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physics...what options do I have??


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My daughter is struggling with Physics.  I think she either needs a real life teacher or an online class....but being that it is the end of October...are there any online classes that would help her catch up so she can participate in the class?  Or what other options do we have?  I don't want to enroll her in school...that would be a disaster on many levels...I know I could hire a tutor...but for a whole year, that can really add up cost wise quickly. 

 

We have tried Conceptual Physics using Conceptual acedemy, guesthollow physics and the free Georgia Broadcasting program....she is just not getting it.  Math is a HUGE factor...she is currently taking Algebra 2, but math is not her strong suit.  She is using Mr D and it's working well.  Is there a physics like Mr D math?

 

I can't teach her...I know nothing about physics..so I know I need to source it out. 

 

Please help me sort out options we have. 

 

thanks.

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:grouphug: 

 

Was there a lot of higher level math in the Conceptual Physics program thru Conceptual Academy?  

 

What are her goals once she graduates High School?  Is she a senior or a Junior or...?  If she is not a Senior could you maybe shift to another science for this year while she solidifies her math skills?

 

FWIW, most physics courses at the High School level that are offered on-line only meet once or twice a week.  The bulk of the work will have to be done by the student at home, independently.  Frequently the on-line classes move quickly because there is a lot of material to cover in a short amount of time.  I am uncertain if there is an on-line High School physics course that could scaffold her and teach her in a way she could succeed.  And you are right, nearly all live courses have already started.

 

If you don't mind a Catholic based academic program there are the Homeschool Connections self-paced recorded courses.  You can sign up for teacher support but the student can go at their own pace (as long as they complete it within a year of signing up).  A $30 monthly fee gives your student access to all of their High School recorded courses.  An additional fee gives you support from a live teacher.  

 

https://homeschoolconnectionsonline.com/unlimited-access-1

 

But honestly if she is really struggling I don't think this is going to be a good option.  A one on one live tutor might work a lot better.  Do you have access to Wyzant in your area?  You might find some good tutors either locally or through Skype that could be affordable.  

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I looked at derek owens...if I am looking at it right, this program will cost us $58 a month?  If it takes her through May, that will be $400....am I missing something?  that seems like a lot of money for a recorded class.  Is it really worth it?  I have spent/wasted lots of money already...and I need to be certain that this isn't another bust.  

 

So what makes this program worth $58 a month?

 

thanks.

 

Oh, I am not against the catholic one either...but OneStepAtATime said it might not be a good option...but I wanted to say that we aren't against Catholic Classes.

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I personally suspect that it is not the math. It is most likely that she is not grasping the concepts. The math applications themselves are pretty basic mathematical manipulations at this level (especially for a student already taking alg 2.) But, if she doesn't understand how to apply the formulas (where I suspect the problem is) that may come across as not handling the math.

 

We have been using GPB to supplement our main program when we don't have a firm grasp on concepts. I don't see GPB's program as having difficult math applications at all. The problems are knowing which formulas to use, knowing what the formulas represent in the given scenario, and knowing how to input the correct info into the formulas. That math itself is quite simple.

 

ETA: does she have an actual textbook? Maybe she needs to read the explanations as well as listen to them.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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she is currently taking algebra 2...she hasn't completed it.  The problem is that she needs to have someone she can ask questions of and get a response quickly....that is one thing we like about Mr D math...she can email Mr D and he will answer her questions.  There is also an option to skype twice a week with a teacher to ask questions (although she hasn't needed that yet, it's nice to know it's an option for us.)  I think this is the kind of thing we need...but for physics instead.

 

ETA: she is not going to be a science/math college student.  She wants to teach preschoolers.  But Physics is required for college entrance to the college she has chosen. 

Edited by NEprairiemom
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she is currently taking algebra 2...she hasn't completed it.  The problem is that she needs to have someone she can ask questions of and get a response quickly....that is one thing we like about Mr D math...she can email Mr D and he will answer her questions.  There is also an option to skype twice a week with a teacher to ask questions (although she hasn't needed that yet, it's nice to know it's an option for us.)  I think this is the kind of thing we need...but for physics instead.

Then Homeschool Connections or Derek Owens might work out.  I was saying that HC might not work because it sounds like it probably isn't just the math that is the issue.  That is why I was saying a one on one in person tutor might work better but yes, that will cost more than the $58 a month you were concerned about for Derek Owens.  I don't know about Derek Owens but with HC you can cancel any time so you could try it and if it wasn't working you could cancel immediately.

