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No credit for remedial work, I assume?


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My daughter completed French I and got credit for it according to the transcript from her B&M school.  We were going to have her continue on and do French II this year.  They used the Bien Dit textbooks, which we also have at home.  But she told me that her teacher did not cover the entire first level book - he only covered about half of it.  So I'm feeling like we need to go back and complete the first textbook before moving on to the second.  But this will mean many hours of work that she won't be getting any credit for.  Plus, if we can't get through both books this year, she'll have a year with no language classes on her transcript.  (Right now, her transcript is French I freshman year, Latin I sophomore year, and she wanted to switch back to French II this year.)

 

Any suggestions for how to manage this?

 

 

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Our very highly rated public school never got through more than 1/2 a language textbook.  They would just start up the next year with the next book.  This makes me crazy, but they make it work somehow and gave full credit for each year.  I think partly what they did was spend more time in the "Review" section of the book that covered what they should have gotten to last year (although honestly all levels of language textbooks have a decent amount of review - you always go back to the present tense, you just cover it more quickly each time through).

 

I'm teaching Spanish now at a learning center for homeschoolers, and I think I may end up having to do this.  I'm going to try to get through as much as I can, but because of the experience I've noted above, I'm going to move on next year.

 

If your kid is really interested in a foreign language, you can get through a text much more quickly.  In a group class, you have to make sure everyone is coming along.

 

Maybe start on the next level, and if a topic is moving too fast because it's the first time she's seen it, go back and do extra work in the section from the previous book?  The school teachers assign a ton of extra work besides the text, which is one reason they move more slowly.

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I only have experience with German and Chinese high school curriculum and there is lots of spiral review (grammar and vocabulary) build in. If your daughter really likes French, it is possible to complete 1.5 textbooks in a year especially when there are no classmates to wait for and she can go at her own pace.

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When I took French in high school, it took us 1.5 years to do the first grammar book and 1.5 years to do the second and then we spent a year reviewing and using French. These were the honors sections. 

 

I wouldn't blink about giving credit for French 1, picking up where you are, and giving credit for French 2.

 

The authors of my hs French textbook were Valette and Valette in case you want to look it up.

Edited by chiguirre
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I would suggest doing a year of French at whatever level is appropriate and calling it French II.

 

You can start with the French II book and circle back as needed, or you could start where you left off in the French I book, but then skim through the review material in the French II book.

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We are having the same issue for my 9th grade ds this year, using Avancemos, the Spanish text by the same publisher.  One thing I learned from the TE was that the last 2 units/chapters of Level 1 are fully covered in Level 2.  The other units have spiraling as well.  I understand that the French books have a similar format.

 

So we spent 10 weeks completing Level 1, and now are in the Level 2 book.  I plan to complete 3/4 of the Level 2 book, and credit this whole year as Spanish 3-4.  

 

The expectation at my dd's public school (she had the same course in B&M middle) is that students will eventually pick it up.  Not sure if they do, or just drop foreign lang.  Having her tutor ds for about 1 hour a week has helped her Spanish 7-8 grade immensely.

 

So check between the book levels for Bien Dit! for significant review and spiraling.  You might not be as far behind as you think.

Edited by Trabug
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When I took French in high school, it took us 1.5 years to do the first grammar book and 1.5 years to do the second and then we spent a year reviewing and using French. These were the honors sections. 

 

I wouldn't blink about giving credit for French 1, picking up where you are, and giving credit for French 2.

 

The authors of my hs French textbook were Valette and Valette in case you want to look it up.

 

I agree

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Do you know if the B&M school uses the same book for French I and French II?  Each book and course will be different, but I have often seen a language book be used for two semesters in college or two years in high school.  I would not consider completing the book as "remedial" work.  You could always supplement the second half of the book with some additional materials if you thought that it was too light for a complete French II course on its own.

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I don't think it is remedial as it's not like your daughter failed the french course at the b&m and is now retaking it.  

 

To know whether the book should have been completed for french 1, or whether it covers some things that can be considered french 2, you'd have to look at the scope and sequence of different curricula/textbooks and high school classes.

