number of levels. And yes, each child is different needing more help in certain areas than others.

Edited by dereksurfs
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FWIW, since this is her first foray into on-line classes AND she has just turned 14 AND she just started homeschooling for 9th AND she is taking rigorous classes, it really isn't surprising at all to me that she might be struggling with a high demand on-line math class.  On-line long live once or twice a week classes are VERY different from the already provided structure and accountability of a shorter duration brick and mortar daily class.

 

I found out the hard way that on-line classes for my kiddos did not take anything at all off my plate, especially not our first couple of years.  It actually added a lot more stress and was extremely time consuming.  I needed to be MORE involved, provide significant scaffolding and  structure and work hard daily to help set up really good study habits and skill sets that had NOT been explicitly taught in brick and mortar and I had to do it on another person's time table, using someone else's materials.  I was no longer the one in charge of their learning.  These time management and study skills were not intuitive for my kids,either.  They needed to be explicitly taught how to handle their daily schedule through my systematic support, involvement and instruction.  Also, they had to build up their stamina to be able to sit through long lectures and take on more demanding classes without daily outside accountability.  It has taken time to get to the point of functioning relatively independently and we are still working on several areas.  

 

I think you've had some great suggestions here and hopefully you can find a positive path through for both of you.  I just wanted to share that what you are going through is not unheard of by any means.  It is actually quite common.     Hang in there.  This too shall pass.  

Edited by OneStepAtATime
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My dd happens to be in both of the WHA classes you are referring to this year.  She is older (a sophomore). 

 

Have you spoken with Mrs. Jester and asked if your dd would be better served in the non-honors Physics I and/or what to do since she is struggling?  She would likely give you great advice.  Since Mrs. Smith is teaching all 5 Geometry sections in WHA this year, I do not expect she would have much extra time to focus on your dd. Everything builds on the beginning math foundation that is set; thus, I would be highly inclined to wait and start Geo over rather than to keep on going in the fog, trying to hold my head up above the water!  But you must realize that we took the path to highly cement Geo. in my dd's mind as she had already completed Saxon Alg. I and II, plus 1/2 of Adv. Math.  Technically, then, she had already achieved her Geometry credit and seemed a 'natural' in the subject.  However, upon consultation with the WHA math teacher for Pre-Calc. (Mrs. Stublen), we were advised to have our dd go ahead and take Geo. with the Jurgensen textbook, rather than immediately sprint to Pre-Calc.  And I have noticed that there are way more postulates and such in the Jurgensen text than we ever saw in Saxon, so it seems to be working out fine with gleaning new application for 'old' material already covered.

 

WHA teachers seem very open and available, from what I've seen, to personally chat with you on the best plan for your particular dc.  Email them and schedule a time to talk by phone, if this works for you.

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. . . , it really isn't surprising at all to me that she might be struggling with a high demand on-line math class. 

 

I found out the hard way that on-line classes for my kiddos did not take anything at all off my plate, especially not our first couple of years. 

:iagree: I remember hearing Susan Wise Bauer say in an audio talk (Preparing for High School?) that she wished she would have started with one online class in 8th before it counted for high school. I started eldest with two online classes in 8th. One was a winner & one was ultimately a bust. (I thought one would save me time, but eventually found it didn't. Also, the fast pace meant DD didn't retain what she'd crammed. Without daily review with me, she lost that year of language learning.) We learned from that year, but then ended up with a bad fit writing class in 9th.  :crying:  She dropped that one & I had to beef up the writing at home that year. Also, I realized what a bad fit asynchronous classes are for her and how much on-going review she still needs. Every year has been a learning experience with its bumps and occasional catastrophes (Landry Academy's collapse!).

 

Some kids ramp up quicker & need less scaffolding. Some still need some assistance or follow-up after several years.

 

Also, it might be helpful for your DD to stand & stretch every 15 minutes (while keeping her headphones on) of her online classes.

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My non-math loving daughter did great with WHA geometry last year, but there was a learning curve. First, the discussion boards don't require knowledge. Your student is encouraged to post which problems they are struggling with for others to help with. Some kids are reluctant to do that at first, but it really can be helpful. The text also has an explanation of the ideas in the chapter. I wouldn't give up, but persevere if possible. Try to get in a math lesson daily. Once they get past the humps, they feel so accomplished!

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Another thought-- I was always strong in math--except geometry. I was 13--yurned14 in October, so about your dd's age-- when I took it. I was so lost and cried so much. I was worried when my oldest took geometry that I wouldn't be able to help. Well lo and behold it now makes perfect sense! It could be her brain isn't ready for the logic. Could you switch to Alg 2?

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Unexpectedly, this morning, I signed up for a free 4 week MOOC course.  Asynchronous, but with a schedule to comply with. No live scheduled "Online" time when the group meets, and it is broken into little chunks of time. If I need to, I can watch the videos and read the text as many times as I want to.   As I wrote upthread, I believe something like that would be better for the student in question, before trying a Live, Scheduled, Online class that meets for 90 minutes.  I think it is normal, for anyone, in a class or in a meeting, to lose focus as time goes on.

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Thank you all for your advice. We have come up with a plan!!

 

DD tested Mr. D's Geometry (thank you dereksurfs!!). All I heard from the basement was "Oh, I get it now. Oh! I understand that! Oh! I didn't get that before but now I do!" We have officially learned the importance of matching teaching style and class format to the child. So, we will be dropping WH Geometry and starting over with Mr. D.

 

Physics....I had a long talk with the teacher (Mrs. Jester - she's absolutely wonderful). DD will stay in this class. She's not terribly behind and it's all starting to click, especially after a week of no math stress, she's been able to study and catch up a bit on the science. 

I couldn't believe the relief even I felt not doing the math work this week. The teacher is lovely and the book (Jurgensen is very clear and good). It's just the format of the class buried DD before she knew what had happened. We have learned an expensive but important lesson. 

Thank you all!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with others in sticking it out with Physics especially if she is holding her own. Geometry is actually easier to teach with a lot of online resources or other programs. Maybe that is where you start next in exploring those options. Do you still want lessons taught by someone else? It sounds like an asynchronous program would be best because it would allow her to move at her own pace. Possibly something like Mr.D's asynchronous Geometry (Option 3) could work. Of course there are many other options including computerized programs. But you don't have to go it alone if you are not prepared for that.

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Thank you all for your advice. We have come up with a plan!!

 

DD tested Mr. D's Geometry (thank you dereksurfs!!). All I heard from the basement was "Oh, I get it now. Oh! I understand that! Oh! I didn't get that before but now I do!" We have officially learned the importance of matching teaching style and class format to the child. So, we will be dropping WH Geometry and starting over with Mr. D.

 

Physics....I had a long talk with the teacher (Mrs. Jester - she's absolutely wonderful). DD will stay in this class. She's not terribly behind and it's all starting to click, especially after a week of no math stress, she's been able to study and catch up a bit on the science. 

I couldn't believe the relief even I felt not doing the math work this week. The teacher is lovely and the book (Jurgensen is very clear and good). It's just the format of the class buried DD before she knew what had happened. We have learned an expensive but important lesson. 

 

Thank you all!

 

Awesome! That makes it all worth it since learning is really what this is all about. And the process to get from point A to point B cognitively is different for every child as you've so eloquently stated. This is what the hive community is for when we can all pitch in and help one another out. It makes this homeschool journey more doable and enjoyable. As they say, it takes a village.  :001_smile:

 

Please let us know how Mr. D's Geometry goes for your DD. We're considering it for our DDs as well. Thanks for sharing this good news!   ;)

Edited by dereksurfs
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