 

Is all science challenging for her?  Or just Physics?  And again, what grade is she in?

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Our local library gives us access to free online tutoring. I tried it out to see, and they help with physics using a virtual whiteboard. Do you have anything like this you can use?

 

I have to give another vote to Georgia Public Broadcasting's Physics Fundamentals. You can pay $20 to get homework, quizzes, a pacing guide, and answers. They model a lot of problem solving and they have note-taking guides to help the student figure out what it important from the lectures. It wouldn't hurt to have her watch a video and see if the teaching connects with her. 

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Does she have any other areas of struggle?  Possible learning challenges such as low working memory/low processing speed?

 

It does sound like Derek Owens might be a good fit.  More so perhaps than Homeschool Connections.  I don't think there is anything that is going to be a great fit for her, though, except perhaps one on one tutoring and with a slower pace.  Since that seems off the table I would consider trying Derek Owens.  It sounds like it isn't just math but concepts that are causing her to struggle.  Perhaps DO can help her get on more solid footing.  Did she ever take a Physical Science course in a lower grade?  If so, how well did she do?

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she is a junior this year.  She struggles with most science...Biology was not the best...we started with Apologia...and about January we gave up on it and she finished using Biology 101 DVD's.  It wasn't the best and I am not happy with the amount of stuff I think she learned...Chemistry, we used Friendly Chemistry and for the most part it was great until the end...then we hired a tutor for the last 6 chapters.  She ended well.   So here we are now...with Physics. Does that explain a bit more??

 

math has been a struggle too..but that is another whole long saga....

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In reading back through your original post, it appears that you have tried 3 different Physics options.  Is that just since August or September?  Are you sitting with her and working with her through everything?  I ask because if you are unable to sit with her and are hoping to find something she can do mostly independently, since science is an area of real struggle for her that seems unrealistic.

 

And I do believe others are correct, this must be beyond just math since I skimmed through Conceptual Physics and it is not really higher level math based.  It incorporates Algebra I but not beyond that as far as I can tell.  Also, the textbook is concept based, not math based, in the way it explains things.  It is actually a very friendly program and provides a lot of videos and instructional support and is self-paced.  Were you sitting with her and helping her work through everything?  It can take a bit of time to get used to how they have the program structured.  There are a lot of very helpful layers but it can take time to get used to locating and navigating all those layers.  Anyway, since this program is actually very friendly to those who are not as strong in math I would definitely consider that a sign that it is not just math that is the issue.  In other words, if she struggled with Conceptual Physics through Conceptual Academy then either her math skills are much weaker than she/you may be aware or her ability to understand science concepts may be extremely weak or both.  Probably both.  She may need a lot more scaffolding, as well as supplemental material at a more basic level such as more basic documentaries, and a much slower pace, to have any chance of real success in this area.

 

Derek Owens might help since DO can answer questions and it is self-paced but she will probably need you or someone sitting with her and helping her break everything down on a daily basis and possibly adding in supplemental material to help her understand.

 

Although this probably won't be a popular idea, I thought I would also ask the following:  Since she is a Junior, not a senior, might it help to step back from High School level Physics for this year and do something like a Physical Science program first?  Then do Physics next year?

 

and  :grouphug:  to you both.  I know this process can be very frustrating and very expensive.

Edited by OneStepAtATime
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I agree with OneStepAtATime

 

Neither GPB nor Conceptual Physics should have been beyond algebra 1 in the math. If you aren't willing or able to spend money, you need to spend time, not panic and switch and refuse to help because "science is just beyond me." (This is exactly the wrong attitude towards science to be modeling for your chlid.)

 

Here are a couple more random free/cheap websites:

 

ck-12.org - a textbook

physicsclassroom.com - lots of lessons and labs

aplusphysics.com - the books are cheap and the videos are free on youtube

 

Use these as alternative explanations and just stick with something. Spend this weekend learning physics with GPB and supplements until YOU understand it, then start teaching your child, and find the time to continue working ahead of her.

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I would sit down with her and watch the GPB videos and talk through them. I would start back at the very beginning. They are pretty basic. If a student is drawing the graphs, creating the charts, taking notes, etc., they should be able to master the concepts. If you are watching them with her, you might be able to pinpoint what the actual problem is.