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Do you know if the B&M school uses the same book for French I and French II?  Each book and course will be different, but I have often seen a language book be used for two semesters in college or two years in high school.  I would not consider completing the book as "remedial" work.  You could always supplement the second half of the book with some additional materials if you thought that it was too light for a complete French II course on its own.

 

The B&M school used Bien Dit 1 for French I, and was going to use Bien Dit 2 for French II.  

 

Thank you everyone for the replies - they are very helpful!

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One thing I did with my son's transcript was give him two credits for intermediate level of language, Intermediate level A and B. This was Japanese, however, and he was mostly self-studying. He put in the hours and I wanted to award that, but I didn't want it to appear he was at the level of a 3rd year Japanese student. 

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Based on your feedback, we've decided to try to move ahead with the level 2 book, and return to the level 1 book if needed for more in depth review of any particular topics.  This program combined with a weekly tutor for pronunciation and conversation practice should cover things well!  

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One thing I did with my son's transcript was give him two credits for intermediate level of language, Intermediate level A and B. This was Japanese, however, and he was mostly self-studying. He put in the hours and I wanted to award that, but I didn't want it to appear he was at the level of a 3rd year Japanese student. 

 

My daughter has been teaching herself Japanese, too!  What materials did you son like to use?

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I believe it would be quite unusual, for a class in a brick and mortar school to get through the entire textbook. DD does that with her TTUISD courses, but I don't really think that's possible, in a B&M classroom, using the same textbooks. Not enough time...

 

Good luck with a solution to the Foreign Language issue!

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My son's Spanish class did that last year--only half the book. I was uspet and talked with DH about it, and he said, "Well...that's how it's done, right? When I was in high school, 1/2 the book was a full year." And DH went to a pricy private school with high standards. I don't remember for myself about my French class.

 

But what I'm hearing in this thread and from DH and from my son's Spanish teacher last year, is that Spanish/French I is often only 1/2 the book. My son is working on the 2nd half the book now in his Spanish II class and I am ok with that. It seems to be the norm.

Edited by Garga
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My dc's Spanish 1 class made it through 6 out of 8 chapters. I asked about how that would be handled in the Spanish 2 honors class they were invited to. I was told they would stretch out the preliminary review section some to make sure everybody was up to speed. Then the Spanish 2 book is covered over two years and then the third level book. So, I think you are good.

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Well, this thread is certainly making me feel so much better about my kid's online foreign language class given they have only covered 2 out of 12 chapters so far. 😋 I was so worried until now. I always thought schools were getting through 100% of the material. Ha. I see the other foreign language course taught by me in a whole new light now. Apparently I have been the unreasonable monster for all of those years. 😳

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Well, this thread is certainly making me feel so much better about my kid's online foreign language class given they have only covered 2 out of 12 chapters so far. 😋 I was so worried until now. I always thought schools were getting through 100% of the material. Ha. I see the other foreign language course taught by me in a whole new light now. Apparently I have been the unreasonable monster for all of those years. 😳

Not just you!

 

But, I also know that if my kids had only covered 1/2 a book and hadn't done anything in a yr that they would probably remember next to nothing and would only be slightly beyond the very beginning. Foreign language seems to fall out their heads without repetition and practice.

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Well this certainly makes me appreciate Lukeion!

 

I don't remember language classes being this bad when I was in PS (I'm pretty sure we completed all, or almost all, of the text), but that was a very long time ago. I took French 1 & 2 in HS, and started with 3rd semester French in college, despite having not taken it in 12th grade. It was a little intense, but not impossible.

 

So do most students start over, or at least back up a few levels, when they get to college?

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Well this certainly makes me appreciate Lukeion!

 

I don't remember language classes being this bad when I was in PS (I'm pretty sure we completed all, or almost all, of the text), but that was a very long time ago. I took French 1 & 2 in HS, and started with 3rd semester French in college, despite having not taken it in 12th grade. It was a little intense, but not impossible.

 

So do most students start over, or at least back up a few levels, when they get to college?