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I have a hard time imagining it is actually the math. For a conceptual course, you only need prealgbera and some very basic algebra 1.

Unless she never mastered prealgebra and algebra 1 (in which case she should not have been promoted to  algebra 2)

 

Have you sat down with her while she works and tried to pinpoint where exactly she is having problems? How hands on are you with her physics?

What exactly were her issues with biology?

Edited by regentrude
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It sounds like you are at the point where you just have to bite the bullet and either do physics with her or pay for someone else to do it with her. She cannot do physics on her own. No matter what videos you set in front of her, no matter how basic a text you find, no matter how much effort and time she puts into it on her own, ....  physics is a stretch. I know I never could have done it on my own. Not only is it flat out hard for me to understand, but I also have almost zero personal interest in it. It sounds like she's in a similar spot.

 

Since she cannot do it on her own, someone needs to do it with her or at the very least be available to talk it through with her. I would not throw more money at different curricula, different texts, different videos, etc. I would put the money into getting an actual person to help her.

 

The most economical option would be for you to sit with her, watch the physics videos, read the physics text, do the physics problems, take notes, and work through it with her.

 

The other option is to "pay" for outside help.... cash, barter to do something for someone who could help, something.

 

Do you know anyone at all who likes physics and might be willing to volunteer to help her? (I volunteer to help a couple friends a couple hours a day with subjects I am good at and that I enjoy teaching. I bet there are others out there who would love to do the same. Maybe an older, retired person at church? Maybe someone who used to be some sort of engineer or a former high school teacher?)

 

Can you barter with another family to babysit their kids or help with housework or ?? in exchange for them helping your daughter with physics?  Maybe another homeschooling family with a child doing physics would be willing to include her with their child in studying physics?

 

At $58/month, Derek Owens is probably the lowest cost, highest level of support you'll be able to find out there. Maybe there's some way to free up her schedule so she could focus on getting physics done in five months instead of ten, which would halve the cost? Maybe she has one class she could drop this semester in order to work double time on physics and then pick up the dropped subject and work on that double time next semester when she's done w/ physics?

 

Could she take physics at a community college? Some people give their home schooled student a full year's credit for only one semester of a community college class. A one semester CC class might be more economical than five months of Derek Owens?

 

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The problem is that she needs to have someone she can ask questions of and get a response quickly....that is one thing we like about Mr D math...she can email Mr D and he will answer her questions.

What your daughter needs is fast response to her questions for maths and science regardless of curriculum. I would look at the library first for free homework help, and then at Derek Owens or another affordable online physics tutor if your library does not have the free homework help service.

 

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I agree with this.  Sometimes DD is overwhelmed by a "chapter of something" that seems intimidating at first, but once I sit with her and break it down section by section, she handles it fine.  This was an issue in 8th and 9th grade, when she would occasionally look at a whole science chapter and be intimidated, but once she learned to break down the work into say, one section a night and *really* delve into it and learn it, now she can do it without my guidance.  Maybe sitting with her and learning the first few chapters of physics yourself, and modeling how to learn it, is what she needs.

I have a hard time imagining it is actually the math. For a conceptual course, you only need prealgbera and some very basic algebra 1.

Unless she never mastered prealgebra and algebra 1 (in which case she should not have been promoted to  algebra 2)

 

Have you sat down with her while she works and tried to pinpoint where exactly she is having problems? How hands on are you with her physics?

What exactly were her issues with biology?

 

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Derek Owens is available via email to answer questions. However, I don't know that you should switch to try that because I think the math in DO is *harder* than what she's probably encountered in the other physics books/videos that she's already tried. DO physics is very math-based, moreso than the conceptual physics programs out there.

 

I do agree with everyone else that *you* sit down with her & struggle through it or you find a tutor who can sit with her and help her through it.

 

DD#1 did Derek Owens physics. She's a mathy girl. She struggled with the lack of built-in review in DO.

 

I am teaching conceptual physics to my dd#2. Even the very little math in conceptual physics books makes her brain tired. After she works through problems, we go back through them to talk through & fix them. Then, we do another set of the same type of problem. We also do a lab that shows the concept and then works through the math behind it. It isn't hugely rigorous, but for an artist/writer-type, it'll do for now. (She can always take another physics later if she wants or needs to.)

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I would do another science this year and do physics next year. Get this elementary physics book and do it this year in conjunction with another science.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Real-Science-4-Kids-Physics-Level-Student/dp/0974914940/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1509087071&sr=8-2&keywords=Real+science+for+kids+physics

 

it is really simple to understand but she uses the proper scientific terms unlike a lot of other elementary science.

 

Conceptional Physics is much easier than regular physics, and a lot less math. Many students do Conceptional Physics in middle school, if that was too hard you need to shore up the basics and try again next year.

Edited by ElizabethB
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After some thought and discussion with a friend who knows my daughter,  I have decided to stop physics this year.  And next fall, get her enrolled in one of the online classes offered.  I will look at the book posted in the previous post as a pre-phyiscs thing for her to do.   Thanks for helping me sort this out.   

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My DD is in 9th this year.  She hates math and struggles with it; however, she is doing Mr. D for Algebra (repeating Algebra, CLE, from last year to solidify) and is also doing well with it.

 

DD also hated science until last year.  We chose to do Physical Science using GCP The Joy of Science paired with it's recommended text, The Sciences an Integrated Approach, 7th Ed.  I supplemented with copious amounts of YouTube videos, scientific articles, and DD had to outline each chapter in her science notebook.  DD has loved this study and actually GETS IT!  She has aced every online quiz for every chapter.  Now this kid who hated science, loves it--especially Physics and Chemistry.  She has chosen now to take Physics next year.  I'm looking at Novare General Physics for that.

 

Just this week, however, I just found out they have discontinued the free vocabulary/quiz website.  Therefore, I will now need to build vocabulary on Quizlet and make up our chapter quizzes.  That's okay though, because I will take the time to do that to continue her positive experience.

 

This course is comprised of 60 lectures and covers the very basics of: Chemistry, Physics, Earth Science & Biology (including four lectures on Evolution) Keep in mind that we spread this course out over a two-year period (8th-9th) and I will give her a credit in Conceptual Integrated Science at the end of this year.  However, you could do it in one year if you do two (at the minimum) lectures a week, or three during some weeks (since you are starting late).  I have already paired the lectures with the chapter sections, so I could help you with that if you choose to go this route.

 

During last year's portion of this study, I carved out the Evolution lectures and paired them with our separate Intelligent Design class using the text, Discovering ID.  This way, DD got a full year of analyzing the merits/faults of both theories.  I supplemented this class with all sorts of peer-reviewed articles from both sides (yes, there are peer-reviewed articles for ID).

 

Potential downsides:

  • There is no help with this course.  If you can't help her with the concepts, you will need to find a tutor.
  • Cost of Great Courses Plus subscription is $180/yr; you could pay monthly. I don't remember how much the monthly fee is
  • The text is available at Amazon for about $20 used.
  • You will have to invest some time to gather supplemental material for her (I could help with that).

 

I can't love GCP enough for this course.  It gave my DD a love of science, and she finally gets the big picture of science, as well as the intricate details and concepts.

 

 

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My DD is in 9th this year.  She hates math and struggles with it; however, she is doing Mr. D for Algebra (repeating Algebra, CLE, from last year to solidify) and is also doing well with it.

 

DD also hated science until last year.  We chose to do Physical Science using GCP The Joy of Science paired with it's recommended text, The Sciences an Integrated Approach, 7th Ed.

  •  
  • Cost of Great Courses Plus subscription is $180/yr; you could pay monthly. I don't remember how much the monthly fee is

 

Or you can buy the course on DVD used for $26 on amazon.

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We are enjoying "Physics in Your Life" from GCP as a pre-physics class. It helps get a big picture of physics and it's every day applications. He uses lots of visuals for mini lab demonstrations that help cement the concepts. I personally should watch it 2-3 times to get it to sink in.

 

We started with a free 30-day subscription and found this by accident.

 

Laura

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We chose to do Physical Science using GCP The Joy of Science paired with it's recommended text, The Sciences an Integrated Approach, 7th Ed.

Someone loaded the first 21 lectures on YouTube so OP or anyone else can watch a few lectures before buying a used copy or do an ILL (inter library loan) for the DVDs.

 

There are some great courses dvds my kids run away from. Luckily we use library copies as they have an extensive collection.

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This year ds is taking online Physics thru Clover Creek.  He has a daily message with detail items for him to complete each day.   The class includes problem sets and an answer key.   If you are looking for an online physics class for next year take a look at   http://www.clovercreekscience.com/ 

 

You could email the instructor to discuss your current challenges and get her input for next year.

 

 

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