 

I suspect a big factor is if kids are approaching language as a box to check off or actually wanting to be conversant.  Some majors (engineering, for example) have no foreign language requirement.  Starting back at 101 and cranking out however many semesters is required is an approach for kids who are just checking off a box.   If they want to be conversant, they can actually attain a fairly high level in a single yr.  I am really impressed by my type B 10th grader who decided she wanted to learn German.  She is really putting in a lot of effort and making pretty amazing progress. (She is usually so laid back about everything that her intensity with German is just so type A-ish. ;) ) Conversely, her brother just didn't care and getting through just enough for 2 yrs' worth of credit so he could move on was good enough for him. 

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Well, this thread is certainly making me feel so much better about my kid's online foreign language class given they have only covered 2 out of 12 chapters so far. 😋 I was so worried until now. I always thought schools were getting through 100% of the material. Ha. I see the other foreign language course taught by me in a whole new light now. Apparently I have been the unreasonable monster for all of those years. 😳

 

 

I think it is not uncommon in a class for a book to be part of the learning experience but not the entirety of the experience. If there is a lot of time spent on conversation in class, for example, or discussion of cultural experiences, or watching videos in the language, etc, the progress through the book may be slow, but time spent learning the language is likely (hopefully!) adequate for awarding a high school credit.

 

Neither of my kids had standard textbooks for their language learning, but used a variety of materials. Both went on to study the language successfully in college (and typically a placement test is used at the university level anyway, even when one has completed several years in high school.)

 

I do agree with 8fill that consistent study is important, regardless of books completed.

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Well this certainly makes me appreciate Lukeion!

 

I don't remember language classes being this bad when I was in PS (I'm pretty sure we completed all, or almost all, of the text), but that was a very long time ago. I took French 1 & 2 in HS, and started with 3rd semester French in college, despite having not taken it in 12th grade. It was a little intense, but not impossible.

 

So do most students start over, or at least back up a few levels, when they get to college?

 

Yes.  And even if a student has completed two full high school level texts, he may still not be ready for 3rd semester in college, since the first two years of high school foreign language classes typically do not cover as much vocabulary or focus as much on listening and reading as the college courses do.   

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Yes. And even if a student has completed two full high school level texts, he may still not be ready for 3rd semester in college, since the first two years of high school foreign language classes typically do not cover as much vocabulary or focus as much on listening and reading as the college courses do.

I will say that I am really puzzled. I don't disagree with you that high school foreign language instruction isn't weak. What always surprises me is how those high schools manage to teach enough of a foreign language in 4 years to track people into AP course, which in my opinion is tough given the essay writing requirement. I have inquired about AP French scores at our local high and 4 is a class normal, with enough kids pulling off 5. Those aren't native speakers. So I ask myself how they manage that because from my perspective college French 2 B (local CC) isn't harder than an AP class at all.

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I will say that I am really puzzled. I don't disagree with you that high school foreign language instruction isn't weak. What always surprises me is how those high schools manage to teach enough of a foreign language in 4 years to track people into AP course, which in my opinion is tough given the essay writing requirement. I have inquired about AP French scores at our local high and 4 is a class normal, with enough kids pulling off 5. Those aren't native speakers. So I ask myself how they manage that because from my perspective college French 2 B (local CC) isn't harder than an AP class at all.

 

You'd be surprised at how weak their French actually is.  Dd is surrounded by kids who placed into higher levels of French via AP and she is shocked by how limited their vocabulary is (and poor conversational skills). 

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You'd be surprised at how weak their French actually is. Dd is surrounded by kids who placed into higher levels of French via AP and she is shocked by how limited their vocabulary is (and poor conversational skills).

Would you say that the exam is easy? It seems to me a rather difficult exam given the writing section. Nothing adds up in my head.

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When I was in high school, we used one textbook the whole time I was there, and I took Spanish 1- IV, IV being mostly a conversation class.  I placed into Spanish 3 in college, so that sounds about right.  I ended up double-majoring in Spanish because I spent a year abroad in Spain, and I had no problem adjusting to language classes in Spain after just the one college class.  Maybe I took 2.  I can't quite remember but I'm thinking it was just the one.  Once I was in Spain, all of my classes at the university were taught in Spanish.

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